BS: Why I am gone

Subject: BS: Why I am gone
From: TIA
Date: 22 Sep 13 - 09:54 PM

Because I am following the lead of Azizi.
I love many of you, but the "contributions" of so many new blind haters just make me ill.
Some of them are just ignorant.
Some of them (and you know exactly who you are) have been caught red-handed posting as multiple people.
One of them in particular can be identified just from thread titles - no need to open it to know who will be the OP - with the same tired, racist, hateful message.
I went from participating, to lurking, to now just disappearing. If I wanted to follow the Fox/Breitbart/Drudge blogs, I would. This used to be a haven from such. As an advocate of freedom of speech, I am not going to tell anyone to shut-up. Instead, I will go where I can't hear these assholes spewing.
I will miss many of you, and support you in fighting the good fight.
Cheers and tunes,
TIA

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Elmore
Date: 22 Sep 13 - 10:19 PM

Farewell TIA.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Elmore
Date: 22 Sep 13 - 11:36 PM

Tia: You said you were gone at 9:54 but contributed to another thread at 10:19. How can we miss you if you won't go away?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Iain
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 04:02 AM

One reason I read the forums is that it is open to all points of view.
There are many statements made that I do not accept, but I see that as no reason to wish to depart. Some statements made actually change my stance on things.
    Surely to see all sides of an argument presented, no matter how provocatively phrased, can only be a good thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 04:57 AM

I *almost* started a thread called 'Why I am not gone'.

There is, indeed, a much higher level of - what shall we say? assertiveness? vehemence? - in BS than it real life conversations. Some of it is certainly very ill-informed.

But the point is, just sometimes, I'm the one that's ill-informed. And the only way I know of to address that is when someone else let's me know.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: G-Force
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 05:23 AM

The best way to get through life is to just take the rough with the smooth.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 05:49 AM

> No need to open it to know who will be the OP - with the same tired, racist, hateful message

Why not just bypass them? You don't have to click any link you don't want to.

There's still a lot of good content here - intelligence, goodwill, information - which you'll be missing out on. As you say, it's easy to spot which threads are gonna be trouble. And avoid them.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 07:39 AM

Yeah, TIA, I fully understand where you are coming from... It is disheartening that wacko right wingers seem to have permeated every conceivable vehicle where people communicate... Big media has all but blackballed "liberals"... All we hear is the right wing defining who we are and it does get tiresome hearing and reading these people's boorish and racist garbage but...

...these people ain't squat in the big scheme of things and we will one day look back on these times a the darkest of times... It started with 9/11 and since we haven't had much in the way of fresh air...

Just take some time off, TIA, and come on back when ya' feel like it 'cause ol' Bobert loves ya'...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:41 AM

TIA - Your decision pleases no one but the trolls. You've made them very happy today. In my opinion- it's better to stay and poke fun at the trolls than let them get under your skin.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 09:00 AM

Trolls should be ignored, they thrive on our responces.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Elmore
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 11:44 AM

Actually the trolls on Mudcat are more literate than the trolls on other web sites. Yes, they piss me off, but they serve to strengthen my faith in the correctness of my opinions, and they provoke some brilliant responses from the anti-trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 07:27 PM

I'm with Elmore on that. I live in a very conservative area, and I need to practice my responses on the issues so I can answer challenges intelligently and with diplomacy and an open mind. If I am to accomplish anything in my community, I have to know how to deal with right-wingers without insulting them. I can get the insults out of my system by insulting Songwronger here - and we have a number of sincere right-wingers here, and I've tried to learn how to treat them with respect.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 07:36 PM

TIA, nobody CARES that you are gone, I've been gone for years and nobody even noticed, let alone cared. It's all about the Inner Circle....Max, Mods and Maine-iacs. Trolls are incidental.

Since the minimal moderation favours the trolls, they do get to win more often than not.

Even some of the Old Stalwarts (Spaw, Big Mick, Joe Offer ect) are Seldom Seen, and god forbid MAX should actually check his own site often. After all, he seems to have 'mental problems'.....or whatever.
Oh yes, of course he has a Day Job (don't most of us?) and Other Real Life Problems (don't most of us?) but just WHEN has he really been any sort of Regular around the Cat? Date please....

I gave up caring much a long time ago, but I still check in for some kicks, giggles and laffs. Miz Lizzie and SRS are usually good for a few of those. That is a No Win Game, but they both seem to enjoy it.

Most everyone except herself knows that MLC 'needs help' but she is never going to get it....and has more or less asked to be 'banned'. That won't happen, it would simply Justify her Position....yea, a laff a minute.

I'll keep checking in to see if MC has actually become better or its' old self, but I doubt that.

Ta ta!

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:04 PM

Well, I've been here a long time, but I've never really worked out how to define a "troll".
Is it someone who posts just to provoke an angry response? If so how does one determine whether they are sincere or not?
Is it someone who posts personal attacks, but vows that they are attacking the opinions not the person?
Is it someone who posts on subjects which contradict the majority view?

I see many very unpleasant people here, who seem to be accepted regardless of their behaviour. I also see people, who appear to be pleasant and tolerant, yet their posts are laced with venom toward those who disagree with their views.....some of the old stagers fall into this category.....what we call a clique, a fortress mentality

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:16 PM

Just so you'll know them when you see them:

Inner Circle

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:17 PM

TIA has more intelligence in her finger nail clippings than a lot of people here with their entire mindless heads...

But with that said, hey, folks can either take the wackos here or they can't... If I have had enough of one or another I just ignore everything they post for a month or two and then chime back in and if they are still as whacked out as the last time go back to ignoring them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:32 PM

Are "trolls" all right wingers Bob?
People of left and right can have different views on controversial subjects like abortion, homosexual "marriage", multiculturalism, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: gnu
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:34 PM

Good lord! A "guest" comes in and personally attacks the siteowner? Fuck me. What an ignorant bunch of complete twats. Trolls and assholes expound their virtues ad infinitum and think the core group of 'Catters who have been here far longer don't see thru their shit veil.

Well. Maybe the throlls and assholes have won?. Me? I am exploring a new strategy. I have even been apprised by some mods I should give it up... stop resisting... give it a try as it might help. Rather than rail against such detracters...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULOjT9GYdQ... maybe I should just give up and join Spaw and Sev and John and Dan and.... all the others who can't be arsed anymore.

Does that mean I and they gave up and the trolls win? No. What it means is far more that that. I finally understand why they fucked off. This is not a true community anymore. It's a shitfest of trolls. I wish I had all of the money I ever contributed to this site back so I could hold a wake for it. Open bar fer MEMBERS ONLY.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 08:42 PM

Yeah, Ake, they are...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 09:25 PM

Not actually, Bobert. There are quite a number on the left end of the spectrum who like to toss around verbal abuse, as well. One school of thought runs that reasoned and logical discussions don't draw the sort of attention that crack-rants do. Another school of thought is that posters insult and abuse because they don't actually know enough about the subject to actually discuss it, or care enough to learn about it. Both schools have merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 09:33 PM

I must have superlative taste in subject lines. I cannot recall encountering any rudeness on the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 10:49 PM

Yeah ...over a decade ago I once spouted similar threats...but returned just like "our zit zit."

In the end ...what other place would tolerate thee, me, or her?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Nunc lento sonitu dicunt, Morieris

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 12:21 AM

Inner circle? I never noticed one! There are prolific posters, and there are plenty of posters with a long lifetime's experience, and prepared to share that accrued wisdom. Often the same people.

The moderators don't post much.

Some years ago, I decided that if I wouldn't argue with an axe-grinder or a bigot in a bar, then I wouldn't argue with him or her here. I feel that this decision has reduced the incidence of ear-steam for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 02:55 AM

I notice that those who talk of going either don't go anyway or use it as a threat to get people agreeing with them instead of questioning them.

Nobody owns this forum, except Max and he merely hosts it.   It is what it is. We have our share of nice people, not so nice people, burnt out hippies, closet bigots, beards, brown shirts, liberals, radicals and point scorers.

People will come and go. If you go, do so. Don't bother looking for people pleading. That shows you to be the narcissist I should have added to the above.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 04:19 AM

TIA - I am sorry your experience on Mudcat has become unpleasant. I too felt this for sometime. But now, having grown up a little in the last few years, I realise that I don't expect anyone to sway me from my views, so why should I feel compelled to convince others their opinions, beliefs are incorrect?   That would be very pompous of me.

I glean the good from Mudcat, and be sure there is so much more good than there is bad. It just takes a conscious effort to look for it and to ignore the rest.

All the best,

Tam

p.s. Guest - If you truly value your opinion then you should not fear to post under your (former) Mudcat ID.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 04:20 AM

I personally come here to gain knowledge of Folk Music/singing worldwide and enjoy doing so. I used to get involved in conversations in BS, quite regularly at one point, but came under attack for my Christian views by some quite nasty characters. (No names mentioned as some are still here and they know who they are). My attitude is 'If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen' Read what you want to read, comment on what you want to comment on and ignore personal attacks or detrimental comments. Some people here are quite genuine and give a good account of themselves in the things they write and the opinions they put forward..... the rest are here too! Live with it or don't come here!

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 05:11 AM

In the past (or even in the present, depending on which country you had the accident to be born in), lusty opponents of religion (not necessarily all religions, of course, often just the one in vogue at the time) were very likely to fail to live out their natural lifespan. These days we just get called trolls. At least we've learned how to keep our heads (in more ways than one). If you air your "Christian views" on a website which is basically of a secular nature, which is your inalienable right, yes you can expect to be subjected to opposing points of view, put fairly directly at times. You call it nasty, I say tomayto. You do not own the default position of humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 05:16 AM

I realise that I don't expect anyone to sway me from my views, so why should I feel compelled to convince others their opinions, beliefs are incorrect?

Absolutely. Which is why I can hardly be arsed to go "below the line" these days, unless there's a fun thread or an interesting technical topic to read about.

The value of Mudcat for me is up above the line - music and stuff related to music. That's primarily why I'm here and why I only occasionally contribute to the BS section. Much of what's discussed down here - to me, I stress - is a waste of space. Others seem to get their rocks off on it - good luck to 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 05:37 AM

Steve you state >>>>> If you air your "Christian views" on a website which is basically of a secular nature, which is your inalienable right, yes you can expect to be subjected to opposing points of view, put fairly directly at times. You call it nasty, I say tomayto. You do not own the default position of humanity.<<<<<< Generally I believe my Christian views were aired on threads which were discussing religion and beliefs. I gave my personal views and was attacked personally for giving them....... There are those who do not consider that it is my right to do that and most of those are happy to air their views about people who so believe without expecting any reply............... Yes the website is of a secular nature until someone raises a 'Religious' subject... If you look back over time you will find that many of the threads with religious titles/themes in them have been started by anti-religious members ( or guests)

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 05:47 AM

When you say personally attacked, do you mean you were physically crucified or fed to lions or somebody just didn't give your superstition the respect you feel it demands?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 06:44 AM

Speaking as an atheist/humanist I don't understand why is it so difficult to accord each individual the dignity one expects for oneself?   It is quite simple and the right thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 07:26 AM

I can understand why good people leave, they have no stomach for nastiness, and I understand why they announce that they are leaving. Other good people want to know, that's all.

I've thought about it myself when I've been called a liar and a fool, but, no one has the power to influence my actions. As the saying goes, "Your opinion of me is none of my business."

People who don't even know me; if they decide they don't like me, it's their problem, not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 09:00 AM

Simply stating one's honest opinion, however controversial, is not an act of trolling in itself. (Some opinions go against other general rules, e.g. being racist etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 09:19 AM

It's well to remember that, with one minor exception, the universe is made up of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 09:51 AM

Yes the website is of a secular nature until someone raises a 'Religious' subject.

Raising a religious subject does not alter the mix of people who come here. You don't get to ringfence your conversations just because they happen to be about your religion, any more that I should expect to be able to ringfence any of my pet topics. I can't rattle on about atheism without expecting to get a good kicking here, and I'm more than happy about that, so why should you expect to be wrapped in cotton wool? Anyway, I'd say it all depended on the manner in which you express your views. And never, ever ask me for my prayers, even if you're lumping me in with everyone else here.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 09:59 AM

I don't get why anyone announces that they're going?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:02 AM

Just my thoughts, Mr H. If you are going, then go and don't let the door slam. If you are staying, shut the door and keep the heat in :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:07 AM

Bye-ee!

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:14 AM

HMMMM
Four posts since her dramatic exit.
Guess she exited to another thread.
????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:33 AM

Oh, fellas? I believe TIA is a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:40 AM

When someone chooses to sneer at and insult someone else purely on the basis of that other person's religious faith or lack of it, it says far more about the sneerer and insulter than it does about the object of his or her vilification. And not in a good way, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:48 AM

I did one of these - I am gone forever things - after a tata with Dave Hanson and Diane easby.

The thing is. Mudcat is unique. Its for us. The deaths of our friends are notified here. The latest bits and pieces on the scene are alluded to. If you're in a lather about someone - like I am with blind Lemon Jefferson at the moment - theres always someone to help out....

I can't see anything ever being as good as Mudcat. It can be hurtful and offensive. people say things out loud that they would whisper in real life. I guess some people have a fantasy about folk music which reality can't fulfil - so they balls on about it, like Mussolini addressing his adoring fans. Its an easy trap to fall into.

We're all entitled to say and think malevolent and subversive thoughts to our mates. But if you told Mussolini to be less extreme when he was in full flow - the results would always be predictable.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:54 AM

Bloody hell Al. If folk music is your fantasy I suggest eating cheese before going to bed.

My fantasies certainly don't involve the upstairs room of a draughty pub that smells of cat with an audience who quietly tell you in the beer break that you sang it wrong.

If that's fantasy, I must be living the dream!

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 11:55 AM

"I must have superlative taste in subject lines. I cannot recall encountering any rudeness on the Mudcat."
.,,.
Really, Joe F. Why, what a lucky fellow.

I was once accused by someone who objected to something I had posted of wearing an ill-fitting colostomy bag. I don't so I wasn't too bothered. Still, I should say it was a bit rude, wouldn't you?

However, same time, within a day or two, someone else posted to me "Long may you continue to post to Mudcat".

Can't please everyone. As I summed up on insert on 'Me & Mudcat' I was invited to contribute to last 'This Is Us' CD collection, "'Rough with smooth', as they say" ~~ which I note a point similarly made by one of early posts on this thread, by G-Force.

OTOH, if you really can't stand the heat...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 12:26 PM

I guess in order to resent an "Inner Circle" you have to see yourself as outcast or outside. No-one at Mudcat ever made me feel anything but welcome, and as a result I have never suspected there was an inner circle. Of course, I almost always try to mind my manners in case there IS one, silently watching, but so far, not a peep out of them. I have observed a great number of strong friendships, but nothing circular or hidden.

Maybe it is the case that in order to see and resent Inner Circles, one has to be a bit of a sphincter oneself. Ya think?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 01:50 PM

The problem with being a member of an elite inner circle
is the constantly festering insecurity and paranoia
that there may be an even more elite secret inner inner circle
to which you have not been invited......

.. it's actually quite a comfort to just accept you are unwanted & forever excluded..

it's quite nice out here...

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Elmore
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 01:59 PM

Even the trolls have been nice to me on occasion. BB once called me a witty fool, or something like that. What more could one ask for?

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 03:27 PM

Mr. Happy, I thought I explained that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: GUEST,Former guest from beyond BS
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 03:47 PM

Hello, anyone "home" in here?

"Hello!"

I'm just stealthly "looking back in" to see if anyone is also "looking back in to see me", or if anyone notices I am gone (or here) - or that I am still kinda here (not).

And, btw, I legally reserve the right to look back in, if I feel like doing so in the future (not wishing to exhaust or limit any future change of mind). It's mighty lonely out here in the real bs-less world.

*Disclaimer, not intended to reflect on any person, or seity, real or not

Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 06:40 PM

I don't see the point of the anti-religious jihad that a few folks here engage in. You may have a dislike of the subject. You are entitled to express your opinion. But do you have to bark and drool like a Pavlovian pitbull every time religion is mentioned?