BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:39 AM

If Jim has stated it on numerous threads, I assume you have the references to hand. I have not known Jim to single out Israel as "the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes" (your quote, your capitals). If I'd ever read Jim saying that in a post, I would have immediately waded in to disagree. It seems clear to me that you are unable to support your statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:51 AM

Stev,

Here is the first I find- now go look and see about the others.


"Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 01:25 PM

"The problem is that unless you are boycotting.... "
Once again - they're all doing it so why can't Israel be left aloone to do it
****************************************************************************************
No other stat is systematically ethnically cleansing entire cultural groups to make an apartheid-like state - as did South Africa.
****************************************************************************************
"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:53 AM

Since many here single out Israel as the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes

I'm not aware of one single person here who has done this.

There is ONE person: BullshitBruce himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:55 AM

GergF,

You should be able to find the duct tape you need to continue molesting small rodents.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:57 AM

This what you said:

Since many here single out Israel as the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes...

You did not specify the crimes in question and squirming around to narrow your definition after you've been challenged is patently dishonest. Incidentally, "Jim" is not "many here". Now, as with the other thread, I'm moving on from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:12 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:23 AM

Since many here single out Israel as the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes

I'm not aware of one single person here who has done this.


" Incidentally, "Jim" is not "many here""


I provided you with "one single person here", AS YOU ADMIT.


You want more, go read the threads yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:40 AM

"No other state is systematically ethnically cleansing entire cultural groups to make an apartheid-like state - as did South Africa."
Perhaps you can point out one state which is ghettoising any ethnic group by the use of chemical weapons and forcibly shifting them onto toxic rubbish dumps in the way Israel is Bedouin, in order to create a single culture State - I can't.?
Now that's what I call 'ethnic cleansing in order to create an Apartheid state - what do you call it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:59 AM

Jim,

Check the LAWS in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iran in regards to Jews and Ba"hai.


Then look at the LAWS in Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:07 AM

You might add - no other State I can think of is evicting ethnic groups from legally occupied territory in order to create single- religion communities - can you name one?
Religious extremism such as yours is evil and is dangerous, whatever form it comes in - when it is State inspired by a nation that possesses nuclear capability it puts us all at risk
I've become fed up with people like you who blame the Jews for state terrorist behaviour - it is you who are the anti-Semites.
Attempting to block discussion by saying "your only picking on Israel because you are an anti-Semite", is scooping the bottom of the racist barrel.
It is equivalent to saying black, Asian, Latin-American criminals cannot be prosecuted because of their ethnic origins.
Your turn
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:37 AM

"no other State I can think of is evicting ethnic groups from legally occupied territory in order to create single- religion communities - can you name one?"

AS I HAVE SAID,

Look at the Arab nations in the region. LOOK at their LAWS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:52 AM

Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:58 AM

I've seen it all now. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 11:06 AM

AS I HAVE SAID
Show one State other than Israel who is actively evicting entire nations in order to create a single/race religion state - stop waffling name names
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 11:10 AM

Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967.

Do tell. Unbelievable, even for you, BooBad.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 11:14 AM

Iran
Egypt
Jordan- ( by law since creation as Arab Moslim Palestinian Homeland )
Pakistan & India when separated
Sudan
Eritrea
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Yeman

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:05 PM

All evicting other races and cultures - wonder where all those relatives of friends I know working in Saudi - or those planning to move there later this year, or all the ex-pats we met on our trip to Egypt, or the Christians living in Libya, or Yemen.....
I have not herd of ghettoisation or eviction at the point of water cannon or chemical sprays, in order to create Muslim settlements - do tell.
Anybody living in any country other than their own is subject to the laws and expected to respect cultures of wherever they settle - what is happening in Israel is forcible eviction of tribes and cultures who have occupied territory for centuries, sometimes millennia, i order to create a Jewish State.
This has got down to the highly evocative situation of creating racially divided public transport.
Go read The Equality report.
Palestine has now been subject to a - what - eight year blockade of essential goods in an attempt to bring it to heel.
Israel has been the subject of over one hundred condemnatory motions at the U.N. - all vetoed by the U.S.
Israel has been found to commit enormous human rights atrocities, and has yet to be brought to justice because of the support of America and her allies/poodles.
Give us a break - even little Booboo (with his clumsy plundering of extremist racist sites) can do better than this.
All the countries you have named are allies and valued trading parteners of the U.S. and Britain - you want to do something about it, ask your Govenment to intervene
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:28 PM

"All the countries you have named are allies and valued trading parteners of the U.S. and Britain - you want to do something about it, ask your Govenment to intervene"

What, you mean like Israel is????



Oh, that's right- you have a different set of rules for a Jewish State than a Muslim one.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:32 PM

Israel has been the subject of over one hundred condemnatory motions at the U.N. - all vetoed by the U.S.

Did any decent government support any of those motions, or just a lot of places with far worse human rights?

Israel has been found to commit enormous human rights atrocities,

By who?
Any liberal democracies or just a lot of places with far worse human rights?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:33 PM

"Oh, that's right- you have a different set of rules for a Jewish State than a Muslim one."
What - don't follow that one at all??
Our Governments trade with any terrorist state - including Israel.
If they had a conscience they would use trade as a lever to help establish human rights - certainly not sell arms to whoever wants them.
What's your point - apart from blaming the Jews for Israeli war crimes again.
Now, about all those apartheid states you were telling us about.....!!!

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:00 PM

My point is that all your accusations are bollocks.
All decent governments know it is all lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:55 PM

1639! Jesus wept.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 05:21 PM

It's fairly obvious that there are many dictators in the world, some in the Muslim world and one notable one in the Zionist world, as FDR used to say, "Yes, but they are our bastards" when it was in the interest of the US.

Israel has become "our bastard" and Kerry is a puppet.

Zionism is separate from all of Judaism, but the Israeli propaganda machine equates the two as one, which it is not. There are many Jews who decry how Israel is violating human rights through violence and religious nationalism.

Here are some people with Jewish backgrounds, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Norman Finkelstein, Goldstone and I think but not sure Ilan Pappe, and there are plenty more who object to the Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people. Even the young people of Israel are refusing to be conscripted into a corrupted army.

Yes there are plenty of abuses to go around in many countries of the world but this doesn't absolve Israel for its participation in these abuses.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 05:24 PM

there are plenty of abuses to go around in many countries of the world but this doesn't absolve Israel for its participation in these abuses.

Well, accordiing to BullshitBruce & BooBad, it does absolve them.

Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:55 AM

Yes there are plenty of abuses to go around in many countries of the world

...but Mudcat does not care.
Only Israel is EVER attacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:24 AM

"Only Israel is EVER attacked."
Israeli terrorism is current
Present Israeli behaviour is, as we speak, putting at risk the only slim chance of peace in the Middle East.
Israeli heads of security have publicly described on film how they went about their work - one of them compared the present Israeli leadership with Nazi Germany - all these men are Israeli patriots.
The two official attempts at ethnic cleansing of Bedouins were both withdrawn due to world condemnation
Sabra Shatila - the Palestine blockade - acts of military aggression aimed at Palestinian non-combatants
These are all world-wide recognised abuses of human rights.
A few months ago the screening of 'Five Broken Cameras', a prize-winning documentary, showed up close the predatory and inhuman behavior that is taking place in Israel today.
All are either defended or totally ignored by atrocity deniers.
Any attempts to criticise Israeli behaviour are greeted with hysterical accusations of "Anti-Antisemitism" from anti-Semitics who attribute Israeli war crimes and abuses to the Jewish people as a whole.
Israel places itself in the spotlight because its ongoing behaviour is putting the planet at risk.
Its attitude to its neighbours is an affront to anybody with any feelings of humanity and fairness.
The State of Israel is now ruled by a group of extremists who are intent on creating an Apartheid state and ghettoising all who don't fit into that dream.
That is why "only Israel is ever attacked", which is a stupid lie anyway - human rights abuses from all parts of the world are discussed and condemned on this forum regularly.
This statement is yet another attack on this forum and its members, by an individual whose hatred of humanity appears to know no bounds.
Well done Keith - you've done it again.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:26 AM

Sorry - missed a bit
You appear to be accusing Mudcat of being a platform for Anti-Semitic hatred
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 04:32 AM

Israeli terrorism is current

Israel's neighbour Syria right now is guilty of the worst abuses since WW2.
Who has been moved to post about it?

These are all world-wide recognised abuses of human rights.

Except by decent liberal democracies who recognise no such thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:14 AM

"Israel's neighbour Syria right now is guilty of the worst abuses since WW2."
With the assistance of British equipment, chemicals, not to mention a suggestion by you that Assad by supplied with the wherewithal to control his people with sales of riot control equipment.
What on earth has this to do with Israel and Palestine - the subject of this thread - Mr "Thread Drift"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:29 AM

You make my point Jim.
When Assad was still just killing demonstrators and destroying only Homs, I started a thread condemning it.
It generated little interest, except from you, and you were only interested in attacking Britain as now.
No compassion for murdered Arabs unless Israel can be framed.
No criticism of any other state however evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:06 AM

Why bother negotiating?


Palestinians set new conditions for peace talks to continue

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:07 AM

"When Assad was still just killing demonstrators and destroying only Homs, I started a thread condemning it."
It was on the same thread that you proposed arming Assad with riot control equipment and excused his being sold "only sniper rifles" - which you identified as such - this last was at the time that the citizens of Homs were being cut down in the streets by snipers.
Since then, you have reiterated your support for the sale of riot equipment, even going as far as to search out an obscure Australian group to back up your outrageous proposals.
You have supported the sale of chemicals to the Syrian regime which are capable of being used for the creation of chemical weapons.
So much for your "sympathy" for Assad's victims.
One sick cookie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:23 PM

Palestinians set new conditions for peace talks to continue

Gee, BooBad, ya think Israeli intransigence and stonewalling and the continued construction of "settlements" in the occupied territories might have influenced the decision?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:24 PM

The "settlements", which are nothing but housing developments, had been planned and announced way before the peace talks were proposed. They are being constructed on land legally owned by Jews. Should Jews not be allowed to own land and build on it in the West Bank?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:28 PM

BooBad, Persons of whatever religious persuasion should not be allowed to build by fiat backed up by guns on territory that is not their own.

Hence the occupied territories.

But of course in your book, srael can do no wrong, whatever atrocities it commits.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:33 PM

"on territory that is not their own."

The land on which the "settlements" are built are titled to and legally owned by Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:36 PM

According to whom? The Israeli government?

Try again, apologist.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:40 PM

The settlement movement began long before any authorization by the Israeli Government as Jews went on their own and reclaimed Jewish owned land illegally stolen in 1948 by Jordan. Settlements date from 1967-1973. The Israeli Government authorized nothing until 1974. So to oppose Jewish settlements is actually simply anti-Semitism - saying that Jews should not be allowed to live on land they own and that the mere presence of Jews is a problem for Arabs. If Israel would claim that all Arabs must leave Israel because they are a provocation, the world would scream, but it seems OK to demand that Arab areas be free of Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:49 PM

Jews went on their own and reclaimed Jewish owned land illegally stole,

No BooBad, Israelis (not "Jews") on their own appropriated and occupied land extralegally.

So to oppose Jewish settlements is actually simply anti-Semitism

Same old dogshit "anti-Semite" smokescreen.

So the oppressor gets to dictate what is "right" and what is "legal".

It was ever thus, BooBad.

Shame that the Israeli government has learned absolutely nothing from the historical persecution of the Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:59 PM

The shame is that a two state solution was offered to the Arabs in 1947. Israel accepted it and wanted to live in peace. The Arabs rejected it and wanted to wage war. Everything that has happened since is the result of that decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 07:48 PM

Nice, BooBad - but can we discuss 2014 rather than ancient history? After all, its the present we have to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 07:56 PM

Desmond Tutu has an eloquent statement on the oppression of the Palestinian people.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:32 AM

You make my point again Jim.
You care nothing for murdered Arabs unless you can use them to attack Israel or to attack Britain, or just me.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:46 AM

"You make my point again Jim."
No Keith I'll make my point again
"When Assad was still just killing demonstrators and destroying only Homs, I started a thread condemning it."
It was on the same thread that you proposed arming Assad with riot control equipment and excused his being sold "only sniper rifles" - which you identified as such - this last was at the time that the citizens of Homs were being cut down in the streets by snipers.
Since then, you have reiterated your support for the sale of riot equipment, even going as far as to search out an obscure Australian group to back up your outrageous proposals.
You have supported the sale of chemicals to the Syrian regime which are capable of being used for the creation of chemical weapons.
So much for your "sympathy" for Assad's victims.
One sick cookie"
A hypocritical racist defending a regime committing war crimes and human rights abused
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:48 AM

At the heart of the impasse, however, lies a fundamental asymmetry: Israeli Jews have come to believe that their own best interests, and specifically the imperative to retain a Jewish and democratic Israel, require an accommodation with the Palestinians. There is no comparable imperative on the Palestinian side — not, that is, so long as much of the international community persists in indicating to the Palestinians that they will be able to achieve full independence and sovereignty without the inconvenience of coming to terms with Israel.

Read more: Why the peace talks are collapsing, part 94 | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-the-peace-talks-are-collapsing-part-94/#ixzz2xvXMAEjx

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:52 AM

Times of Israel - there's neutral for you
Israel's behavior throughout the peace talks has been one of aggression and a clear indication that they have no intention of the expansion of settlements, not eve while the talks are taking place.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:58 AM

You make my point again Jim.
You care nothing for murdered Arabs unless you can use them to attack Israel or to attack Britain, or just me.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:41 AM

"You care nothing for murdered Arabs unless you can use them to attack Israel or to attack Britain, or just me."
You are somewhat self-obsessed to think you have any place in my thoughts Keith - this is about Israel and Palestine, not about you.
I am happy to criticise any Government who British sells weapons and the wherewithal to manufacture chemical ones to terrorist states and has defended doing the same, especially when it is the government of my country.
I am equally happy to condemn those who condone such behaviour on a regular basis - if the cap fits, as they say.
If you want to continue to defend Israel's terrorist behaviour, feel free to do so - a friendly piece of advice - your message might be more defective if it wasn't delivered from up your own arse - this is not about you - you only come into it when you defend terrorism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:50 AM

I would never defend any terrorist behaviour.
Does any liberal government accuse Israel of terrorism Jim?
No.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:07 PM

Define "liberal government" - if you can. Or do you mean "most historians"?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:13 PM

"Does any liberal government accuse Israel of terrorism Jim?"
I assume you are referring to the "liberal" Governments who sell arms to terrorists, such as Britain and the United States?
No more Keith; you stand more of a chance of making your point by actually addressing Israel's behaviour rather than producing character witnesses on its behalf who are the world leaders in the arms trade.
Israel is accused and guilty by its behaviour - defend that, if you must
Stop drifting the thread in order to create diversions
Finish eh - let the discussion continue without making it one of our black holes?
Jim Carroll