BS: at heart an american site?

Subject: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:15 AM

One of the mods has made the above remark, which I find particularly offensive.

Is she saying that non american contributons are not as valid as american ones?

If not, what exactly his her point?

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:18 AM

Who said it, and in what context? Mudcat was founded in the US and continues to be facilitated by folks from over there. Be interesting to know what proportion of contributors come from which place, these days.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:27 AM

And there was I thinking that in spite of being based in America it was "at heart" a multi-cultural multi-national site. Suddenly I no longer feel welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:35 AM

If I contribute, my contribution makes my bit at heart a Derbyshire in exile on The Isle of Axholme site... (Depending which Musket of course, it is also a Yorkshire site at times.)

I find the best way to deal with such crap is to tell them to piss off.

The fuzzie wuzzies don't like it up 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:41 AM

A few years ago, you could have been excused for thinking that Hull (UK) was the centre of the Mudcat world.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,Henry Piper of Ottery.
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:46 AM

Maybe the answer is Mudcat U.K and Mudcat U.S two separate but interrelated organs !!    Just a Thought !!

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:49 AM

I wondered how the hell they got city of culture 2017.....

I thought it was for having the country's largest Primark.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:57 AM

wow I was near Ottery St Mary this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:58 AM

I always thought it was, at heart, a music discussion board. I did not realise that it had to be defined by country, race or culture.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:01 AM

Brian -- You will find it not many posts from the end on the Cliff Richard thread. The mod concerned was SRS.

≈Michael≈

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:09 AM

depends on the day... some days it seems to be only inhabited by trolls... :(

while the founder(s) are here in the states, members are from all over.... and it is not always clear just where they are located, which can be a bit confusing given the differences in jargon and slang.

so... if the remark only came from a single source... ignore it if you want... they got their say and you can give it the value you think it deserves. some of the most helpful folks for me have come from across the pond. If it became a chorus from over here, then you'd have a valid reason to reconsider membership. But so far, we seem to be a pretty eclectic bunch.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:13 AM

Please. The Mudcat operates out of State College (a town) in Pennsylvania. Most of the volunters are American, and I'm sure almost all the monetary contributions to it come from Americans. It's governed by American law, including tax laws.

To clinch it, the fish on top of the forum page is an American fish, the catfish, playing an American instrument, the banjo.

But feel free to join in. We are happy to discuss music, etc, from anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:15 AM

I thought the banjo was an African instrument?

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:32 AM

and most of the songs in the database are from the British Isles

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:33 AM

seems to me some people get easily offended.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:40 AM

Well, comments like that from a mod are out of order, the least we should expect is an apology - but looking at the track record of this person, it is unlikeley to be forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:41 AM

'But feel free to join in. We are happy to discuss music, etc, from anywhere. '

Well thank you for being so kind and welcoming. We really appreciate you feel so positive towards visitors.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:47 AM

Yep. Visitors, thats what, apparantly, we are.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:18 AM

"Yep. Visitors, thats what, apparantly, we are."

and so are we all... that's the term used - at least here- to describe going to a site... any site. visit... though it might better be termed invade when the trolls take over...

and since the www came about from the internet - funded by the US Defense Department- are we going to go on about the "web" is at heart an American site?!? well, maybe insofar as it still embraces freedom of speech... but I think it's been adopted by the world.

so.. we are all big boys and girls (I hope)- anyone who wants to keep a chip on their shoulder will do so by their own choice... I've gotten some pretty rude comments (from across the pond) that reflect someone else's obnoxiousness... I chose to ignore them and continue to visit this site. I never once expected an apology, though I did comment on the unfairness of their remark. AND THEN I LET IT DROP.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:22 AM

leeneia... "... I'm sure almost all the monetary contributions to it come from Americans."

You are terribly, terribly wrong. And, no, don't ask because it would be rude of me to explain.

As for the comment by the mod, I too would ask for context... for the post itself... if I could be arsed with this old discussion yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:31 AM

BTW... I do get curious sometimes...

Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Stilly River Sage - PM
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 09:19 PM

This is a particularly 'UK culture & issues' content thread;
we do not welcome the over intrusive antagonistic deletions and disruptions

This kind of low-brow slug fest thread is an embarrassment to the mudcat community and is, I believe, a huge part of the reason why so many serious musicians have fled. If this is "culture" then I would suggest it is a mold or fungus, it isn't contributing to the music conversation of blues and folk. And this is, at heart, an American site.

SRS
********************************************************************

The first paragraph was in italics. Seems rather correct to me.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:41 AM

well.. maybe..

If it wasn't for the second paragraph being such a blatant disingenuous misrepresentation
of the actual context and content of the specific thread in question.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:46 AM

Ironically, of course, Cliff Richard is Indian by birth! Put that in your pipe-of-peace and smoke it...

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:00 AM

any time you go to the BS thread, you are at risk... LOL

some are quite entertaining and others are very much not so... but freedom of speech keeps them active...

I have no idea how the web is treated in the UK... I'm not even 100% sure about here in the states, since Snowden...

but freedom of speech is one of our sacred cows and is often abused... there is no easy answer despite many efforts to find one.

So I'm not expecting any resolution here in this thread... just a suggestion that we all have the choice to select positive or negative actions and sometimes the best thing, really, is take a time out and cool off before reacting.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:07 AM

I think blatant, continuous discourtesy is an affront to the spirit of the place, whether it is coming from a kookaburra or a curmudgeonly limey or a Georgia cracker; it is the continuous use of rudeness that sours the air and makes exploration less a delight than it once was when humor was used more liberally than rancour. I don't care whose rancour, when it is over-used it becomes an abuse of privilege and a discourtesy to those who care about tradsitional music.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: meself
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

What a silly, childish thread.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:51 AM

Most songs in *English* ARE from the British Isles, so why be surprised if that's reflected in the Trad? I know one cannot think before becoming offended, but please try to think between getting offended and writing about it online.
Also for anybody to feel unwelcome here because of their nationality makes a lot less sense than because of their posts.

Subject: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:58 AM

*sigh*... the 'remark' could have been phrased better, perhaps...... but nothing changes the fact that this is an open site, where the discussion of folk music is the 'at heart' central theme, but where all sorts of music ... and NON-music themes appear.

To provide a metaphor, the FSGW Getaway is 'at heart' an event for members of the Greater Washington D.C. club.......... but which over the years has included friends from first other places on the East coast of the US, then from other areas, and once the WWW and Mudcat came on the scene, from all over the world- especially from the UK!
This has been MUCH to FSGWs benefit... and so has the participation of people from all over the world in Mudcat's forum.... much to Mudcat's benefit.
The UK is not the US... and because of cultural & demographic variables too complex to specify, members (and "Guests") from the UK often use the site to argue, banter,entertain, complain, tease, pontificate, elucidate, (and in certain cases, gesticulate) about topics that bewilder and bemuse and confuse we poor colonials. So what? It is STILL an open forum, and though *I*... to speak only for myself... am sometimes peeved at obscure threads & references about UK only topics... *shrug*... it ain't really a serious thing. I survive, and am often educated by them. It is also the case that some topics are **universal**, even if the specific issue IS UK related..(i.e. abuse of clergy, or taxation, or immigration.)

We can debate forever (seems like it, hmmm?) about who or what is 'driving' who or what 'away' from Mudcat, but as Yogi Berra (or Casey Stengel) is supposed to have said, "If people are gonna stay away in droves, you can't force 'em!"

...and as I've heard it said from that side of the Big Pond.. "Don't get yer knickers in a twist."

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:00 PM

the Cliff thing is difficult to explain to an American. for years we all assumed Cliff was quiet about his sexual preferences because he had become gay, and didn't want to upset his churchy mates, many of whom think all gays burn in hell, for not being as nice as they are.

the English cops activities have opened up the possibility that something more sinister lies behind his silence.

what would be the equivalent - finding out that Merle Haggard was a soviet agent, believed in socialised medicine, and went on picnics with Ted Bundy......its bad! Cliff is an icon in England.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:02 PM

Well, at least it is not Chinese owned-yet:)

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:09 PM

This all kinda puts me in an awkward position as I tend to prefer American roots, country blues, jump blues, rockabilly, etc..
to most British folk music....???

.. and f@ck knows where I'd be without the predominantly US invented electric guitar, amplifier, and fuzz box !!!???

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:16 PM

I've always taken it for granted that Mudcat is an American site, although many users are from the UK these days. As Bill says, different people use Mudcat to discuss different topics, and some will be geographically exclusive. On the kind of things that interest me, like Child Ballads, there's a shared interest, and valuable contributions come from both sides of the Atlantic.

Personally I don't believe that being allowed to post on Mudcat is one of life's inalienable rights, and I do think that, if you want to join in somewhere like this, you just accept the rules (even if you disagree with them, or wish they were enforced more or less rigorously). No-one is obliged to provide this platform, and it does seem to me as if some people are getting very worked up about what is, in the end, just a music chat room.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:27 PM

Brian - yes, almost totally agree.

The problem as I see it, is these kinds of protest threads are usually sparked off
in reaction to provocation from the 'one bad apple' amongst the mods.

More frequently recently it appears to be the same individual mod rubbing various folks up the wrong way.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:06 PM

Its a music site.

Its also got a site for discussing bollocks and bullshit.

That is international to say the least.

Mind you, I'd be happy to call it American, on the basis that two of the contributors on it are a disgrace to The UK, and I would hate Johnny Foreigner thinking we have anything in common with either of them.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:14 PM

"thinking we have anything in common with either of them."

we feel the same about any number of vocal jerks of our own... and not just on Mudcat... :D

give the whole human race a bad name... sigh

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:19 PM

Much Ado about Nothing
                  —Wm. Shakespeare

Yes, Mudcat (a fish indigenous to the lower Mississippi River, and very good eating I'm told—quite appropriate for the website because it was originally started as a blues music site) is based in Pennsylvania, but within recent years it has had contributors from the United Kingdom, Germany, Iceland, Australia, Japan, and I don't know where all else.

The physical equipment necessary to run Mudcat is in the U. S. But it's essentially an international site.

My great-grandfather on my father's side came from Scotland (actually, the Orkneys, I'm told) and my grandparents on my mother's side came from Sweden. And I live way out here on the West Coast of the U. S. But Mudcat, to all intents and purposes, is as close as my computer, which is right here in front of me.

Let us not be hypersensitively nationalistic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:56 PM

Well sciencegeek, two points. The www was a british thing, not american, and 'freedom of speech' is a bit of a hollow term when you have a overenthusiastic mod with her own ajenda.

I have always considered this to be an international forum and have no idea just why she brought nationalism into the arena.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:16 PM

Pants on fire on both counts, Silas.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:17 PM

he might have gone on on living
but he made one fatal slip
when tried to match the Ranger
with a big iron on his hip.....

at heart we're all Americans!

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:22 PM

"...no idea just why she brought nationalism into the arena."

It was a passing remark, for gosh sakes! It doesn't need a week of analysis. Ask Joe Offer about the perils of being "main moderator" and trying to say anything without it being accused of ..... almost everything!

There have been 40 threads about mods and their behavior, when most of the real problem behavior was from posters the mods were trying to cope with!

Remember the UK based site Jon Freeman created years ago in response to dares? He said, essentially: "If you weary of Mudcat, come discuss music and other stuff here!" Some did, but most stayed here....perhaps the fights were more interesting here?

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:23 PM

No, indeed SRS -- the internet is of uncertain or disputed provenance; but the branch of it called the World Wide Web, as such, in the form everyone avails themselves of it, was most certainly the invention of one man, Sir Tim Berners-Lee, born in London, June 1955, and knighted for his achievement by our Queen. About as British as all-get-out!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:23 PM

I guess my sentence was unclear... the internet was created and funded by the DOD... at one early point they owned the only computers in the system, if I'm not mistaken.   

the www came about later... using the internet as the platform. I believe it was actually an international effort. The scientific/academic community always supported free access across national borders and the DOD had allowed academic access early on. Once you let geeks play with your toys, forget about getting them back... LOL

and as I said earlier... if it's not a systemic issue across the board... well, then it's not really an issue with Mudcat per se, but rather more individualized and apparently emotional.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:31 PM

I've watched several programs about the 'founding' of the WWW by Tim Berners-Lee. He was quite an imaginative fellow. What is too bad is that 94.6218% of everyone has forgotten that 'internet' means... or should mean... something quite apart from WWW.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:41 PM

When I was on Mudcat Radio with Max, we were both very pleased that our audience was international.

Mudcat is not restricted in any way. I am sure that Max loves you all.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:59 PM

I got a good taste of how far out of date I was when I referred to a "do loop" to explain an issue to our IT guy and he had no idea what the heck I was talking about...

the original "debugging" a computer meant removing the dead bug from the guts of the machine.

in college we were cutting edge because some of our buildings had terminals connected to the mainframe... so we didn't have to write out our code onto sheets of data entry forms for the key puch operators to turn into Hollerith cards that were manually feed into the fool thing. And print out reams of computer paper... if you didn't mess up you code.

now we have cloud storage & god knows what next.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:37 PM

To clinch it, the fish on top of the forum page is an American fish, the catfish...

Afraid the Yanks can't claim the catfish- Plenty of catfish in Britain, too. Google it.

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:53 PM

And, not only in Britain:)

worldwide distribution of catfish 

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:55 PM

Perhaps a better descriptive title:

"at heart a disfunctional family site?"

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 04:01 PM

"at heart a disfunctional family site?"    :D works for me...

even accounts for the weird uncles and family skeletons...

Subject: RE: BS: at heart an american site?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 04:10 PM

Wrong points, Silas. I didn't dispute your facts, just your charges. Since most of the time you don't have a clue as to which of the half-dozen mods deleted posts or closed threads there is no sense in laying it at my door, let alone the charge of "enthusiasm." And taking an off-hand remark out of context to start a new thread battle tells me you need a hobby other than trolling at mudcat. Bill D has it right.