BS: Chicken from SE Asia

Subject: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 01:38 PM

Looked at packages of "Pinty's" fried chicken in Sobeys (Canada) and saw that it was produced in Thailand.

Is SE Asian chicken sold in U. S. or UK?

I steer clear of fish/shellfish from the region, as well as fowl.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 01:43 PM

Most of the chicken on the shelves here is from huge US agribusiness mega corporations.


MMMMM force antibiotic fed tiny caged chicken mmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 02:55 PM

There are food products from all over the world available here, Q. In point of fact, about 90% of the seafood consumed in the US is imported, mostly from China, Thailand, Canada, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Ecuador. Not sure how or why one avoids the SE Asian seafood, or why one would favor Chinese or Ecuadorian caught fish over that caught by Vietnamese or Indonesians.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 03:27 PM

I refuse to eat chicken from elsewhere than Atlanic Canada. Some stores here are selling chickens grown here, shipped to PQ, processed and shipped back. Maple Leaf bought the big "plants" here and is shutting them down. They can go fuck themselves. And, they have been the cause of a lot of food recalls. I buy local.

Chickens from Asia? Do they have to fly here on their own?

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 04:34 PM

I only eat compassionately-raised poultry and their eggs. The alternative is terribly cruel, and probably diseased or contaminated, as I don't suppose there's much monitoring of the stock in Asia. It's cheaper, but at what price, to the Planet in carbon footprint, and to our health in the long term?

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 05:02 PM

Its hard to tell where food products are from anymore. Some are produced-caught in one place and processed elsewhere, where labour is cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 05:59 PM

Ed... yer a Canuck... we have labelling laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 06:46 PM

Eliza-Not sure about how things work in the UK, but the standards for "compassionately raised poultry"are pretty lax here. The "compassionate" labels make people feel better, but chances are, the conditions are not as benign as you imagine them.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 07:14 PM

My post questioned SE Asian chickens because of H5N1 and other avian viruses and the possibility of those viruses entering North America. Last week, a woman died in Calgary from an avian virus infection she received in China, so there is a bit of concern here.

Pinty's products are put up in Thailand, which apparently doesn't have the viruses at this time. The viruses have affected flocks in six Asian countries. It has spread to Egypt.

"Compassionately raised poultry..." Couldn't care less, they all have a death sentence hanging over them and get it in the neck anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,ED (
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 07:34 PM

Yes indeed, gnu, there are labeling laws in most countries and ways around where the product actually comes from.

An example: Some fish that is caught in one country, sent to China for processing. So, where would you expect it to be labeled as a product of?

This is the puzzle that some encounter when boycotong products of a country. Spain used to have a ban on importing Canadian fish (in retaliation for Canada not giving them access to ports for refueling fishing boats operating just outside Canads's 200 mile zone). What the Spanish importers did not know is the fish they imported from other countries was actually Canadian fish sent through those countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 07:54 PM

An example of the difficulty of determining the origins of products/produce is well known in the oil importing business.

Treaties with Mexico permit Mexican crude oil to be imported into the US at favorible tariffs when compared to the "import taxes" on oil from elsewhere.

Crude oil is brought into Mexico in tankers and transferred to trucks that drive across the border into Texas on a "closed loop road" that connects to NO OTHER ROUTES and returns to ONLY Mexico.

Trans-shipment of oil through the US for shipment elsewhere is untaxed.

By being passed through the US (for free) and imported only into Mexico the oil becomes "Mexican Crude" which is then trucked across the border at "Mexican rates" for refining in Texas and sale in the US.

How do you know where it came from when you pump it into your tank ... ... ??

The description of implementation of the "loop" road is somewhat simplified, but you get the idea, I hope. Similar gimmicks, some less obvious, certainly exist for all sorts of "stuff," some of which we eat and others we only use to annoy those around us by blaring bad music where they can't avoid it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 11:30 PM

Q-No evidence that I could find(and, due to some personal quirks, I spent the last hour or so looking into it) indicates that Avian flu is transmitted by anything other that direct contact with an infected carrier, and, as has been pointed out pretty much continuously for the last nine years, it is only highly contagious among avian creatures, which, on last check, we are not.

From my point of view, it seems an amazing waste of resources to have my dinner (or any meal) prepared and canned in Thailand and sent to me by air.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:33 AM

Stim, you're right of course. It's never easy to be jolly sure the hens are well cared-for. But I get my eggs from a lady in our village (she lives at the back of my garden) and the hens are free-range, big brawny things; their eggs are to die for. Poultry I get from Roys of Wroxham, and it's locally produced stuff, free-range and organic, but I've never actually seen them in their field. I can't do more than this, and I realise there could be abuses. I agree that buying stuff from the other side of the world to eat is loony.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:00 PM

Q... I looked at all the Pinty's I could find at Sobeys today and none said "Product of... ". What I found was "Prepared for Sobeys" and the meat plant symbol WITHOUT a plant number. Now, if it says "Prepared for...", it means it comes from the US (and, with NAFTA, I assume that may include Mexico. I shall have to research that one. When I see any meat w/o a plant number in the symbol, I, a) do not buy it; b) complain to the store manager. Can you tell me the exact name of the product?

I shall attempt to gather info and report.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:05 PM

Cicky later... gotta get my AB beef in the oven...

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/labelling/guide-to-food-labelling-and-advertising/eng/1300118951990/1300118996556

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:23 PM

Health Canada link re labelling.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:58 PM

Q ,


    I feel kinda dumb for not picking up on this sooner. I have to agree with Stim and go a step further. I can't imagine an avian virus surviving a deep frying, much more than a deep fry and a deep freeze. You can confirm this with your health department but I'm confident you are quite safe from that particular hazard.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:13 PM

Gnu, the product is "Pinty's Caesar, our premium chicken wings." The package (900g) is clearly labeled "Product of Thailand- Produit de la Thalande."

On the end of the carton is the statement "Packaged in Canada by Pinty's Delicious Foods Inc Burlington, Ontario.

I had to go outside and retrieve the carton from the recycle bin. We had cooked the wings before I read the full label. We tossed the wings in the garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:48 PM

If a label says " product of" it normally means it was processed in that country and does not mean it was necessarily grown or harvested in that country. With globalization, more food is now harvested-grown in one country and processed in another (if it is cheapervto do so). Processing plant codes are included on products to help zero in on errors during the processing phase to assist health authorities and processors.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:17 PM

Thanks much, Q, and special thanks for "We tossed the wings in the garbage."

Someone will be along shortly to shit on you and I for saying these things and I say... careful you don't step in your own shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 02:13 AM

Q-You are in much, much, greater danger from which ever flu variants are circulating this year that from the avian variety. The number of deaths from flu in Canada seems to average about 3,500 per year. Only one person in Canada, and indeed all of North America, has ever died of avian flu.

As to tossing the chicken wings, that is a judgement call. I wouldn't have gotten them in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:20 AM

Regarding cooking poultry thoroughly at a reasonably high temp, I imagine it would kill any virus or baccillus. However, BSE ('mad cow' disease) is in the form of prions which are notoriously hard to kill in normal cooking situations, so one can't be sure. I am more concerned about the suffering of the livestock during their raising, and the harm to the planet from the long-distance travel. I also think that locally-sourced, free-range, organic food is absolutely delicious! (if a bit expensive)

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

In UK, foreign produced chicken including from SE Asia is sold alongside and in competion to home produced products which have to be reared under stringent rules.

Buy organic.
They can not be fed antibiotics so can not be kept in overcrowded conditions, and contain no growth hormones or other chemical additions.
it costs a bit more.
Do you always buy the cheapest available cars, clothes, shoes etc.?
Why buy the cheapest food?

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 05:04 AM

Being on quite a low income, we try to economise with things like clothes and items for the home, and our poor old car is 10 yrs old and a bit rusty. But getting proper nourishment and avoiding dodgy additives and chemicals is very important to us, so we're prepared to get the best we can. And if one cooks from scratch, as I do, one can use the ingredients economically and make them go further. My husband was half-starved, had rickets and was frail when he arrived from Africa, so it's such a pleasure to see him, years later, robust, strong and in excellent health. I want to put good, wholesome stuff into his tum, not dodgy produce!

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: bubblyrat
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 07:47 AM

Here in the UK we are surrounded by waters teeming with fish ; but,because of European Quotas (which ,naturally ,favour everbody except the UK !) we are now importing fish ( Tilapia -Yuk !! ) from , I believe ,the Nile and the Mekong Delta ! AS for chicken ; I saw a TV program (I'll spell it your way !) recently ,about the fate of chickens at a Thai or Vietnamese processing plant . The chickens are hung upside-down . They go into a machine to be plucked . They are STILL ALIVE !! . so--- do NOT buy foreign chicken . Sadly ,most Chinese and Indian restaurants in the UK are supplied with CHEAP Far Eastern chicken , but I only buy British, corn-fed , free range birds ( less fat and much tastier !).

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:48 AM

Something that worries me is that the "corn-fed" chickens in the supermarket are yellow. I naively supposed it was from the yellow corn, but when I bought one I found that the colour was barely skin-deep. Why should eating corn turn just the skin surface yellow? I suspected that the colour was added artificially, and I have not bought "corn-fed" chicken since.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 09:30 AM

I've often wondered about that, topsie. Some imported chicken has been dipped in dangerous aniline dye to give that effect, and is, of course, illegal. But how would one know? I don't buy it, just ordinary organic free-range is enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 09:51 AM

As far as I remember, the yellow chicken I bought claimed to be French.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:07 AM

dangerous dyes 

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 01:34 PM

LOL topsie! Did it sit up in the oven and squawk, "Je suis francais!" ?
Like you, I don't see why eating corn would make any part of the chicken yellow. After all, I love sprouts but it hasn't turned me green!
Thank you Ed for that info about dyes. Interesting and scary. Very scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 11:07 AM

Hate to burst your bubble, bubblyrat, but chickens are killed pretty much the same way in the UK. As for the tasty,healthy natural stuff, watch this and tell me how comfortable you are with way that they are prepared for your dining pleasure.Organic, Free Range Chickens, slaughtered and butchered in Sussex

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 02:03 PM

What does organic mean in UK with regard to poultry?
Chemicals are allowed- but they must be on the list prepared by "various organizations across UK and EU. The same holds for "otganic" vegetables, etc.

The poultry is allowed free range for at least a few hours. No requirement as to surface, may be gravel/sand or grass. The exposure to sunlight helps to provide sufficient vitamins A and D; which are added as supplements in confined conditions.

U. S. and Canadian requirements are similar.
Feed must be certified (no animal products, etc.). In Canada, use of hormones has been prohibited in all poultry since the 1960s; no hormones or antibiotics allowed in U. S.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 04:59 AM

The difference between organic and other chickens UK.

Intensively reared broiler chickens (reared for their meat) are normally housed in groups of up to 40,000 in large sheds; turkeys in groups of up to 25,000. It now takes intensive broiler chickens half the time - just 41 days - to reach their slaughter weight than it did 30 years ago. Modern breeds of chicken have been developed to put on weight quickly and the rate of growth is often further accelerated by growth-promoting drugs. The rapid growth rates often mean that the birds' hearts and lungs can't keep pace with their rapid muscle growth and they suffer from painful skeletal problems. 100,000 birds die each day in UK broiler sheds as a result of heart failure, disease and afflictions caused by intensive methods of production.

On Soil Association organic farms, hens are able to exercise more of their natural behaviour, including ranging freely, scratching, dust-bathing and feeding in grass fields. To enable them to do this, organic chickens have continuous daytime access to pasture and range, except during bad weather. Organic farmers are encouraged to choose slower growing breeds which are well suited to free range systems and growth-promoting drugs are banned.

There is widespread concern about the use of antibiotics in intensive poultry units. Due to the large flocks, disease can spread very quickly. Low doses, given in feed and water, are a form of insurance for the farmer. But long-term, low-dose exposure is far more likely to create resistance to antibiotics - many of which are also used to treat humans. Organic farmers would only use a course of antibiotics to treat a specific problem and to prevent any unnecessary suffering.

Every year 35 million turkeys are bred for the table in Britain. The vast majority are fattened in sheds which contain up to 25,000 birds. Conditions are similar to those in the intensive broiler industry, and the birds suffer from a variety of ailments which stem from overcrowding, a lack of dry litter and aggressive behaviour. They never feel the sun on their back; never roost in trees, as wild turkeys do; never graze outdoors. The breeding flocks fare no better. Modern hybrid turkeys have such heavy breasts that the stags are incapable of serving the hens. Artificial insemination, rather than natural sex, is what keeps these hybrids going.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 05:55 AM

permitted drugs 
Some of the drugs allowed in Canada meat production-I suspect monitoring is not rigid, given movement towards voluntary compliance.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 05:56 AM

All this is so very sad isn't it Keith? Even if one has little compassion for the poor creatures (and I think most people do care) one could at least consider the danger to ones health of consuming such meat. I'm willing to pay a bit more and stretch my budget in order to buy organic wherever possible. You should see our neighbour's hens - beautiful great things with glorious plumage, sitting in the sunshine or scratching about. It's obvious that's the natural and kind way to raise poultry.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 06:20 AM

Can't see my personal page clicky so here is one for Q. Pics of the Calgary skyline.

http://news.buzzbuzzhome.com/2014/01/historic-calgary-skyline.html

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 07:20 PM

arsenic in meat 

What was interesting is (my understanding is) the chemical company withdrew the drug a couple of years before the USA FDA acted (I suspect from fear of future law suits). But, continued to sell it tp producers in other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 01:46 AM

Chicken of the S.E.A.?

Tastes like tuna.

(Somebody had to do it. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 06:50 AM

Good one, Don!

The reason I couldn't find where the Pinty's chicken came from? It's hidden right on the front of the box in large thin print directly under the name... not on the bottom of the front or back or sides where it usually is located. I shall voice my disapproval forthwith as I see no need for Canada to be importing poultry.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 01:36 AM

Thanks for that clear, concise, and rather disturbing account on poultry farming.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 01:02 PM

The demand for poultry (chickens and turkeys, at any rate) are so great that intensive, or battery production have become almost mandatory.
So-called organic chickens in the U. S. and Canada may be confined except for a couple of hours in movable enclosures and still qualify for the label.

Gnu, we also avoid shellfish (prawns, "shrimp") from SE Asia. The markets are full of them, frozen.
These prawns are raised in the rice fields when the fields are flooded; thus rice and shellfish are produced from the same land. Any material added to promote the one can be incorporated into the other.

In my supermarket, there is a separate frozen section where prawns raised in North America are kept. The price is a multiple of that for the Asian, so we eat shellfish only very occasionally.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 02:23 PM

I tried Asian shrimp years ago. Like cardboard compared to local. I can buy shrimp (small) caught off the shores of NB that taste great but I buy ONE brand from Caraquet, NB that is cooked in "lobster juice". ME ZON ME ZON she's some shockin good! My clam chowder with local bar clams ($$$), shrimp, haddock, etc... beyond heaven. Costs me about $3 a bowl but it's a once in a while treat that can't be beat. At Xmas, I throw in local lobster and scallops (I lightly fry the scallops fist).

No way I shall eat anything from the Pacific Ocean until Fuckedupshima gets sorted. Maybe I am wrong but that's MY deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 02:33 PM

Gnu, being inland, we don't get the good seafood that you find on the East coast.

If you look at the fish distribution and the ocean currents, the seafood from the West Coast is unaffected by the Japanese debacle.
We do get good Alaskan/B.C. salmon, but oysters are poor compared with East coast varieties.
Clams here come from the East, expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 03:52 PM

Interesting information on the Fukushima release and the Pacific can bde found by looking around the sites below. My assessment is levels are low, as dillution is high.


dailykos 

fukushima 

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 04:03 PM

Q... I saw a news report (can't recall) that said the tuna landed off CA are all testing poorly for radiation. They feed off Japan and migrate to warm waters in the winter. More immediately troubling is the finding of toxic chemicals in Gulf shellfish which is making people ill down there. Seems the oil dispersants used are the source. The $20B Obama "settled on" with BP ain't gonna matter much to those in harm's way.

Now... can we believe everything we read? Of course not! But, I have issued a personal moratorium to myself on anything from Left Coast waters. Also, I just included Right Coast farmed Atlanic Salmon after watching a video made in BC. Hmmmm... I wonder if I can find the link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6__DCFi7wQ

Now, there are a number of links on this subject but that one gripped my heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicken from SE Asia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 11:27 AM

Farming fish has to come, the seas cannot supply the increasing demand.

But the industry is still in its infancy (except for European clams, some oysters, maybe a few other successes).
I don't think the fish are completely safe; don't know the food and additives, etc.

Gnu, I am wary of the farmed salmon as well. Some farmed catfish but haven't seen them in markets here.