BS: Women Only Please

Subject: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 02:53 PM

Men, this is about a piece of clothing I doubt you wear on a daily basis.


Ladies, how many wearable, everyday bras do you keep on hand?

How many times do you usually wear them, before washing them?

Thanks...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 03:24 PM

ooooooh... bras !!!

Thanks for putting naughty thoughts back in this old lechers mind.
It's been quite a dull start to the weekend up until now.

---

Considering a recent thread you started, sir, you'd be best to watch your step. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 05:48 PM

Mmm bras.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 06:26 PM

I like what is in them... Sorry I apologize... For being bad

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 06:28 PM

Like most men however, we hope the answer is
Zero

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 06:30 PM

I have four wearable, everyday bras -- three "skin-coloured" (i.e., a pinkish tan) and one black. I never wear them more than twice before washing them. I usually wash them by hand in the bathroom sink, and let them drip-dry over the bathtub. I use lukewarm water and a special washing powder for delicate fabrics.

I also have three sports bras that I wear to work out at the gym or to go trotting outside. These always get soaked with sweat, so they get washed after every wearing, also in the bathroom sink with the special washing powder.

When dry, a bra goes at the bottom of the pile so that it does not get worn again for at least four days, thus allowing the spandex to "rest".

All seven of these garments were horribly expensive -- about Cdn$80 each for the sports bras and Cdn$130 each for the "wearable, everyday" bras. They are now almost two years old and look good for at least another year of wear -- no weak spots in the spandex panels, and no underwires poking out.

I never put a bra in the dryer. I sometimes put them in the washing machine, but only on the delicate cycle, and always in a mesh bag and with all their hooks fastened. I once wrecked one of my husband's kilt hose by putting it in the washer in the same load as a bra that sank one of its hooks into a cable in the stocking.

This maintenance program was recommended by the nice lady from London who runs Ottawa's very best ladies' underwear shop.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,👙
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:23 PM

This could potentially become the most popular thread ever on mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 07:50 PM

And Charmion's post could become post of the year!

The only thing is, as a man dealing with bras (and I've dealt with many, mostly single-handed), the major potential negative is when the wire that has somehow detached itself from a bra gets lodged in the washing machine filter, resulting in at least 25 gallons of soapy water flooding the outhouse floor. Generally speaking, I imagine that this happens just the once in the lifetime of any household. Grr.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 10:08 PM

No need for anonymity in the thread - I think we all recognize most of the posters.

Charmion about covered it. Well-designed and well-made bras are expensive. They can be engineering marvels and need to be cared for with gentle washing and line drying. Depending upon the weather, wearing can be one day in hot sweaty weather, or several days in cold weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 10:13 PM

Go f*ck yourselves guys.

I'm small breasted and always have been, even during times I've been obese or nursing. I have hated wearing a bra from the first time my mother made me put one on. I loved the days when it was OK to go braless and can't quite remember when the trend changed such that I became self conscious or my job was in jeopardy if I continued to not wear a bra.

Long winded way of saying that I have a hostile dependent relationship with that particular underwear garment. They are expensive and even more uncomfortable if they don't fit right. I have 5 bras,one for each day of the work week. I also have 5 sets of professional work clothes, one for each day of the week. If you know me you will know what I will be wearing by day of the week.

As expensive as bras are I probably should take better care than I do but I toss them in the wash with the rest of the light colored work clothes, wash all on delicate, cold water cycle and dry on low heat setting.

Friends who are larger breasted tell me that bras are essential to their comfort and for some very big breasted friends, they experience significant back pain without, or even with a bra. They have to buy very expensive bras, and because of the cost, take much greater care of them than do I.

Since I don't do work that causes me to sweat I don't know that I need a different, freshly laundered bra every day of the work week. It is just my habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:08 PM

You are perfect Janie, and I second the motion for bra less. We need an international bra less day or month or months :-)
Love dan
Hiding in the cellar

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,👙
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:21 PM

Well I tried to enthuse mass interest for celebrating St Knickerless day over xmas... but sadly.....

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:58 PM

Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Anonymo.. Oh go on then, Musket
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 04:02 AM

I don't know why the women only bit applies.

We men are self confessed experts. Front fastening ones are easier to detach single handed. Wired ones can dig into a woman if you hug her tight before removal, so you must show some consideration. It's hard to tell the difference between a £4.50 one and a £150.00 one but for Clapton's sake don't ever mention the fact.

Yeah, we can add some perspective to the debate. If nothing else, the thread title guarantees we'll be curious.

It's when we stray into the contents that you might wish us to shut up. "If you're selling those puppies, I'll have the one with the pink nose."

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 04:14 AM

you'd be surprised [come to think of it, probably not] how many blokes could benefit
from shovelling their porky moobs into a supportive bra.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 07:19 AM

"You are perfect Janie"

Go f*ck yourselves guys.

No she isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Anon to protect the guilty
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:15 AM

An overweight morris dancing friend of mine was once forced to diet when his rather slim wife started telling people that he took a larger cup size than she did.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 02:04 PM

Amen,
I apologize to the mudzwomenz for my naughty behavior, next year Santa will leave me another kidney stone like this Xmas.. So I better be niceand apoligize even iif it's shallow Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 04:14 PM

I have been edified by posts such as Charmion's. The posts like GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 02:32 PM... not so much. Yeah, a joke or two, a quip, but really? Off topic at best. At least make it funny or yer suckin the hind tit big time.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 04:46 PM

No argument from me at that, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 06:10 PM

Not referring to any particular posts at all, but what almost immediately happened with this thread is that men took it over very quickly with posts that very much focus on their sexual response to breasts.

It is simply one clear example of the sexual objectification on women in our culture.

The result is the opening poster is very unlikely to get responses and information she is seeking from women on this thread, a very practical inquiry about an expensive undergarment we women are pretty much required to wear because of culture-wide sexual objectification, with out regard to whether we might choose to wear a bra for our own physical comfort depending on breast size and activity.   

Exactly 3 women, myself included, have felt either safe or confident enough to answer her question, and all of us very early on in the thread. It turned that quick into a 'guy' thing.

I think the "Women Only Please" was a simple request that you guys not turn this into a joke thread, prompted by the opening poster's real life experience of living in our society, and may well indicate why she chose to post anonymously. I don't think it can be understood as a request for men to not read.

If one of the mudcat men had asked for comments from other men about athletic supporters/jock straps, I think it very unlikely the thread would have been hijacked by we mudcat women re: our sexual thoughts about men's penises or testicles.

I don't think for a minute that any of you guys meant or mean any harm. But you are not very conscious of what you have done - not surprising - sexual objectification of women is in the very cultural air we breathe. I just hope you think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 06:19 PM

Like you said, Janie.

---

Tidied. Let's keep to the initial request now. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 06:49 PM

I am reminded of the media reaction to a Request for Proposals from the Clothe the Soldier project at National Defence Headquarters that sought bids to supply bras to the Canadian Army. (By the way, facetious Guest above, the original French word is spelt "brassière".)

Within a day, that acquisition was dubbed the Combat Bra, and the usually stolid Canadian defence commentariat launched itself into weeks of sexist yuk-yuks. Would Service Battalion storesmen in Petawawa be supplied with a fitting template, such as is provided for fitting respirators? Would the Combat Bra come in woodland disruptive pattern only, or would an Arctic version be made available? Would there be a premium, lace-trimmed version for wear with mess dress? And so on, ad nauseam.

Finally, the Clothe the Soldier people gave up on the acquisition and Canada's female soldiers got blanket permission to buy their own damned underwear, as they always had. Of course, men can get sturdy, quick-drying boxer shorts from the supply system -- Himself wears them, and he says they're great and the price is right. But if you're female, that aspect of military life hasn't changed since my day; before you deploy, make sure you're stocked up.

But there's nothing funny about the problem of finding a bra that will stand up to the conditions a person can encounter when she works in a so-called "non-traditional" setting. I still have a scar on one shoulder from the metal clip on a bra strap that carved a hole through my skin under pressure from a 25-pound rucksack, and a permanent reddish-brown patch on my ribs from the eczema caused by wearing an ill-fitting underwire bra while doing manual labour and vigorous exercise through the heat of summer in central Ontario. Of course, in 1975, there was no such thing as a sports bra.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 07:23 PM

I apologize, Steve, and all other guys, for my rude language up-thread.

Let me clarify my post of 09 Jan 16 - 06:10 PM. I don't opine that men should not be posting to this thread but understand how Steve and others who do not like or respect me might take it that way. My issue is not with men posting to this thread. My issue is with the content of what most men have posted.

Some of you guys may have information to share about the comfort and care of bras, or aspects related to hygiene and bras from what your partners, daughters or mothers have shared, your own possible experience with a partner with stinky bras, or if you are transgender and moving from male to female in terms of sexual identity. Did not mean that I believe men have no business posting to a thread such as this.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 07:33 PM

Have 'sports bras' since then been designed that adequately stand up to the conditions under which women in the military or otherwise engaged in strenuous work?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 07:39 PM

Well I neither dislike you nor disrespect you, Janie. You did use language I do not use myself as it happens, but I have a way with words at times that can cut through without recourse to that language. The point is that I was confronting the rather po-faced attitude expressed by a minority of posters here that the men are somehow disrespecting women by posting to this thread. Well I've started many a thread that has cheerfully drifted off into weird regions and I long since gave up on the notion that any poster has the right to dictate what happens in "their" thread. The idea that we should make an exception for a bra thread is, well, anti-feminist. I don't know whether you're a moderator here or not. All I know is that I've had three posts deleted that were far less patronising and disrespectful to women than some of the ones remaining for all to see. It's not my gig and I don't get annoyed about such things, but I do like to exercise my more tenacious instincts when I see silliness being perpetrated. Now let's get back to cups that runneth over.


Oops...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 07:49 PM

"I don't think for a minute that any of you guys meant or mean any harm. But you are not very conscious of what you have done - not surprising - sexual objectification of women is in the very cultural air we breathe. I just hope you think about it."

I have thought it over. I posted to this above, but now, I have thunk about it again after reading your objectification of men and... I like tits. Learning about bras and what you ladies have to put up with is an eye opener for me. So is a nice pair of tits. Well, any tits really. Deal with it. I am MAN... here me snore.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:04 PM

Not a thing wrong with liking tits, gnu. Nothing I posted suggested that guys should not like tits. I surrender. You guys carry on about tits.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:23 PM

Chrissie as a person has nothing to with it. Zappa nailed it.
titties and beer

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:23 PM

Really? I wouldn't even call them tits on a thread like this. I'm far too respectful for that. Is it all right if I tell you I like womanly bottoms too? Preferably on women?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:39 PM

I dont care I had posts deleted on this thread.
The women are absolutely right to object to the content of them,
and correct me for the mistake that a certain kind of British culture humour translates well across the Atlantic.

Sorry ladies.

But Gnu is a sour grumpy self righteous hypocrite.
I guess he knows that.

no big deal

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 08:57 PM

Yes, we KNOW that men in general like breasts and like to make the same comments about one-handed removal of bras and how front-opening bras are more convenient-for them. We have all heard all of those comments so many times before.
So when this all these comments are posted in a thread just because it happened to mention bras, it becomes a real yawnfest.

This thread was begun to discuss practicalities amongst those who actually wear said garments.

So please, chaps, go and snigger somewhere else?
(Or as my transatlantic sisters might say- butt out!)

Thanks very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: LadyJean
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:00 PM

I have long felt that the man who invented the underwire bra should have to wear an underwire athletic supporter.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:13 PM

Lady Jean, I'm actually a fan of underwired bras as they give me better support and shape. There are after all, plenty of unwired alternatives if you prefer them.
It does mean that underwired bras have to be washed by hand though, or the wires slide out and get lodged in the washing machine.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:25 PM

I tried to tell you about the washing machine issue before, but never mind, I'm just a bloke...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:43 PM

The sports bra has been a lifesaver for me, as I, too, have had strap buckles dig into my shoulder while working. I only own sports bras at this point, they're comfortable, easy to care for, and I can buy them for relatively cheap because both Hanes and Fruit of the Loom make decently-fitting, comfortable styles.

Mine get treated the same as my wool hunting socks when it comes to washing - warm water, detergent, dried on low heat. So far, no problems. I do buy bras with a high cotton content due to allergies to most synthetics, and my laundry detergent is a mild, all-natural detergent, again due to allergies.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: vectis
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:49 PM

Like many women who have spent most of their life with smaller breasts (until after sprog 2) I didn't bother with them once I had got through the 'padded bra because all the other girls have curves and I don't' stage of life. I am always aware of wearing one when I do so I suppose I am unused to them really.
When I do wear one for 'best' I have 3 fitted M&S ones that are not too uncomfortable to wear and do give a decent shape to the outline, as it were. For other times when out and about and feeling I need to conform I tend to slip overs or sports type bras.
For washing, mine go in with the light colours after one or two wear days but they are not full days because, once at home, the bloody bra is the first thing off!

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:56 PM

Gonna disagree with you, Guest, hiding behind Guest. In my experience Gnu is a solid, lovely old soul. Not a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:57 PM

I'll just add that it is entirely conceivable that a generation of men
who grew to maturity through, learnt from, and were inspired by feminism of the previous generation
can still enjoy glorifying and enjoying the female anatomy - even joking about it -
without being guilty of crude simplistic unintelligent objectification.

Some of us now live in a progressive era where post feminism, post modernism, post irony, post whatever else you can think of,
kinda make shared human existence a damn sight more complex and interesting.

... alternatives and possibilities rule amongst the educated and enlightened sectors of society...

Yes even modern powerful women and us 'sensitive sympathetic new male feminists'
can still find some sort of transgressive fun in old dumb "Carry On" movies culture humour.

The mature woman in my life who has an MA and a high responsibility professional career
insists on having me touch, fondle and cuddle, those intimate parts of her several times daily.
She also near pisses herslf laughing at vintage stereotypical 'sexist' sitcoms and movies.
We met as left wing humanities student in the politically hot house early 80s.
After 30 odd years together, we have negotiated a fairly stable truce between the male and the female.

But sadly, we are aware that outside our cosy little private world,
vast sections of mass society still fester shit misogynist attitudes towards women...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 09:58 PM

15+ years ago, there was This thread on similar topics. Scroll way down to
Subject: RE: BS: The Other Breast
From: Bill D - PM
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 07:33 PM
where I noted a book I own. It started quite a discussion between myself & katlaughing. I'm sorta sorry now that she never got to see the book.

Even then it was difficult to keep the posts 'light'. It seems some men simply can't handle the topic without drifting into salacious mode. It's too bad, because as this thread shows, there are times to 'appreciate' and times when the issue is...different.
I am male... I can admire & appreciate... but I CAN turn off that mode. I spent 2 days telling myself I would NOT post, but 50+ years of commiserating with various women about their problems with comfort levels leads me to post my hopes that from here on, we can allow women.. those who care to... to share information without smarmy remarks and bad jokes.

*further, deponent sayeth not*

---

Ironic. What goes around, comes around. Eventually. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 10:02 PM

.. and I'm glad I don't have to wear a bra yet... 😜

ps.. I've got no real beef with gnu.. but i do think he aint been entirely unhypocritical in this thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 10:39 PM

I'm in the same boat as you, vectis. But I find even sports bras to feel smothering, like a compression bandage around my rib cage. I can tolerate cotton, but not the synthetics.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 10:42 PM

Thank you Bill and punkfolkrocker.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 11:04 PM

Thank you LadyJean, Noreen, Ranger!.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 11:08 PM

and vectis.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 11:13 PM

Geezer nobody can take a joke anymore without being called a sexiest creep. All us guys no matter what age are still high school teenagers, we will never out grow it. But no one here is disrespecting any ladies on the post. Gosh if someone wants serious discussion why start a thread on it, just pm other ladies. Of course I like most here thought it was just a playful thread and sorry If I offended anyone with my twisted humor. Good grief

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,🐩
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 11:17 PM

[ Hello mudelf - just noticed your above amended comments..

I'm always aware my IP is a dead give away, whether I forget to type a name at all, post as prf, or the odd daft joke name.
I might be a bit of a dick at times.. but I'm not a really nasty person.

Unfortunately i can no longer blame cider for the odd stupid misjudged indiscretions, since I mostly packed in drinking...

except for seasonal holiday binges...

So there you are.. this is me.. sometimes incisive and perceptive.. sometimes a bit of a twat... but I'm fairly clean and house trained... 😜]


... for some odd reason women have always seemed to like me...???

---

If your wife hasn't killed you by now, we're not going to either. Never thought you were nasty, but you do sometimes lead with your chin - making you conspicuous. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Hollowfox
Date: 09 Jan 16 - 11:23 PM

A question to GUEST: a member. Why do you want to know?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 12:55 AM

From: The High Executive Council, Temple of the Divine Curve
To: All Concerned

Re: Bra Thread Ripostes

We of the BRotherhod of the DIvine Curve try to stay upfront about things, as you know from our long and glorious history. But as the revered Founder, who invented the brassiere, once said, "A place for everything, and everything usually in its place".

We charge our members to treat this thread and the subject on which it touches with respect, courtesy and the civil conduct it deserves. The topic into which some have tried to turn it is a subject of reverence and esteem, not to be touched on lightly, and certainly not to be dragged about by lascivious guttersnipes.

Sincerely,

Fra Holy Golightly, Chief Interlocutor
Temple of the Divine Curve

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punk👙folkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 01:21 AM

see.. the venerable Amos sort of says, though far more eruditely, more or less what I touched on
in my earlier deleted post
devoted to worshipping an all inclusive religion founded on the splendiferous form of the holy bosom...

Quote..

"Everybody loves boobs.

Men, women, straight, gay, everyone just loves boobs.

Boobs are the universal unifier of human kind.

Boobs could stop wars and bring eternal world peace, harmony, and prosperity.

Praise be to the positive healing energies of boobs.

If Boobs were a religion, I'd want to be a prophet and write the bible of boobs."

Ok.. I acknowledge.. it could have been drafted better..
it's not that funny [gnu was right] or clever..

But it's heart felt and genuine...


Maybe our pagan earth mother worshipping forefathers were on to something long lost but now so much needed... ???

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Janie
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 02:14 AM

One problem with bras is the assumptions bra producers make about the relationship between rib cage and breast/cup size. Would not be such an issue if the width of the band were uniform, but they are not. Good luck with finding extenders that match the width of the band at the same shop one finds a bra that otherwise fits. At least in the USA. Don't know if women across the pond experience the same frustration. Know from my sis and other friends that this is a common problem on this side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 02:41 AM

When my father first married my mother, I was told, he would complain that when she got together with her five sisters, all they ever talked about was brassières [as they were called, in full, way back then]. So one day her youngest sister, my Auntie Rosalind, greeted him as soon as they met on some family occasion, with "Hello, Harry · brassières! brassières! brassières! There, that's got that off my chest!" Whether she intended any overtone in that last exclamation, or whether it was merely adventitiously appropriate, I have never been quite sure.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 02:46 AM

One of those transatlantic semantic differences, BTW [I once OP'd a thread about such], is, I believe, that that full name for the garment in question was pronounced in UK with emphasis on first syllable [BRA-zee-er, with short 'a'], but in US with emphasis on the 2nd [bre-ZEE-er].

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 02:46 AM

I came back here before bed with an idea for another facetious post to annoy the 'authorities'..

but..

In the UK we have a chain of high street retail stores - Marks & Spencers..

for many decades purveyors of comfortable wholesome underwear.
not cheap.. used to be better..

got a vague memory mrs punkfolkrocker once had a fitting with a specialist bra consultant...

that is actually a genuine profession and they are out there somewhere...


ok.. maybe shouldn't but what the..

Last mammogram my lovely lady was told she has a breast mass which is unusually too young for her actual age..

apparently that's good and positive.. we're happy..

I'll give them a cuddle for mudcat and think deep thoughts to pass the positive energy on forwards...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 03:11 AM

And here's me, as ever, complaining that some on Mudcat refer to the poster not the content.

And yet referring to the contents gets you a black mark on this thread.

Mrs Musket is a consultant breast surgeon so the contents of bras can indeed inform our small talk, especially on the "so how was your day." One thing I do know, and the hopes and concerns of many of her patients will reinforce this; men are hard wired to be attracted by them in the same way as a peahen is attracted by a peacock's plumage.

You can't buck Darwin.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 03:19 AM

Re PFR's post just above:- My mother, way back in the 1950s, used to have her bras custom-made by a specialist lady in Kensington, whose name is on the tip of my memory, but I can't quite recapture for the nonce. I will return with this essential info if it comes back to me -- I know you are all breathlessly anxious to have it.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 03:29 AM

Hurrah! It's come back to me. She was called Mrs Horngrad.

There; happy now?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 03:35 AM

And yet if I portrayed you as having to think for a while before recollecting...

Here! Wasn't she married to Mr Horngrad?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 06:43 AM

Presumably. What of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 08:33 AM

A question to GUEST: a member. Why do you want to know?

Well, because I want to know. What got me wondering was jock straps. I'm pretty sure the guys don't wear them once and then wash them, either.

At one lingerie-care site, I read that we should let a day pass before re-wearing a bra, to let the elastic rest-- that this extends the life of the elastic. Till then, I'd always washed them after one wearing, and assumed everyone did.

For me, it's the wear and tear on the elastic that becomes an issue. This is because I wear mine extra snug and-- since they are all front-hooks-- once the elastic starts to go, my headlights start pointing off center. On a front hook, the cup spacing tends to be a bit wide, to allow for several sets of hooks. My size is such that if I get the right cup size, I tend to get a looser band than desired- and there go the headlights, sideways. (I'm already at the max cup size available for the right band length.) Right now, my favorite bra has only one set of hooks, and I get a nice cleavage-- I'm not into lift and separate. (Just the lift, please.) But the straps are too short on that style, so they aren't the ones I chose to have lots of, and they only came in hot pink.

For me, the ideal bra would be 3/4 longline, front hook, proportioned with a longer back band section and a shorter front section of band-- I'd move the cups forward on the band, to keep my headlights pointing where they belong, but that is not a reasonable alteration to attempt and custom bras are VERY expensive!

So I wear them twice, with a day between; on sweaty days I add a thin cotton liner in front. To do this, I suspect I have more bras on the shelf than others: I have 3 VERY expensive ones for special occasions, 2 of the hot pink with straps altered to wear with sweaters, and 6 everyday whities bought on extreme sale that are like sports bras but hook in front instead of going over the head. And all these are rotated-- after the first wearing they are hung to air dry. The everyday whities are washed weekly (gentle, cold), in a lingerie bag, and hung to dry. ($30 bras for about $7 each.)

Someday I will have the custom bras. I'm getting closer to knowing exactly what I want-- how to describe it-- and I know who I want to produce them. I don't know how many I will need, yet, but wearing them twice per wash is what will make it work.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 08:59 AM

Interesting how few (any?) women posted on the Men Only Please thread and how many men posted on the Women Only Please thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 09:16 AM

Well as the other thread is mine I am now deigning to modify the sentiment in my title, thus:

"Men only, please, except women." Any moderator or elf or elfess has my blessing if they'd like to retitle the thread. Or we could combine the two threads and call the new one "Knickers, knackers and knockers." Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 11:54 AM

Cosmo Smallpiece Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 11:58 AM

"Guest - a member": For your own sake, find a better underwear emporium and buy a bra that fits.

Around here, the chain stores stock nothing -- NOTHING -- with cups larger than DD, which is fine for the fashionable young women who constitute their most-favoured clientele, but inadequate for wide swaths of the rest of us.

I patronize Ottawa's best underwear shop because it offers a good selection of bras in my size, which is 34G. Until that joint opened for business, I literally never had a bra that fit, usually settling for something with a band in the 38 to 40 range that would spend most of the day lodged up around my shoulderblades. The alternative was a 36 or 34 DD bra that made me look as if I had four tits.

Buying a bra entails a trip across town, the full Trial By Fitting Room experience and a hell of a lot of money, but at least I get one that does the job and does not feel like an instrument of torture.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 12:10 PM

A good few years ago now, after losing some weight I treated myself by going into a specialist lingerie shop. I'd never dreamt of going somewhere like that before- everyone I knew just bought their bras from M&S and guessed at the size by trial and error.
This lovely shop was well staffed with helpful assistants who offered a measuring and fitting service. I'd never heard of this before, but they were so matter-of-fact about it, there was no embarrassment.

A tape measure was used, but mostly estimation of size was done by an experienced eye. The assistant fetched a few bras to try on, and then "fine-tuned" the fitting from how they looked on. It wasn't just the written size, but also the make, as she knew from experience that certain makes are more suitable for certain shapes.

I'd gone into the shop wearing a 40C and I came away with three bras (expensive but worth every penny) size 34E, far better fitting and giving a nicer shape.

It is said that most women are going round in the wrong size bra which doesn't surprise me, as your size changes with adding/losing weight, pregnancy, hormone changes etc.
I have since taken my daughter and daughter-in-law to the same shop, and it's about time I went again.

I'd definitely recommend every woman to get a proper fitting such as I had, every once in a while. It does wonders for your self-esteem to know that everything is being supported and presented in the best way possible :)

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 12:16 PM

Charmion- two minds with but a single thought!
We were thinking and posting at the same time :)

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 12:36 PM

Noreen - Indeed. We have been living parallel lives, at least with respect to underwear.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 01:20 PM

The religion described upthread has been established for some years.

It is known as the Temple of the DIvine Curve, are sometimes as the Temple of the Golden Globes. In some circles it is known by less flattering terms, also.

You can read its history in this thread.

Fra Tacitus Gentilissimus, Librarian and Historian
Temple of the Divine Curve

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 01:42 PM

I have had proper fittings, thank you very much. I still hope to get replies to my questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 03:47 PM

OK then- straightforward answers to your questions:

I have three everyday bras to hand, but one of them is my favourite which I will wear in preference to the other two as it's comfortable and the best fit.
I will often wear that one for three or four days unless I've been particularly hot and sweaty, wearing one of the others until the favourite has been handwashed and dried over the bath.

I have another low-cut, pushup one for "special occasions" and low necklines but I don't feel so secure in it for everyday, as you will understand, ladies.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 10 Jan 16 - 06:16 PM

Thanks Noreen!

Here are some of the online thoughts about not over-washing:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/77284-how-many-times-can-you-re-wear-a-sports-bra-the-answer-is-gross-but-not

https://customerservice.victoriassecret.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/562/~/how-long-should-my-bras-last%3F

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3854055

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jan 16 - 02:23 PM

Due to polymyalgia rheumatica, I've not been able to wear normal(?) bras because the pressure they put on shoulders and ribs is excruciating. So I wear stretch cotton rich sport bras. 2 times wearing then wash on delicate and hang to dry. I also wear a (fresh every day) 100% cotton liner (I made them from pillow cases which have gotten a bit thin) beneath because any elastic exposure makes me break out in rash. This is a new problem thanks to decade on low chemotherapy.

However, when I am steampunking I do wear a corset, albeit not for very long. So all my outfits work with or without corset.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 16 - 03:01 PM

Two words, Victoria secrets

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Hollowfox
Date: 11 Jan 16 - 03:46 PM

Sorry, olddude, but when I went into a Victoria's Secret store for a fitting. The fitting wasn't thorough, and the shop girl said they didn't have anything in my size. She didn't quite shove me out the door, but she wasn't going to help me any more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 11 Jan 16 - 06:09 PM

Hollowfox, yes, the VS commercials aren't well represented in the stores. I took a friend there once for something special for her honeymoon, and ended up being the salesperson. No customer service at all.

Many stores advertise fittings but only measure band and cup and then you're pretty much on your own. The Double Diva fitters (LivieRae) are not everywhere, but when I'm ready I'll do a skype fitting with them and mail them my best-fitting bras so they can go Frankenstein in a final custom design. If they make one I like, then I'll order a boxful.

Charmion, I'm happy for you that, in your market and size, you can get a good fit. That's not my case though! ;-)

VT, yes, liners are the bomb for those of us with the need for extra absorption or avoiding synthetics. I often carry a few in my purse in the summer. (Paper towels are so scratchy!) Mine are simple cotton rag rectangles torn from percale sheets-- no hems-- folded once and tucked in. Don't want to trap moisture in the extra layers of hems.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 11 Jan 16 - 08:51 PM

wtf is steampunking?

Re. bras----
I have NEVER worn underwear two days in a row! (would rather go without if it came to it))
There have been many days when I changed underwear during the day eg after work -- or even at lunchtime on hot sweaty days -- -!

Can highly recommend The Cat's Pyjamas in Helensburgh, excellent fitting service and quality stock - and sales (one on right now) so you can purchase your Prima Donnas and Fantasies at more reasonable prices.

Always hand wash bras using delicate fabric soaps or detergents.

- The only problem with Prima Donnas is they never wear out; they may gradually fade away a bit, but are still perfectly functional (unless you have radically changed shape/size)- sorta the Rolls Royce of bras.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 04:06 AM

I have ten white bras and have a clean one every day.
I wash them at 30 degrees and dry them on a radiator in winter or outdoors on the line in summer.
They are a cotton/polyester mix, and underwired.
But I have never found a really comfortable bra. I am size 34F, and need quite a wide band/straps to prevent it riding up/cutting in.
Now I have an added problem in that my tendonitis means I can't reach behind to fasten the bra, and my husband has to 'do me up'.
I've been looking online for ages for front fastening bras, and there are lots. BUT size 34 band ones only go up to a cup D. I've even considered sewing a fastening into the front by cutting the material between the cups.
My husband goes away for 5 weeks this summer, and I can hardly ask my neighbours to 'do me up' every morning. And I can't wear the same bra until my husband gets back. I shall have to go bra-less and they will be swinging round my knees after 5 weeks.
I can't even do it up in front then slide it round to the back, as my arthritis/tendonitis makes this far too painful.
Any ideas anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 06:00 AM

(Fools rush in...)

I find the concept of wearing for a second day any garment that has resided next to my skin utterly disgusting. Socks, undies, shirts, t-shirts, straight into the laundry basket at bedtime. If I know I haven't got a clean replacement, a quick hand wash before retiring, but I usually manage to plan ahead better than that. And I have two showers a day without fail and I never use deodorant, stuff which I regard as an abomination. We have soap in Cornwall.

(He ducks...)

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 06:23 AM

Eliza, have you tried putting it on low, backwards, straps dangling, to do up the hooks in front, then turning it round to fall into the cups and raise the straps? Failing that, alteration to convert to front hooks is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 08:41 AM

I agree that would be an idea, Guest, but I've tried that and turning the blooming thing round was too painful.
My husband says he'll set up a rota for our neighbours while he's away.
The gentleman next door to do it up in the mornings, and the old boy over the road to undo me at night!

I have thought of something else. If I get a front fastening in, say, a size 36 band (which they make in cup size F) I'm handy with my needle and could sew folds on both sides to reduce the band to a 34. Bit complicated, but perhaps a solution nonetheless!

I agree with doing an extra rinse in the washing machine. Modern detergents are ferocious, and seem to cause terrible irritation if traces are left in your underclothes. I always do an extra rinse, just to be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 08:54 AM

Like Hollowfox, I got the bum's rush at Victoria's Secret. Not only am I bigger in the chest than their ideal customer, I am also too demanding: I won't buy a bra that itches or grabs, and I insist on "bon rapport prix/qualité", as we say around here.

Steve, if I took two showers a day with soap, my skin would come off in sheets and shreds.

Female skin tends to be drier than male skin, and the sweat of women -- even from feet and oxters -- is less pungent than that of men. After menopause, the difference is even more marked. (How do I know this? Several years of life in barracks and work in hospitals, not to mention years and years of family laundry, plus frequent use of a women's locker room that is both crowded and not particularly clean.)

Before you ask, let me hasten to reassure you that our shit stinks just as much as yours, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 09:38 AM

Eliza, careful-- cup size is not absolute but gets bigger with a bigger band size. General rule is go up by 2" on band, go down 1 cup size (and vice versa). So-- try one or two fixers before buying in bulk.

Also, tightening the band where it's easiest to do it (because of how they're constructed) may change your headlights' aim. To keep straight, two small tucks right under the cup can be done without significantly tightening the cup itself. Also, if you don't mind the look, make the tuck fold seam to the outside, not the inside, to reduce skin friction.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 09:52 AM

Well I don't actually use a bar of soap, in spite of what I said about having soap in Cornwall. Nothing with added perfume of any kind ever touches my skin. I use Simple shampoo both as shampoo and as my "shower gel." I get bottles of it for a quid a time at Poundland. Very gentle, no perfume, no conditioners. The main function of conditioners is to bung up the plug holes once every three months. No split end was ever mended by a conditioner. Extra rinses were mentioned. If I don't give my wash at least three or four extra rinses I get dermatitis in several delicate areas. Washing machines are useless rinsers* and modern detergents are extremely harsh, what with added brighteners, colorants to make them look nice, perfumes, bleaches and enzymes, none of which were even remotely designed with the health of my skin in mind. I don't know much about differences between male and female skin but I do know that it's almost certainly best to avoid bombarding either with chemicals that are designed to sell products rather than look after you. As for your final remark, increase your fibre intake and open the bog window.

*Next time you do a towel wash in your machine, try this: take one clean towel from the wash and give it a good, vigorous hand rinse in a bowl of clean, lukewarm water. You'll be horrified at the soapy smell and the amount of detergent that is still in there, ready to be rubbed briskly into your open pores next time you get out of the bath.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 10:43 AM

Ah yes, Guest, I'd forgotten that. So I'd need to get a size 36 with cup E, and sew a small pleat under each cup. Or maybe reduce the band behind so the 'headlamps' were still facing forward?

I'm beginning to think the two neighbouring gentlemen might be the best idea so far. I could keep all my own bras and the chaps could have a nice cup of tea and a buttered crumpet after their bra duties.

I find Triumph and Playtex the best makes of bra. Triumph do one called 'Doreen' which for some reason always makes me giggle. It's built like a cast-iron suspension bridge, and is their all-time best-seller. But sadly it's a total Passion Killer. I've caught my husband glancing wistfully at the window of the Ann Summers shop. I bet they don't sell 'Doreen' in there!

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 11:58 AM

Eliza, if it were me I think I'd try a few alterations AND be sure the neighbors are on standby. For me the independence would be important!

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 12:47 PM

I recommend Oilatum Shower gel / emmolient. Fragrance Free is best.
The Fragrant version is just about tolerable for my skin.
It's bloody expensive to buy over the counter, but I've got Oilatum on prescription [prepaid prescription card nowadays]
for all my adult life.

30 years ago it was a messy liquid, now the tubes of gel are very convenient.

I've rarely had a day without some skin irritation or patches of eczema all my life.
Oilatum is the only wash product I've found my skin tolerates.

Which was a problem a couple of years ago when corporate reorganizations put it off the market for about 9 months....


..and Tesco non biological clothes washing tablet,
with several extra rinses afterwards.
Washing my all cotton clothing can take at least 4 or 5 hours for some sessions...

Not particularly green or cost efficient.. sorry environment...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:12 PM

Yeah, definitely only ever non-bio and plenty of rinsing. I hate any kind of perfumed product anywhere near my skin. All I want to smell of is me.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:13 PM

Well I don't mind occasionally smelling of someone else...

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:17 PM

I have actually washed our clothes in the machine with no detergent at all, just plain water at 30 degrees. And amazingly, they seemed to come up quite well. Drying them outside in the sun brightens them up. It wouldn't do for my husband's working clothes, but maybe we don't need these chemical pollutants?

We like to change our underclothes each day, so that's why we both have about 6-10 of each item.

I'm wondering if I could get away with wearing no bra at all over the five weeks? I'm not uncomfortable without one, just a rather funny shape and a bit wobbly. I doubt if anyone would notice, and even if they did, I'm too old to mind much.
Many women in other lands and cultures don't wear the things. If it doesn't cause discomfort, perhaps we could discard them?

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:45 PM

First: I am totally disgusted with the men who seem to feel they should horn in regardless of the polite request. I checked out the "men only" and no women were so insecure as to have to post something there. So, I come back here and find the scuzzes have continued their interruption - just like men do in reality! What this means to me, other than the ignorance of the men, is that I have to waste time plowing through the male posts to get to the meat of the subject. The lot of you, even after being asked repeatedly, do not have the decency to bug off!

For me, you have totally destroyed what might have been a useful thread.

Forget second: I totally annoyed; not cute, not funny, just plain pitiful and rude.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:52 PM

"Wearing a bra does more harm than good - it does nothing to reduce back pain and weakens the muscles that hold up the breasts, resulting in greater breast sagging, Jean-Denis Rouillon, a sports science expert from the University of Besançon, France, reported after a 15-year study."

"Medically, physiologically, anatomically - breasts gain no benefit from being denied gravity. On the contrary, they get saggier with a bra."

Bras Make Breasts Sag, 15-Year Study Concludes

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 01:55 PM

What men, Dorothy? We live in an era, recently with Bowie and now post-Bowie, in which gender boundaries have all but disappeared. You can tell those of us with blokes' names that we're not welcome but you can't tell us not to post. That goes against everything that this website stands for and is, well, anti-feminist. And you're welcome to post on my thread anytime you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 02:14 PM

Dorothy - my last post was a positive constructive contribution of a non gender specific product
that is very relevant to this latter part of the conversation
and hopefully of help to fellow skin condition sufferers...

So please kindly take your severe self obsessive disgust,
and your exclusive, divisive gender intolerance
and perhaps bury it in the dark sunless hole universally shared by all human kind..


Thank you



.. and that was the polite version... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: JennieG
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 03:58 PM

Eliza, do you have anywhere near you (or reasonably convenient) which caters to people with disabilities? You wouldn't be the only woman with a similar problem, and I wouldn't mind betting that there could be a cunning little gadget which could help. Even a store selling medical aids (gadgets to help put on shoes and socks come to mind) may have something.

A song from my childhood was "Do your ears hang low......." - for a giggle, replace 'ears' with whatever you like, and swing your way through life.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 05:11 PM

Good idea JennieG! I'll investigate that.

I actually wonder if I could just go without a bra for the five weeks. It would be interesting to see if it mattered.

In Africa, loads of women don't wear a bra, which means they can nurse their babies unimpeded. And bare breasts are seen quite often. The men there seem completely unmoved by them. How was it decided that we westerners should hoik up our busts to an unnatural position, rather than leave them as they are? I've never suffered from back-ache, so apart from 'hanging low' as in your song (tee hee) I can't see much of a problem.

Bras are blooming expensive too. My sister has never worn one, but she's a 32AA, so not the same as me.

Subject: RE: BS: Women Only Please
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 07:57 AM

FAO Gallus Moll

Steampunk is a scene based upon a genre of science fiction that typically features steam-powered machinery rather than advanced technology. Players dress in Victorianesque duds, create marvelous investions typically incorporating recycled items (my mobilbity scooter doubles as a time machine), put into practice the highest courtesy to all people, and engage in all manner of shenanignans, such as Bumbmershoot Bartitisu, Tea Duelling, Hat Stacking. In short our motto is "Be Splendid." And it means to be splendid in word, deed, and dress.

FAO guest-member
Re the bra liners. I make a full shell with shoulder straps so I am fully protected from any synthetics in the sports bra.

Subject: any mod help request
From: GUEST,a member
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 04:12 PM

Ladies, thank you for your answers and discussion. Mods, let's close this thread now.