BS: Tory party conference

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:36 PM

"Every major political party in the US, Europe, and the UK, all the western media and a host of powerful lobby groups. Don't talk as if there's no-one to speak up for them, please. And one thing in common with all the groups I've mentioned is that they are predominantly right-wing."

So Steve every major political party in the US, in Europe and in the UK is predominantly right wing??? - News to me and quite few European nations with left wing governments.

Ehmmm Christmas looking after a nations self-interest IS precisely what the job of any government is.

Raggy had a look through both those "links" for the Professor - pity that you didn't - the worst examples shown were all American. The strong antipathy towards Irish immigrants in the USA is the reason that "St Patrick's Day" as we know it today came into being.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:43 PM

" GUEST,Raggytash - 26 Oct 15 - 01:10 PM"

Ah, the razor sharp wit, the insightful remarks and witty observations, the cut and thrust of intelligent conversation and debate - your amazing lack of skill in any of those qualities is beautifully captured in that single post of yours Raggy - By the way it is you who should go and do some reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:47 PM

Hello Teribus, have you learnt to read a compass yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:47 PM

My prediction - not long before this one gets shut down - well done boys you've made this site such a wonderful place to visit - NOT.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:53 PM

It is "learned" Raggy and apparently I read one a damned sight better than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 01:57 PM

In your dreams

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 02:06 PM

Tell me again how Cork is on the East Coast of Ireland I liked that one. Kept me amused for hours!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 02:19 PM

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/learnt-vs-learned

Once again Teriblunder do try to get your facts correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 02:45 PM

Funny that Teri disappears for ages and then only reappears the day after KA returns.

Just saying like...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 02:57 PM

Can you find any examples of "Irish famine refugees depicted as apes?"
Rag?
Jim?
I do not believe that there ever were any.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 03:55 PM

From Raggy's first link, under one of the cartoons -

Cartoons for magazines such as Harper's Weekly featured cartoons by Thomas Nast and depicted Irish immigrants as ape-like barbarians prone to lawlessness, laziness and drunkenness. "St. Patrick's Day, 1867...Rum, Blood, The Day We Celebrate" shows a riot with policemen and ape-like Irishmen.

Some more information here. It is not really difficult to find anything if you are prepared to look.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 10:34 PM

Keith.

I am not going to take part in your silly little games, picking individual words to try to create a invidious scenario where you can be the "winner"

I'm really not interested in attempting to have a discussion at such a puerile level when life is so short and there are so many wonderful things to discover.

I would suggest, albeit in a vain hope, that you might try to read a book about the subject. I would recommend you attempt to read Tin Pat Coogans "The Famine Plot". I read it a few weeks ago and it is fascinating and horrific at the same time.

You could also try Kathleen Villiers Tuthill book "Patient Endurance" which looks specifically at the famine on the Connemara, again a fascinating book.

........ If you be bothered to read one.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 05:18 AM

Dave, most of those were US cartoons, and I know about the issue of cartoons because I have discussed it here before.

Rag and Dave, Jim said I described "Irish famine refugees depicted as apes" as "just the humour of the time."

I questioned that famine victims have ever been depicted as such.
I still do not believe that they have.
Do you?
Why?

Jim also believes that "The Labour party's line on race is now right wing extremist,"

Do you defend that as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 05:58 AM

So, here we go again with the excuses. Cartoons depicting Irish immigrants in the USA in 1867 are nothing to do with famine refugees I suppose? Like Raggy said, silly little game. I am not partaking either if you don't mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 08:29 AM

Dave, Jim lied.
He quoted me as justifying anti Irish cartoons as "just the humour of the times.
That is a lie. I did not, and never said any such thing.
The discussion is in this thread, starting about 13th July 2013.
thread.cfm?threadid=151520

He just said the cartoons depicted famine refugees as ape like.
Such cartoons were never even discussed, so how can they be evidence of me being right wing?
Even if they exist, which has yet to be shown!

To make a case against me Jim has to lie.
None of you have yet produced a single right wing view from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 08:31 AM

Sorry.
Starting 16 Jul 13 - 06:02 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 08:50 AM

So we have now moved from I do not believe that there ever were any (cartoons depicting Irish immigrants as apes) to I never said any such thing (it was the humour of the times)

Why does that not surprise me? It's like wrestling a bucket of eels.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 09:52 AM

Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed.

That is what you are defending Dave.

I do not believe there are any cartoons depicting famine refugees as apes, but if there are I have never expressed an opinion about them.

I never said any cartoons were "just the humour of the time."
Jim has made the whole thing up.

He also made up the lie,
"Remind me how much effort you put in to claim that "no Irish Need Apply" notices didn't exist."

I never made that claim. I know they were all too real.

What exactly have I said that you object to Dave??

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 09:53 AM

I once had a bucket of eels... [Kilve beach - mid 1960s]

Bugger . does that make me right wing !!!???

how can they be evidence of me being right wing?
Even if they did exist.
None of you have yet produced a single right wing view from me....😜

slightly sexist... hmmm... ok...

slightly agist... hmm.. alright fair cop

slightly racist.. no no no no no never, how dare you...
my wife is a fanny foreigner mail order bride ..

just like the wives of many a prominent right wing jingoist,
except mine's one of the cheaper ones from across the Severn Bridge..
I could't afford one of the better types from Europe or the far east....

But that is not proof that I am right wing,
that you can make a case of or which will hold up in etc etc etc etc ...





sod it.. see how bored I am right now waiting for a courier to deliver new bargain guitar gear...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 09:58 AM

Pfr, I have never posted a right wing view, because I have none.

That is why all of you can only make the assertion, but can never produce anything in support (except more unsupported assertions.)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:09 AM

My mother had an appt with a memory clinic specialist Dr yesterday.

The diagnosis was Mixed Dementia, which explains the part of the brain which no longer functions correctly,
leading to constant frustrating obsessive circular repetition.

But the good news is there are tablets which can be taken on a 3 month protocol trail,
which can in 50% of cases arrest the decline to a healthy extent...

The Dr also suggested I'd be wise to ask to see a consultant about my memory failings,
as Dementia is now significantly on the increase amongst younger middle aged population.

Do I need to repeat this... 😐

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:12 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 05:18 AM

Dave, most of those were US cartoons, and I know about the issue of cartoons because I have discussed it here before.


From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 09:52 AM

Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed.

That is what you are defending Dave.

So, were these cartoons discussed or not? Or were they only not discussed between 05:18 and 09:52? What is it I am defending, and how? There is no evidence of me defending anything or having sex with a bucket of eels, Stop these lies at once, Sirrah!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:33 AM

That is a lie. I did not, and never said any such thing.
Yes you did Keith - you excused the cartoions in this way, to be exact
"Punch caricatured everyone like that.
In the same edition your quote came from, a few pages further on an Englishman in a top hat is a gorilla.
Of your list, only one was from Punch and not America.
The Punch one was suggesting Britain was creating Frankenstein's monster in Ireland.
Political not racist."
And
"Views held then were undoubtedly racist.
People believed in racial superiority in those days.
Not just in Britain but everywhere.
But, there was no hatred of the Irish in Britain.
At that time, the most celebrated national hero, Wellington, was Irish as were the best writers."
Excusing the British hatred of Irish people - whichever way you phrase it.
"I do not believe there are any cartoons depicting famine refugees as apes, but if there are I have never expressed an opinion about them."
You lie - you were given themse
IRISHMAN AS APE - PIG
And still supporting Orange marches
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 12:15 PM

So, were these cartoons discussed or not?

Look at the discussion Dave. (Use my link)
It was never once suggested that any cartoon depicted famine refugees as apes.

I never once dismissed any of the cartoons as just the humour of the time. As Jim has just said, I acknowledged that there was racism.

I said nothing that could remotely be construed as right wing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 12:30 PM

"I said nothing that could remotely be construed as right wing."
You described cartoons depicting the Irish apes and pigs as "not being racist" - not to a extreme right-winger such as yourself maybe.... par for the course in fact.
The Punch one was suggesting Britain was creating Frankenstein's monster in Ireland.
Political not racist.
You also claimed you didn't give an opinion and called me a liar for pointing it out.
On a thread which you have already been given, you described Irish children as having been brainwashed to hate the English - how many of your stereotypes do you want?
Jim Carrol

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 12:33 PM

I've just looked up Hertford on a political map, just for proof that it actually exists...

Not exactly situated amongst the most politically and culturally progressive constituencies of the UK.. innit...!!!???

Then again.. I live surrounded by a vast arid expanse of of blue
and I'm not completely right wing yet...

I'd better start taking the tablets.. just in case... 😨

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 12:39 PM

What the fuck is a "culturally progressive constituency"?

Sounds like something out of an Orwellian nightmare? :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:13 PM

Do you understand the word cultural ? Do you understand the word progressive ?

Work it out, it's really not that difficult.


Well not for anyone with a modicum of intelligence. It's no wonder you struggle with maps.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:16 PM

I don't need to wade through reams of your boring twaddle to know that you did discuss the cartoons, Keith. You already told us you had. You then denied you had discussed them. Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed. What does that tell us of your integrity. Not that we needed any more proof of your tortuous manipulation of the facts.

I see Nod has turned up to complete the trio...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:19 PM

"What the fuck is a "culturally progressive constituency"?"

errrmmm... poetic license... fun with sounds and words... 😜


.. and probably something with real meaning in the real world for some folks..

or is it all just imaginary...

is Keith an odd exasperating hallucination conjured up by my tortured brain......????

tablets pleases....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:53 PM

As it happens Raggytash, I do not understand either "cultural" or "progressive" in the context of a constituency.

Surely a constituency consists of all shades of opinion, including socialist and conservative?
I think perhaps PFR made a joke which went slightly astray.

BTW.....What's the point of all the insulting posts to me, I treat you with respect on this forum... Is it just that you enjoy throwing you weight about? If so, it is rather cowardly, I am not stupid, do not need to continually look up the meaning of words, and have no bother with maps.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:54 PM

Dave, we discussed Punch cartoons.
We did not discuss any cartoons that depict famine refugees as apes.
Jim made that up.

You described cartoons depicting the Irish apes and pigs as "not being racist"

I did not.
I said they were racist.
I think they were all American.

The Punch cartoon depicted Ireland as Frankenstein's monster.
Shelley's novel was very popular at the time.
The message was that Britain was creating a monster that would turn on its creator.
Not racist. Political.

My comment about how Irish history had been taught in Irish schools came from a history journal.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:58 PM

Christine Kineally.
"Accordingly, in many Irish schools, a heroic but simplistic view of Irish history emerged, a morality story replete with heroes and villains. This approach, however, was subsequently challenged by the Irish academic establishment. In the 1930s, a number of leading Irish academics—following the lead of British historians earlier in the century—set an agenda for the study of Irish history, which placed it on a more professional and scientific basis in terms of research methods and source materials. At the same time this approach also demanded the systematic revision and challenging of received wisdoms or unquestioned assumptions. What was specific to Ireland, however, was the declared mission to challenge received nationalist myths, and by implication, although less centrally, loyalist myths. Thus, at the launch of the influential Irish Historical Studies journal in 1938, the editors stated their commitment to replace 'interpretive distortions' with 'value-free history'. To a large extent, however, this debate took place within the rarefied atmosphere of academia and failed to percolate down into the schoolrooms either north or south of the border."

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 02:06 PM

Dave,
"Cartoons for magazines such as Harper's Weekly featured cartoons by Thomas Nast and depicted Irish immigrants as ape-like barbarians prone to lawlessness, laziness and drunkenness. "St. Patrick's Day, 1867...Rum, Blood, The Day We Celebrate" shows a riot with policemen and ape-like Irishmen."

Harper's Weekly was an American magazine.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 02:13 PM

Ake - I had a whole bunch of words - synonyms - jumbling about in my head...
and i quickly picked 'constituencies', as it's near enough in meaning and I liked the sound of it,
to get the thoughts typed and posted and out the way with,
so i could get back and finish watching a documentary on Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid,
before the wife gets home...

Priorities...



I think on my acoustic guitar, I should boldly print the slogan...

"This machine pisses about with pedants".... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 02:34 PM

"My comment about how Irish history had been taught in Irish schools came from a history journal."
No it did not - children being brainwashed was purely your invention.
In fact, the articles pointed out that the revisionist view of history (avoiding appointing blame to anybody) was the one that had been taught and that Kinealy's and others' views were now challenging that revisionist view
"We did not discuss any cartoons that depict famine refugees as apes."
Yes we did and you were given examples of those cartoons which you described as non-racist - sort of like claiming depictions of black men with big willies were not racist.
You have had your own statements - suggest people pull up 'The Irish Potato Blight - Cause found" thread for more of your nuggets of wisdom!!
The depiction of the Irish as a subhuman species was common WHAT ELSE WAS IT IF IT WAS NOT RACIST?
Why do you do this Keith - self-harm maybe?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 02:41 PM

Some examples of racism towards Ireland by Britain
Jim Carroll

Famine Unit II: Racism
Nebraska Department of Education

Massacres, the slave trade, and the theft of vast tracts of other people's land, have all been justified by claims of religious, cultural and racial superiority. Such myths often hide the harsh reality of exploitation and colonization.

Anti-Irish prejudice is a very old theme in English culture. The written record begins with Gerald of Wales, whose family was deeply involved in the Norman invasion of Ireland.


Anti-Irish racism
Wikipedia

Negative English attitudes to Irish culture and habits date as far back as the reign of Henry II and the Norman conquest of Ireland. In 1155 the Papacy issued the papal bull Laudabiliter which granted Henry II's request to subdue Ireland and the Irish Church.


Racism and Prejudice
Moving here

The Anthropological Review and Journal of 1866 claimed that "Gaelic man" was characterised by "his bulging jaw and lower part of the face, retreating chin and forehead, large mouth and thick lips, great distance between nose and mouth, upturned nose, prominent cheekbones, sunken eyes, projecting eyebrows, narrow elongated skull and protruding ears". This sort of "scientific" racism was not uncommon in the nineteenth century and was also directed against Jewish and African people. "Without intending offence", stated an article on the London Irish in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine of July 1901, "we would point to this common feature in the Hibernian and Negro idiosyncrasy, that a dull manhood follows upon a youth of the highest promise". This "no offence, but -" introductory remark always heralds a statement that will be offensive and is one commonly experienced by migrant groups.

Similar attitudes often lie behind anti-Irish jokes which stereotype Irish people as stupid or ridicule their accents, as in the Preston Lock-out [en dash, not em] cartoons. A survey carried out as part of Discrimination and the Irish Community in Britain by Mary Hickman and Bronwen Walter found that 70% of those surveyed found such jokes offensive and only 30% accepted them as "harmless fun". Only in 1994-95 did the Commission for Racial Equality commission this study, a move ridiculed by the Sun newspaper as "a load of codswallop". It greeted the news with a page of Irish jokes "to give the researchers a flying start".



'Nothing but the Same Old Story'
(Book review)
Amazon: UK and US

[This book] was published with support by the Greater London Council as an educational effort in the early 1980's after more than a decade of virulent anti-Irish feeling in England. [It] looks at the form of that expression and at its historical roots. Those roots span seven hundred years. Particular instances of almost genocidal behavior in different centuries are looked at not just in terms of what was done but how it was justified. Not many people realize the signifance of the expression 'the Irish race'. The Irish were, and are to some extent, considered biologically distinct from the English 'race'.


Anti-Irish quotes throughout history
Politics.ie

They live on beasts only, and live like beasts. They have not progressed at all from the habits of pastoral living. ..This is a filthy people, wallowing in vice. Of all peoples it is the least instructed in the rudiments of the faith. They do not yet pay tithes or first fruits or contract marriages. They do not avoid incest.
- Giraldus Cambrensis/Gerald of Wales, The History and Topography of Ireland, 12th Century

How godly a deed it is to overthrow so wicked a race the world may judge: for my part I think there cannot be a greater sacrifice to God.
- Edward Barkley, describing how the forces of the Earl of Essex slaughtered the entire population of Rathlin Island, Co. Antrim, 1575

I have often said, and written, it is Famine which must consume [the Irish]; our swords and other endeavours work not that speedy effect which is expected for their overthrow.
- English Viceroy Arthur Chichester writing to Elizabeth I's chief advisor, Nov. 1601

The time hath been, when they lived like Barbarians, in woods, in bogs, and in desolate places, without politic law, or civil government, neither embracing religion, law or mutual love. That which is hateful to all the world besides is only beloved and embraced by the Irish, I mean civil wars and domestic dissensions .... the Cannibals, devourers of men's flesh, do learn to be fierce amongst themselves, but the Irish, without all respect, are even more cruel to their neighbours.
- Barnaby Rich, A New Description of Ireland, 1610

All wisdom advises us to keep this [Irish] kingdom as much subordinate and dependent on England as possible; and, holding them from manufacture of wool (which unless otherwise directed, I shall by all means discourage), and then enforcing them to fetch their cloth from England, how can they depart from us without nakedness and beggary?
- Lord Stafford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in a letter to King Charles I, 1634

So ended the fairest promise that Ireland had ever known of becoming a prosperous and a happy country.
- Sir William Temple, about 1673, (the export of wool from Ireland to England was forbidden in 1660)

Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.
- Thomas Carlyle, British essayist, 1840s

...being altogether beyond the power of man, the cure had been applied by the direct stroke of an all-wise Providence in a manner as unexpected and as unthought of as it is likely to be effectual.

The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.
-Charles Trevelyan, head of administration for famine relief, 1840s

[existing policies] will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good.
- Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior

A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan.
- The Times, editorial, 1848

I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country...to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black one would not see it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours.
- Cambridge historian Charles Kingsley, letter to his wife from Ireland, 1860

A creature manifestly between the Gorilla and the Negro is to be met with in some of the lowest districts of London and Liverpool by adventurous explorers. It comes from Ireland, whence it has contrived to migrate; it belongs in fact to a tribe of Irish savages: the lowest species of Irish Yahoo. When conversing with its kind it talks a sort of gibberish. It is, moreover, a climbing animal, and may sometimes be seen ascending a ladder laden with a hod of bricks.
-Satire entitled "The Missing Link", from the British magazine Punch, 1862

This would be a grand land if only every Irishman would kill a Negro, and be hanged for it. I find this sentiment generally approved - sometimes with the qualification that they want Irish and Negroes for servants, not being able to get any other.
- British historian Edward Freeman, writing on his return from America, about 1881

...Furious fanaticism; a love of war and disorder; a hatred for order and patient industry; no accumulative habits; restless; treacherous and uncertain: look to Ireland...
As a Saxon, I abhor all dynasties, monarchies and bayonet governments, but this latter seems to be the only one suitable for the Celtic man.
-Robert Knox, anatomist, describing his views on the "Celtic character", 1850

The Celts are not among the progressive, initiative races, but among those which supply the materials rather than the impulse of history...The Persians, the Greeks, the Romans and the Teutons are the only makers of history, the only authors of advancement. ...Subjection to a people of a higher capacity for government is of itself no misfortune; and it is to most countries the condition of their political advancement.
- British historian Lord Acton, 1862

You would not confide free representative institutions to the Hottentots [savages], for instance.
- Lord Salisbury, who opposed Home Rule for Ireland, 1886

...more like squalid apes than human beings. ...unstable as water. ...only efficient military despotism [can succeed in Ireland] ...the wild Irish understand only force.
- James Anthony Froude, Professor of history, Oxford

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 02:43 PM

Not my words, Keith. It was a cut and paste from one of Raggy's links. Why do you paste it as if it was something I said I wonder? And, yes, I do know that Harper's is American. It does nothing to remove the fact that you categorically said Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed. The meaning is clear. You say you never discussed this subject when you obviously have. You are, to be kind, a manipulator of the truth. If you make a mistake you will do anything to deny it and you will twist other peoples words in an endeavor to 'win'.   

The next one is -

Dave, we discussed Punch cartoons.
We did not discuss any cartoons that depict famine refugees as apes.
Jim made that up.

You described cartoons depicting the Irish apes and pigs as "not being racist" ...

A comment, addressed directly to me, confirming that you HAD discussed cartoons and then claiming I said something that someone else had. How far do you think you can take your deceit when it is so blatant? Fortunately not everyone is taken in.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 03:10 PM

Some folks [i'm looking mainly in Keith's direction] regard themselves so seriously
they inevitably end up looking rather foolish... 😜


me.. I don't care if I act or look like a bit of a pillock at times..
life's too short and treacherous to be constantly too bothered what the old miseries think...

The wife is now home from visiting her family
and it's pizza and tripe telly until saucy bedtime...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 03:45 PM

Hey, you have given me an idea there PFR. Tripe Pizza! Not sure if it could be served with bedtime sauce though...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 05:10 PM

http://bit.ly/1GHFZXr

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:25 PM

PFR....I wasn't concerned with what you wrote and my remarks were tongue in cheek....apologies if I got up your nose.

What annoyed me was Raggytash's insulting response to MY post.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 04:18 AM

'culturally regressive constituency' -tory party conference

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:03 AM

Dave, the discussion was about British publications.
All I said about those American ones is that they were racist.
Nothing right wing from me, and I never said it was just the humour of the time.

Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed.

Jim,
No it did not - children being brainwashed was purely your invention.
Kinealy said that Irish children were taught "simplistic" version of famine history "replete with heroes and villains."
She said that in the 30s historians tried to get a more honest version taught, but it never got through to the schools.
So, generations of kids were taught a version known to be false.

That is a description of brainwashing, and it comes from Kinealy not me.
Is she right wing Jim?

you were given examples of those cartoons which you described as non-racist
Not true. I only said the Frankenstein one was not.
I said the others WERE racist. You quoted me yesterday!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:29 AM

"Jim accused me of saying something I never said, about something we never discussed."
We did and I've just supplied the conversation
"That is a description of brainwashing, and it comes from Kinealy not me."
No iyt wasn't - Kineally makes the point that revisionist historians never blamed anybody - she does, despite the fact that you inadvertently attempted to use her to back your anti-Irish case.
If she had said it, it would have been an anti-Irish slur, which you appear to be now repeating - confirming your attitude to the Irish.
Irish children were never taught to hate the British - in fact, if there is any hatred of the British in Ireland, it emanates from the six counties that remain under British rule - that is where 'the Troubles' were and are.
There has never been a manifestation of hatred from the Independent counties.
Get a grip Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:35 AM

"Jim,
No it did not - children being brainwashed was purely your invention.

"Subject: RE: BS: Irish Potato Blight- Cause found
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:13 AM
Not surprising when generations of school children have been brainwashed to believe Britain should be blamed, keeping hate alive."
WILL YOU PLEASE STOP LYING,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:37 AM

I have completely lost track of what Keith is trying to prove or disprove. Did he discuss cartoons? Yes he did. Did he then deny he discussed catoons? Yes he did. What else did he do? Not a clue. I have pointed out that he said he did discuss cartoons and then denied it. I am not interested in the sidetracks just the one verifiable fact. My job is done.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:24 AM

Dave, I asked why I am called right wing when I never express right wing views.

Jim has tried desperately to find some, and failed.

If people just respond to what I say, instead of personal attacks about my imagined political stance, we would not be here.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:40 AM

I have pointed out that he said he did discuss cartoons and then denied it. I am not interested in the sidetracks just the one verifiable fact. My job is done.

(Now held in OneNote for easy C&P)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 09:07 AM

"Jim has tried desperately to find some, and failed."
Your views on Ireland - especially on education are right-wing, verging on racism.
Your views on 'all male Pakistanis" are racist in the extreme.
Your views on immigrants on Travellers is extreme right wing.
Your insistence that only politicians are right and Human Rights organisations are not worth considering is right wing in the extreme
All this is a matter of record.
One of the problems of posting on sites like this is that what you write never goes away.
You have yet to respond to the fact that you have lied - again.
Jim Carroll