BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 02:28 PM

"If the stuff we buy from abroad has just got dearer then we either buy less or look for and buy UK alternatives

Great advice for musicians, and anyone active in audio, recording, and media production....

The last british manufactured equipment many of us could actually afford was approx 35 years ago... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 03:23 PM

buy UK alternatives

assuming, of course, that there are any.......

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 03:23 PM

Are you " active in audio, recording, and media production" pfr? I mean in any sense that would be of any importance to the country.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 03:33 PM

"If you don't like the result?? TOUGH."

Nope. Time for you to shoulder your responsibility and make this work rather than gloat. Time to show your mettle.

Also, your link returns a 404.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 03:57 PM

I have been shouldering my responsibilities for over 50 years Stu, and have not made too bad a job of them. Besides I am not the one complaining about the referendum or the result. Others here were of the opinion that a Remain vote was so certain they even posted before the result was known that those Brexit supporters should show their respect for democracy and bow to the "will of the people" - but of course they are and proved themselves to be great believers in "One law for the Goose another for the Gander" such is their commitment to democracy.

Of course it is going to work irrespective of whether or not the UK is in or out of the EU. Hell if a decision to trigger Article 50 was taken in the UK tomorrow we would still be in the EU for at least the next two-and-a-half years, possibly three. Its the likes of you who appear to be running around like headless chickens bemoaning ills that have not even presented themselves so far. The world is a big place, far bigger than Europe, over the last three years our trade with that world has been ever increasing, while that with Europe has been declining. Easier for us negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world as a member of the EU? Don't make me laugh, ask Switzerland and Singapore who have in the last couple of decades made five times the number of foreign trade deals than the EU have - WHY? because they can do so without recourse to asking anyone else's permission to do so.

The link? cannot think what went wrong with it - but it is from the Guinard - basically tells you that the FTSE has risen about 5.5% since the referendum result became known - some drop in two weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 03:59 PM

"Are you " active in audio, recording, and media production" pfr? I mean in any sense that would be of any importance to the country."...??????

Are you making a point that is any way not dismissive and condescending to all of the amateur and semi pro, and most pro artists here at mudcat...???

Do we have to be awarded a Queens's honour to count as worthwhile for the nation...???



Why are you here at a folk music site...???

after all.. what use could music or culture possibly be to outrageously pompous old rules 'n' policies obsessed bureaucrats..???

oh.. of course Trad British folk is perhaps the only tolerable culture for mean spirited nationalists..... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 05:43 PM

I mean in any sense that would be of any importance to the country.

Amusing coming from a person of no importance whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 06:49 PM

Well GregF, pfr put that up as a possible reason for someone to evaluate as to whether or not it worth while to vote Remain or Leave. IMHO it would not make the slightest difference if one was "active in audio, recording, and media production" as the consummate professional anyone calling themselves a punkfolkrocker they would insist and ensure that they had top-line equipment in order to keep themselves "active in audio, recording, and media production" world. Personally, as someone of absolutely no importance at all, who has shouldered all of their responsibilities for as long as I have, I would imagine that many other criteria would feature long before considerations relating to being "active in audio, recording, and media production".

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 07:03 PM

Why do I think I am reading a bitter and twisted old man?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 07:37 PM

Raggytash wrote: Why do I think I am reading a bitter and twisted old man?

Because you wrote it?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 07:53 PM

Smug beyond sense & reason...

If Teribus is the kind of nationalist who would enthusiastically conscript young men to fight and die for his beloved nation,
why would he care how many were musicians, artists, poets, and all other useless creative arty farty types....???

I try to look for the best in people,
and although I tend to respect his articulate written skills,
his posts reek of conceit and hostility, portraying himself as a hateful spiteful old man...

So why is he even a mudcat member..???
he better have a damn good singing voice, or mastery of a musical instrument
to make up for his apparent contempt for 21st century creative people.....

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 08:15 PM

Teribus - btw forgot to mention.. stick to pontificating on the dreary subjects you claim to have such advanced knowledge of...

Your last post makes you look seriously out of touch and rather silly...


My 'top line equipment' is mass manufactured in the far east.
and is sufficiently state of the art for hundreds of thousands, if not millions
of contemporary UK audio visual practitioners.

What pitiful little that still remains of UK manufacture, is prohibitively priced cottage workshop engineering...
conspicuous consumption status sybols for the elite few.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 08:44 PM

The thing is, Teribus, less than 38% of the total electorate, about 17 million out of 46.5 million entitied to vote, have forced an irrevocable decision on this country. The irrevocable bit is crucial and it's what makes this different from general elections, which, given five years, can be reversed. And that's before we even start to consider the illegitimate grounds on which the campaign was fought, which prioritised feeding prejudice and stoking fear rather than informing people. There should have been a threshold turnout requirement and a threshold majority requirement, and, as the latter involved a suggested massive change to the status quo, it should have been a two-thirds majority at least. Rather than shrugging your shoulders smugly at your "victory," I should like to see you trying to justify the arguments put during the campaign by your side. You could start with the Farage poster. Awkward, eh? It's also notable to see how many Brexiteers are now jumping ship. Boris gone, Farage gone, and, very likely, Gove gone (by design, I'm almost certain), not sticking around to tell us what's going to happen next. Bloody cowards. They've all got what they absolutely didn't expect and now they're running scared.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 09:19 PM

Personally, as someone ... who has shouldered all of their responsibilities for as long as I have...

Do much staring at your reflection, do you Terrinarcissus?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 09:44 PM

It's taken me this long to remember the last British manufactured musical equipment I purchased..

approx 8 years ago, for my 50th, I treated myself to 2 amplifiers made by the Laney, and Hayden Companies.
[managed to get a few hundred quid off each..]

Marketed as made in UK; near certainty they were assembled in the UK from mostly Chinese components.
With a significant retail price mark up, compared to if they had been entirely assembled in China and imported complete.

Personally I think it would be brilliant if 'Made in Britain' meant exactly that,
and we could return to the legendary era of genuine UK Vox, Marshall, Burns, Ferrograph, etc standards of manufacture and affordability.

They weren't the cheapest, but a buyer would be assured they could last decades.

Marshall still make limited runs of real hand build UK amps,
but they are the equivalent of Rolls & Bentley pricing.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 01:58 AM

As you said punkfolkrocker - 05 Jul 16 - 07:53 PM IF Teribus was ..... Fortunately he isn't, I can tell you with 100% certainty that he is no fan of nationalism of any sort and, having been himself a volunteer, would enthusiastically conscript no-one.

Not surprised at all that whatever it is that you have to buy to keep yourself "active in audio, recording, and media production" as a punkfolkrocker comes from the far east in which case the being in the EU is of f**k all help as ever since Lisbon was signed by some secret back door conniving the EU has not successfully negotiated any international trade deal with anyone. The EU as an organisation is corrupt, protectionist, inward looking, unaccountable and inefficient, a cosy club set up solely for the benefit of Germany and France that has wrecked havoc in the weaker economies of the southern EU states - and this you want to shackle us to???

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 02:48 AM

"Besides I am not the one complaining about the referendum or the result."
A hell of a lot of people are - it seems that a lot of people care more about the damage that has been done to Britain by this racist based decision than you do.
I assume that we've finished with the "pensions" bit?
Noticeable that, like all bullies, all you have to do is stand up to them and they do a runner - spineless lot of feckers - all blow and no substance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:42 AM

Steve Shaw - 05 Jul 16 - 08:44 PM

The thing is, Teribus, less than 38% of the total electorate, about 17 million out of 46.5 million entitled to vote, have forced an irrevocable decision on this country.


EHmmmm No Steve, the thing is that on the 23rd June 2016, 46.5 million people in the UK were registered to vote and eligible to vote in the EU Referendum. Out of that number ~17.5 million voted to leave and ~16.2 million voted to remain. Which means that out of 46.5 million people only ~34 million could be bothered to haul their backsides down to the Polling Station to vote, or be arsed enough to post their postal ballot. If you do not vote in a referendum that forces an irrevocable decision on this country then you have got absolutely no right to complain about the result, every single one of those 46.5 million people had their chance to vote 33,551,983 actually took it and cast their votes in the correct manner - That Steve Shaw - is the thing - And the ones who swung it for the Leave Campaign - traditional Labour Voters in England.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:52 AM

Kenneth Clarke

I notice neither of the "opposition" on this forum have made any reference to the words of the Tory Grandee Kenneth Clarke

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:54 AM

The Tory leadership election is a sort of X Factor for choosing the antichrist

For those with a sense of humor and a lesson in character assassination

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 06:20 AM

Any particular reason why anyone blessed with a mind of their own should Raggy?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 06:32 AM

Oh just that he probably has greater access to information and facts than I do. He was not electioneering but speaking privately to a colleague and thus what he said is more likely to be an honest assessment of the situation.

Referring to Leadsom he says "she is not one of the mindless, tiny band of lunatics who think we can have a sort of glorious economic future outside of the single market"

The sort of glorious economic future you maintain we can have.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 06:42 AM

Well that response doesn't surprise me in the least, Teribus. But this is not a game. This is an irrevocable, once-and-for-all decision. It is far more serious even then a general election in many regards. It is also lopsided in that a leave vote is irrevocable whilst a remain vote could easily be (and almost certainly would have been) revisited. The Irish had another pot at Lisbon. The Scots will probably have another pot at independence. But when we're out, were out. No way back, no second bash. You may be happy with first past 50% of those who turned out in this vote but I'm not. The plain fact is that slightly more than one-third of the electorate, who disagree with the overwhelming majority of our elected representatives, are dragging this country out of the EU (and I notice you haven't bothered to address the serious deficiencies of the campaign I mentioned - uncomfortable for both sides but more especially for leave, whose promises on immigration can't be kept). In this country, by the way, if someone doesn't turn out to vote they are not disfranchised. They are permitted the same voice as everyone else. We call that democracy. And in no way am I trying to claim that the 28% who didn't vote would have voted my way. What I am saying is that 38% of the electorate voting leave is not the same thing at all as "the nation has spoken." If you were in a board meeting and fewer than four board members out of ten voted for a resolution, you would not be able to come out of the meeting declaring that "the board has spoken." The 50% threshold for a decision of this magnitude is simply not good enough. Imagine us being dragged into WW3 on the basis of 38% of the electorate choosing war. Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:19 AM

A number of points Raggy -

First:
Most people seem to have better access to facts than you do judging by what you post here.

Second:
Kenneth Clarke is well known for his lifelong commitment to the EU, so hardly impartial, irrespective of who he is talking to on the subject. The person he was talking to by the way appeared to Malcolm Rifkind.

Third:
When have I ever stated any likelihood of any economic future for this country that did not include trading relations with Europe? We just do not have to be in the EU to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:36 AM

I do find it strange that you are one of the people who complain most vociferously against personal abuse but are one of it's main protagonists.

It also seems that you cannot read Teribus.

What Kenneth Clarke said was "she is not one of the mindless, tiny band of lunatics who think we can have a sort of glorious economic future outside of the single market"

We WILL be outside that market and you seem to think we will still be able to trade on the same footing as we do now. We will not. The EU will not allow that, that is one of it's functions to protect those who are part of it, which we will no longer be very shortly thanks to the leave vote.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:51 AM

Steve Shaw - 06 Jul 16 - 06:42 AM

What complete and utter twaddle.

1:   But this is not a game. This is an irrevocable, once-and-for-all decision. It is far more serious even then a general election in many regards. It is also lopsided in that a leave vote is irrevocable whilst a remain vote could easily be (and almost certainly would have been) revisited. The Irish had another pot at Lisbon. The Scots will probably have another pot at independence. But when we're out, were out. No way back, no second bash.

Where on earth did you get that claptrap from? Where does it say ANYWHERE that having invoked Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty that the UK CANNOT reapply for membership of the EU - Go off and check Shaw and you find that nothing about leaving is irrevocable.


2: You may be happy with first past 50% of those who turned out in this vote but I'm not.

Too bad for you then Shaw, we had a referendum on that as well in 2011 and it would appear that you were on the losing side of that one as well.


3: The plain fact is that slightly more than one-third of the electorate, who disagree with the overwhelming majority of our elected representatives, are dragging this country out of the EU

Unfortunately in a referendum the elected representatives have exactly the same rights as the electorate and members of the Lords. The Elected Representatives cannot complain about the referendum as they had to debate an Act of Parliament to hold one.


4: In this country, by the way, if someone doesn't turn out to vote they are not disfranchised. They are permitted the same voice as everyone else. We call that democracy. And in no way am I trying to claim that the 28% who didn't vote would have voted my way. What I am saying is that 38% of the electorate voting leave is not the same thing at all as "the nation has spoken."

In this country if someone doesn't turn out to vote then THEY have squandered their vote and disenfranchised themselves on that particular issue. They are permitted the same voice as everyone else and all the same rights up until the polling stations closed, after which their views as irrelevant as they did not bother to vote. And YES on the subject of Should the UK Remain or Leave the EU then 38% of the electorate voting to Leave DOES show the will of the nation.

5: Imagine us being dragged into WW3 on the basis of 38% of the electorate choosing war. Wow.

Idiotic argument Shaw and you know it - decisions as to whether or not the nation goes to war would never be decided by a referendum by the time the ballot papers had been printed we'd have lost it, you clown.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 08:10 AM

We WILL be outside that market and you seem to think we will still be able to trade on the same footing as we do now. We will not. The EU will not allow that, that is one of it's functions to protect those who are part of it, which we will no longer be very shortly thanks to the leave vote." - Raggy

Show me where I have ever said or thought that - "we will still be able to trade {With the EU} on the same footing as we do now" - I think that you will find that I have stated that the basis upon which we trade with the EU will have to be negotiated and at the moment Raggy neither you nor I know what the outcome of such negotiations will be. That negotiations WILL take place is undoubted - The EU sell more to us than we sell to the EU - which means Raggy if the point is not too difficult for you to grasp, if they do not negotiate a deal THEY end up worse off in terms of lost trade and lost jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 08:33 AM

Your knowledge of Macro-economics seem to be somewhat lacking, so you revert to what you do best which is to shout I AM RIGHT from the rooftops in the vain hope that someone may believe you.

Do you not understand what Kenneth Clarke said, that outside of the single market we will not have a glorious economic future. To put it bluntly we may well be f**ked. We will lose jobs, we will lose job security, we will lose some of the protection in employment that has been fought for.

Not that you will care a toss for the poor buggers who will suffer. I suspect like me, you are retired, collect your pension and live a reasonable life. It is not us that will be one's who suffer but our children and grandchildren.

The one's you and the other out voters have sold down the river.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 08:49 AM

I think it's far greater claptrap to suggest that there's anything other than a cat in hell's chance of us leaving then reapplying. Well I suppose it could happen by the time you and I are 150. 😂 And I was not in the remotest sense suggesting that a war should be entered into via a referendum, simply suggesting a scenario in which less that two-fifths of the country explicitly wanted it then claiming that as the national will. Frankly, the will of the nation has not been proven on the EU, nowhere near. And I'm amazed at your undemocratic attitude as to who has the right to a say in this country. There is no obligation to vote yet there an obligation to pay taxes to pay for government. If I go to my MP's next surgery to protest about this decision, he has absolutely no right to know if I voted or not and he must treat me in the same way as any other constituent of his. If I sign a petition calling for a second referendum there is no qualifying box to tick which asks me whether or not I voted in the first one. Not everyone who fails to vote does it out of laziness or forgetfulness and you have no right to prejudge their motive, or lack of it, for not doing so. If you want to accuse other people of having undemocratic attitudes, you really do need to put your own house in order first.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 08:52 AM

And there you go, prejudging what you think I did in 2011. As it happens, you got that completely wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 09:17 AM

Isn't it odd that a fascist like Teribus who syas we are all subservient to the State yet sets such store about such a small minority - and still refuses to acknowledge the damage done to Britain by this vote (not alone there).
jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 09:48 AM

Why don't you all just stop digging, Mr T is making you look stupid ...and Jim see someone about that Fascist/racist conspiracy theory.

Absolute nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 10:04 AM

Good to see that Teribus's yappy dog is by his side. Bet Teribus wishes he had him better trained. 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 10:08 AM

Ah good heavens I am apparently a "fascist" now am I?

Another baseless accusation to add to the list.

Pray tell where I did state that - "we are all subservient to the State"?

Don't worry Jom, we both know that it is just more of your "Made-Up-Shit" and to date you have never been able to come up with any past examples and nobody really expects you to do so now. The fact that you won't will register with anyone reading this thread.

As for setting store by small minorities of 38% of the total electorate, but 52.2% of those who actually did turn out to vote in the EU Referendum (Biggest voter turn out in the UK since 1992) all that means is that I believe in democracy whereas you and such as you patently do not.

Raggytash - 06 Jul 16 - 08:33 AM - More hot air predictions based on S.F.A.

Steve Shaw - 06 Jul 16 - 08:49 AM - So your claim that the vote to Leave means that it is irrevocable is complete and utter bullshit - thanks for the admission - by the way it was Jean-Claude Juncker who stated that the UK could reapply whenever it wanted to at any point in the future.

"I'm amazed at your undemocratic attitude as to who has the right to a say in this country"

Care to give an example of that "undemocratic attitude"? 46.5 million people had a right to vote, where did I gainsay any of them their right to vote? Very close to 3 out of every 4 people who could vote did. What part of the highest voter turn out since 1992 fails to register with you? Have you complained about and wish to reverse every vote taken in the UK since then?

The only person demonstrating any "undemocratic attitude" is you.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 10:18 AM

apologies for delay.. I slept late after taking sedative antihistamines and forgetting to open the curtains...

Teribus - enjoy amusing yourself so much with my mudcat name..
I've mentioned many times that it was only ever meant as a one off joke taking the piss out of reactionary acoustic folkie bigots..

[my own personal preference is actually for trad folk, sung and played in a simple unadorned trad style, with minimal instrumental accompaniment..]

That was 15 years ago.. I don't even like the name.. but it stuck..
and yet it's purpose continues...

As to why you were fixated on repeatedly copy 'n' pasting "active in audio, recording, and media production"...????

Seems to be just further indication of your prejudices & contempt for activities you consider beneath your position of superiority
as arbiter of what culturally is or not in the national interest...?????

Now on to your lack of sympathy for a hard up hard pressed population experiencing rising prices due to the inevitable drop in value of the £...

An item on my wish list has overnight risen from £16 to £27..
thankfully something I don't need to replace right now.

But as nearly all 'essentials' are manufactured overseas and imported,
and as most of us are already financially overstretched 'recovering' from the banking crisis... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 12:23 PM

"The EU sell more to us than we sell to the EU "

(1) And who is offering to refund me the increased prices due to the exchange rate - not just imported finished goods, but goods that we manufacture where the EU forms part of the supply chain?

(2)At the moment We are only 10% of the EU's potential internal market. Not a big loss to the EU if we don't purchase but a big loss to us if EU doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 02:30 PM

Gee whiz, SPB, don't confuse the T-Bird with the facts, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 02:53 PM

"If the stuff we buy from abroad has just got dearer then we either buy less or look for and buy UK alternatives"


Tech companies blame price rises on Brexit vote

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 03:00 PM

Ah good heavens I am apparently a "fascist" now am I?"
Been here, done that - keep up.
Anybody who believes that the State is more important than the individual or the family is a classic fascist - that's what fascism is.
You've been pretty unequivocal on this on this forum and in the past - getting on our bikes rather than claiming the dole we financed throughout our working lives was your most recent goose-stepping exercise "betraying your country, springs to mind.
You were challenged than and as usual, chose to ignore it, which I took to be admittance of your position.
You have yet to produce one example of "made up shit" - you did a runner each time it was proved otherwise.
"The fact that you won't will register with anyone reading this thread."
It is you pair of clowns (occasionally joined by Bobad the troll) who constantly find yourselves on your own, not me - want to go back to Easter Week, or WW1 or the Famine threads ; the most recognisable picture we have of you is your back disappearing into the distance - (not forgetting your boorishly loutish behaviour.
Try seeing yourself as others see you
Talking of betraying your country - anything on the fact that the Brexit vote has put the UK's existence at risk - another fact you lot have shown a clean pair of heels on.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 02:55 AM

getting on our bikes rather than claiming the dole we financed throughout our working lives was your most recent goose-stepping exercise

Unfortunately though Jom, there are too many turning down jobs to stay on benefits that they themselves have never, ever paid anything into. So when a job that they want does turn up they lose out as their prospective employer looks at their previous track record and then selects another candidate who actually knows what having a job means.

Reality check for you Jom:

1: The world, nor anybody in it owes you a job on your doorstep for one week let alone for life.
2: The individual is responsible for preparing themselves and making decisions to increase their chances and opportunities in life.
3: The Government is responsible for running the country for the continuing greater good of the entire population, it is not responsible for looking after the individual who choses to be idle from cradle to grave. Those who envisaged and created the Welfare System in the UK, if they saw it today and the extent to which it is being abused would throw up their arms in despair.

By all means reintroduce the threads you refer to and I will continue to hammer you on fact, chronology, detail, logic, reason and common sense - beats your biased, bigoted, ill-informed opinion and unsubstantiated twaddle any day.

Greg F. - 06 Jul 16 - 02:30 PM

What facts Greg? So far SPB-Cooperator hasn't supplied any facts that stand up to examination. The answers to his questions however are:

1) Nobody.

2) The UK represented 12.5% of the EU and was after Germany it's biggest net contributor. When the UK leaves the EU that will leave a hole that the other ten net contributors will have to make good - without making some form of deal with the UK that will prove difficult for them. In pure trading terms the UK's trade with the EU per year stands at £228 billion, the EU's trade with the UK stands at £282 billion. Within the EU the UK is Germany's best customer, harm the German economy and the EU is basically toast.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 04:16 AM

A sign of things to come.

Dell Compueter have increased their costs to retailer by 10% as from the 1st July. No doubt a sign if things to come.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/05/dell_confirms_price_rise_post_brexit_vote_as_uk_pound_stumbles/?utm_source=fark&utm_medi




Note that the pound which was trading at 1.30 to the pound is now 1.16 euro to the pound.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 05:47 AM

Out of that £228B, what percentage are UK founded companies, and what percentage are overseas companies that could easily move their manufacturing bases/base of operations to another EU state if UK can no longer provide the convenience of being part of a single market.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 05:52 AM

Bu using langauge like "the EU is basically toast" indicates that, like Farage, you consider the impact on the lives of over 650,000,000 people a big joke. More so, if you consider the reduction of overseas aid and development if we do not continue our contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 08:05 AM

What impact on 650 million people SPB? What will happen to them? Will they all suddenly face starvation? economic ruin? Or will they all still continue to get on with their lives and continue to trade but ignore and forget about paying for a corrupt, inefficient and unaccountable bureaucracy and grandiose dreams about a United States of Europe governed by unelected political shysters aka the European Commission.

Foreign/Emergency Aid? If I were you SPB I'd take a good hard look at what the EU promises to deliver in terms of foreign and emergency aid and what it actually delivers - you will find that they are big on promises and very poor when it comes to following through on them.

The UK contributions to such aid dwarfs payments made by the rest of the EU States. To Syria alone the UK has paid more than the EU's top four donating nations - So please do not throw foreign aid into the argument without first checking your facts.

As to moving operations? Where to? What degree of trust do you have in Juncker and the EU Commission? The British Government cannot meddle with the Bank of England, the EU Commission theoretically is not supposed to meddle with the European Central Bank - but that hasn't stopped it from doing so has it? London is counted as being one of the world's must influential and powerful financial centres (Nothing whatsoever to do with being in the EU) because our laws, legal systems and independence inspire confidence and trust.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 08:39 AM

So Teribus, you seem quite happy to discuss possibilities of what scenarios of what may happen in the future but do not wish to comment on actualities that have already happened, for example The 10% hike in the cost of computers etc from Dell or the 10%+ fall in the value of the pound against the Euro in the last week or the fact that the pound is at a 31 year low against the dollar.

Strange.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 09:06 AM

Teribus - all well and good...

But now try explaining to ordinary family folk, like my cousin - a grandmother holding down 2 exhausting minimum wage part time jobs,
struggling to keep her head above water..

Folk who don't have time or energy for pontificating on political and constitutional bureaucracy and theory,
how sudden [most probably long term ] hikes in the prices of household essentials
are necessary patriotic sacrifices for 'freedom'.....??????? 😣



There is the usual casual conservative lack of sympathy which we are all accustomed to,
then there is downright malevolent callous disregard of the sinister tory extreme right.....


As for Fararge's old cronies.. who's to say there aren't city speculators somehow gleefully profiteering vastly off brexit..???

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 09:26 AM

I was incorrect Teribus, you have mentioned the fall of the pound against the Euro.

It was in a nasty, unnecessary and callous jibe about the value of Jim's UK pension in Ireland.

Unfortunately a somewhat typical comment from you.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 09:44 AM

LONDON — It was only a column in The Daily Mail, but in its way, it told you everything you need to know about politics in Britain these days.

It was written by Sarah Vine, who is married to Michael Gove, a leader of the anti-Europe "Brexit" campaign, and it appeared soon after Britain shocked itself (and the Goves) by voting to leave the European Union.

The referendum threw the country into turmoil, and no one, including Mr. Gove, had a coherent plan for what to do next. But that did not seem to bother Ms. Vine. Yes, she wrote, it is "an awesome responsibility that he — we — are now charged with implementing the instructions of 17 million people." But perhaps more urgently, she went on, the whole affair had messed up her social life and upset her and her husband's political plans.

Article Here

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 12:11 PM

How many computers do you buy a year Raggy? One, two dozen?

In my life I have bought four of them.

As far as the cost of living goes I have noticed no great changes on the staples that would threaten starvation pfr - but then again like Raggy maybe your cousin is a compulsive computer purchaser.

Ah yes I did have a bit of a chuckle at Jom's expense, further gilded by the fact that as my pension comes from abroad Jom's loss is my gain (At the moment about a 12.5% increase Raggy).

Currency fluctuations do not worry me, where we are now is somewhere where we have been before and no doubt will be somewhere again at some point in the future - swings and round-abouts, ups and downs - no requirement for undue alarmist wittering. When I first went to the USA Raggy £1 = $2.40 it may pain you to hear that in the intervening 50 years I did not starve I did not face ruin, none of us are going to suffer any suchlike in the coming couple of years - go tell your scare stories elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 12:33 PM

Teribus - than's for that.. I was feeling a bit nostalgic for brutal uncaring 80s thatcherism.... 🙄