BS: Very hard things to do

Subject: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:43 PM

1) To refrain from engaging in a battle of wits with the obviously unarmed.
1a) Properly identifying the unarmed

2) To know how to do something.. and to watch someone doing it wrong, and to refrain from comment.
2a)Being sure they are doing it wrong, and not just differently than you.

3)Being able to separate your rationality from your personality. (perhaps one of the hardest) ("if the shoe fits...")

4)Being able to clearly understand and explain your opponent's point of view before criticizing and/or debating him.
4a)Making the effort to even bother with understanding him.


Of course there are other difficult things... but you see where my mind was today.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:56 PM

I have trouble with all these things, Bill D. It's an excellent and thought-provoking list. Remaining unprovoked in the face of fierce attack (justified or not) is hard. Everyone has a snapping point, but some explode more quickly than others. And as you say, assessing the battle-worthiness of an opponent isn't easy either. Is one being patronising by ignoring the barbs, or should one engage and be more honest and up-front? Patience, common sense and respect are perhaps good watchwords. But in spite of my age, I know I still have oodles to learn (and not much time left to learn it!) Mudcat lately has demonstrated that all too clearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:58 PM

No, I don't. Could you clarify it please? I don't know why you keep asking me to...

Oh. Yes. I see. Thanks. I'll toddle off and mindlessly watch football now. Sorry about that. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:06 PM

Mudcat, Eliza? Did I mention Mudcat? *giggle*\

Football... ah yes... I'll watch the synopses later. We have a MUSIC party tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:13 PM

My hubby is engrossed in the match in the study. He has his nose about two inches from the screen and is shouting at the players in Malinke. Good job they can't hear him. Enjoy your music party Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:23 PM

""2. To know how to do something.. and to watch someone doing it wrong, and to refrain from comment.
2a)Being sure they are doing it wrong, and not just differently than you.""

I found 2 and 2 a very easy to do as I got older and at tasked that I gained more experience. I learned that good lessons often results from doing something wrong, people dont normally appreciate intervention (unless they ask for it) and frequently another way of doing it is often found by greenhorns. I always saw many roads to the same result. If they screw up, no one benefits from you saying, "I did not think that would work".

When working with greenhorns, I first explain something like..."there are many routes to the same result. If I am in the lead, I probably will do if the way that fits best for me, and you can help. If you are in tge lead, you can pick whst best works for me, and I will help.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:24 PM

Wow.....you have a "study"   :0o

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:31 PM

Juggling live eels.

Bit like being a mod on Mudcat :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:57 PM

Yes akenaton. It's really the third bedroom, but we don't need it for that so we turned it into a study. All our books are on the shelves, and my craft and knitting stuff, and loads of jigsaw puzzles. And a big armchair and second TV for himself to watch the footie. It's a nice den, very snug and cosy. Why are you amazed? Our house is really, really tiny; I ain't posh yer know!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:01 PM

Belly-dancing

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:03 PM

We know you may find it difficult, and may prefer to "lurk, and then spurt", Ake.
But, you may find it personally rewarding to think a bit before you post.

Most of us have patience with greenhorns and prefer posts with actual content. Just a suggestion, btw...not an insult, nor am I trying to knock you off your perch-roost.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM

Hi Eliza...nobody round here has a "study", just kitchen, living room, bathroom and assorted bedrooms, only the really posh folks have separate dining rooms.....only joking, I'm sure you're as down to earth as we are. A.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:12 PM

LOL GUEST, belly-dancing!! I have to confess that my belly knows how to do that with no tuition at all. In fact it wobbles most of the time (unless I'm asleep)
As an old teacher, I've seen the truth in what Ed says about 'greenhorns' dozens of times. My young pupils were often ahead of me in innovation and ideas. And a child learns more thoroughly if he's come to a conclusion by himself, rather than have it imposed upon him.
My poor husband knew absolutely nothing at first about daily life here in UK, and I had to practically sellotape my mouth over to stop being an interfering, bossy and managing female. But now, I'm delighted to let him lead, and I depend on him for major decisions and sensible advice. He's streets ahead of me now in every way.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:21 PM

Thanks Ake, now that makes more sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:27 PM

Sorry about the mixed upvstatement above. I still have a few issues with keyboarding with my very sensitive android tablet (now 6 months old).

Below is an amended text that makes more sense.

""When working with greenhorns, I first explain something like..."there are many routes to the same result. If I am in the lead, I probably will do it the way that fits best for me, and you can help. If you are in the lead, you can pick what best works for you, and I will help.""

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:29 PM

We eat on our laps instead of at a table. We're dead common. I wasn't at all worried by your 'study' query, akenaton, as people call a room like that by different names, 'den' 'study' 'snug'. Bungalows are handy like that; the rooms all on the same level can be anything you like.
There are loud cries coming from him now, through the door. Has there been another goal or what?
Ah, Brazil have scored again, and it's 2-0.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:03 PM

Ed, I'm not interested in you or your opinion of me.
It's room 101 for you I'm afraid.... :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:19 PM

I call my office my lair. "Den" is too pussy for a Wildebeest. >;-)

As for the football, what a great day of football! I called both and made coin. As for yelling at the TV, Eliza, I would give your man a run for his money in that department as I don't just watch sports... I get personal. Some find it odd but those who have played sports at a high level take it very... well... we shout at a TV... at a TV! That demonstrates our passions. Those that don't? Too bad for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:23 PM

Putting toothpaste back in the tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:34 PM

Thanks for taking me out of your domain, Ake..if it us real talk this time..(I removed you from mine some time ago, as I have no room in my world for what you represent..and only had the need to adress you at your calling). It's is pleasure not knowing you.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 09:11 PM

Ed T., I really liked the first version you posted!

The "corrected" version seemed rather humdrum.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 10:25 PM

"Putting toothpaste back in the tube"

I have done that... not an entire tubes worth, of course... but small amounts of 'over-squeeze'.
It's much easier than 'understanding ones opponent' and working out whether to engage him...

(Once, many years ago, I had a study/den, with a full desk and bookcases... walking distance from my university. I still don't know how we managed to acquire that place. It seems like it should have cost 2-3 times what we agreed to pay. Only lived there 3 1/2 years. I miss it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 11:13 PM

Ed... that is hard. It's like ignoring a skeeter that ya can't quite swat.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:56 AM

No need to swat. Akenaton doesn't represent anything or anyone. He uses terms such as "us" because in his world, he thinks people are like him.

There are a few as it happens. But they are the little people who are irrelevant and fading with time. Sad, bitter, twisted and rather pathetic.

It is hard to ignore them though. Silence is seen as acceptance in their low intellect way of thinking. You see, they generally like to blame others for their own failures and frustrations.

Writing this in my study by the way. It says study on the original plans from 1863 and I use it for such a purpose. Akenaton's idea of "normal" people means something different I suppose. I know his sort. They feel you have to be jealous of others and consider yourself hard done by on order to have a view. It must hurt to see hard graft and labour result in success.

Oh, and one of the nicest homes in his locale has a study too, and a successful couple living in it. In true stereotypical terms, they have excellent soft furnishings and make a bloody good soufflé. They also tell everybody that I referred to them as bowling from the pavilion end, a badge they wear with pride apparently. Glad to be of service.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:45 AM

'Lair' is a good word, gnu. I've noticed most men shout at the TV when watching sport. My old dad used to do it when watching rugby. It makes me smile, I never mind at all. My hubby works hard and it's good for him to let off steam, sitting there with his ice-cream and a huge spoon. (He loves ice-cream as much as I love crumpets. Healthy pair aren't we?) He's off to Ivory Coast soon for 5 weeks, to visit his family. Staying here worrying about him will be a very hard thing to do. Very hard. But I'm off to Hairy-leg Land (Scotland) to stay with my sister for a few days. Och aye the noo!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM

I'm now the proud owner of an office/study! Until recently it was a spare bedroom stuffed full of books and junk. I got rid of the books and junk (a very, very hard thing to do!) and got the room decorated and carpeted. Now it contains my CD collection and just a few books - mainly my botanical field guides. There's also a Microsoft Surface Pro connected to a 23 inch monitor and a wireless keyboard and mouse (to my great surprise, all of this actually works!). I'm particularly proud of a swivelly office chair that I got from a charity shop for a tenner. In addition, all of my household files are in a neat little filing cabinet. I must say, I'm feeling very smug at the moment and keep going in there ... mainly to swivel on the swivelly chair ... I'm sure I'll eventually do lots of studying though!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:14 AM

Oh Shimrod, I'd love a swivelly chair! What a good idea! We have a filing cabinet in the study. Isn't it ghastly how merely running a house and car need such an inordinate quantity of paperwork? It's like running a huge business. I often joke that I need a secretary. However did we manage years ago? I can't remember having files and folders in the house like this. My parents certainly didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 05:55 AM

I agree with you, Eliza, the amount of paperwork is ridiculous! The worst is the papers connected with financial things like ISAs. They send you bushels and bushels of 'bumph' - none of which makes any sense whatsoever. And each 'investment' (which, at the end of the day, yields virtually nothing) has a fancy title, and a million digit code number, and matching up the bits of paper is a nightmare!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:04 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one, Shimrod. We bought an electric shredder. (In our old house we had a log fire, and could burn stuff even in summer by just lighting it in the grate) That shredder seems to shred morning noon and night. As you say, mostly bumph. And none of it strictly necessary. I do as much as I can online, but still the avalanche of paperwork arrives. I've got into the habit of going through the large filing cabinet every two months and shredding as much as possible. If not, you can hardly close the drawers. Our recycle bin is awash with shredded blasted paper. Totally mad!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:24 AM

And then, of course, there's the added worry. Do sinister crooks match the shreds together so that they can steal your identity and do wicked deeds in your name?!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:44 AM

Don't they recycle paper where you are? All our stuff just goes in the recycling bin along with the old newspapers, & gets carried away every other Monday. If no such service where you are, there must be a recycling centre somewhere near, surely?

Anything blank on one side I recycle myself by printing out online crosswords etc on the reverse; then it gets recycled.

If any sinister crooks then wish to trawl thru it looking for info to blackmail me ["Pay up, or I'll tell the world you couldn't get the Speccie crossword 17dn last week"], then they can just carry on at their leisure. & I hope it keeps fine for them!.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:56 AM

Regarding swivelly chairs the hardest thing for me to do is to not have a sneaky childish spin on it, which is very difficult in the serious workplace - well until the rest go to lunch!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM

I am not above wearing a head torch and spinning on my swivel chair declaring to the dog that I am a lighthouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:13 AM

Yes, MtheGM, they do re-cycle paper where I am. But I shred anything with my name, address and other personal details on it. Presumably, and hopefully, any sinister crooks would prefer the easy option of unshredded paper for their identity stealing purposes (probably not blackmail).

Must get a dog and a head-torch, Musket!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:50 AM

Our council recycles paper but the instructions specify that it must NOT be shredded.

I just tear out the bits with my name and address on, and put them in the compost bin for the slugs and snails to eat.

The really annoying letters are from companies trying to persuade me to enter prize draws, who feel it necessary to address me by name up to a dozen times per page, as if they think I will be so excited at the prospect of winning their prize that I will keep forgetting who I am.

I believe this stems from an American PR guru who declared that the sweetest sound anyone ever hears is the sound of their own name, and therefore that the more often you address someone by name, the more they will like you. This is not always true - one doesn't usually get to choose one's name. In my case I am stuck with the name of an ex-husband, which I retained because it was more convenient to have the same name as my children, but which I really, REALLY dislike. The more these people use my name, the less likely I am to do what they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 09:14 AM

I agree topsie. My Christian name is alright, but no-one has called me by that for over sixty years. I'm known by my nickname, which is totally different. So when dentists (aaaaaghh!), opticians, doctors, phone-banking people etc use my 'first name' ( a bit of a cheek anyway, since we aren't bosom pals) I don't recognise it as 'me' at all. I had 'sedation' for a colonoscopy recently, and came round with a nice nurse shaking me and saying this strange woman's name over and over. Very bizarre.
To try and stay on thread, a very, very hard thing to do is to steel oneself to actually submit at the dentist's and sit in his sinister chair. My legs are heading for the door while my mind is trying to persuade me to sit down. Same for the colonoscopy. I had to lie voluntarily on a bed, surrounded by six (yes, six!) strong-looking nurses waiting to grab my limbs, while the sedation was administered. It was so hard to conquer my terror and stay put without punching an unfortunate nurse on the nose and making my escape! Those are hard things to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 10:19 AM

You make an interesting point Eliza. When my step father was being revived by two nurses who thought they were losing him ( he did die a few hours later) I came onto the ward to hear them calling a name I actually didn't know he had, and my mother quietly, almost to herself, saying what his name was as one he would recognise. (We knew him as Arch, his real name was Arthur but I didn't know that.)

I am rather pleased to see that hospital records as well as care and nursing homes are usually having a "known as" box in the general details of their records. This is not universal but Care Quality Commission inspectors do question how they know what people like to be known as when assessing dignity and respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 11:19 AM

even harder thing to do for many with inquisitive, roaming minds ☺

5)Staying anywhere near the original point of a new thread once someone has glommed onto some unrelated reference.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 12:17 PM

Oh dear Bill, I certainly have glommed. I'm sorry, I'm a garrulous old thing that rambles on and on. Must stay 'on task' in future! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

I admit I am often guilty of 'glomming' - but isn't that how conversations work? Expanding ideas and offering new angles make it so much more interesting and fun than sticking rigidly to one limited topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:24 PM

I saw it as an example of what the thread is about, in action. Happy to wander really.

I picked all the gooseberries and blackcurrant today. My jam jars are busy sterilising in the oven and tomorrow I start jamming. The only time of the year when I jam without aid of guitar, fiddle or banjo.

Mind you, having retired (again) as of earlier this week, I was wondering why I had to do this on a weekend as I can do it in the week...   Off to the Grand Prix at first light tomorrow, so I shall have to debug the dog on Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:30 PM

Making jam, the Grand Prix and debugging the dog! A very interesting start to your retirement Musket! I wish you a very happy one. Kindest regards, Eliza.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

I errmm.. have never glommed, myself... pure & focused, that's me...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:39 PM

Thanks Eliza but I doubt it will last long. I tried retiring before and ended up starting a new career basically... Twelve years later I'm trying again. To be fair my first one was way too young. I sold up in a takeover and decided I didn't need to work any more. What I hadn't banked on was that I wanted to work.

Try again....

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:47 PM

A couple to help if get back to the op topic:

Eat one nut, only.
Start the day without a coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:50 PM

I think I can relate to that, Musket. (Here I go again, glomming) When I retired, I took up prison visiting, Meals on Wheels, Hospital Volunteering with WRVS, and enjoyed it all. I like to be busy. Now we still do our cleaning job at the holiday barn. I grumble like anything, but secretly enjoy it. It's my weekly work-out! My husband still works as a school cleaner. I always get up at 6am and toddle about doing stuff around the house and garden. I think hell would be doing absolutely nothing. I pray my health doesn't let me down in the future. But there's a super chap in our village aged 93. He whizzes about and is an example and encouragement to us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:06 PM

I have been retired now for 5 months, still arise at 6 am, and there are not enough hours in the day to do all the tasks that I would like to do. I have taken little relaxation time out yet....too much to get done. Maybe it will change when I get deeper into retirement..and when my wife retires in a few years.....but, maybe not?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:10 PM

It is often usually the case that when one retires, one soon wonders how he ever had time to go to work all those years.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:11 PM

I was typing while Ed was posting..so
my #6... figuring out how to cram in everything I want to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:17 PM

I reckon one doesn't retire from life, only from the job. The good thing about retirement is the removal of constraint on one's time. I was governed by the bell as a teacher, and after I left teaching I could allot my time as I wished. I immediately travelled to W Africa outside of school holiday periods, and spent longer there than I was able to before. Their dry season is during our winter, so I could escape the cold weather for quite long stretches at a time. I went everywhere to Morris events, and gardening weekends. It's bliss to be retired if you fill your time. But just sitting there moping is the way to an early grave IMO. A very hard thing to do was leaving my colleagues still toiling at the chalk face. We were such a lovely team, and it was hard to go. You say you'll keep in touch, but of course, life moves on. Many of them are now marking books in the school in the sky, bless them!