BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 05:50 AM

Fer chries sakes.

Bombing is what ISIS/Da'ish want. But cutting-off their revenue is not exactly "nothing" nor is it "misguided". You could, instead, try a world wide ban on the sale of antiquities that have no provenance, or ban fund raising in Muslim communities, or go after the scam merchants and do a lot of collateral damage, not the least to relations. But how ya gonna execute those?

Corner them metaphorically and they have to break cover metaphorically. They will make mistakes and be more visible - cyberphorically.

FOLLOW THE MONEY - but do it effectively.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 07:11 AM

It never posts anything homophobic does it Joe?

JOE!! Joe Offer!!! Are you still saying it never posts anything homophobic? Or racist? Or bigoted in any way?

Sick puppy

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 01:07 PM

"I don't support Mr Trump's economic policies"
Just his racism and homophobia - isn't that enough?
" that to oppose "gay marriage" equates to hatred of all homosexuals?"
It does in your case - you've show that often enough with your "gay plague" approach to the subject
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 01:21 PM

We wonder why the Trumps, Hitlers and Paisleys get or got popular support. Then we read the shocking posts above.

Mudcat might be about free speech, whatever that is. But it really shouldn't allow propagation of hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 02:07 PM

Jim, I do not know anything about Mr Trumps views on homosexuality or racism. I was referring to his views on foreign policy

I have never once, to my knowledge used "gay plague" in any post, please correct me if I am wrong.   You have used it many times.

The fact that there is an epidemic of STD amongst male homosexuals is a matter of record, I have suggested ways of alleviating that situation......what have you done, other than bury your fat head in the sand?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 02:08 PM

Akenaton says that marrying someone you love is extremely dangerous and should not be promoted by governments.

Fair comment. I assume his parents loved each other and look what that produced.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 02:39 PM

Another item for Cruz' litany of shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 02:55 PM

The beauty of all this is that billionaires are spending lots of money to get Republicans elected and the American people aren't going to vote for them in sufficient numbers so they can win the election.

Keep your eyes on the prize.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 03:03 PM

"If you wage jihad against us you're signing your death warrant" --Ted Cruz.

Gee Turd, I bet that struck fear into the hearts of those passionate jihadists who believe so devoutly in their cause they're willing to blow themselves up if they can take a few infidels with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 04:19 PM

Current reports here in the UK are Trump 41% Cruz 14%. Funny sort of passing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 09:44 PM

Cruz Passes Trump?

I didn't know there was a laxative strong enough to allow one to pass Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 09:46 PM

No one wins friends by dropping bombs on them. None of us would like it and guess what, neither do those who receive the ordnance. Either commit to a task and stop posturing for the general public, or go fight the fucking thing yourself.

Politicians and bankers make lotsa money when wars happen. Does anyone here think there are altruistic reasons for war? Are they worth the lives of our children, of the poverty they bring upon us? Keriste, gimme it a rest. That notion is what the various media sell, and how did we become so stupid as to buy it?

Simply refuse to play the game. Various people here bring forth their platitudes and staunchly defend them. They bring up histories that no longer matter. Sorry bucko, but you be talkin' to the wrong guy. You support war, have at it. Go take care of it in person.

I suggest that we no longer go to war unless the children of politicos lead us into battle. It may not be a solution, but it may define the lines that delineate why we fight and the willingness we think someone else's kid should have. Until then, no thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 09:55 PM

Last post was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 10:14 PM

Guest#: "I suggest that we no longer go to war unless the children of politicos lead us into battle."

Chelsea Clinton leading the battle on the front lines????????

...after all, her mom voted for the war in Iraq....then promoted the lie about the YouTube video, as the cause for the Benghazi consulate being attacked...lied in front of Congress about it as well....Oh well...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 11:42 PM

Pass the tinfoil please

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 12:16 AM

What size do you wear??...after all, what I posted is true...and on video. Do you prefer leaders to be liars and lie to you?????....unless, of course, you believe the lies....then you think they are wonderful!!

What you WANT to believe, does not mean the lie is any truer...it just means that you are the exact gullible fool that the liar is targeting.
Have a wonderful delusion!


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 03:03 AM

Better make it extra-strong tinfoil

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 05:14 AM

Of course the problem is, this is not an "ordinary" war.

ISIS are a major threat to the world, more powerful in a way than Fascism......I have always been anti war#, but to allow this ideology of murder and persecution to thrive and spread is not an option.

I think many of our values are wrong, our economic system corrupt, our sense of morality debauched, but I could never support people who wish to dominate through fear and oppression.
Society must be changed through example and education.....in the case of ISIS, this would never apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:31 AM

This thread is a sad sad thing. I hate Trump as much as anyone else on here, but the way you people act is just so ironic. You call akenaton dumb and close-minded for wanting to do certain things, yet you fail to realise the close-mindedness of refusing to even entertain the idea. It's just sad how viciously and aggressively you people have to attack others. Do you think this makes your points look better, or makes their points look worse? I'm just curious what good you think you're doing by behaving like a 12 year old caught cheating.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:31 AM

Trump (UK lexicon) does pass all too easily, and leaves a nasty smell.

When the littlest Bush declared his candidacy attempt, who thought: "It can't get much worse!" ?

But then history should have taught us - look at Berlusconi. What with all the other things going on, the world appears to be going to hell in a hand cart, and look who's pushing it!

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:35 AM

Thank you for your kind and reasoned post GUEST.....some people can see no further than their fixed ideology, it is set in stone and defended with sword and fire......any deviation from it is regarded as treason.

The amazing thing is that many of these people boast of their educational qualifications, whilst never exhibiting any vestige of rationality.

I have almost no formal education, but I question everything especially my views on controversial subjects.
There are some fine and knowlegible people on this forum, but few of them are from the area of liberalism which demands complete authority over thought and speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:38 AM

Guest of 06:31 A.M. your boy proposes an alliance with 2 murderous thugs in Putin and Assad in order to perpetuate a war that no one has any sane idea how to prosecute other than sending more young people into a meat grinder. It's only natural that decent people have a strong reaction to his lack of humanity on this and other issues around here where he bumptiously puts forth his reactionary, inhumane views with mind-numbing regularity. As Harry Truman, the old cold warrior said, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 08:04 AM

and your alternative to a global coalition would be, Gilly?

I take that you agree that ISIS must be contained, or do you believe in letting the virus spread unhindered?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 08:34 AM

I think the U.S. has got to stop kicking that hornet's nest over there and in that regard Prez Obama has shown admirable restraint. Every IS fighter and every beheaded innocent is just more grist for the IS propaganda mill resulting in more effective online recruitment which is not restricted by geographic boundaries. I'd truly hate to see more young Americans, or anyone anywhere, thrown into that futile mix. I hope to never live in a country that aligns itself with a couple of blood-soaked despots like Putin and Assad. The notion is not just immoral it's effing insane.
When you don't know how to proceed, don't proceed until a path is revealed or at least do so with extreme circumspection which is what Obama has done. We've already seen the tragic results of the sort of cowboy foreign policy implemented by the previous U.S. administration and currently espoused by most of the current crop of GOP candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 08:50 AM

Should have read: "Every dead IS fighter..."

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 09:35 AM

If Akenaton believed his own words when he said above that he doesn't like domination through oppression and fear, every Muslim, every gay person and everyone else who finds bigotry offensive and repugnant would assume the education he speaks of was bearing fruit.

But it isn't.

He still propagates hatred and then comes all innocent (I have no formal education) when exposed for his odious views.

Well Alex, your excellent access to free education with equal access to further education with no financial consideration gave you the ability to put words together and form views. It isn't lack of education that you are missing, it's lack of morals.

Mind you, the popularity of Trump over in The USA does give you a peer group to identify with. Pity it has no place where you live then eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 09:41 AM

But then history should have taught us - look at Berlusconi

Trump (US lexicon) is pretty much a New World version of Berlusconi combined with LePen with a little Reagan thrown in for good measure.

Give him a farking rifle & tell him "Go for it yourself!!"

The we've got Cruz channelling Gen."Stone Age" LeMay in favor of carpet bombing - apparently he's too young to remember Vietnam and never learned anything aout it.

A hand cart ain't half big enough for all this muck.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 12:13 PM

Gilly dear boy, the path will never be revealed until you see it snaking up to you nice front door.

You people are so mixed up, as they say here "you don't know your arse from your elbow"

I am regularly abused in the strongest terms for opposing homosexual "marriage", while the people you defend would butcher homosexuals out of hand, criminalise and persecute them.

Try to get your thoughts into some kind of order......it must be difficult to be caught on the horns of a dilemma .....of your own making.

Mind you, you must be getting used to it by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 12:21 PM

Musket: "If Akenaton believed his own words when he said above that he doesn't like domination through oppression and fear, every Muslim, every gay person and everyone else who finds bigotry offensive and repugnant would assume the education he speaks of was bearing fruit.
But it isn't.
He still propagates hatred and then comes all innocent (I have no formal education) when exposed for his odious views."

Shows ya' how stupid this ideology gets.
Hey Musket, if you think that you can go up to an ISIS person, tell him that you're a homosexual, and then tell him you are tolerant and understanding of them, see how long you are still standing with your head on!

GFS

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 12:22 PM

the people you defend

????????

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 01:00 PM

Exactly what I was thinking, Greg. The people I defend are PEOPLE and I'm not sure what that paranoid, pontificating fool was defending in that last muddled post of his.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 05:04 PM

Gilly says "When you don't know how to proceed, don't proceed until a path is revealed or at least do so with extreme circumspection which is what Obama has done"

What he means is do nothing, or at best nothing effective, while ISIS continued to expand.
Putin offered a sharing of intelligence and a coalition to contain ISIS, but President Obama (or his masters) knocked it back, saying that President Assad must be removed before any co operation could take place. Putin's response was to say that it was up to the Syrian people to elect their leaders, not the US or other Western interests.

The major issue is the containment of ISIS and co operation is in the interests of us all.

"Blood soaked murderers" very theatrical! Assad was fighting a well armed and well financed(by the US) insurgency, what the fuck did you expect him to do? If he had failed the millions of inhabitants of Damascus would have been butchered without mercy.
When faced by such an insurgency you everything at your disposal to protect your people, not pea shooters!

All western "liberal democracies" would do exactly the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 05:15 PM

I'm sure the people of Damascus will be relieved to hear that Gilly is going to come to their defence should the butchers of ISIS come wandering up their path.

"President Gilly" has certain ring to it.    "Gillyu Akbar?"....naw that's takin' it a bit too far. :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:13 PM

Careful there Aketung, President Gilly will know how to deal with crypto-facist homophobes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:26 PM

You're out of your depth sonny, subtlety is the key. ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:53 PM

A few facts here.

NO airforce has ever won a war. Canada is withdrawing its fighters (only six of them) because our government is aware of that. We will be keeping our army people there to train other mid-East troops to fight their own battles. At present we have about 600 such troops (special ops, communications specialists, etc) in that theater. Bombing has been a failure because it causes non-combatants to suffer unnecessarily. Kill my kids and I become your enemy for life kinda thing. Face facts: bombing is hurting Daesh, but it is also antagonizing the population and increasing the numbers of the main enemy.

I'm a go-or-get-off-the-pot kinda guy. If it was my call, I`d exterminate Daesh to the last combatant, without remorse and without mercy. Use overwhelming force on the ground, search and destroy. Assad is a POS and he is no friend to anyone but himself. That said, the decision to let him remain is a S

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:02 PM

Syrian decision, NOT a US, UK, Russian or anyone else`s decision. Let`s deal with Daesh decisively then get out and stay out.

(Something effed up on my laptop and I can`t post the NUMBER symbol. Sorry about that.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:06 PM

I`d exterminate Daesh to the last combatant,

So pick up a rifle and go! What's holding you back, General?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:17 PM

Even if I wanted to my government would seize my passport. Now fuck off, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 08:26 PM

What the hell are you going on about Bruce? There's no indication that the 17 Dec 15 - 06:53 PM post was yours. What am I, a fucking mind reader?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 10:13 PM

Greg, I'm sorry and this is my apology to you. I had no right to tell you to eff off.

1) I am not in favour of war.
2) We are in one with Daesh and it's like being waist deep in the big muddy.
3) The situation is such that the only local people who can be trusted to fight Daesh are with the Peshmerga.
4) I am suggesting either get in or get out.
5) Daesh will not be contained or beaten with bombs.
6) I would prefer we get out, but the political climate is such that maybe we can't.
7) So get in, do the job and go home and return there no more.

American published numbers which can be seen at the following link

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-airstrikes-syria-against-isis-may-cost-much-10-billion-1694475

indicate that I'm not alone in thinking that.

I don't mind you or anyone else nailing me on matters of fact or even matters of opinion. The few friendships I have on Mudcat are not determined by friends having to agree with me. They are determined by whether or not we argue in such a way that excludes put-downs or lines like 'wear your tinfoil' or 'how can you be so stupid as to think' and other remarks of that nature. I suppose we're mostly all guilty of that in one way or other, but it's time we all stopped.

Invade my country and I will fight to the best of my ability along with the rest of my geriatric peers to get that invader out or make life so unbearable to stay that the invaders want to get out. Today, in a pragmatic sense, it really doesn't matter who caused or created Daesh. The reality is they exist and arguably they should be destroyed. So far our countries are just helping their recruitment process and I think that's counter productive.

For example, Ake and I disagree on many things. He knows that and so do I. We still get along. You and I disagree on many things. You know that and so do I. Feel free to rip my facts or opinions apart. We'll still be friends. But saying anyone's posts are shit--just because--leads nowhere, and I think we're all better than that or at least should try to be. Keep well and let's all watch our BPs :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 04:00 AM

I don't think Greg is the worst guy on earth either.
and # is a gentleman, second to none.

Folks don't have to agree about everything to get along.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 06:01 AM

#, I agree with the idea of "go big or go home" but I'm on the go home side and have been for a long, long time. I have no confidence that the U.S . military knows how to fight the kind of war that it will take to defeat Daesh. I foresee a quagmire on the order of Viet Nam lasting 8-15 years and the American public losing their stomach for it after just a few. Yep, another "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy".

While there may be a clear objective (kill every ISIS fighter) have you considered how many young people will be destroyed in the kind of fighting it will take when the enemy is embedded amongst the populace and has no interest in those people beyond how they can be used to kill "infidels"? How many other terrorists organizations will morph out of a broken Daesh? How much anti-western sentiment will result from this war? How much domestic terrorism will result from intensified ISIS propaganda and recruitment as a result of that amped up hatred?

The time for pulling out of the Middle East is long past due. Time to step back and let them sort out their long-held animosities on their own and to try and repair relations from a distance. I wonder what Eugene McCarthy would think? (If you perceived the last as a low blow I apologize,#).

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 09:35 AM

"The time for pulling out of the Middle East is long past due. Time to step back and let them sort out their long-held animosities on their own and to try and repair relations from a distance."

I agree. That's option one with me as I've stated more than a few times.

As for McCarthy, I don't think old Gene would have got the US in there in the first place. Logistics--without the use of nuclear weapons--militate against long distance wars. They're just too expensive. It's time for countries to use armies as defensive mechanisms and not as international politics by other means. As someone on this thread wisely said, more Americans have been killed by home-grown gun wielders than by Muslims. Lots more. So we're saying the same thing I think. As was recently said by Canada's Minister of National Defence Harjit Singh Sajjan:

'There is a lot of "political talk," Sajjan said. "It's hard for me to talk in that political realm, I know I'm a politician. But I think, Canadians, if you are honest with them, they will understand things. Whether it is giving them bad news or good news, or the situation, we can trust Canadians. They are smart enough … they can call bullshit very quickly." '

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 10:02 AM

Thanks for the clarification and for restoring some civility to this thread, #, but some of your posts from yesterday afternoon seem to contradict what you're saying now, hence my response. Perhaps I misread them or their intent.
Also, I appreciate you sharing your perspective on Eugene McCarthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 10:14 AM

No problem, Bruce, Thanks. Difficulty is with 16 different "Guests" posting here- two of which are consistently obnoxious jackasses, ya can't tell the players without a program- or even WITH a program. I mistakenly thought I was responding to one of the assholes. My apologies as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 10:41 AM

Happy holidays to all of my favorite jello tossers Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 10:48 AM

So many fish, so little time

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 11:01 AM

What's biting up there right now,Dan? I haven't been out since before the knee. And a very Jello Christmas to you to.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruz Passes Trump in Polls
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 11:04 AM

Now, don't go bringing up Jello in polite company, Dan. Best of the season to you!