BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?

Subject: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:07 PM

Is it really possible that Bill Cosby was (is?) a rapist? It seems so hard to believe, I can't see it in his character at all. And he was a groundbreaking comedy icon, both in his standup routines (remember Moses asking the Lord 'what's a cubit?) and with his outstanding Cosby show- I just don't want to believe it. Can't believe it.

(and yet I remember how fond I was of OJ when he was breezily dashing across the tv screen. before he was dashing along in his Ford Bronco)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:09 PM

PS, sorry I meant to say Noah, not Moses. (from the build me an ark 'arc')

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:52 PM

Hard to say what well-known people might have done at one time. He refuses to comment... I'll just wait & see. I hope the claims prove false.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 08:37 PM

Me too. I hope it is a black lie. But it is looking less and less likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 02:00 AM

I guess I find it hard to believe, too; but I'm open to the possibility that the allegations are true. The fact that there are multiple allegations, tends to make it more credible - but sometimes accusers are motivated by the success of others.
Still, I'm tending to think the allegations are true.

When we as a society believe that a person is guilty of a horrible crime, our tendency is to view that individual as worthless, as incapable of doing anything of value. But the facts indicate otherwise. Whether the performer has committed a crime or not, may not have bearing on the quality and value of his performance. Rolf Harris was convicted of child molestation. Must I then refuse to sing his songs? I still like his songs, and I see no reason to change that opinion. I have enjoyed Bill Cosby's comedy sketches, to the point where I think many of them are brilliant. I might even say that I have found wisdom in many things Bill Cosby has said and done over the years - but yet I still believe that it is very possible that he is guilty of having committed the crime of rape many times.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:31 AM

At Stroud FM we took all Rolf Harris tracks off the playlist as soon as the news hit the streets. Precaution, well founded, even though the demise of the station pre-dated the verdict.

It is a sad truth that the brothers of fame and adulation are castigation and blackmail. Who knows which is the case here.

Martin Luther King jr received blackmail threats from the FBI/CIA over his philanderings. Who in this world is so pure of mind and body to not be concerned about our own history?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:37 AM

Intriguing! As intriguing as R L Stevenson's Strange Case of Dr Jeykll and Mr Hyde.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:56 AM

Multiple accusers and, especially, a civil suit and an out-of-court settlement in one case make it look very bad.

Supermodel Janice Dickinson (hardly an unsuccessful person) has now accused Cosby as well.

And the former Pennsylvania attorney-general, whose staff interviewed Cosby in one case, says that Cosby's responses to questioning seemed "evasive" and "untruthful." The AG said that he'd wanted to prosecute but that material evidence a year after the alleged incident was not recoverable.

That was the case eventually tried in civil court.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: bbc
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 03:27 PM

I was sorry to see this thread. I've always enjoyed Bill Cosby's humor & thought well of him. So, since I'd never heard these accusations, I went to Google. In several pages of search results, I didn't find any sources I'd consider reputable, so, for now, I am merely considering this to be rumor, which I would not spread. A man's reputation is at stake. Joe, I appreciated your comments, too!

Respectfully,

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 03:50 PM

They say everyone needs their day in court. Beyond that, we can only rely on tge evidence and our gut feelings.

I recall that in the past some famous people, and those in trust positions of trust, were accused of some bad sexual stuff. In many of those cases the voices of those abused were not reasonably heard, mainly because of the revered positions of the abuser. While it is wise not to rush to judgement, just because someone is a good entertainer does not place them above doing such bad stuff.

Related news item 

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 04:32 PM

I have always refused to be part of a lynch mob. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, says I.

Having said that, I can think of at least three past threads at Mudcat where I was decried unfit because guilt was not proven or guilt WAS proven and I stood for the rule of law. I shant make that silly assed mistake again.

I says... get the rope ready but don't make the noose until it's justified.

Justly.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 04:49 PM

""Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"" does not mean quickly ignore, or discredit those making abuse claims, merely because the accused seems to be above that sort if thing (because of their position, status, or fame). That's what happened in some of the church sexual abuse allegations, many which were many years later deemed to be founded.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:53 PM

Court of Law? It's my understanding that these episodes have occurred (or not occurred) prior to the deadline of the statute of limitations. The allegations sound legit.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 09:21 PM

guilty or innocent it is a very sad situation for all involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 11:05 PM

We seem to forget is that Cosby, in addition to being a beloved entertainer, is a major player in national politics. He's not a Republican, either. If they can destroy him, they will have gotten rid of one of the major forces that drives the black vote. We also seem to forget that accusing Black leaders of raping white women is one of the oldest tricks in the political play book. If they could put together a bunch of "Swiftboaters" to lie about Kerry, they could put together a group to tell any kind of story. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 12:02 AM

As Joe O said above, no one is without flaw. Some flaws, of course, are more damaging than others - think child molestation - and some are irredeemable, such as killing someone whether purposefully or not. I accept that and at the same time recognize the inherent value of that same individual's life.

I have admired Bill Cosby for many years and I have no doubt that I will continue to admire his talents. If it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that he not only raped women but drugged them in order to do so, that is in a separate compartment, so to speak, from the admiration I feel for his talents. But I have a problem:

Drugging and raping anybody is despicable. If it is true that Cosby not only did that but allegedly did it multiple times and with multiple women, it is hard for me to conceive of a way to forgive that. The only thing worse would be if he had done it to children.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 08:43 AM

Concerning the fourth sentence of Sim's above post, will someone help me please. Are any of the rape allegations being made by white women? The only accuser I've seen so far is certainly not white!

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 09:12 AM

Any evidence that the swiftboat veterans weren't who they claimed to be? (Namely, men from Kerry's old unit who didn't like him or his politics.)

The three Cosby accusers I've seen on TV have been white.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:41 AM

I would like to hear the evidence before I believe the very, very persistent rumors that have been around for decades...

But he *looks* guilty as all get out when asked... and not righteously indignant and falsely accused, to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:57 AM

Most folks are guilty of some stupid or bad deeds in their lifetimes..
It might not be exactly, or as criminal, as what they might be publicly accused of,
but it may be still be transgressive enough for them to be afraid of having it exposed
as a consequence of being hounded and investigated....

just saying...

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 01:17 PM

Cosby is a stabilizing influence in America's black community. He must be neutralized ahead of the Obama administration's upcoming race riots.

List of things to do:

1) Stall the Ferguson grand jury announcement until store shelves nationwide are stocked with Christmas goods,

2) Have the FBI declare daily that the Ferguson decision will mean nationwide rioting,

3) Sideline Cosby with pee pee allegations,

4) Legalize 30 million illegals with an executive order,

5) Make the Ferguson announcement and have your agents provocateurs kick off the "spontaneous" rioting.

Obama's Christmastime redistribution of wealth, using racism to illegally increase the country's population by 10%.

Worst president in history. An arch criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 03:32 PM

You didn't complete the list guest:

6) Have Bigfoot suggestively leer at a white woman.

7) Recruit Elvis to appear at an inner city 7/11 and do an impromptu "Hound Dog".

8) Spray paint "Black Power" on the side of the Loch Ness Monster.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 03:36 PM

oh and 9) Get Charles Manson to write a song about the impending race war.

Cosby bought his way out of this kind of trouble about 8-9 years ago but it looks like it finally caught up with him. Time wounds all heels.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 06:49 PM

Can you believe this HYPOCRISY?????

The evidence is not completely in on Cosby.....but the wannabe civil rights activists are dead silent when it's a black man molesting minor white girls, and raping white women.....

While the Grand Jury decision in the Ferguson, investigating whether a white officer who shot a black teen, allegedly in self defense, is NOT in yet....and the 'left' is promoting riots unless the officer is charged!

Tells ya' that mental illness might be symptomatic of politicos!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:02 PM

Considering no one has been asking for money....and many of them have been trying to get their stories heard for many many years, I think that "blackmail and attention" are less likely.

As an aside, I have a friend who managed a coffee shop in the Village. Cosby would come in and hire people from time to time. He has stories that make these seem very plausible. The man is not anything like his public persona. He's an outright scumbag.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM

""The evidence is not completely in on Cosby""

My understanding is:
Since the incidents, so far made public, happened awhile back, it is likely the statute of limitations woud protect Cosby from criminal charges (depending on the state here the incidents were alleged to have occurred, of course).

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:08 PM

Sadly the more I hear the wome . The more I tend to believe it's true. I hope I am wrong really hope I am wrong

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 08:03 PM

All though the alleged Swiftboaters accusations got a lot of covrage, the real facts which refuted them completely, were not covered very well. Here's NYT article debunking Swift Boaters and their allegations which not only exposes their lies and misrepresentations, it shows that they were actually paid to do what they did.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 09:09 PM

Thanks for the link about the Swift boaters.

I must not watch enough TV, because all I recall seeing was some members of Kerry's unit saying that he'd exaggerated the severity of his wound and that they thought he was a poor commander. More than that, they were outraged by his antiwar activities in the early '70s, while the war was still on.

Obviously they leveled more charges than that, and obviously the little I saw was edited to make it look like the accusers were a lot closer to Kerry than they really were.

More details here, seemingly reliable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 05:08 AM

From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM

""The evidence is not completely in on Cosby""...(Quoting me)

My understanding is:
Since the incidents, so far made public, happened awhile back, it is likely the statute of limitations would protect Cosby from criminal charges (depending on the state here the incidents were alleged to have occurred, of course).""

What about....."The evidence is not completely in on Cosby.....but the wannabe civil rights activists are dead silent when it's a black man molesting minor white girls, and raping white women....."

Can you imagine the uproar, by wannabe 'so-calleds' if it had been a man, white, who was a well known celebrity, who was also molesting black minor girls. and raping black women????????????????



.....and seemingly NO thought, whatsoever to the women...black or white!

As I said, before....

"Can you believe this HYPOCRISY?????"


Oh well....Psssst...Let me let you in on a secret..OK?.......Ya' think the " Right Wing War on Women" happens only when it's a convenient 'talking point'....and was just really 'made-up'.......but the real compassion was never there???

Now I'm REALLY repeating myself....

"Tells ya' that mental illness might be symptomatic of politicos!"


......No wonder they need to eradicate God...oooops I meant Love... God...oooops I meant Love...God...oooops I meant Love... Oh never mind...'Love isn't a concern of political wannabe ideologues, anyway...you wouldn't 'get it'...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 06:45 AM

"Getting it" and seeing things from a different perspective are completely different concepts, gfs. Sometimes things are just not "all that complex", nor part of a broad-based "liberal" anti-God conspiracy. One "horny" entertainer hardly is fuel for a country-wide conspiracy theory.

I detect you may have difficulty "getting" and appreciating the viewpoints of those who see some situations differently than you" do, gfs. It is easy to preach love and kindness to the "others", but more complex to put it into practice in real life and even in internet discussion. I prefer to look at life and society from a mostly a positive prespective. But, that's only my preference, and hardly anything anyone else has to do.
;)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 11:20 AM

Oh, I thought you'd finally, at least, feigned concern for the women...and as far as, "Sometimes things are just not "all that complex", nor part of a broad-based "liberal" anti-God conspiracy. One "horny" entertainer hardly is fuel for a country-wide conspiracy theory," ..neither is a white cop shooting a black man, over what it seems to be self defense!...but you guys only paint things the color that suits your immediate frame of reference....Consistency is not particularly a property of that kind of narrow thinking..... ;) back to ya'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 11:35 PM

The interesting thing about this case is that he didn't need to drug or rape the women in question. He was a huge celebrity, and they sought him out; as did many other women, no doubt. All he had to do was say "Do you wanna..." and they would have done whatever he suggested. To drug and/or rape them seems perverse.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 12:21 AM

True...however some accounts Bowman, for one, was allegedly drugged, and raped (or molested)...and she said she was 17 at the time. Either way, it was statutory rape. In her account, she was given a drink, and when she 'came to', much later, she was wearing only panties and a man's T-shirt...She claims she went to his place, because she was in line for a part in a show that he was in.

But you're right...One would think he wouldn't have has to resort to drugging her...

Still no 'outrage' that it was a black man raping a white minor, whom he felt he had to render unconscious. maybe he was hoping she's be too fucked up to remember..or report it, at the time...who knows?..but rape is rape....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 04:05 AM

"Still no 'outrage' that it was a black man raping a white minor,"

Why is a black man raping a white minor worse than a white man raping a black minor?

You amaze me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 06:34 AM

"Either way it was statutory rape" - not in this case, if press reports are correct that this is alleged to have happened in New York, where the age of consent is 17, or New Jersey, where it's 16.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 07:40 AM

Are you saying it isn't rape if the woman is over the age of consent - even if she is drugged and unconscious?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 08:00 AM

GUEST, in his/her contribution of 21 Nov to this discussion, makes a very powerful point, sight of which simply cannot be lost.The allegations, if true,portray a soul afflicted by grave perversion.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 12:10 PM

I was assuming the allegations are true. If you read the details, they're all similar, and they sound honest and not fanciful. They're just what you'd expect of a major celebrity's relations with female fans, until you get to the part about drugging and force.

He certainly would have known that wasn't necessary. He must have known it could come back to haunt him and at least cost him a lot of money, whereas just having consensual sex with them wouldn't have been any story at all unless he ran for public office.

So why? Was that the only way he could get off? Did he think the women wanted it that way? I'm surprised that none of the coverage touches on this creepy aspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 12:48 PM

Just because a person is a fan of someone, it doesn't mean they want to fuck him. Maybe it is for you, but I doubt "Hey, I really love your work, and you're SOOO cute" equals consent. Rape, AFAIK, is about power and control, not sex. Sex is the means to demonstrate perceived/desired power, but it's not the reason.

Of course, I think obsession with this case is a little creepy too.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: olddude
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 01:07 PM

On the news (whatever reason they keep going no stop) they said one of the girls that just came forward was 15 at the time. Well statute of limitation does not apply to crimes against a child. So if it is true I hope he get put in jail with bubba big dick as a cell mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 03:56 PM

Innocent until proven guilty is the bottom line.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 04:33 PM

"Criminal Cases

In New York, the statute of limitations for any kind of sexual assault (1st or 2nd degree) or molestation is 5 years. However, for sexual crimes involving children, incest, or child pornography, New York uses the same "tolling" system for criminal cases as it does for civil suits, meaning that the 5 year SOL does not begin to run until the victim reaches the age of 18.

As mentioned before, this is a highly contentious issue of legislation, and could very easily be subject to change in the near future (especially in an election year). Therefore you should talk to a New York attorney to get the most current information about what state law protections and requirements you have."

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 04:34 PM

Innocent until proven guilty is tgeinorm in a court of law (which seems a mute point, because of the statute of limitations).
However, in the court of public opinion, where his legacy lies, ???

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 05:08 PM

I'm pretty sure Ed meant "moot point". ???

The more I hear about this, the more I believe the allegations. I don't know that it matters anyway. I think he's done.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 05:26 PM

Seriously? Some of youse are readying the rope before the trial? I should not have even read this thread again. Some posts are shameful.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 05:47 PM

Yes, but Cosby does seem mute on tge allegations-a freudian slip, maybe:)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 05:50 PM

"readying the rope before the trial"

What trial- gnews to me;)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 06:11 PM

Thanks, Ed.
I think the last time he was accused of rape, he didn't comment and it just went away. All I can say is, it's a good thing I don't like Jello.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it true what they say about Bill (Cosby)?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 06:16 PM

Only seen him a couple of times on TV, but he never seemed genuine.
Got the same feeling about Mr Savile, just something not quite right.

Massive ego? Do as I like? Too famous to be touched?

The drugging seems to crop up often in crimes such as this.
Domination and control?

Echoes of the abuse of young boys by establishment figures in the media and politics, circa 1970s/80s in the UK.