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BS: Why I am gone
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Sep 13 - 07:11 PM I have to say that Jack the Sailor and Steve Shaw and a few others have made it absolutely impossible to speak about the subject of religion with and degree of intelligence or civility. So, I guess I've written that subject off as "bigot territory." See what happened when they joined this thread? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 24 Sep 13 - 07:28 PM Joe Offer "Life involves all types" I suspect there are a still retro-folks who still believe that people are converted by silencing them, through a variety of means (some approaches may seem less gentile than others). An odd concept that, in my observation, has rarely worked anywhere over the longer-term (and most likely has also been mostly ineffective over the shorter-term). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Sep 13 - 08:50 PM So, Joe Offer, a bigot is someone who doesn't entirely go along with your cosy and unreal view of a life that cuddles up with religion. Well here's what I think. You're the bigot. You're the guy who "educates" his children within a religion that they were born into by pure chance, then makes a ton of excuses along the lines of giving them get-outs if they want them (which you probably hope they won't want). You're the guy who shuts a part of his mind off to evidence because you think there's "a greater truth". Actually, I could do a deal with you: stop calling me a bigot because I have the temerity to question your religion in a somewhat forthright way, and I'll stop calling you a bigot for embracing delusion and passing it on to the next generation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Jeri Date: 24 Sep 13 - 09:31 PM I have to agree with Joe that those who are fanatic on the subject of religion make me not want to bother trying to discuss it. Likewise the fanatics on any particular subject. You can't have a decent conversation when one or several crusading whack jobs have their personal volume set to 10 all of the time. Religion, politics, human rights-- it's not worth it to try to be heard in the midst of all the figurative shouting and frantic post-bombing. One thing though, trying to direct what happens here is futile. Nobody cares, except maybe a couple people who know you. And the things you can't stand are things someone else loves, and they won't back off simply because it bothers you. This is me being cynical. It's so nice to hear from all the people who aren't here, though. That's special. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Noreen Date: 24 Sep 13 - 10:35 PM Whatever your opinion, on whatever subject, it is possible to discuss it and exchange opinions with others, with courtesy and politeness, accepting the possibility that YOUR opinion is not the only one that is valid. When I first came to the Mudcat Café, (13 years ago?!) at a very fragile time in my life, I felt myself surrounded by like-minded, warm friendship- it felt safe here. Sadly, the openness and welcoming nature of the site has attracted those who don't respect it and who have made it a far less pleasant place to come. I still do come here, for old times sake, and like someone said above (Will Fly?) it's OUR place still- but I don't feel safe here like I used to and I'm far more wary about posting anything at all personal. It's so nice to hear from all the people who aren't here, though. That's special. Well said, Jeri. To absent friends *clink* :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Musket sans jerkiness Date: 25 Sep 13 - 01:45 AM I love delicious irony. Hence I am still giggling at the contribution by Jack the Sailor. Joe Offer has sadly disappointed me though. Yes, you included Jack the Sailor in your condemnation and perhaps in that you feel it balanced. The sad part is though that the origins of the threads you don't like stoop to a low level when someone who is religious sneers at those who either profess otherwise (atheists to give them a title I suppose) and the vast majority who don't entertain religion but don't go scrabbling for an alternative. (As atheist as a word implies anti theist I doubt the majority of people could be arsed enough to give it any thought. ) The rise of religious threads lately seems to fit in with the push by Christian groups around the world to rally against the increasing irrelevance they have in society and the blunt silly attempts lately to come over as persecuted. The day I see any religion embrace equality I might just be prepared to debate at their level. Until that day, I happily look down on those who use their faith as a sanctimonious weapon. And as that doesn't describe the good guy Joe Offer in general, that's why I am saddened by his post above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 25 Sep 13 - 03:31 AM Abuse is abuse, and trolling is trolling, no matter to what extent the objects deserve criticism. This is how I understand Joe's message, not as a statement about the content of any such dispute. Civilized persons who wish to counteract propaganda have the following options:
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Musket chastised? Date: 25 Sep 13 - 03:49 AM No not really. Ok. Once per thread. There is no God. You have one opportunity to prove me wrong then you have to shut up. Tell you what, here's what I demand you do, as you use italics to underline your own demands. You have to put up with as many posts as it takes to get over a message. Some people try many times and whilst I may or may not agree with them, I accept that they are trying, bless 'em. You see, what you totally fail to understand is that your use of the word "troll" seems linked to your arbitrary terms of posting that you seek to impose. In other words, anybody who doesn't dance to your tune is a troll. Fine. Excuse me whilst I fart. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 25 Sep 13 - 04:15 AM For what it's worth here's my feeble contribution:- I can't for the life of me understand why people get so hurt, incensed, upset and mortally offended by some words on a computer screen. If one is getting hot under the collar, turn the darned thing off. It's not as if the posters are knocking on the front door of your house or banging on the window pane. They don't even know who you are or where you live. I'm very saddened for example by these recent cases of youngsters committing suicide because of 'cyber bullying'. Why couldn't they just stop visiting that site and look at something else? I've read some nasty things on Mudcat, but I haven't ground my teeth down to the gums in shock. It would be nice if folk restrained themselves a bit. But there's no need to get your knickers in a twist or leave completely. I really like most of the people on here, and enjoy visiting Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 25 Sep 13 - 04:22 AM Some folks are nice and courteous who believe in a God, some are the same that don't believe in such, and some of those who are not sure are share the same characteristics. Then, there are the opposite types in all said groups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: akenaton Date: 25 Sep 13 - 04:43 AM If we do not stop it, the BS forum will die, or become a mindless pit. If there are to be subjects which "must not be discussed", that is for the site owner or moderators to decide upon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 25 Sep 13 - 05:10 AM Musket, I do not impose anything, I just describe what sort of behaviour seems civilized to me. If you prefer to be perceived as an "onanist" (cf. the other thread on the same topic), you are not affected at all: proceed as you did before. If you feel to be perfectly civilized and my observation to be wrong, you are welcome to argue. I avoid using nouns like "troll" (or "thief", "liar" etc.), since they suggest invariability. For my usage of the word "trolling" I gave definitions (conforming with Internet-savvy dictionaries) and arguments; you are welcome to challenge either, if you are specific. Once per thread: this obviously refers to any single point. We should strive to make it clear and concise in a single message, but sometimes we fail that and need more than one post to elaborate or explain. What I am criticizing is repetitions for the sole reason of having the last word; this is not only rude but also pointless (- Mudcat threads being mistaken for online chats whose older posts would descend into oblivion). Enjoy your effluvium. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Richard Bridge Date: 25 Sep 13 - 05:26 AM Eliza asserts that these expressing unacceptable opinins here are not invading our lives. But they are. They are proponents of the attempts at oppression that are so prevalent in the USA, by the lunatic right, by so-called libertarians, by fundagelicals, who would empower the oppression of the less fortunate, of the less violent, of women, of homosexuals. What they propose would damage and should be opposed by decent people here and in the physical world. They should be vilified and excoriated here. Mither is too charitable to them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Musket sans charity Date: 25 Sep 13 - 05:57 AM And that's saying something Bridge... Don't just mention the ones the other side of the pond, please try to be inclusive and include Scotland eh? Grishka. If you want to get a point over in one post, that is difficult for many, yourself included. There have been a few posts that I have reacted to where you have then further clarified and yes, on a couple of occasions I feel I had got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Sometimes, a point needs explaining further. I am civilised. Or at least I can tie my own shoelaces, which is not a bad measure of the word. Whether I wish to debate or confront depends on the view posted. If we are not careful, we will join Akenhateon in his mindless pit that he at last acknowledges exists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: MGM·Lion Date: 25 Sep 13 - 11:00 AM But R Bridge's definition of those who, he states in his last post, "should be opposed by decent people here and in the physical world [and] vilified and excoriated here", I know from experience to comprise merely those who have to barefaced gall and impudence to happen not to share his own jejune & fatuous political slant. Because I don't concur unquestioningly, 100%, with all his oh-so-predictable left-oriented political views, he has often denounced me as one "who would empower the oppression of the less fortunate, of the less violent", and stated explicitly that I deserve, ('have earned' as he once charmingly expressed it), rudeness, obloquy, and abuse as such a face-grinding oppressor. And then, like as so many of such orientation (horny-handed sons of toil like him, slaving away in solicitors' offices), he proceeds to strike conceited airs of moral superiority for being so supremely enlightened! Pathetic... ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: kendall Date: 25 Sep 13 - 11:02 AM No one has a right to tell another that your opinion is wrong. The most you can say is, "I have a different opinion." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,MikeL2 Date: 25 Sep 13 - 11:26 AM Hi Well said Eliza. If people don't like something posted here all they have to do is go to next posting - easy eh ?? I do enjoy most people's posts here - even when their views don't agree with my own. Just ignore the the trolls....they will soon disappear. Regards MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 25 Sep 13 - 12:09 PM One thing I should add to my criteria: To convey the impression of being civilized, it also helps to read messages carefully before responding. Otherwise the authors may feel obliged to restate and explain their point unnecessarily. (Many messages do not deserve reading carefully, but all the less they deserve a reply.) Sorting posters into drawers and writing "blindly" to a whole drawer is very bad style. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 25 Sep 13 - 02:59 PM Musket, you and your fellow hateful ranters are entertaining each other - the rest of us do not find that entertaining at all, and not convincing either. Each of you is demolishing his own respectability, not anybody else's, however deserving. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 25 Sep 13 - 03:19 PM And BTW, I am not moaning about manners, I gave practical tips to all interested Mudcatters about how to react to unpleasant messages. It is not my concern to find out who is the worst of all, and definitely not to suggest criteria for censorship. The reason why I discuss with Musket is to refute his idea that someone who gratuitously abuses the deserving can appear as a civilized person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Sep 13 - 07:30 PM Ian sounds like an exceptionally good person to me. OK, he "supports" Sheffield Wednesday, but even that puts me in a weak position after tonight's completely unjust "defeat" of Liverpool by the arch-enemy. However. Know summat, achytony? Ian is a good bloke because he "does" humanity in a way that someone like you can never recognise. Your brain is sullied by your perverted attitude to gay people, who are human beings just like you, Ian and me. Yeah, they're just like you. Identical, in fact. Hope you feel good about that. You are outdated, outmoded, outdone and out of it. You haven't a bloody clue about what makes people who are ever so slightly different from you (in your opinion only) tick. I can conclude that you probably don't even know what makes you tick. The really worrying thing for you should be that your obsession with gay people marks you out as a closet something. Can't quite put my finger on what that something might be and wouldn't really want to. There must be something about yourself that you haven't told us that makes you think like this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Musket living the dream Date: 26 Sep 13 - 01:26 AM Make that evens on the pint you owe me on another thread mate. Grishka. Your penultimate post puts confronting bigotry on the same level as spouting it then your last post appears to say such people don't come across as civilised. In which case say so. As it is, a conspiracy of silence seems to be louder than words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Sep 13 - 01:58 AM In exactly the same way as one man's 'terrorist' is another man's 'freedom-fighter', it could be argued that one man's 'bigot' is another man's 'realist'. There are always two sides to a debate, and both should be able to be freely aired. Stifling inconvenient opinions is the tactic of the extremist, and doesn't in any way win an argument. You don't defeat an opponent in debate by insulting him, screaming '"Bigot" and refusing to allow him to speak. You do it by allowing him to make his argument, however unacceptable you might find it, and then proposing a counter-argument which is more compelling and against which he has no plausible response. Those who seek to silence others on this forum simply display either the paucity of their own arguments, or their inability to make those arguments convincingly, or both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Sep 13 - 03:53 AM You've proved exactly the point I was trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to make - that by allowing others to air their views, you allow them the opportunity to condemn themselves by their own words. If you simply stifle them, you don't change anything - they still hold their, perhaps odious, views and are neither deflected from their purpose nor persuaded of their error (in fact, it may very we'll serve to reinforce their opinions by virtue of giving them a sense that they are somehow the victim). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Sep 13 - 04:02 AM And, of course, it's all OK while you're the one playing Big Brother and defining what may, and may not, be spoken of, but remember that fashions change and, one day, it may be your own opinions that become taboo, and Big Brother may have his secret ears and eyes on you. By the way, I use the word "You" above in the impersonal sense of "One" - not you personally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Sep 13 - 04:06 AM And now I'm gone (but only from this thread)! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 26 Sep 13 - 04:43 AM I do see your point Richard, that we should be vigilant and oppose all the 'isms' that oppress and hurt. And perhaps my stance is a bit lily-livered. I find strident confrontation rather difficult though. But one can, I think, express disapproval and even anger in a civilised and mature way. In fact, such a restrained response may in the end have more effect than outright ranting and insults. All I was trying to say (perhaps not very clearly) is that one isn't condemned to read posts which upset and enrage if one would rather not. There are some funny and interesting threads to go to instead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Musket curious Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:04 AM Fair do's Backwoodsman. But I am not on a crusade to stifle him. The genie is out of the bottle in his case. Making it perfectly clear that such exhibition of personality disorder will be rigorously challenged may just either shut him up in future or dissuade others who Google key words that interest them and find mudcat.org. We had it with a UK fascist party the other year. It would be nice if a gay person could use Mudcat.org and participate without having to read things that any decent person in their position would find distressing. Hence my reporting it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Sep 13 - 07:57 AM Sorry you have left us, TIA. But it's definitely understandable. Only thing that is not understandable is not being interested in the discussions above the line. I find you can learn a lot above the line, and only rarely do the flame war fans intrude----usually those who are unwilling to live and let live on the subject of religion. However there are virtually always worthwhile posts above the line. Just finding out about concert opportunities is worth a lot--I just found out we may get a chance to see Archie Fisher if we play our cards right. Why should anybody waste time below the line--unless he or she really has an appetite for combat---or a bit of time to kill? Nothing is ever resolved below the line As you note, Songwrongheader and a few others can be counted on to start threads which have no point other than stirring the pot. But, as in all threads, nobody has to respond. If somebody favors you with gutter language, you can ask whether they also speak English--and let it go at that. You will be sorely missed--one the few voices of reason below the line. To be continued. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 26 Sep 13 - 08:23 AM I would like to see what Musket sees as a hate crime. I have followed Akeneaton over the years and never seen any such. It would be out of character. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 26 Sep 13 - 08:37 AM Anyone know where this quote came from - possibly a movie? ""Never miss a good opportunity to shut up"" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Sep 13 - 08:52 AM As I've never actually regarded atheism as a point of view as such (seeing as we are no more than the invention of deluded people), I never cease to be amused that anyone can think you can have such a thing as an "atheist bigot". Just thought I'd mention it. Of course, atheists can be bigoted about stuff aside from religion. I've heard, for example, that Yorkshire and environs contain several "Sheffield Wednesday fans" who haven't been to Mass for positively years! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Stringsinger Date: 26 Sep 13 - 12:28 PM I am grateful to Joe, Max and Dick for supplying a forum for expressing views and in spite of the brickbats being thrown, offering a chance to clarify ideas which would be difficult to state in other blogs and venues. I see Mudcat as a champion of genuine democracy where citizens can have their say. So often on the media, you get pundits yelling at each other without any listening skills whatever and those who shout the loudest get heard. Or those who can buy "free speech" as the Supreme Court has ruled, can drown out the voices of dissent. Here, you can examine statements made by anyone and offer an alternative point of view. That's why I keep coming back. I expect the brickbats but here there is an opportunity to delve into the underlying motivations of those who throw them and address them rationally. I am one who thinks that there is no separation between one's musical expression and political or philosophical ideas. In this I concur with Pete Seeger, Steve Earle, Woody Guthrie, Beethoven, Chopin, Louis Armstrong and other leading influential musicians. I deplore the censorship of "Pussy Riot" in Russia by Putin although I might question their ideas. They don't deserve what Putin gave them the same way Victor Jara didn't deserve the torture he received at the hands of the Chilean government eventually overtaken by Noriega. Mudcat offers a forum which is invaluable and connects humanitarian ideals to music. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Jeri Date: 26 Sep 13 - 03:28 PM It's sort of amusing (and explanatory) that yet another thread has turned into a general-purpose bitch session. The MAIN problem is that some people are NOT gone-- or at least that they can't put the good of the community above their person urges. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 26 Sep 13 - 04:26 PM Ake, note the stats from below - what do you propose be done to rectify this major health issue among minorties? Note I am not suggesting that NA Indians (and possibly the African Americans) should be "rounded up" and put on reservations, and kept away from the healthier whites (because, we did that, it did not work:) ""Minority Health HIV and Sexually Transmitted Diseases - Newly diagnosed cases of HIV. The HIV rate for American Indians is nearly 80 percent higher than the rate for whites, but much lower than the rate for African Americans. The same is true for the overall rate of certain sexually transmitted diseases among American Indians, whites, and African Americans (early syphilis,gonorrhea, and chlamydia)"' Source: NA Indians Health North Carolina |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: akenaton Date: 26 Sep 13 - 04:28 PM The main problem is personal abuse Jeri. Why was the rule on personal abuse abandoned? I can only think of perhaps three people who do it in a serious and regular basis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Noreen Date: 26 Sep 13 - 05:08 PM Exactly what I was thinking Jeri. That and *yawn*.... in a bar I'd have walked away from this 'conversation' a long time ago. Can we not reserve a separate 'room' here for those who just want to abuse each other ad nauseam, and keep their vituperation away from the rest of us nice people? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Stringsinger Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:03 PM " But one can, I think, express disapproval and even anger in a civilised and mature way. In fact, such a restrained response may in the end have more effect than outright ranting and insults." Absolutely correct, Eliza. In fact, this may be one of the best things about Mudcat BS. " All I was trying to say (perhaps not very clearly) is that one isn't condemned to read posts which upset and enrage if one would rather not. There are some funny and interesting threads to go to instead." Right! I think one can deal with outbursts and insults with rationality and clarity. I don't expect that people should muzzle their passions but as you say, a restrained response elevates the level of conversation about controversial topics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:07 PM 1 in 10 women have breast cancer. Almost 100% of new cases of breast cancer are amongst women. This is an epidemic and for this reason I suggest that all women are subjected to compulsory screening for breast cancer every 3 years. Us men can just sit back and relax as usual. Or start rounding up homosexuals I suppose... DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:13 PM Well I suspect the health impact on the NA indians, and African Americans is not a small matter to these people, Ake? If sexual intercourse is the means of infection, and they have sex with other (seting asided the bisexual factor), how does it impact others- as they seem to know and accept the risks? What makes you sure that the homosexual community is any less likely to stay faithful to a partner than others in society, for example the younger single population. I am not sure where you are going with this, beyond the hint of anti homosexual perspective. Why do you seem so " stuck" on this issue? Are you proposing a solution? Are you on a drive to end homosexuality (good luck with that). Do you propose greater health education with this group? Are you proposing the benefits of gay mariage and fewer partners? Not reading many of your other posts on this, I do not understand your preoccupation with this issue? I give you the benefit of the doubt (lacking information) that it is not coming from prejudice. Are you merely ringing alarm, in concern for this segment? In a nutshell, what's your point with obsessing with this matter? So, what is this all about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:21 PM Can we not reserve a separate 'room' here for those who just want to abuse each other ad nauseam, and keep their vituperation away from the rest of us nice people? As in, let's always sweep unpleasantness under the carpet so as not to offend the oh so delicate views of the Nice People? Yep, go for it. What a great way of solving problems. Alternatively, do think before you post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: akenaton Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:35 PM Ed....Do you not agree that this is an extremely serious matter? I would never have mentioned it on this thread had I not been goaded into doing so by other posters. How can anyone be "anti homosexual"? homosexuality is a fact. You are not being reasonable. How can anyone hope to end homosexuality? You are not being reasonable! I am suggesting a procedure which has possibilities of cutting the horrific infection rates amongst male homosexuals. "Gay marriage" is not a solution, it is a smokescreen. I don't feel that I am "obsessing" on this issue, I am certain that this issue is being ignored by many people here and in the wider population, on ideological grounds; and that is an absolute disgrace. Do these figures really not affect you at all? Did you even read them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: akenaton Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:44 PM DtN.....Cancer is not an infectious disease. Of course screening and testing for cancer is a very good idea, but as it is non infectious the decision to make them compulsory or not is debatable. As we continue to live longer, one in three of us will develop cancer of some sort, but it appears to be largely age related. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Jeri Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:44 PM You guys decided to let Ake drive this bus? Prompted by Ake's comment, but "you" is generic. Some years ago, Max asked me if I wanted to be a "volunteer" here, at what was essentially a website for those who shared a common interest in folk. I would fix HTML and line breaks (it wasn't automatic then) and delete duplicate and blank posts. If people argued, they did so with an underlying repect and there were lines that never seemed to be crossed. Now, there are threads exclusively for people to argue. Most of those people don't seem to care at all about folk music. Max once said Mudcat was whatever the people here wanted it to be. Some of them want it to be a long series of bar brawls. People who don't want that can do nothing about it except complain. Because those who are engaged in the bar fights don't care. They don't care about bothering others or making the place seem poisoned. They don't care how stupid or petty they look. They don't care about "nice" and "respectful. They don't care about winning a fight, just the process of fighting. They care about being able to do what THEY want, whenever and wherever they want to do it. There are too many of them, and they're too intent on keeping the nastiness going, and I can't win. I've deleted posts attacking one person, only to have that person fire off three retaliatory messages in the minutes it took to delete the attack that prompted it all. Then they accused me of making them look stupid. I didn't do that. There are people who, if they show up, their usual adversaries can be predicted to join soon, and selfishly and make it impossible for anyone else to contribute. There are some who intentionally troll, but mostly, there are is a ready-made group of... I know it's not the best term, but it's as disgusting as I can manage to get.. troll-fuckers: a bunch of jerks who come in looking to be provoked and take advantage of any offense. Some are in the US and some are British. I don't see other countries getting involved routinely. I know this is not what Max wants for his site, but I'm one person, and I can only do what I can do. If someone complains about personal abuse because they're engaging in a pub brawl and get a bloody nose, STAY OUT OF THE FUCKING FIGHTS. If it happens in a music discussion, or if someone gets blind-sided, I'll try to stop it. If you want adult supervision to make the bad kids behave, you probably shouldn't be on the internet. That's not why I'm here. I don't enjoy reading unpleasantness. I don't choose to because it makes me sick, and I'm here for what I love, not what I hate. No one can control you but you. You are the ONLY person you can control. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: akenaton Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:57 PM Good post jeri and you have made yourself clear. I take pride in not abusing people and trying to put forward a reasoned argument backed by as many facts as I can find. Unfortunately some subjects of discussion here seem to provoke abuse in others. Religion, Homosexuality, Abortion.....controversial subjects. My advice is either ban the discussion of controversial subjects, or ban the abusers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Jeri Date: 26 Sep 13 - 07:22 PM That would still involve making someone else do something to make the world safe, and I'm pretty sure it would create more work than it would save. Try to come up with a solution that doesn't involve someone else assuming the role of thread police. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 26 Sep 13 - 07:27 PM Yes, Ake (I trust calling you that is OK) better managed disease prevention-education-awareness among this group and others impacted by disease (regardless of the size of the group) does interest and concern me. For example, people impacted by disease caused by poverty and hunger is huge all around the world. Take malaria, a huge problem which could be reduced much better with more resources from private donations and international focus. So, from that perspective, I understand a concern regarding the health impact of unprotected sex with random partners, among the homosexual and heterosexuals community. Public concern for HIV has likely lessened in the past few years (compared to a few years ago). We all should be more vigilant and caring and encourage increased education, awareness and reasonable measures to limit its spread. I am at low risk, as many, because I am married and don't fool around. I suspect a significant risk for spreading such stuff around is centered around those who are in a different situation. Now, back to my question. Where are you coming from on this topic, and what is your goal and solution? Unlike some others (as it seems), I have not been previously been exposed to your perspective on this issue. I trust you are well meaning, and considerate and understanding to the homosexual community (as I am. However, I am cautious, as you have seemed to "stirred up" a few folks on this topic, that may be more aware of previous discussions than I am. As a side note, I have no interest in homophobic theories, and respect those in the homosexual community equally to those in any other community. So, Ake, here is your chance to explain to me what is on your mind on the topic - to someone who currently has an open mind on your intent. I ask that you be clear on what is fueling your interest in the topic. Hopefully, others have misunderstood your intent and you can express it in a manner that is considerate of the concerns and sensitivities of other members. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Sep 13 - 07:50 PM "Good post Jeri" my arse. I hate to keep on repeating this, but there is no rule that says you have to join in with any folk music discussion, non-folk music discussion, unpleasantness, pleasantness, any other ness, any Wacko religion thread, anything at all. And let's put this "they're not interested in folk music" crap to bed once and for all. Righto, I feel a bit guilty that I don't post more above the bloody line. That's because I mostly like Irish music and I only play the harmonica. Those things don't come up much. But that does not mean I don't read threads above the line. I do, every day, and I learn a fair bit. Just because I don't post there much (I do a bit as it happens) doesn't mean I'm some kind of hateful troll intent on destroying the website. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Janie Date: 26 Sep 13 - 08:11 PM Thank you, Jeri! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why I am gone From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Sep 13 - 09:30 PM Wow, didn't take long for the usual suspects to start another religion flame war. What I find fascinating is that while Mudcat believers by and large are more than willing to live and let live on the subject of religion, some of our illustrious atheists seem to salivate at any opportunity, real or imagined, to attack religion. They do it so often, with such enthusiasm, that it makes you think that perhaps they protest too much. It seems possible, based on their behavior, that some of the would-be foam-dripping atheists may actually be afraid of believing. And what a world-shaking tragedy that would be. I can't imagine how they could live with themselves after such an unforgiveable apostasy. By the way, regardless of what witty replies are devised to respond to this, and how the flame warriors beg me to join in again, this is in fact my last posting--on this thread. So have fun, boys. |