Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?

Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 06:21 PM
Bill D 26 Nov 15 - 06:59 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 07:02 PM
Bill D 26 Nov 15 - 07:05 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 07:14 PM
Paul Burke 26 Nov 15 - 07:18 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 26 Nov 15 - 07:26 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,DTM 26 Nov 15 - 07:34 PM
Bill D 26 Nov 15 - 08:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Nov 15 - 08:18 PM
Bill D 26 Nov 15 - 08:24 PM
GUEST 26 Nov 15 - 08:39 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 08:46 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 15 - 08:47 PM
Amos 26 Nov 15 - 10:27 PM
akenaton 27 Nov 15 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Nov 15 - 03:36 AM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 15 - 03:43 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 04:35 AM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM
Keith A of Hertford 27 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 05:03 AM
GUEST,# 27 Nov 15 - 05:13 AM
DMcG 27 Nov 15 - 05:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Nov 15 - 06:44 AM
Kampervan 27 Nov 15 - 09:02 AM
GUEST,HiLo 27 Nov 15 - 09:56 AM
akenaton 27 Nov 15 - 10:55 AM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 10:59 AM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,punkfolrocker 27 Nov 15 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Nov 15 - 12:06 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 15 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 27 Nov 15 - 12:14 PM
Mr Red 27 Nov 15 - 12:34 PM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 12:38 PM
Louie Roy 27 Nov 15 - 12:45 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Nov 15 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,HiLo 27 Nov 15 - 01:02 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Nov 15 - 01:22 PM
Rapparee 27 Nov 15 - 01:23 PM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,HiLo 27 Nov 15 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,HiLo 27 Nov 15 - 01:52 PM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 15 - 02:51 PM
gnu 27 Nov 15 - 04:39 PM
Kampervan 27 Nov 15 - 04:56 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 05:15 PM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 05:24 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Time stamp 27 Nov 15 - 05:50 PM
Jeri 27 Nov 15 - 06:07 PM
DMcG 27 Nov 15 - 06:16 PM
Bill D 27 Nov 15 - 07:03 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 07:19 PM
GUEST 27 Nov 15 - 07:24 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,Peter from seven stars link 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Nov 15 - 08:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Nov 15 - 09:01 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 15 - 09:33 PM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 15 - 09:49 PM
Jeri 27 Nov 15 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,Forsaken 28 Nov 15 - 02:13 AM
GUEST,Musket 28 Nov 15 - 02:41 AM
Joe Offer 28 Nov 15 - 02:47 AM
GUEST 28 Nov 15 - 02:56 AM
GUEST,Harry Forest 28 Nov 15 - 04:28 AM
MartinRyan 28 Nov 15 - 05:30 AM
DMcG 28 Nov 15 - 05:59 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Nov 15 - 07:05 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Nov 15 - 07:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Nov 15 - 10:45 AM
The Sandman 28 Nov 15 - 11:44 AM
The Sandman 28 Nov 15 - 11:46 AM
Louie Roy 28 Nov 15 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,Stim 28 Nov 15 - 12:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Nov 15 - 12:39 PM
akenaton 28 Nov 15 - 12:50 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Nov 15 - 12:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Nov 15 - 12:56 PM
akenaton 28 Nov 15 - 01:10 PM
akenaton 28 Nov 15 - 01:15 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM
Greg F. 28 Nov 15 - 01:47 PM
GUEST 28 Nov 15 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,Stim 28 Nov 15 - 02:40 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 06:21 PM

A very strange thing appears to have happened. A thread has been closed (yep, fair enough,not my gig), but, post-closure, and at the end of the actual closed thread itself, a non-moderator appears to have been allowed to have had a considerable "last word". There is even a link in that person's post-closure post. In all my years of posting to various forums, that has got to be the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Just sayin'. Is this God working in mysterious ways?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 06:59 PM

?? I see the closed thread, but the only comment at the end WAS from an official moderator. The comment only notes that he is not aware which OTHER mod did it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:02 PM

Huh? Hasn't he told us us repeatedly that he isn't a moderator any more?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:05 PM

Nope... all he has said is that he is not HEAD mod any longer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:14 PM

If you say so. Let there be truth. However, I've spoken up before about last words then closure. I think that's a rotten tactic. It brings the board into disrepute. Could do better!

The last words on that particular thread were in fact out of view, the final deletion of an argumentative post put up by someone who was reposting a nasty message that had already been deleted.
There is no way to make everyone happy. You complain when there is an explanation, and you complain when there isn't. So moderators have to play it as it lays.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:18 PM

Joe says he isn't a moderator, and has done repeatedly for a few years. However he clearly has privileged access to the MC machine. Not usually a problem; he's basically on our side. It was the British moderators who were the problem when the Cat blew up.

Max owns this Cat- he has the absolute right to do what the fuck he likes with it. For him, speech isn't free, it costs money to keep up servers, internet fees et blooming cetera. And it costs him in reputation to be responsible for what sometimes becomes a cesspit.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:26 PM

I stayed well away from that thread...
so had to do some sherlock holmesing to find out what you're on about.

imho... when Joe states he does not know which mod closed it..
well, that spotlights a problem that's always bugged me ... he should know !!!

There should be some kind of behind the scenes mechanism whereby thread closures / deletions / editing
are logged identifying the mod responsible.

At least that way mods could keep check on the activities of their team mates...
and a closer eye on any mod suspiciously veering towards the dark side...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:34 PM

I don't dispute any of that, Paul. My track record here is one of always shrugging at thread closures and deletions on the two grounds that (1) this isn't my gig, and (2), this is not real life. But I did find the red text at the end of the closed thread to be somewhat peculiar (and somewhat wrong-headed, too, but hey ho).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 07:34 PM

Are the Mods off their Rockers? ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:14 PM

"Joe says he isn't a moderator, and has done repeatedly for a few years."

No... that is not what he has said. He has said that he doesn't make the ultimate decisions on 'herding the cats' any longer- which is in line with his comment about not knowing exactly who make the decision THIS time. He had posted IN the thread a number of times, and so had an opinion that he decided to add.
He 'mostly' does research & combining music threads...etc... but he 'can' do editing and even 'can' close a thread if he is the first to see a real problem.
How do I know this? I see Joe at least once each year, and it used to be 2 or 3 times. I used to commiserate with him ... and even Max... about 'herding the cats'. I have even met a couple of other known mods at the FSGW Getaway.... and I have followed Mudcat since Nov. 1996...right after it was created.
I suspect Joe or someone may explain it all better later...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:18 PM

I never noticed the Mudcat "blowing up". When did that happen, and were there many casualties?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:24 PM

*grin* There were at least 'injured feelings' I seem to remember.

Kevin.. you were around during some of the chaotic metaphorical arm-waving... I suppose 'blowing up' is another metaphor, hmm?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:39 PM

Isn't it a coincidence that the ones who start threads complaining about free speech at Mudcat are those same obnoxious and self-righteous persons who are contemptuous and condescending toward those whose opinions they don't share. Funny that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:46 PM

I'm a sensitive sort of chap in real life, perfectly vulnerable to hurt, but I can't conceive of staying on any forum until I get hurt by the people on it. That is preposterous. Internet forums are not real life, fun though they are. If you're hurt by comments in a thread there's something wrong with you. I'm afraid I don't believe Joe Offer on this occasion. Certainly, religion was getting a pasting. My view is that religion fully has that coming. His view might have been that his faith was strong enough to shrug off what he saw as attacks. Actually, the drift of the thread, barring the input of the odd maverick, was one of challenge, not attack. But there ya go!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 08:47 PM

Er, you won't find one single complaint from me in this thread, Guest. Can you read English?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 15 - 10:27 PM

Sigh. Joe has still got the mod's overview, but it is just more constrained than when he was the head nerd, as I understand it. Anyway, there is always a relatively civil way to say anything that needs be said, and part of the civil code of free speech is being sturdy enough to hold your own point of view without getting your knickers in a twist because someone thinks differently than you do.

Do not forget, friends and grasshoppers, that there is an infinite supply of opinion in the world, and a much shorter supply of civility and compassion. Apologies for sanctimony! :D

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 03:32 AM

I was the OP on that particular thread, It was a VERY interesting thread with some excellent contributions, especially from Joe, who put his heart and his feelings on the line. Steve also put a lot of work into the thread, although I disagree with his particular stance on the place of religion in society.
There were very insightful posts from many members Mr McGrath, D McG, Pete....... and some others who agreed with Steve.
A couple of days ago, the thread developed into a personal attack on Joe and the return of a group who simply wanted to wreck what had been thought provoking and informative.

I have always been against the personalising of discussion or the stalking of members on these pages and I mentioned that I was thinking of requesting the closure of the thread, before ant further damage was done.

I did not make that request, but the thread was closed and I believe it was time to do so.

However, if as I believe, moderation has moved into a new phase where discussion of SUBJECTS is proscribed by the moderators, because opinions are expressed that they do not PERSONALLY support, or that they THINK may cause trouble, we are in a very sad and dangerous place.

All subjects should be open for discussion here, personal attacks and abuse should be dealt with firmly.....then perhaps we can have more threads like "The Pope in America", without the need for closure and the weakening of our forum, by handing victory to the abusers.....Ake.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 03:36 AM

Joe Offer has been the most fair and reasonable mod on here...and even when he was the mod below the line, he would often explain just WHY he was taking exception to the tones of the thread, and where it was going. I have NO complaints, whatsoever, about the way he conducts his affairs on here.
The fact that, of all people, Steve opens a thread complaining about Joe, and his treatment of a thread that Steve threw off course, with his childish name calling, defies gravity!
There are other mods, who shall remain nameless, who will shut down a thread, or delete posts, just because I or someone, criticizes the phony behavior of their favorite candidate, pointing out her hypocritical deceit, is another story. You would think that, even if that particular candidate is the darling of wannabe 'so-called liberals' you'd think that character matters, and people would want to know the history of the facade she has/is painting about herself, to protect the other facade that 'the party' is promoting.
Before I cast a vote, I'd rather have an idea, given her history, or any candidate's history of double-talk, lies, and actual voting record, BEFORE I would vote for a person, who you know is continuing to lie, and play on the emotions, for the sake of manipulating the election dialogue...because, in fact, she is lying to YOU!!..nor can you discount the fact that her character and behavior, has ANYTHING to do with what and how she is trying to come off!!
While not having decided on which candidate I will eventually vote FOR, some candidates(and agendas) will definitely NOT get my vote, based of their RECORD, regardless what they SAY about it now ...besides, how can you believe them????.....and BTW, that goes for both parties....
....and anyone should be able to be free to express that, or say anything that vets any of the candidates, and let the other people research those facts for themselves. That's what free speech is about, not just for the media, which often, only one side is presents...and usually 'less that totally truthful!!

GfS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 03:43 AM

I had something to say at the end of the "Pope" thread and I found it was closed, so I thought I'd say it anyhow. I added my comment to an existing post so the thread wouldn't go up to the top of the Forum Menu again. I didn't think anybody would mind.

I'm the registrar and music editor here, and I have a number of other duties. I don't handle "peacekeeping" moderation at Mudcat any more, although I did that for about 15 years. And yes, there is a tool that can tell which moderator did what; but we generally operate on trust and have little need to use the tool, which is rather time-consuming to use. The thread was closed for good reason, and that's good enough for me.

-Joe Offer-

Here's what I said that Steve Shaw objects to:
    From Joe Offer: I found this thread to be very troubling, but I'm not the one who closed it and I don't know which moderator did. It's clear that it was time for it to be closed, however. Religious belief is something personal, not something to be fought about or defended. And when it becomes a subject of combat, people get hurt. It shouldn't have to be that way. There should be room for many ways of thinking, and people should have the freedom to be able to formulate and test their ways of thinking without fear of being attacked.
    But this thread was getting worse and worse, so I said my goodbyes a couple days ago and left the thread. I came across a video today that honestly addresses a number of issues addressed in this thread. It's a very thought-provoking presentation, critical of all sides without condemning anyone. I think it's worth your consideration, whatever your thinking might be. I keep trying to find a quote I heard once from architect Louis Kahn. It goes something like this: Everything everyone says is the truth. It may be their truth, but it is nonetheless the truth. I think that's true here. People said what they think in this thread and told their truth, and some of it was hurtful. I know I got hurt, and that's why I left the thread.
    I hope someday we will be able to discuss these things without hurting each other.
    I thank the moderator who decided to close this thread. I think it was time.
    -Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:35 AM

Joe Offer, do me a big favour, please. Stop misrepresenting me. I did not object. Quite the opposite. I started an enquiry in this thread. You did this kind of thing an awful lot in the Pope thread and, in my view, that contributed greatly to the embittering of the atmosphere that you're getting so "hurt" about. And to others posting in this thread, until this post (which IS a complaint), I have not complained. Thank you!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM

If it looks like a duck...

Quack!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM

Of course you were complaining Steve.
You said it was the weirdest thing you had ever seen and it brought the board into disrepute.
How is that not a complaint?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:03 AM

"And to others posting in this thread, until this post (which IS a complaint), I have not complained"

Thought that was pretty clear.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:13 AM

I don't like anybody very much, so screw the lot of you. But have a nice day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:15 AM

What made the thread that was closed interesting for me was the many byways we went down that had nothing specially to do with America and less to do with the Pope (and least of all where the Pope was)

We had recently got onto the topic of whether law is supreme and when it might be appropriate to defy or at least bend it. I think it really unfortunate when we begin discussing something of relevance to everything from apartheid to radicalisation some would rather just call others names.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 06:44 AM

One of the weirdest things I ever saw was a naked couple riding on a chopped motorcycle around a campsite in Rhos-on-sea. It could well have brought the site into disrepute. This is not a complaint regardless of what some people may think.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Kampervan
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:02 AM

Well, I don't think that there are any restrictions of free speech om Mudcat, and anyone who says there are should be banned.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:56 AM

There really is no such thing as free speech, here or anywhere else. What we have is controlled speech. There are those who post here that others would deprive of any speech at all. So this "free speech" thing is a bit of a red herring.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 10:55 AM

It's all in the hands of the moderators, Joe was a good moderator he let things roll(even things he disagreed with) until personal abuse replaced discussion, then he started removing posts and explaining why he removed them.

Some of the moderators have strong views on WHAT can be discussed, not the manner of the discussion. This is never a positive in internet forums.....moderators need to make their point(if they feel they must) then step back and let civil discussion continue.
Regarding moderation, they should guard against bullying, libel, and abuse.....and never get so involved that they begin to take sides on the subject matter.
There are some posters who are never abusive, but are labelled as troublemakers due to their views on political and social matters, with which a majority of the membership disagree.

On an internet forum, disagreement is positive, as an atheist I learned a lot from the views of Pete, Mr McGrath, DMcG, Joe and others,
I am still not a believer, but I have started thinking seriously about what motivates these good people and how a spiritual dimension in ones life is an absolute necessity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 10:59 AM

Of course, being able to put your comment after the thread was closed is a privilege. One that only one forum in the whole world tolerates.

Mind you, it tolerates a lot of things that some people find upsetting. Free speech and bigotry are confused sometimes by terminally confused people.

If religion was getting a pasting then either it's God can do something about it or perhaps the rational people fed up with having to pretend they respect the unrespectable are right in the first place.

The thread had many people, in their own way, questioning the role of religion in society, which is well in tune with the thread title. As ever, ignorance starts a thread and ignorance tends to close it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 11:12 AM

I agree completely with Ake. Once moderators start "moderating" positions and opinions that they don't support the forum is as good as finished.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,punkfolrocker
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 11:18 AM

Trusting mods is all very fine...

If I were boss admin of a forum, I'd want to [say once a month] press a button to bring up a graph/chart of stats analysis of modding behaviour,
just for the benefit of fairness & transparency to monitor the performance & quality of mods.

Mods with an unusually high score of post deletions and thread closures would require closer scrutiny and maybe a a quick informal pm chat.

Mods with a high intervention pattern on particular 'controversial' thread topics might require extra attention and additional 'feedback'
pending review of their modding status and privileges.......

This procedure shouldn't reqire too much time per month...

seems fair enough to me....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:06 PM

How ironic...that the person who started whining about 'free speech' is the same person criticizing Joe's right to exercise his!!...AND is most abusive to any poster who, he feels, even alludes to anything that HE may construe as being 'religious'.... nor, can he see any correlation between anything spiritual, consistent with anything in physics...and yet claims to have taught 'science'...and science, itself, is thought to be the compilation of consistencies organized by an IMPARTIAL OBSERVER....and THAT, (the 'compilation of consistencies organized by an IMPARTIAL OBSERVER'), is even taught, and stressed in science classes and studies.

Oh well....

GfS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:07 PM

Free speech doesn't exist on this forum. There is a small cohort who seek to silence anyone and everyone whose opinions don't align with their own. They present their opinions as 'fact', declare their opponents '...ists' or 'bigots', and refuse point-blank to review and modify their own opinions in the light of perfectly reasonable and justifiable submissions by others.

There are also Moderators who abuse their position by deleting posts they disagree with, or delete whole threads they don't like, or post their two cents-worth and then close the thread.

No point bellyaching, it's the way it is. Live with it, or Foxtrot Oscar.

Or do as I mostly do nowadays - lurk, read and piss your pants laughing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:14 PM

I had just posted and it had just closed. a little frustrating, but I try to do shorter posts now precisely because of threads closing without warning. personal attacks are sadly getting too common. I don't worry about attacks on me ,as it only serves to highlight the abusers lack of substance in their opposition. it might be helpful if we were told if there are any subjects off limits 1, so we know what to avoid if possible , and 2, so the people that think that having a different opinion to them in and of itself, is offensive and abusive, have no excuse for complaining.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:34 PM

what price free speech?

responsibility


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:38 PM

"what price free speech?"

It's Black Friday today, probably 50% discount until midnight.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:45 PM

I guess I'm lucky that I missed the original thread but as far as Joe Offer goes in my opinion over the years he has done a superb job. Maybe he didn't please all of us all the time but again in my opinion he was fair


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 12:56 PM

Hate speech, attacking others, and stalking aren't tolerated and when those posts go away the person who originally put them up acts offended, like their rights are being trampled. Those are the three things that tear up a good thread the fastest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:02 PM

The problem Acme, is that people are often accused of "hate speech" or one the isms, just because they disagree with many others or, God forbid, they disagree with those who are always right.
We do not all share the same definition of hate speech and isms, there is the problem.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:22 PM

..and another observation...A few threads ago, (and I can't recall which thread), Joe gave a small list of those that he felt were more 'Conservative' or leaning that way....and it's those same people defending Joe, and the way he has conducted his duties on Mudcat...whereas, those who identify with being 'liberal', are the same name callers, those who label other people as bigots, racists, homophobic, and religious nutcases , and who disrupt threads with such antics, or the mods who delete posts which they don't agree with...and attack anyone who doesn't tow the 'party line', even when the 'party line' is completely misleading!!!

...just an impartial observation...observe it yourselves...then wonder about what some of you have fallen into, by manipulations, of a compassionate nature turned 'political'....

...but then, a lot of those same people, are the ones who spend so much time arguing on here, because they can't win an argument with their spouses!!

GfS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:23 PM

Words and actions have consequences for which you are responsible.

The rules for posting on the Mudcat Cafe are quite clear. Play by them or leave. This is not, and never was, a "democracy" or anything else other than a moderated forum.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:42 PM

Apparently, saying I shouldn't be allowed to marry, putting "" around marriage when applying to me and countless others, saying I have a sexually transmitted disease and that laws to make us all equal are pathetic all come under free speech eh?

Even when the two worst perpetrators lie and twist health figures in order to substantiate their hatred? Oh, it's alright, they have free speech. Yet the worst creature is quite quick to run to moderators and claim that he has seen some imaginary solicitor when accurate observations about him are put out. Moderators close them down because free speech applies to homophobes but not offended gay men.

Fuck off

This hateful and pointed little rant is going to stay in place instead of being deleted to make a point. Because Musket/s can't just say something, they have to keep twisting the screw, bringing up again and again the thing they hate about the person they stalk, starting the same fight in a new location. GET OVER IT. Your life is yours, and the party you disagree with isn't going to change or go away. Neither of you will. Find something else to talk about. You kill a lot of threads with this particular running battle, and logging on as an anonymous guest or as Harry Forest or anyone else doesn't disguise the huge chip on your shoulder. I would hazard that many moderators agree with your political views, but what is deleted is the stalking behavior. ---annoyed mudelf


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:43 PM

You have missed the point Rap, totally.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:52 PM

If free speech does not apply to everyone, then there is no free speech. Ugly as some of the views expressed here are, on both left and right , they do fall under free speech. The answer is to continually challenge those views.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 02:51 PM

So, HiLo, what is or is not being done at Mudcat that affects free speech?

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: gnu
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:39 PM

"Some of the moderators have strong views on WHAT can be discussed, not the manner of the discussion."

Here's some free speech... bullshit.

"I don't like anybody very much, so screw the lot of you. But have a nice day."

Ditto that free speech eh?

13C here today. Very windy. Gonna drop temp and rain and snow tonight. Yes, the weather is far more important to me than


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Kampervan
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:56 PM

This real issue here is not 'free speech', debate, discussion or persuasion.

It is about the freedom for certain individuals to be as rude, insulting and personally vindictive as they chose. It is not what I come to this forum for and I don't believe that it is what the majority of the members of Mudcat want.

More to the point, if it is not what the founder, owner and moderators want, then those who don't like it should seek a different forum.

If I am wrong, and these people do have a place here, then I, like too many before me, will go elsewhere.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:15 PM

Well shiver me timbers. I think I'm being too subtle. My original post was a sardonic observation on yet another piece of Mudcat moderatorial clumsiness. Not a complaint, not a rant against censorship or the "attack on free speech." How many times do have to say it. THIS...IS...NOT...MY...GIG. I come to the gig and I contribute. Generally speaking, I refrain from calling people names these days. I won't get specific, but at least three confounded idiots post to this thread, yet they are all given a free pass. The three confounded idiots in question all suck up to the moderators and manage to persuade them that they're harmless duffers (one of which is but two of which are decidedly not, but when you've flattered the mods you can get away with anything). I'm not a confounded idiot and I don't suck up to anyone. I'm not in anyone's team. In that thread I repeatedly challenged Joe Offer's denial and he got more and more bitter and aggressive. He called me lots of names. Don't arse about here, jumping to his defence like an automaton because you're his mate. Go and read the thread. It's much harder work to do that and do the collar work and ditch the prejudice that it is to be lazily prejudiced. My posts were detailed, to the point, reactive and direct. I asked one question over and over again, is it right to tell children lies in school about God and Jesus instead of the plain truth, which is that there is no evidence for their existence. Joe's allies alleged that the question was answered but "not to Steve's satisfaction." Well it wasn't answered AT ALL! I didn't go on that thread to be Mr Spock or to twist the knickers of believers. They managed that very well for themselves, if you read the thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:24 PM

Another Musket/s clone with a huge chip on his shoulder - give it up FFS, most of us are sick of the repetitive song you are singing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:31 PM

I don't even know who Musket is. Ask him. I'm as confused as anyone else by his multiple identities. He and I have never exchanged messages either as PMs here or as private emails. Not once, ever. I'm very honest, Guest. Unlike you. If you're on Joe's side, ask him whether it's right to judge people without full knowledge. On second thoughts, sadly, he may not be the right person to ask.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Time stamp
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:50 PM

@Joe--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TGS-JD80nE
       How refreshing ! Newey to me, but what a wise man.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 06:07 PM

Steve, "How many times do have to say it."

Once was enough. The issue is that people don't believe you.

About the whole "free speech" thing, in most places people shut up about whatever and get on with life. Here, they just re-hash the SSDD. So we have the guy who hates, not so much religion as people who are religious. We have the guy who hates the idea of gay people getting married and having kids, and we have the guy who hates that guy. We have the guy who thinks not believing in any god is a religion. We have the guy who talks about historical things such as WWI non-stop, and we have the guy who hates him. Then we have the guy from 'so called sanity' who obviously is from somewhere else.

I have no doubt mostly everybody knows exactly who I'm talking about, even if I haven't mentioned one single name. Telling, no?

You look at arguments these people participate in permanently and repetitively, and you notice that it's the same people all the time, and new people don't ever get involved, and those participants not only don't have a clue what they do to the forum, but don't care. They're either stupid or numb. The repetitive nastiness drives me nuts, but not for long because I usually can't be bothered paying attention to it.

I truly wish Max would just declare a moratorium on BS until maybe the new year. (Not sure which one.)

Free speech doesn't exist here. Most of the people who bitch about not having it are trolls. I wish we were arguing about infringement on free speech because of someone's point of view instead of them feeling entitled to attack people they don't like.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 06:16 PM

And most of the unnamed people seem compelled to have the last word on any thread they are active on.

I hereby declare I am content if someone posts after this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:03 PM

It seems to me that in a forum where one can say 'almost' anything, it becomes common for some to complain when they find they can't say 'totally' anything.
I think being a Moderator is like being president, or Prime Minister... you'll never please everyone. They are unpaid HUMAN volunteers who are basically trusted by the owner... they do their best and realize it's never quite 'good enough'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:19 PM

" The issue is that people don't believe you."

Well, you seem able to speak for "people". Would you care to list the "people" who don't believe me, please? The truth is, Jeri, that you are something of a jobsworth dullard in these parts. Why, last week you were castigating people for doing that most wonderful of things on Mudcat, reopening an ancient thread with a new take. And just look how that thread took off again!

"So we have the guy who hates, not so much religion as people who are religious."

So who's he? Gosh, we have a lot of this "the guy who..." and "the usual suspects..." etcetera ad nauseam. Go on, name names. I'll take you to pieces but I won't sue you, I promise!

"I have no doubt mostly everybody knows exactly who I'm talking about, even if I haven't mentioned one single name. Telling, no?"

No, not telling. The only thing that's telling is that you're too cowardly to name names. Oh, by the way. In your litany of pejoratives (which I deleted from this post as it was far too tedious) was the description of the Catholic guy who calls people who think he's wrong to defend forcing children to be indoctrinated under crucifixes " bigots, literalists and absolutists." Did you forget, or is he your uncle?

"You look at arguments these people participate in permanently and repetitively, and you notice that it's the same people all the time, and new people don't ever get involved, and those participants not only don't have a clue what they do to the forum, but don't care. They're either stupid or numb. The repetitive nastiness drives me nuts..."

Lies. New people get involved all the time. Read the thread. You are saying what you want to be true so that you can have a stick to beat us with, but you don't check your facts. Weird. And the irony of the last half of that quote is entirely lost on you.

"Free speech doesn't exist here. Most of the people who bitch about not having it are trolls."

Name names. With your evidence, please. I haven't seen this here in this thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:24 PM

I'll take you to pieces...

Give it up.......creep!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM

Your interventions are very entertaining, Guest. Joe and Jeri must really love having you onside. Though Jeri probably wouldn't admit to it. After all, they agree with you. On the other hand, a little mudelf intervention (shall we guess who?) denigrated Musket for being right. Wow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Peter from seven stars link
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM

The way this is going, I reckon it will be closed very soon....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:53 PM

To be honest, pete, I'm amazed that it's still here. It's becoming a bit of a Mudcat formula: let the whingers whinge for a few dozen posts, then, when the going gets tough, *bang!* Deaded!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 08:55 PM

Stick with the MC it will make you a kinder, gentler person over time.

Clones are known, you just need to use milliseconds based on GMT and geographic location ISP. In fact...there is a beautiful map.


Be Happy...Be THANKFUL.
Sincerely,
Gargoyle

My polished reputation is intack only because of the expunging tact mudcat mods exercised in the past


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:01 PM

Get a life, people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:33 PM

Get a life, some people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:49 PM

I have to say that there's something to be said for Steve Shaw's kind of participation in the Forum. It's like a game of chess - move and countermove, move again and checkmate. There's a real, worthwhile challenge in defeating a formidable opponent. Lots of people participate in Internet forums for this reason - to do battle, and to enjoy the thrill and challenge of it all. Steve is especially adept at it, since he claims to have no opinion of his own. He parries counterattacks by claiming that he never said what it's clear that he said, and then he cries "foul" at people who quote him word-for-word but still don't capture his ever-changing position. And then he attacks, usually by using the same tactics he decries - and very cleverly, he denies ever having attacked or insulted anyone. He's kept this up in thread after thread after thread, and he's very good at it.

But Steve's approach is all a very shallow game of deception and manipulation and outright fraud. For him, it's all a game. And I'm sure it's a very thrilling game - and it's certainly a stimulating intellectual challenge. I can't say that Steve's game is all bad. Seems like it's a very good game - for people who want to play. In Steve's game, the primary object is to defeat opponents. It's just another addictive video game. But people like Steve play that game well, and more power to them.

As Steve has adeptly demonstrated to my chagrin, combat confuses and frustrates me; and forces me into positions I do not want to take, and into corners I do not want to be boxed into. I don't want to do combat here - not ever.

I think there are other people here who, like me, might not like to think of the BS forum as a video combat game. How we be accommodated when the BS section is dominated by people who want to do combat?




I really enjoy a good, honest, open discussion - and I have had many rich, wonderful discussions here over the years. I want to hear what everyone thinks - and I want to enjoy and respect the people I talk with, even if I might not agree with them. Even if their position is not my position, I can learn from them. I want to think out loud, to try out ideas with receptive people without fear of being attacked for the ideas I've proposed. I want to be able to laugh in a discussion, and to learn. I have no desire to win a discussion - for me, that's not what it's about.

And most of all, I want to be able to be honest, to be able to say what I think and be myself without fear of ridicule or attack. I'd like to think that sort of thing should be possible in a community of folk musicians.

I don't know how this can be accomplished - to have room at Mudcat for both the thrill of combat and the free, generous, gentle exchange of ideas that can happen in a rich discussion.

Any thoughts?

-Joe


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 10:00 PM

Joe, back when I was newer to the internet, I realized trolls don't want to resolve arguments, and the only thing they want is to keep them going forever. It's about control and manipulation. It's not why I'm here, and that's why I don't respond when people keep holding up hoops for me to jump through. Sad people, small tragic lives, and that isn't anything to aspire to, but that seems to be the only reason some people are at Mudcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Forsaken
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:13 AM

Men that love wisdom must be acquainted with very many things indeed.--Heraclitus


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:41 AM

This is my first post to this thread. My name is Ian Mather. Two other people use the Musket name with my full and total blessing. The more I read, the more I feel justified in confusing names so as people have to address the text not the name posting it.

I notice a few others have started doing likewise. Good.

The post complaining that free speech is not the same as bigotry could have been a fellow Musket but there again I didn't see the name so I can't tell. The assumption by moderators that it was is either based on prejudice or use of IP address. as VPN is rather popular now (and two of us as Musket use the same work VPN, it is a mental leap.)

Steve Shaw, who I've never met, never emailed, pm'd or anything else for that matter, started a thread complaining that Joe Offer used his position to contribute a view on a closed thread with no right of reply. I'm not surprised. Joe has also taken to using the personal email that Mudcat stores in order to drag his arguments further. I was shocked to have an email from him accusing me of all sorts of nonsense.

I find some on here are using the name Musket to denote someone who attacks their view. Do you know what? As stupid as that is, I'm relaxed about it. Mudcat below the line is a surreal place and I love to have a laugh at some of the absurd bullshit here, and yes, when the shit settles, give it a stir to get my money's worth.

But the mudelf comment below a plea to moderate homophobia is about as crass, disgusting and low as you can get. To say that someone who lies to influence opinion to hate people and someone who is on the receiving end of the attacks are two sides of the same coin beggers belief.

I didn't post anything on any thread from some time this summer to about last week. When I did, I had a glance through a few threads where the usual suspects go off on one. I was delighted to see them squeal "Musket!" as anonymous people bring them down a peg or two.

Was it one of my mates? Well, one left Mudcat he says, after complaining to his ISP and the other was posting far less anyway. I haven't spoken to either in months.

If it is poking fun at the pompous aspects of superstition or having a pop at those who follow the party line on military blunders then by all means call yourself Musket. My work is done.

Luv&hugs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:47 AM

I dunno, Jeri. I hate to write people off as just trolls. Maybe you're right, though.
I don't want to see anybody written off. I just want to be able to have a peaceful, friendly conversation.

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:56 AM

So why get all pissy when the Catholic Church is criticised?

Why feel the need to defend it without right of reply?

All you do is confirm that religion cannot hold its own in debate when faced with rational argument.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Harry Forest
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 04:28 AM

Talking of free speech, which moderator has told Keith A of Hertford that I am one of the Musket tribe?

Is lying part of free speech then? Is making claims only the moderators know isn't true (access to IP) a privilege?

It's a good job Mudcat has some excellent UK music threads.

Or is it Keith lying again? It has to be one of them. You can't call me anything that I'm not. I'm a man from Bristol who lost his cookie and since then hasn't bothered with it. I did think labels were unimportant but just to echo the Musket post above, labels seem to be important when your argument is shallow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 05:30 AM

Tiresome nonsense.

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 05:59 AM

I don't know about anyone else but when I read the phrase "Musket clone" I read it to mean someone with the same sort of views or approach to arguing as Musket. After all, whether you are using the word clone in the scientific sense or informally it denotes a copy, not the original. So it did not imply to me either that the person referenced knew Musket, as Steve would have it, or that they actually were Musket as Harry would.

And no, I didn't post it either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:05 AM

What a disreputable attempt at character assassination, Joe. Let me apprise you of a couple of things. First, I operate in these discussions entirely on my own. Of course, it's very nice when someone expresses agreement. Second, I've had a very busy week, taking an old lady out for lunch (five hours' driving in terrible weather), taking people to medical appointments over an hour's drive from home, helping my daughter to move house in the pissing rain (she lives an hour and a half away from us) and trying (at 300-mile distance) to fix up a stair lift for my old mum and getting the engineers to fix my parents' central heating, as mum and dad can't handle the call centres as they're deaf. Bloody nightmare, actually, but they wiped my bottom and brought me up right and now it's payback time. All this and my bad back, that I had surgery on two years ago to try to mitigate the loss of several of my discs, has been playing up big-time, probably because of lifting heavy weights and spending interminable hours behind the wheel. Apart from listening to a bit of Beethoven late at night, I've done hardly anything for myself all week. But I'm still here and we've just had a delightful half-hour facetiming with our new grandson, the world's most beautiful baby ever. Too much bloody information, eh? Now when you tell us (repeatedly) about all your good deeds, it's to make us see what a good Catholic you are (though why you feel you need to keep telling us, heaven only knows). But I'm not telling you this to make you think what a great atheist I am. I'm telling you this to inform you that there is real life out here and that Mudcat is not it. Get a grip, Joe. If you didn't want to discuss faith with me the solution was in your own hands, so please spare me the sanctimonious bullshit about how hurt you are, how I attack that which you "hold sacred", how you got suckered in, etc. I don't discuss WWI interpretation any more with Teribus because the game ain't worth the candle. I know exactly what would happen and I'm not quite insane. Religion can't be immune from discussion and criticism like it was in the Middle Ages. You are either happy to discuss it and fend off the attacks because you feel secure about it (even pete makes a good fist of that, fair dues to the man), or you avoid it because you'd rather investigate your insecurities on your own. Both are honest strategies. You seem to fall between stools, unfortunately. I am not here to win unwinnable battles and I'm not here to discuss it interminably. These threads end and, this one aside (which was not meant to be a religion thread in any case), I hardly ever start new ones. I'm not a chess-playing automaton who's out to get you. I'm a human being who likes discussing one of his favourite subjects. And you can simply sod off with your unwarranted troll accusations, Jeri. I can't remember the last time I read a decent contribution from you. Plenty of negative input, of course.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:46 AM

"Harry,"
27 Nov 15 - 01:42 PM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 10:45 AM

I have said for years that people seem to speak a different language at times. Not the usual old crap about American and British English, simply that people are on a different wavelength. I fully understood Steve's point. Posting to a thread when it was closed, with no chance of reply, was an abuse of administrative powers. Yet the discussion seems to have turned around to Steve's failings. Of which I am sure, like me and many others, he has.

St Joe's facade slips once again. Yes, I do mean once again, I have been subject to the drive-by character assassination as well, By Good ol' Joe, who never does any harm to anyone.

I do apologise for bringing it up as it seems I am indulging in the same sort of thing. And I am sure I will be told, in no uncertain terms, that I am just being combative for the sake of it. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am just pointing out that there seems to be some sort of communications break down which, instead of trying to resolve, people are using for their own ends.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 11:44 AM

My Dear Mr. Miles,

I would like to inform you that in my opinion, you perfectly fit the definition of a Certified Asshole.

Congratulations!

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 11:46 AM

However I treat that as a bit of a joke, the moderators work on a voluntary basis and its up to us to try and moderate ourselves.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:12 PM

I don't know who has the authority to delete a thread but this thread should have been deleted immediately after it was started this not mudcat is all about


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:23 PM

Steve,

Joe and Jeri are very different sorts. Jeri is the sort who'd grab you by the collar and let you know exactly what she thinks. (Your idea that she's "cowardly" will evaporate instantly, should you ever meet her). Joe is the sort who would kindly(but firmly)sit you down and ask to hear your story. Not the one you toss off in casual conversation, but the real one.

I mention this because I think each of them has a point--Jeri, that you've been saying the same things for a long time, and that she and we have heard it all already, and are past caring...

Joe, on the other hand, is looking beyond that, senses that you have real, personal cause for your anger and bitterness, and is trying engage you in a way that will reconcile that.

Personally, though well intended, I generally regard that sort of thing as a bit paternalistic. You keep bringing these issues to the table though, and seem to want some resolution.

I really hope you can find some peace.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:39 PM

Stim. This thread is about abuse of administrative privelage. Steve has not been "saying this for a long time" because it has only just happened. Any mention of past conversations is just trying to put people off the fact that this is what happened. You are not helping to make this a better place by defending poor moderation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:50 PM

Its quite obvious who the muskets are. Three or four(at one point) people who teamed up to wreck discussion here.

They shared usernames to avoid the consequences of their nasty personal abuse. Now the team has been forced to split, but the phraseology, the lame attempts at sarcasm, the out of date Pythonesqe "humour", makes their identities all too clear.

First they tried to get those who disagreed with them banned from the forum, then they started reporting what they termed "hate speech" to the police, when admin failed to support them in their claims they reported the forum to the authorities for PRINTING "hate speech".
They tried to have the whole show closed down!
Now they are reduced to sniping and printing obscenities and libellous comments about individual members......what other forum would be as patient with their fundamentalist brethren?

I suppose their wishes of death on their opponents, the character assassination attempts, the criminal libels, the cursing, the ageism, the use of terms of abuse which demean womankind, could be put down to lack of intellect, but don't we think that time has run out on these thugs?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:54 PM

He's not making it a better place by posting arrant stupidity either!


I read tons of stuff on here that I never respond to. There are several reasons for that, usually to do with the fact that I don't know enough or am not clever enough or that it's about jazz, but one of which is that I'm past caring. If anyone here ever catches me posting on a topic about which I'm past caring, please refer me immediately to a trick cyclist. I'll pay, I promise.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:56 PM

Hi ake - oddly enough I just saw your car! Well, not really, but the number plate was T1 AKE.

Niceties over - You talk a load of crap. It was nothing like you imply and you cannot substantiate any accusations 'trying to avoid the consequences' any 'team' being 'forced to split' or 'lack of intellect'. Let alone the other shite you just spouted. Funny that someone so keen on keeping to the subject in hand and not abusing anyone is one of the biggest abusers on the forum isn't it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:10 PM

I don't think you are a Musket Dave....you're "Hermless" :0)...Cue for a song!!


Wish I had that plate Dave,    When I was young, my nickname was "Ticks" afew years ago, I saw the reg. T 1 CKS.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:15 PM

Hermless


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM

I got infested with sheep ticks in Ireland once. I found them very irritating.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:47 PM

the out of date Pythonesqe "humour"

Now wait just a durned minute! Alot of that 1970 stuff Pythonesque humor is really quite contemporary & germaine.

The world, regrettably, hasn't changed much overallin the interval.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:50 PM

Pythonesque ??? that's far too modern...
Some of the old traditionalists here stopped off with The Goons.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:40 PM

I would be the last person to know whether i was engaging in "arrant stupidity" or not. Given that, I am inclined to think my comments were fairly accurate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 28 April 2:43 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.