BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs

Subject: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:03 AM

First off, let me say that I am not in any way anti-vaccine. However, that said, DO NOT vaccinate your pets for Lyme Disease! I was talked into it by my vet a couple of years ago, they assured me that the vaccine was safe and that Lyme Disease is on the rise for dogs in our area. I know the ticks certainly are, and I trusted my vet. The vaccine is administered yearly, and this year was the third year Bandit received it. Within 48 hours, my previously healthy, energetic dog had become so lame in his hindquarters to the point he could barely walk. He didn't seem to know where his right hind foot was, and seemed to have lost sensation in that leg, too. He was also extremely lethargic. I did a little research and everything I came up with, including a study from Cornell University, pointed to a bad reaction to the vaccine. I went back to the vet, she quickly brushed off the suggestion that it was a vaccine reaction and tried telling me that it was a probably a disc issue that was already present. No history of disc issues and he's been given a clean bill of health by the same vet less than 48 hours previously. She prescribed pain meds and an anti-inflammatory and sent us on our way again (after charging for another office visit).

Home again, I did some more research, aided by a few other people, one of whom is a research veterinarian. All of it points to vaccine reaction, and all of the research studies are indicating that the vaccine may cause more health issues than it prevents. The Cornell University study recommends checking your pet for ticks daily instead of getting the vaccine, because it takes at least 48 hours for the ticks to transmit the bacteria that causes the disease. I also got a message from a friend that her dog became extremely ill after receiving the vaccine last year.

This morning, Bandit seems to finally be walking a little better, but I see that he's lost a huge patch of fur at the injection site, about the size of a half-dollar. Monday AM the vet will be hearing back from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:10 AM

Poor Bandit, and how sad for you to see your dog in this state after merely trying to protect him. I actually didn't know that Lyme disease affect animals. My cats used to get several deer ticks on them in my last house, which had a huge garden. I got bitten and needed strong antibiotics after developing the telltale 'bullseye' reaction on the site. Thank you very much for this warning, as people here in Norfolk (where Lyme disease is endemic due to the deer in Thetford forest and elsewhere) may be tempted to have this vaccine for their pets. I'll be telling my friends who have dogs not to go for it. Hope Bandit continues to improve, and your vet should at the very least refund all fees incurred.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:18 AM

That's awful! Do keep us posted - I'd be interested to know what the vet says. Hugs & pats to Bandit.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:41 AM

You don't expect that vet to admit that she screwed up do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:52 AM

Yeah, actually I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 10:24 AM

Some reading you may wish to assimilate before you speak with your vet.

http://www.i-love-dogs.com/forums/dog-chat/20885-lyme-vaccinate-not.html

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 10:48 AM

Clickie:

http://www.i-love-dogs.com/forums/dog-chat/20885-lyme-vaccinate-not.html

(worth it for the pic of the Golden Retriever in any case)

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 10:55 AM

This side effect is easy to discover on the Internet, but supposedly, it's rare. That's no reason why your vet shouldn't have known (or found out) about it--if WE can find out about it, it probably would have been on the circular that came with the vaccine.

Hugs to you. I'd give one to Bandit, but even rumors of an e-hug might freak him out and he's already working on getting better. So please pass my well-wishes on to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 05:30 PM

More anecdotal "evidence" condemning a vaccine that has been of benefit to thousands if not millions of dogs.

There is absolutely nothing in this life that is 100% safe from getting up in the morning to walking across the street.

Puts me in mind of the sure way that the Viet Nam War could have been ended in 48 hours:

Draft dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 05:46 PM

Greg, why is that anytime you interject yourself into a conversation it's to be a jerk? I really hope you're a lot nicer in real life than you are on the internet...

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 05:51 PM

He hates people.

I think it's one of those vaccines that's unnecessary if you can routinely check your dog for ticks. Dogs that run loose or are outside all the time might benefit from it.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:08 PM

I think it's one of those vaccines that's unnecessary

Yup. You "think". Ya got any facts or data to back up that thought?

Greg, why is that anytime you interject yourself into a conversation it's to be a jerk

If raising legitimate points about an unscientific opinion is being a jerk, I'm happy to accept the title.

Actually, I'm very fond of people. Its bullshit I have a low tolerence for.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 08:16 PM

My daughter, in a rural area near Calgary, applies preparations such as K9 advantix monthly to the dog's skin.

No experience with the vaccine. An article in the NY Times urged caution until long term effects are known.

The disease in dogs can be treated with antibiotics

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 06:14 AM

Funnily enough I saw an advert on TV last night for Frontline. You put just a drop on your dog or cat's skin, behind the neck, and it apparently protects against fleas AND ticks for a month. Worth trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: John J
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 06:06 AM

It would be nice if there was a (safe) Lyme's Disease vaccination for humans. I backpack in some of the more remote areas of the UK, ticks & Lyme's Disease are a constant worry.

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:08 AM

There WAS one, John, but the U.S. manufacturer stopped making it - not enough profit for them.

Didn't realize you folks had the Lyme bugs on your side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 01:16 PM

The skin lesion characteristic of infection by Lyme Disease was first recognized in Sweden in 1909. Known in at least 19 countries; Europe, North America (U, S. in 1970, Canada sl. later) and Australia. (1984).
It is carried by several species of ticks.

George P. Schmidt, Journals of the Royal Society for Tropical Medicine and Hygiene, 1984.

In an article in CTVnews,ca, 2012, the demise of human vaccine for the disease was reviewed. Many reports of serious side effecte (many false) caused public rejection of the vaccine, although it had been approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1998.
LYMErix was withdrawn. Legal cases against the company were too expensive to fight. The profit motive was not the reason for dropping production of the vaccine.

The disease is widespread in Canada as well as the U.S.


There is some speculation (no long term studies available yet) that Lyme disease can persist as a long term chronic condition.
Dr. Allen Steere, Massachusetts General Hospital, the key researcher in the study of the disease, is hopeful a better vaccine can be developed.

Dr. Poland, Mayo Clinic, says legal and economic (vaccine expensive) conditions are too unfavorable in the U. S. for a renewal of vaccine production.

Research into a vaccine in Europe will not affect the North American condition, since other strains of the vector are involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 02:01 PM

The NHS website states that there are 2000 - 3000 cases of Lyme disease (in humans) each year here in UK and the number is rising. The long-term effects include fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, even arthritis, but research is needed into which vectors are involved as there are many types of tick. There's a Lyme Disease Society (UK) which says that intravenous amoxycillin is considered effective for people with chronic Lyme. There's also a Daily Mail Online article about the post-vaccination effects on dogs, but this is regarding combined vaccines and possible overload on the immune system (rather similar to the controversy over the MMR vaccine in children) Deer numbers here are going through the roof, and a national cull is being considered. Apart from their ticks, the deer chew up bark and damage trees, destroy habitats and cause road accidents. Poor things, they're so delightful to see, but not apparently a Good Thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: ranger1
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 02:04 PM

It's rodents and not the deer that generally carry the bacteria that is passed on by the tick, Eliza. The deer often get the blame, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 04:45 PM

Interesting, Ranger1. But I have heard that the deer in Thetford Forest (Norfolk) are carriers of the disease and their ticks are vectors. I expect a lot more research needs to be done on this, and also ways of protecting both us and our pets. If ticks live on many mammals, it's more than likely that several, including rodents, are vectors too. It's funny but I've never fussed over removing a tick either from me or my cats. I've just pulled steadily and the whole thing does come out intact. (No head left in.) I believe it needs to be stuck in the flesh for 48 hours for the disease to enter the body, but not certain about this. I'm far far more concerned about wretched mosquitoes in W Africa. Nasty things!

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 05:25 PM

Article on Lyme Disease (from the Public Library of Science, published May 9 2006).

It's also "seed ticks" which are the culprits, probably because they're small (about the size of the head of a pin) and so not noticed. Because they're not obvious, they can remain attached longer and the risk of transmission is higher. The "48 hours" is usually considered to be how long a tick has to be attached to transmit Lyme Disease, but it's less likely a tick on a shorter amount of time can transmit the disease. It's not impossible.

I worked with a guy who was diagnosed with it after one arm became numb and he developed horrible arthritis. Thing is, a few years before this, a bunch of us medical folks had been on a bus going to a training exercise. This friend held up his hand and arm with several little target rashes on it. One doctor said "Haha- looks like Lyme disease." Everybody laughed because that was just over the top and nobody was used to seeing it. IF it had been treated with tetracycline then, my friend would never have developed any other symptoms.

The problem is that medical folks don't suspect it, and many people just don't notice or don't pay attention to the rash. Target rashes on dogs or other animals may not be visible because of fur.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 05:44 PM

Fascinating, jeri, that in your article, oak trees and the resulting acorns seem to play a part in encouraging the rodents. We have a huge number of fine oaks in Norfolk, and of course millions of acorns on the ground each Autumn. I'm also interested to read that the small nymphs are a danger, and difficult to spot. My doctor was a bit sceptical at first, but the 'bullseye' rash conviced him to give me the antibiotics, thankfully. Returning to the OP, I shall be watching my cats more carefully for any sign of ticks. But we live in a house with only a small garden now, and no deer. My cats stay near to the house as they're older and quieter, so I hope there's less risk. Obviously, their fur makes it hard to see any rash.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 07:59 PM

Life cycle of ticks that carry Lyme disease takes two years to complete.
Larvae on birds, mice and small mammals. Nymph on squirrels, small mammals and birds. Fall and winter, adults on deer and large mammals. Eggs are picked up by the small mammals, birds and mice.

Penn State University, College of Agricultural Sciences.

http://ento.psu.edu/extension/urban/lyme-disease

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 05:45 AM

"Oh deer!" as my husband says when he sees a red triangular sign warning of danger of deer crossing the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Lyme disease vaccine for dogs
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 10:50 AM

I worked with a vet, old and-time experienced, at a vaccination clinic, mostly for cats. When I asked him if it was worth getting the feline leukaemia shots for my cats. He looked me in the eye and said, "Don't you think if they had one that works for children instead of letting children die of it they'd use it!" That is not a direct quote, but you get the drift and the way he presented his view was spot on.It sounds as though they have made some progress. I would not give to my pets nor kids.