BS: Starting a massive hoax

Subject: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 May 14 - 02:51 PM

We were discussing the panic started by Orson Wells and his "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast. The talk got around as to whether that could ever be duplicated on that big of a scale in todays world. We were pretty evenly split. Some said that because of the internet it would be a lot easier to check the facts and determine that a hoax was being played. Others said that because of the internet that people were even more gullible and that it would not be difficult to pull it off at all. As we remembered the facts the Halloween panic lasted just a few hours before folks figured it out.

Myself - I'm in the middle on this one. There are times when I believe that you can convince people of anything if they just see it on their monitor. But I'd like to think that people are more sophisticated now. Not all of my extended family of course. But people in general.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:05 PM

Look no further than Mudcat.

We have those trying to convince us only finger picking is folk guitar, that vegetarian black pudding is an acceptable alternative, that WW1 soldiers were well led......

On a serious note, religion hasn't suffered despite the internet, education and general increasing sophistication.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:10 PM

I have already done it...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Musket the apocalypse
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:23 PM

I Suppose as comet x253 gets closer, there will be those who will still question the trajectory.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:31 PM

I'd like to think that people are more sophisticated now.

Some hope.

Consider the people that think the BS Fox "News"(sic)puts out is true, or Karl Rove or "The Freedom Foundation" &etc &etc.

Remember that 24%+ of the U.S. public think global climate change is a hoax.

Then there's the hoards of "Creationists" who deny evolution.

And the number that still think Iraq had WMD's.

Etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Bill D
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:51 PM

The internet & mass media serve to allow the religious wing-nuts & conspiracy folk to find each other more easily and thus to reinforce each other.

The overall tendency in most 1st world countries is toward educated, 'saner' beliefs & comprehension. In the US, polls show fewer accepting fundamentalist religious beliefs and more young people moving away from religion in general ...... however.. (always a however).. because it IS easier for the hoaxers and crazies to find each other, it is easier for them to get attention and organize. Also, general population increase means the even if overall % of the populace is 'sane', the total #s of hoaxers & crazies can also increase... meaning that it is possible to LOOK larger & more competent that they actually are. (Look at how common it is to find 'street-corner shouters' in any large city. Same # of street corners, more total crazies.)

Hoaxes are also usually different than they were when Welles show aired... and remember, he didn't intend it to BE a hoax of those proportions. No one had any idea millions would take it so seriously.

Now, real hoaxes are often just clever Ponzi schemes and land sales.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,#
Date: 19 May 14 - 06:02 PM

Well, the hoax is off to a good start. There was NO widespread panic when War of the Worlds was broadcast.

Google

war of the worlds panic myth

Take your pick.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 May 14 - 06:54 PM

Of course, the internet itself hasn't destroyed the art of conversation. Just the stupid way in which some people use it to stifle a good chat.

The real religion these days is google. It's adherents invoke it at every turn.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:17 PM

A fact has become, as it always was, whatever you want it to be. Who can be bothered to check? Or even know HOW to check it?

"Dihydrogen oxide has killed more people than all wars combined."

"Adolph Hitler had the entire population of Germany under his spell."

"Rockets cannot work in space because there is nothing for the thrust to push against."

"Taxes were never raised during the Reagan Administration."

"Other than the Normans, no hostile force has ever successfully landed on British soil."

Five flat statements. Which are true?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Bill D
Date: 19 May 14 - 08:12 PM

"...the hoax is off to a good start. There was NO widespread panic when War of the Worlds was broadcast."

Perhaps not... there was some consternation IN New Jersey. Many did wonder if the broadcast was 'real', but didn't "panic" and then the program ended.

So.. what's the difference between a real hoax and a rumor or an Urban Myth?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 May 14 - 01:33 AM

"Dihydrogen oxide has killed more people than all wars combined." Rap

I think the opposite is more likely true.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 May 14 - 01:35 AM

To put it more clearly: the lack of it is more likely true.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 May 14 - 03:05 AM

On 1st April every year, some newspapers run an April Fool's article, and apparently it fools quite a few people. I remember one recently showing the Queen going into a betting shop in Windsor with two corgies. (A lookalike of course) The 'spaghetti trees' spoof on TV years ago was believed, but even nowadays people can be taken in. The sad thing is that as people become more sceptical and wary, they're less prepared to get involved in street situations. I watched a prog experiment where two little girls were put in a shopping mall (mum watched nearby for safety) and cried convincingly. Over a hundred passers-by ignored them completely, and only one elderly lady approached to see what she could do. If folk become more savvy, they also become more hard and cynical.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 20 May 14 - 04:17 AM

I doubt whether anyone knows how many people have been killed by all wars combined - unless there really IS an all-knowing God, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 May 14 - 04:23 AM

There is only one statistic that can be reliably believed.

The mortality rate is 100%.

Anything else is gravy.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Teribus
Date: 20 May 14 - 04:36 AM

"Dihydrogen oxide has killed more people than all wars combined." – True they are talking about water, and I disagree Ebbie dirty or contaminated water has killed more, and continues to kill more, people than are killed by lack of water.

"Adolph Hitler had the entire population of Germany under his spell." - Untrue

"Rockets cannot work in space because there is nothing for the thrust to push against." - Untrue - no such thing as "zero gravity" not even in space.

"Taxes were never raised during the Reagan Administration." - Qualified True

"Other than the Normans, no hostile force has ever successfully landed on British soil." - Untrue

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:14 AM

"Other than the Normans, no hostile force has ever successfully landed on British soil."

Was it Britain when the Normans conquered? If so then, surely we need to include Saxons, Vikings and Romans! If the concept of British soil is to include the Channel Islands, what about the German invasion during WW2? Was the takeover of the Monarchy by William of Orange considered an invasion?

Like so many other things, it all depends :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Musket
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:16 AM

is there a name for people who can't resist answering rhetorical questions?

Rather amusing really...

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Musket
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:28 AM

Here Dave, you can add the GIs as landing, if friendly fire is hostile....

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Teribus
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:56 AM

Off the top of my head being unable to check at the moment but I think it was Niall Ferguson, the Historian, who put the number of successful invasions since the Norman Conquest at nine. Some others say three and the highest number that I have ever heard was seventy-three - the latter being true only if you take as the metric the simple achievement as being "a hostile force successfully landing on British soil" but not really doing anything about having done so in the long term (loads of raids, which had little or no impact)

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Musket
Date: 20 May 14 - 08:54 AM

The Geermans landed in 1966. But Field Marshall Ramsey saw them off. General Hurst had his finest hour whilst Brigadier Charlton executed a pincer movement on their left flank.

Oh yes. We got the cane out of the cupboard and gave them a damned good thrashing what?

Just a clarification on the rocket thrust answer above, saying it is because there is no such thing as no gravity.   Considering thrust would be the same regardless of proximity to an object with mass (or gravity) the reason isn't that. Newton's third law of motion says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hence whether you are in deep space or within a solar system, you have thrust.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 May 14 - 09:44 AM

is there a name for people who can't resist answering rhetorical questions?

Yebbut, what's the point of rhetorical question...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Jon Heslop
Date: 20 May 14 - 09:56 AM

Think of all the hoaxes that have succeeded in the UK over the last 5 years, eg.

"We're all in this together."

"There will be a referendum over EU membership."

"No increase in student fees"

etc.

Works every time!

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Bill D
Date: 20 May 14 - 11:37 AM

Are there too many rhetorical questions used as leaders to articles?


Here's something close to a genuine hoax..
Red Wine Compound Not Linked to Longer or Healthier Life

Seems one of the researchers falsified data.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 May 14 - 12:56 PM

"Newton's third law of motion says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Exactly, Musket! What's gravity got to do with it, Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 14 - 01:40 PM

Politics, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 May 14 - 04:53 PM

"So.. what's the difference between a real hoax and a rumor or an Urban Myth?"

Beats me. Three pieces of bullshit for the price of one?

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:20 PM

There will be a referendum to decide whether we can afford to look after people , provide healthcare , have jobs , influence our own future and not be a third world country. (!)

The biggest hoax is that stupidity actually might be allowed to say whether we remain in Europe or not.

Democracy always was overrated. Or at least education seems to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Bill D
Date: 20 May 14 - 05:51 PM

"Democracy always was overrated."

Oh, indeed.... only enlightened despotism makes any real sense. Now, if we could only figure out how to enlighten any despots....

Until then, I'll churn along trying to herd cats elected representatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Teribus
Date: 21 May 14 - 03:15 AM

" Considering thrust would be the same regardless of proximity to an object with mass (or gravity) the reason isn't that. Newton's third law of motion says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hence whether you are in deep space or within a solar system, you have thrust."

Perfectly correct Musket.

"What's gravity got to do with it, Teribus?" - Shimrod

Nothing apart from the starting point of those arguing the point upon which the myth is based, the myth being:

""Rockets cannot work in space because there is nothing for the thrust to push against."

As there is no gravity in space - but that statement is itself incorrect - there is no such thing as "zero gravity" and that is what I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Teribus
Date: 21 May 14 - 03:31 AM

"There will be a referendum to decide whether we can afford to look after people , provide healthcare , have jobs , influence our own future and not be a third world country. (!)"

Really? When was that announced then? On what date will it be held?

"The biggest hoax is that stupidity actually might be allowed to say whether we remain in Europe or not."

Wasn't this promised before?

As for:

"Democracy always was overrated."

Winston Churchill in the House of Commons on the 11th November 1947 came out with the following:

"Many forms of Gov­ern­ment have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pre­tends that democ­racy is per­fect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democ­racy is the worst form of Gov­ern­ment except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Musket
Date: 21 May 14 - 05:10 AM

Yeah but I was talking about Musket and his quotes. Unlike some here, I don't quote others or cut and paste others as a matter of course. If they want to post, should they be alive, let them. I post my views. Or am I missing something here?

I never mentioned Churchill, (I tend to when putting Col Blimp and his cohorts right about Europe and how the Conservative party is demonstrably the most pro Europe party in history, with Churchill and Heath. To my knowledge, the only UK leader who has proposed a United States of Europe was Churchill. A bridge too far for me, but I digress. I am concerned with the trade, which pays for the benefits of those who follow UKIP.)

There will be a referendum. Newspapers need the advertising revenue, and both parties will promise one in order to get grunts to vote for them. The conservatives have actually promised one and Labour will have to in order to get a few grunts onside. Despite my disappointment with the Lib Dems, abandoning key planks of their manifesto in order to remain in power, I hope that whichever party wins, they still need a leg & co for a coalition so the vote gets shelved. (As we see now, a coalition has no manifesto promises...)

Look at Scotland, there are a shocking number of lemmings for politicians to fawn over. Despite my usual optimism in people, the shallow retards we call today's politicians are on a dangerous path.

The hoax is that the establishment will fall for it....

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 14 - 07:48 AM

And there I was thinking Fox's Book of Martyrs was an instruction book on how to enlighten despots. First build a pyre...

Subject: RE: BS: Starting a massive hoax
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 May 14 - 09:36 PM

As to "Other than the Normans......," what about the Romans a couple of thousand years ago?

I heard the "War of the Worlds" broadcast. My family normally listened to Welles's show on Sunday evenings because he did some pretty interesting stuff. I was seven years old at the time.

I was into the Buck Rogers comic strip, and he (Buck) was dealing with Martian "tigermen" at the time. To me, Welles's show was just a different take on a familiar story, and I lapped it up. But it was Orson Welles just doing his thing. No big deal.

But when the morning papers arrived on Monday, they featured headlines and front page stories about Welles's show causing widespread panic in a number of places around the country. But nowhere near as widespread as later stories would have you believe. The fish was big, all right, but not a whale by any means. It was mostly the press that made a big deal of it.

The show consisted of intervals of music, interrupted by "special news bulletins" and apparently there were a lot of people who didn't realize this was a dramatic spin-off of H. G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" and took it for real. They got sucked in!

There was, indeed, a notable amount of panic in various places around the country, but nowhere near the nationwide panic that the legend would have you believe.

Don Firth