BS: Tory party conference

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 06:41 AM

Hypocrite or learned by his mistakes? And there is a huge difference between attacks on a newspaper and attacks on an individual. But I thought you may have known that, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 06:44 AM

And, sorry, PFR, I did see your earlier comment but have only just realised the full significance. Yes, you are right, for anyone to get so hung up on the meaning of one word is pretty silly and very indicative of nothing better to do :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 06:51 AM

Hypocrite or learned by his mistakes

Hypocrite.
See these other examples of him.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100239857/mehdi-hasan-and-the-daily-mail-some-context/

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:21 AM

Yet another link from the past. Any recent examples of his hypocrisy in ridiculing a newspaper that would not give him a job in 2010? Any comment of personal attacks on him by a mail columnist for ridiculing a newspaper rather than a person?

In any case, it is window dressing. Yet more derailing tactics. That is certainly one thing you are good at, Keith. I will concede that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:47 AM

You crowd totally ignore the facts and figures of immigration - no threat to British jobs from immigrants - just from predatory employers and Government policy which allows them to do what they do - nowt to do with immigrants.
You ignore the advantage of free movement of employment to British people unable to find work at home - official.
Your arguments have moved very little from the 'Keep Britain White' campaigns of the 50s and 60s, except they now include Europeans.
Ironically enough, the Beeb has has just announced that the boss of M&S has mounted a stay-in campaign, claiming that the advantages of doing so are enormously important to Britain as a whole.
No time for big business,, but it kicks the Little Englander (preserve our way of life) mob right into touch.
Immigratuion is not a threat to the British people, it never has been and it never will be.
Claims that it is is the domain of ultra-right bigots
Jim Caroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:49 AM

Dave - yeah.. now I'm no military historian, but I've watched enough classic old 1950s Black & White war films
and tripe 1970s Kung Fu movies
to have learnt it's best to chose your battles wisely...

As for squabbling for days on end about just one word ?
There is one amongst us for whom the word 'Pedantic' must have been specially invented and introduced into our language.... 😜

He certainly seems to have a special need for the attention of his 'opponents',
as if to validate his own existence...???

"I argue perpetually and obsessively without end, therefore I am..." ...???

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:59 AM

For Kung Fu moves I would certainly recommend

Kung Pow - The way of the fist

Enjoy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 09:01 AM

just a further point.. underneath my sarcasm & sardonic exterior lies a caring human being.

If I actually knew Keith in real life, if he was one of the old blokes down the local pub...

[and I actually do know someone not too dissimilar - our crowd's token right winger..]

Then, there are times you'd want to keep an eye on the old fella just to make sure he's alright
and get's home safe ok...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 09:02 AM

Sorry - Got the name wrong. Enter the fist (Even better :-) )

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 09:25 AM

Totally agree with PFR's first point - little point in arguing with people who won't discuss the real issues and stick where they are most comfortable - in this case, 'Little England'
Not sure of his second point though - not sure I could sleep comfortably at the thought of snakes under the bed.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 09:57 AM

Who's "you crowd", Jim??

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 11:57 AM

ake - are you really blaming immigrants for 2 wasted generations of glaswegians? i'd say there have been several wasted generations in all the less successful parts of the uk - and all over the world. poverty, and all the problems it causes are not caused by immigration -it's capitalism.
it's very simple really. a socialist would understand it instinctively, a communist would know it, if nothing else. a liberal would want to help (a few ) immigrants while excusing the capitalists. only a racist would blame foreigners for all our problems.

big al - call me pedantic but 'i see clearly what you're saying ake. the bottom of society is very bad for poor people in england' -isnae right, pal. he was writing about the glasgow area, still in scotland!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 12:25 PM

"Totally agree with PFR's first point - little point in arguing with people who won't discuss the real issues and stick where they are most comfortable - in this case, 'Little England' "

So why do you keep arguing with KAoH then - over and over and over ad nauseam?
Thanks for proving me right - you can't stop yourself from feeding the troll.
You're as daft as he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 12:44 PM

"So why do you keep arguing with KAoH then - over and over and over ad nauseam?"
Sort of like Everest - because he's there.
Keith has been haunting this forum for as long as I've been on it - don't recall you offering too much in opposition to his extremism, his dishonesty, insulting behaviour and his excesses.
I've said it before - I would love to see some Muslims on this forum - there was one once I believe.
Over the last year or so Keith has been forced to back down and tone down his behaviour - it hasn't happened out of a sense of respect for other members of this thread, but because he and his phantom historians have become a bit of a joke thanks to those who have stood up to him (as I said - not much sign of you there).
The fact that there are those happy to continue to make immigrants, refugees and gays the butt of their prejudices indicates (I hope) that there are those who are prepared to tell it as it is.
I've mostly enjoyed and benefited from genuine discussion here, but there are occasions when that has been somewhat like trying to carry on a conversation with a fractious child in the room, and when the alternative has been to let those who wish to, "win" something and have the last word.
I personally, don't find that satisfactory.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 01:03 PM

But that's just the point, Jimbo - if you don't argue with them, if you don't interact with them, they don't 'win' anything at all! How can they 'win' a battle that doesn't exist?

You argue and argue and argue, but they never concede even one tiniest smidgeon of anything you say so, in their minds, they 'win' every time.

And frankly, I care far less about who 'wins' the constant round-and-round childish arguments you crowd persist in forcing on the forum, than I do about the thoughtful, interesting, funny, intelligent people you've driven away, and the interesting, threads you've driven the mods to close.

I don't 'offer too much in opposition to his extremism, his dishonesty, his insulting behaviour and his excesses' quite deliberately, because I believe that virtually everyone here can see precisely those things, and I refuse to lower myself to his level (and that of his few supporters). I'm not wasting my time on shit, and I'm not going to make a bloody daft kid of myself.

That's it, I'm finding myself arguing with those whose opinions I support, but whose tactics, sadly, I deplore. And I'm sad about that but, just like you, I have my own standards to maintain.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 02:01 PM

Backwoodsman, I used to respect you as a realist and a fair minded person and a canny debater, well illustrated on
THIS thread

What has happened to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 03:04 PM

they don't 'win' anything at all!
Couldn't give a toss whether they win or lose - just wnat them to go away and am prepared to allow them to humiliate themselves -
a - Until they do
or - b as a second best
Either way, the result is the same.
I really have tried to ignore him in the hope he'll go away - doesn't work - he's like a cold sore - you have to let him run his course.
Remind me - have I ever told you what or what not to post - apologies if I have - extremely bad manners - not to mention a tad undemocratic.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 03:11 PM

I really have tried to ignore him in the hope he'll go away

Yeah right, Jim. Of course you have....

Delusional? I'm not judging

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 03:33 PM

Interesting you should chose that thread. It is too long winded to summarise simply but there are some salient points. Firstly, it was about someone leaving and ake managed to turn it round to his pet subject of compulsory testing for homosexuals. Secondly, he predicted, as he does regularly, that the BS section would be closed. That was over 2 years ago. Finally, the thread was closed by the mods. Something that will inevitably happen here.

Just saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 05:14 PM

Ake, what happened to me is a bunch of cunts wrecking every thread they involve themselves in, driving decent, reasonable people away, and causing a very undesirable change in moderation policy.nwhich results in otherwise interesting threads being closed.

That's it - argue like idiots until you're all blue in the face. I'm gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 10:19 PM

i am not ultra right wing.
i am not saying that immigrants are to blame for all england's problems.

i am just pointing out that if i want a job doing. the bloke who does my odd jobs sometimes drops hs prices to tempt me to employ him when i can't really afford him.

similarly when my gig diary was empty looking i would phone up my usual clients and offer them a gig at a reduced price. and i'd do it til my diary was full.

supply and demand.

bring in a load of immigrants. you increase the supply of workers. the money employers have to pay goes down. the conditions he has to give workers get worse.

what part of that constitutes neo fascist ideology. racism. little englander-ism.

why do you find commmon sense, and simple economic facts so bloody impossible to take cognisance of?

one of the places those adventurous Irish youths used expand their horizons to was Lincolnshire where they would learn complex skills and face challenges like loading a pea viner. Bob Geldof tells of his summer in Boston in his biography.

not really worth their while any more because they've been undercut by various EU people. pity we didn't keep the Irish out originally, then they would have had to paid lincolnshire a decent rate. anyway - i suppose once the principle had been established.....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 03:37 AM

You've nailed it Al, It's a con and some here have swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 05:40 AM

I continue to be horrified by the thought that Akenhateon (so clearly here displaying his hatred of others) can think that he is in any way a socialist. And to object to a nickname that so clearly describes him is most unenglish. It seems he doesn't understand England at all. Jim clearly has the moral high ground here - and also lanced KtheA over the latter's attempt to redefine "the Guardian". Typical KtheA attempt at weaselwording.

An EU summary of freedom of movement is here - http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457

It is not a right of unrestricted immigration. It may be less restricted than the racists here would like but it is not unrestricted. I am, however, not convinced that Bob Geldof was an unalloyed asset to England, and it vaguely looks as if some of his immediate family might have agreed.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 05:53 AM

I agree with some of what you say Big Al, you are certainly correct.


"the money employers have to pay goes down. the conditions he has to give workers get worse"

However you blame immigrant workers and NOT the employer. I think you have that the wrong way round.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 07:16 AM

Richard,
It may be less restricted than the racists here would like but it is not unrestricted.

Please help us out by detailing the restrictions against EU citizens entering this country.

Some nonsense has been posted about me here.
Bwm, you liken me to your "token right winger" but I am not right wing at all.
I have asked many times, but no-one has ever produced a right wing view from me.
That is because I have none.
Jim accuses me of "extremism, his dishonesty, insulting behaviour and his excesses."
Completely false. He will find no example of any one.
Jim also says,
"Keith has been forced to back down and tone down his behaviour "

I have not changed at all!
More tosh.

Challenge what I actually post instead of personal attacks on me please.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 07:30 AM

"Challenge what I actually post instead of personal attacks on me please."


We challenge the excessive amount you post

We challenge the 'passive aggressive' antagonistic and provocative nature of what you post...


Calling you a right winger is an objective statement of fact
- from most rational perspectives of the political spectrum, apart from your own...

Some might even consider you an extreme right winger ...???

On the other hand, Genghis Khan might think your'e a bit of a wet softy... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 07:52 AM

I do not post excessively.
My posts are short.
Sometimes I have to field posts from several people, but it is not my posts that predominate.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 07:58 AM

Calling you a right winger is an objective statement of fact


I am of the centre.
I have voted for all three parties, and voted Labour under Blair.
I was briefly a member of the Green Party, otherwise no party affiliations.

I get called right wing by left wingers who have no other reply to what I say.
Can you identify a right wing view I have ever posted?
No.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 08:10 AM

I do not post excessively.

Let me see, ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED POSTS THIS YEAR ALONE. Nearly SIXTEEN THOUSAND in 15 years.

Over 500 on a subject you admit you have not read about and have no interest in.

Excessive ................. of course not.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 08:42 AM

"Can you identify a right wing view I have ever posted?"

Well from my perspective as a moderate centre to 'loony' left, with somewhat right leaning views on law 'n' order,
lifelong labour voter...

I'd say most probably, 99.9999999...% definitely.. yes..

That is if I could be bothered wasting time trawling through all your posts on a forensic search for 'evidence'...

But as it is, I've got housework to do, computers to fix, guitars that wont play themselves,
elderly mother phoning with new problems to deal with every day... etc.. etc.. etc..

Mudcat can only be allocated occasional 10 minute bursts of my attention
and I'd rather spend that time learning from wise well informed articulate posters,
or being amused by the daft jokes & flights of imagination of talented creative writers....


get the drift..... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 09:40 AM

Re number of posts on Mudcat
According to Boardreader, top authors during last week.
No1 Steve Shaw 166
No2 Guest 111
No 3 Keith A of Hertford 80

If you discount Guest on account of it being many people Keith would be number 2

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 11:08 AM

Keith, it's on the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 11:32 AM

"
I continue to be horrified by the thought that Akenhateon (so clearly here displaying his hatred of others) can think that he is in any way a socialist. And to object to a nickname that so clearly describes him is most unenglish. It seems he doesn't understand England at all"

Richard, could you please explain the above diatribe?
I have been a socialist all my life, I think Robert Tressell's book started me off, In fact many of the Mudcat membership could be straight out of "Mugsborough".... I have a little game matching them up, I won't let you into the secret of your particular character as you probably wouldn't like it very much. :0)

I see myself as Owen smiling and reasoning against ideological idiocy, sometimes getting angry, but not often, letting opponents hang themselves with their vicious anger.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 11:40 AM

Additionally, I wish you had the intelligence to be a little more specific in your charges of "hatred", continually repeating the word proves nothing ....could it be that you have no evidence of "hatred" from me and just wish to create that impression?

I have already stated that if I lived in an Eastern European "hell hole", I would also be an economic migrant.
The fault is not with the immigrants but with the "EU project"

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 01:27 PM

'However you blame immigrant workers and NOT the employer. I think you have that the wrong way round.'

its no ones fault, though maybe god's got a lot to answer for.

its the laws of supply and demand - rather like the laws of gravity.

if god had arranged it that we had we had infinite supplies of everything in England, everything would be hunky dory.

its that miserable bleeder's fault

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 01:40 PM

So, Steve has more than double my posts, and mine are very brief.

Pfr, do not pretend you could find examples if you had time.
The fact is that I have never posted a RW view and your assertion is baseless.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 01:56 PM

ake - come on, you just wrote that 2 generations of people in the glasgow area had been 'wasted' or had their lives ruined because of immigration. don't you reckon that a socialist might have looked at other reasons for this - capitalism for example?

i see a headline in the paper today that 1% of the world's population now own 50% of the world's wealth. this thread is about the tory party conference - obviously they are totally happy with this state of affairs. however, many of you folk on here would rather divert the thread onto the subject of a few thousand people crossing borders into the uk. i've nothing against thread drift but be aware it does make you look at least a bit racist. you are letting the tories define 'the problem' for you and letting them off the hook.

entirely reasonable behaviour for tory sympathisers - but please don't call yourself socialist. or liberal. or green. or decent.....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 02:10 PM

"Pfr, do not pretend you could find examples if you had time.
The fact is that I have never posted a RW view and your assertion is baseless."

...well... errr... seeing as you are so certain and dogmatic... you must be... errrmm.. right... 😏

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 02:19 PM

Achmelvich, you have completely misunderstood my post, of course unregulated immigration has not caused the plight of a huge number of young people in the UK, BUT it is hindering the resolving of their predicament......I am a life long member of the CP, until I changed my vote to SNP, but not my ideals. An independent Scotland is more likely to construct the sort of society which I favour.

While huge numbers of low paid immigrants come here, our own young people will never receive the help they need to get worthwhile satisfying jobs. Capitalism will use the cheapest form of labour available, "to hell with the countries being denuded of workers to run their own public services or build up their own economy, to hell with expensive to train UK citizens who require a house of their own, a wife and a couple of kids. Unregulated immigration can make us competitive in the global economy.....let them rot"

"Decency"?.....you have no understanding of the problem, or obviously, the meaning of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 03:05 PM

'it's heaven for poor eastern europeans but hell for young scots' i'd say poverty and lack of opportunity is hell for anyone - no matter where they are from. immigrants are doing their best to improve their lives and given a chance will do what they can to improve the areas they arrive in. i've been out of work a few times and twice moved up to aberdeenshire (from cumbria) for care jobs. i wouldn't say it was heaven but it was a beautiful area and good for my family. anyone have a problem with that?

'we need to train our own young people to run our public services rather than rely on cheaper immigrants'

our public services need to be properly financed and run, the staff trained and with secure jobs. this isn't happening, and in the care sector, never has. not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the fucked up values of our system.

the people who currently run the system are surely not 'decent'- the people who excuse or them should maybe take a closer look at the realities of the problem. it's capitalism, not people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 03:14 PM

"Pfr, do not pretend you could find examples if you had time.
The fact is that I have never posted a RW view and your assertion is baseless."

Oh btw.. it's not just lack of time - please understand, it's mostly lack of inclination...

I just don't care to get drawn into your game...

Tell you what.. here's a new one we can play.

You use your skills of empathy and imagination to pretend you are me;
and you search back through all your posts to find any possible hint or clue
that could a lead moderately extreme lefty like me [remember it's you pretending to be me]
to even remotely misinterpret your writing as indicating that you are a right winger...

Award yourself 10 points for every potential scrap of evidence, no matter how insignificant or seemingly irrelevant...
or how much you are sitting in front of your screen scratching your head with a glazed expression on your face...

right.. sounds like fun.. ????

Let's call this new game: "What could I have possibly said that makes folks think I am a right winger ???"........ 😐

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 03:18 PM

I think it is more likely, unregulated capitalism, achmelvich (Guess 03:05 PM is you?) Now, that really is unregulated and has gone completely out of control. The Tories, as you say, love it and as I said earlier their media mates are happy to create scare stories about immigration to fool people. Sadly lots are obviously still being fooled :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 03:25 PM

yes -sorry - the most recent 'guest' was me

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 05:32 PM

there was just a programm on telly about loch lomond. one of the blokes taking care of it was called David Cameron. then another chap came on - riding a horse round the lake, and his name was Roy Rogers.

perhaps you need a famous name to get a job in Scotland.

i bet they have parties where they go ,och aye! I'm Clint Eastwood...this ma friend Elvis Presley!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 04:23 AM

Pfr, I know myself.
I oppose right wing views as much as I oppose the left.
I know I have never expressed a RW view, and if I had you would I am sure remember something of it.

You are not alone in believing that any criticism of your LW dogma must be RW.
Do you not understand that there is a middle ground where I and most of the population stand?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 04:56 AM

Once again you're appealing to the majority, a well-known version of a logical fallacy. You are an unconditional supporter of the extreme right-wing regime currently endured by the unfortunate citizens of Israel. You won't hear any criticism of them and you defend or deny their most egregious wrongdoings such as the mass killings of citizens in Gaza, the theft of the best Palestinian land for settlements, the construction of an apartheid wall that divides farms and families and the 1982 massacres in Lebanon. This is a clear example of your right-wing leanings and I'm not responding to any attempt you may make to revive the Israel squabble.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 05:41 AM

Steve,

I think that you're wrong to accuse Keith of using an argumentum ad populum here.

Taking the (I think reasonable) assumption that left to right political views have a normal distribution, Keith's statement is entirely valid.

Where he stands on the continuum is irrelevant, and something I don't care to argue about.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 05:52 AM

"Do you not understand that there is a middle ground where I and most of the population stand?"

This is a constant tactic of Keith's, aligning himself with the safe mainstream masses. In fact, he uses mainstream quite a lot. His attitudes to Israel, immigration, at least one ethnic minority in this country and his defence of Tory politicians are, er, just a tiny giveaway, huh? As for left-right displaying a bell curve, well you have a big uphill struggle there, your biggest hurdle being to define your terms. I look forward with interest to hearing your more detailed take on your, er, reasonable assumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 06:37 AM

"You are not alone in believing that any criticism of your LW dogma must be RW.
Do you not understand that there is a middle ground where I and most of the population stand?"

Keith - The presumption that anyone with a different view to yours must be your 'adversarial opponent',
an ideologue with a blind adherence to extremist socialist dogma,
is a near certain indication of a right wing mindset.

Yes of course I understand there is a middle ground.
I for one have always saught a consensual non confrontational resolution to disputes.
My stance in interactions is one of self disciplined objectivity and neutrality.

I have never been a member of any political party,
and have voted Labour every time out of reasoned 'best choice' rather than habitual conformity..
[Apart from the the failed experiment of voting for Liberals in the tory safe seat where I reside
- which was rewarded with betrayal and a cynical coalition].

Yours is a so typical recognisable symptom of right wing arrogance,
to insist that you commandeer the reasonable common sense middle ground,
whilst dismissing your imagined 'enemies' as for instance "you lot" / "all you lefties" / etc..
or any variant on a theme that lefties are naive simpletons who all act and think the same....

To emphatically insist that I or anyone else who actually uses their brain & education to think for them self
is some kind of political innocent...

is... well it's rather a bit of a give away of your subordination to a dominant culture of right wing ideology.....

Now if you were only as entertaining as Alf Garnett... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 06:45 AM

Great last line there, mate! :-)