BS: Post-Referendum Racism

Subject: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 03:54 PM

This is what you voted for. Are you proud?



Well?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 04:06 PM

I think a lot of people are beginning to realise that they voted unwisely. There is no prospect whatsoever of immigration numbers coming down, and none of the lying triumvirate (Farage, Gove, Johnson, as if I have to spell it out) will now give any sort of prediction, promise or forecast as to when numbers will come down. Gosh, how different from a couple of days ago. Yet that's what the campaign was about and that's what many voters were suckered into supporting. Interesting times still to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 04:24 PM

I usually wouldn't give the mail the time of day, but watch this space as I will be sharing other examples of racist behavior that come to light through my other social media.

I am generally worried that we may be on the verge of a growth in neo-fascism that is being stoked by the political far right.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 04:56 PM

Get a fucking grip!
Some nutter leaving racist cards on people's doorsteps? how many were there 2, 10. I don't see any signs of Fascism except the lunatic fringe which is always with us.
Lunatic fringes come in all political persuasions, settle down and take you beating like men. Your ideology has been questioned and about bloody time......you have bullied and intimidated for much too long and the dispossessed are showing their teeth.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 05:42 PM

Eastern Europeans are an obvious target, and the fascist victory is obviously going to send the message that refugees have no rights whatever.

A less publicized target: the Irish. How long before they get it? What happens to Ireland when large numbers of them are forced out of the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 06:01 PM

I think some of you are paranoid. You seem to be putting two and teo together and making two thousand. But I do hope that any future got will continue to shelter those fleeing war and violent persecution. But whatever limit may be set , it does not constitute nazism/racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 06:10 PM

Jo Cox isn't around any more to tell you different.

People who launch disavowable death squads of psycho killers know what they're doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 06:14 PM

it does not constitute nazism/racism.

Give it a chance, pete, its early days yet.

Now, about those witches.......

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 06:21 PM

Sounds like wishful thinking Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 16 - 08:31 PM

Just give it time, Ake- its early days yet.

"It ain't over 'til its over". - Yogi Berra

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:51 AM

Nor are paranoid squeals over, from defeated archetypal leftie wankers who fail to get their fatuous paranoid messages across, it would appear. As Ake so rightly sez, "Get a grip!", you Shaws & Co-operators 'n' such; and stop demonstrating your 'oh-so-democratic' credentials by going into coniptions & objecting vociferously whenever the δεμος fail to conform to your prescriptive doctrinaire idiocies. There is something inenarrably pathetic about the way you lot always object to election results which happen to go against your side as being somehow unacceptable, and the way you go on striking these airs of outraged morality, as if only lefties should have democratic rights.

Should be ashamed of your stupid selves; but that'll be the day...!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 02:16 AM

... always reminded of Kingsley Amis's brilliant summary of these, in essay "Why Lucky Jim Turned Right" as

"the massed choir of half a million voices crying in the wilderness"

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 03:19 AM

MGM - when you go off on one of those patronising self indulgent word wanks
it achieves nothing but making you look a bit ridiculous...

Which is a shame because you are one of the mudcatters I respect...



Reminds me.. it was hilarious watching David Starkey on TV the other night being put in his place by a young "Remain" supporter
who object to being so obnoxiously talked over and belittled.

Starkey shut up and sulked timidly for the rest of the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 03:53 AM

"Get a fucking grip!
No Ake - you get a fucking grip
It's about time you came to term with your own racist and homophobic rants.
You are the one who constantly attacks sizeable minorities on this forum, describing one lot as spongers and the other as a disease carrying menace.
These are not a few nutter - they now represent a large section of the British people, tanks to people like you, they probably have for some time.
A couple of years ago a poll carried out in Britain suggested that one in three British people hold racist views - a sizeable "lunatic fringe"   
RACIST BRITAIN
"Should be ashamed of your stupid selves;"
No Mike - you should be ashamed of yourself - Mrs Suss'e plea of "never again, not to anybody" seems to have fallen on deaf ears as far as you are concerned.
This referendum was fought on the basis of pure racist hatred
The political or economic arguments never made sense from day one and the immediate outcome, with Britain running around like a headless chicken administering damage limitation, has proved what a dangerous move leaving was - not one of you has had the bottle to address the fact that it stands to have threatened to destroy The United Kingdom within a day - not one!"
You peoples' response to The refugee crisis, largely caused by the West's predatory attitude to the Third World' is comparable to that taken by the Nazis in pre-war Germany - there it was the Jews who were the scapegoats for German ills, here it is largely the Muslims, with a sprinkling of Poles to add a little flavour.
The world was treated to a display of Little England hating at its very worst.
Europe once again is once again threatened by the rise of fascism and you say nothing - history repeating itself with a vengeance.
Already, there are signs that many of the more astute Brexits are having second thought - that's how it appears from here anyway.
Not the rightist die-hards like you pair, it seems.
You seem to have a very short memory, or maybe comfort takes precedence over history
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:44 AM

Thanks for your respect, pfr. But I can't allow its existence to influence or inhibit my views or expressions.

"I am not bound to please thee with my answers"
The Merchant of Venice IV, i

Regards
≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 05:06 AM

Anyhow, unspecific assertions cut little ice. My comments, revisited, strike me as perfectly cogent and efficiently communicated. Pray expound on or demonstrate wherein or whereby you consider them to have made me appear 'ridiculous', or what constitutes this alleged masturbatory element you purport to observe in them..

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 05:25 AM

I wonder why the phrase "Turgid bombast" comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 06:59 AM

Your pompous avoidance of the realities of this appalling decision is an indication that you know them to be a fact and don't care.
Shame on you again.
Britain has become the doorkeeper to modern European fascism - shame on you again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 07:54 AM

How clever of you, good old Jim, to know with such certainty what goes on in my 〠, what I really know and think.

And for your next trick...?

Sorry if pfr & Raggy [in't it time you trimmed those bloody whiskers!] & Jim & Old·Uncle·Tom·Cobbleigh·&·all don't like my literary style; but it's made me a fair bit of dosh over the years from The Times, The Guardian, Melody Maker, Private Eye, Folk Review, TES, THES, TLS, The Irish Press, Glasgow Herald, The Oldie, Record Mirror, Plays & Players, The Republic of Columbus Indiana ...

So live with it, darlings!

Luvyazall justasame

≈M≈
(Life Associate of the Institute of Journalists)

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 08:12 AM

Are we supposed to be impressed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 08:19 AM

Who gives a flying one if you are 'impressed'?

Go away and trim your silly whiskers, you boring little man...

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 08:37 AM

Without joining in the hysterical language that's being used in this thread, I'd like to point out that the media in Britain, including the advertising industry, has been sitting firmly on the nationalist/fascist horse in the last couple of years. Every second TV ad - for beer, or for washing-up liquid or for strange cooking methods - refers to 'British' or 'the nation'. And, worryingly, maps of 'the nation' increasingly show the islands of Britain and Ireland together as one unit. No thank you.

Here's an example; it's a jokey ad, but it expresses the tone.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 09:17 AM

If we're not supposed to be impressed why on earth do you keep repeating how good you are supposed to be.

In a juvenile I would suggest it was insecurity.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 10:03 AM

Political Race riots are not a hypothetical in the USA. If Britain wants a taste there are some things you should think about.

Once a mob is given permission, rules of civility cease.
Even the normally civil people will participate by looking on and not lift a finger to save the life of another being beaten to death right in front of them.

I have witnessed this phenomenon from both sides, victim and spectator.

The hard core give themselves permission but when an entire society is given permission to defend their fears and prejudice the society has a mob quality that is sudden and surprising.

No one is entirely immune. You behave like a soldier in actual combat for the first time and it is different than you ever dreamed.
Remember what happened to the Tutsi? The genocide was the result of high-risk politics in Rwanda, rather than some revival of "ancient tribal hatreds". .
Fast lane fascism takes as little as 2 years to take hold.
Remember how fast the Hutus

Paranoia is not the issue, it is naiveté

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 10:16 AM

"How clever of you, good old Jim, "
And how cowardly of you to resort to insults rather than respond to what is hapening - or am I making it all up - did I dream that Scotland have called for a referendum and Ireland is considering one.
Are the extreme right wing organisations not gathering their forces to move into Europe, are firms not considering moving out, is Marine Le Pen an erotic fantasy....
What here?
It really can't happen here - can it - not in good ol' Britain.
One of the times when your response acts as confirmation - the right is always right as far as you're concerned..
"Go away and trim your silly whiskers, you boring little man..."
Sad to see someone who showed so much promise lapse into second childhood
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 10:25 AM

Which is a shame because you [EmGee] are one of the mudcatters I respect...

I heaven's name, WHY?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:19 PM

Agreed, Greg. You earn respect. You don't get it automatically just because you're ancient and can write flowery bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:26 PM

It sounds like the cart was before the horse with that referendum - many people didn't understand the racial/social consequences until after the vote. In a radio interview I heard one young woman say that she didn't think her vote would count, so on a whim she voted "exit," but that wasn't what she really wanted. Does she get a do-over? Is it time to pull up her big girl socks and live with the consequences, or will enough people finally realize they didn't take it seriously and ask for a new vote? Referendums are a way to learn the public opinion but it could become a huge see-saw tipping first one way, then the other, depending on passion vs fatigue with the topic. And if they are binding or not. Britain's younger people just learned a difficult lesson - if you don't vote, you lose.

Get your popcorn and settle in to watch, there are going to be some interesting political histrionics on the world stage.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:35 PM

Can't help it... it's the way my provincial respectable working class council estate family brought me up...

"Respect education, achievement, and your elders"

.. of course that upbringing & culture also instilled a healthy sense of mockery for pompous self righteous condescending twattery.... 😜


Sadly since the thatcherite destruction of 'labour heartland' heavy industry and social cohesion
in the regions that are now such sinkholes for despair and thuggish xenophobia,
that culture that produced me is now almost extinct....

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:37 PM

Ireland considering a referendum? News to me! If there were a referendum here, it would certainly be 99% for staying in the EU. Plenty's wrong with the EU - it can be a bully to its weaker members - but that's fixable. A lot of countries floating free with no trading area and making deals with each other and stabbing each other in the back? A lot worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 01:40 PM

I'm reading about horrible things in England. From the Guardian piece 'Racist incidents feared to be linked to Brexit result', some quotes:

==
Fras said the man began quizzing people in the queue about where they were from. "He pointed at another gentleman in front of him and said: 'Where are you from, are you Spanish? Are you Italian? Are you Romanian?' And he said 'No, I'm English'," said Fras.

Fras, a Polish consultant in European educational projects who lives in London, said he was concerned about what incidents like this might mean for those like him who have moved from the EU to Britain.
==
"This evening my daughter left work in Birmingham and saw [a] group of lads corner a Muslim girl shouting 'Get out, we voted leave'," she posted on Twitter.
==
Earlier that day, Faulkner had celebrated the referendum result as a "major victory for the right wing, adding: "Oi Muslims pack your bags".
==
…instances reported of a Polish woman being told to get off a bus and "get packing", of a Polish man being told at an airport that he "shouldn't still be here, that we had voted to be rid of people like him", of a Polish coffee shop worker being jeered at and told "you're going home now" and of Polish children at a primary school crying because they were scared of getting deported from Britain.
==
In a photograph published to Twitter, one man in Romford was shown wearing a T-shirt reading: "Yes! We won! Now send them back".
==
One alleged incident involved men chanting "Out, out, out" at Muslim women and in another he said a man at King's Cross station "yells 'Brexit' in my south Asian friend's face".
==
Daughter tells me someone wrote "[Child's name] go back to Romania" on the wall in the girls toilets at School today.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 01:52 PM

Yup! Boris Nigel Trumpism is ascendant WORLD-WIDE fer shure!

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 03:55 PM

"If we're not supposed to be impressed why on earth do you keep repeating how good you are supposed to be.
In a juvenile I would suggest it was insecurity"
,..,.,
My goodness, there's profound & perspicacious! Was there ever such a pitiful pathetic piddling piece of penny-in-the-slot pussy-collar-gee?

I'm done here. No reason to put up with abuse from most manifest intellectual inferiors like Raggytwit and GregFatuous and Silli·Shaw.

See you sometime on some other thread.

Maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 03:57 PM

Well this is what the leave campaign homed in on. It was their trump card (allusion fully intended), to pander to the most basic and unreconstructed racist instincts of the British people, and it worked. Without the immigration issue, which is temporary (we were welcoming them with open arms ten years ago), the leave campaign would have been routed. But they played this card with all their night and it worked. Which makes Farage, Gove and Johnson a bunch of lying, racist bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 03:57 PM

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wa

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:02 PM

According to reports from the Cambridge News, a number of cards saying "Leave the EU/No more Polish vermin" in both English and Polish were found outside St Peter's school by teaching assistants and students, including an 11-year-old Polish child, who reported they made him feel "really sad".

Many of the reports of incidents seem to show the mistaken belief that EU citizens living in the UK will be forced to leave the country as a result of the referendum result, with instances reported of a Polish woman being told to get off a bus and "get packing", of a Polish man being told at an airport that he "shouldn't still be here, that we had voted to be rid of people like him", of a Polish coffee shop worker being jeered at and told "you're going home now" and of Polish children at a primary school crying because they were scared of getting deported from Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:09 PM

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:13 PM

I do trust that you keep to that promised MGM.










I can only live in hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:44 PM

Oh, dear. Whisker-trimming. Enter stage left, Sweeney Todd, Demon Barber of Fleet Street.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 05:18 PM

This was more or less on my doorstep

POSK London Retweeted
HammFul MPS ‏@MPSHammFul 6h

2/2 and following the incident in King St #Hammersmith #W6 we have also increased our patrols in the area
41 retweets 20 likes
POSK London Retweeted
HammFul MPS ‏@MPSHammFul 6h

1/2 We are investigating the racially motivated criminal damage on a building in King St #Hammersmith #W6 Any witnesses & info pls call 101
144 retweets 40 likes
POSK London Retweeted
Jakub Krupa ‏@JakubKrupa 4h

Flowers from a local resident who wanted to express sympathy with #PolesinUK after racist incident @posklondon today
41 retweets 79 likes
POSK London Retweeted
Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 7h

.@posklondon was founded by the generation who fought with Britain against Nazism and who helped build our inclusivity and prosperity 4/4
161 retweets 151 likes
POSK London Retweeted
Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 7h

We are proud in west London to be the centre for the Polish community in the UK and the home of @posklondon 3/4
129 retweets 134 likes
POSK London Retweeted
Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 7h

This is an outrageous act that disgusts not only me and the Polish community but everyone in Hammersmith & Fulham. 2/4
115 retweets 101 likes
POSK London Retweeted
Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 7h

Hammersmith police are investigating graffiti found on the Polish Cultural Centre this morning as racially motivated criminal damage 1/4

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:37 PM

This isn't a thread about the rights and wrongs of Brexit. It's about the nasty upsurge of racism and xenophobia that seems to have been triggered by the campaigning. The kind of people responsible have always been tgere, but there are signs more of them are feeling it's OK to come out and show their true colours.

It's up to tge rest of us to show them that it definitely is not OK. Decent people who voted or campaigned to get out of the EU - and there were planty of them - should feel at least as eager to counter that kind of thing. In fact that is somethinng which could heal some of the deep wounds that have been caused.

There's a symbol that's starting to spread that Might help. People are fastening a safety pin on the lapel - it,s a symbol of solidarity and opposition to racism. Safety pins hold things together. It's got a history actually, though whether thatt,s where the idea came from, or whether its parallel thinking, I don't know. People in Denmark used to pin them on during the occuppation for the same reason.

They used to wear them tucked out of sightmostly. We don't need to. But I've started wearing one. If it catches on, and people know what it means, it could make the place feel feel a

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:40 PM

...feel a little bit safer for people from abroad who are worried about hostile natives.

And I'm making a point of buying bread from a Polish shop. Tastes better too.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 05:35 PM

I agree with you McGrath, there have always been racists among us, but they seem to have been activated and energised somehow by the result of the referendum.
I'm rather schoolteacherish by nature and being elderly don't much care about being insulted or given a mouthful, so I'd wade in without hesitation if I saw anyone being racially abused in public. I just couldn't turn a blind eye and would have to intervene. No doubt I'd be decked, but we have to get serious with these ignorant bullies.
Luckily, I live in the quiet countryside, but there are racists everywhere sadly.
I think I'll be wearing my safety pin too McGrath. As long as people understand what it means, it would show that I care and would defend anyone if they needed my help.
Having an African-born husband worries me too on his behalf. Although he's a British citizen now with a full UK passport, no doubt the racists would love to have a go at someone like him. I just hope this nasty phase will pass in time and everyone will settle down again!

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 10:19 PM

It seems to be catching on. As well as going viral in social media it's getting a lot of press coverage - and Piers Morgan has declared it is "utterly absurd" which should actually help. (He sneered it was just a way for people to show they weren't racist - which of course is precisely the point, because it can't be too nice worrying the person next to you is racist, if you're an immigrant liable to get abused. Or in fact, whoever you are.)

The good thing about is, it doesn't matter if you voted in or out, left or right. Just that you aren't despicable. And we could do with something to remind us of something we have in common that's worth holding on to.

Here's a Portuguese ad I liked that is relevant:here

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:29 AM

"Was there ever such a pitiful pathetic piddling piece of penny-in-the-slot pussy-collar-gee?"
In the light of such intellectual depth I'm sure everybody bows to your depth of reasoning.
Perhaps it's time that Britain took a closer look at the detrimental effects of higher education
Please Mike - you are becoming embarrassing.
Posted ths on another thread, but I man an elderly Irishman at a session in Limerick of Tuesday; we were discussing the racist attacks on foreigners by Brexits
He said, "They'll get used to it - we had to".
I'm sure many Jews fleeing to Britain from Nazi Europe would have said something smilar.
As we used to say in Liverpool, "Ding-ding - I'm on the bus", eh Mike?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:52 AM

I remember in the fifties and early sixties, living in W London, seeing notices in the windows of lodgings: No Blacks No Irish. And, as you say Jim, the poor souls just had to get used to it. My mum was Irish, and she always took care to modify her delightful, soft accent in public to a slightly 'posh' one, which I hated.

I bet these racist warriors wouldn't dare to shout their rubbish at a large group of, say, Muslims in Bradford, or in a pub in Boston where the Polish folk were numerous. From what I've read, they're picking on defenceless solitary individuals. All bullies are cowards inside.

I think it's appalling enough that people are abused in this way, but even more shocking that they become inured and merely suffer in silence. Nowadays there are thankfully laws against evil racist behaviour. But it shouldn't have to get that far, as all of us who deplore it (and I do believe we're in the majority in most areas of UK) should speak out stridently whenever we encounter it.

And Piers Morgan can go and boil his head!

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:01 AM

By the way McGrath, I thought that Portuguese video was absolutely brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:16 AM

Senoufou, the accent thing is funny. Many years ago I met a teddibly upper-class type, the type of Irish person who has a British RP accent, and hated him on first hearing. My accent immediately became gratingly Dublin, and his more and more awfully-awfully. After about 20 minutes of talking together, and finding that we had mutual enthusiasms and actually rather liked each other, our accents had practically met in the middle!

By the way, I heard Obama speaking today and saying "if Britain leaves the EU". It seems that the political classes are trying to rescue themselves from a disaster.

The British have obviously taken a lesson from the beating given to Greece when the Greeks voted in an anti-austerity government and went straight in to negotiate; by delaying and delaying, they think themselves likely to get a better deal. This may go against them, but it may not.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:40 AM

My mum was from Cork, and I always loved her accent (and that of all my Irish aunties, of which there were many!) I used to stare at her in disbelief when she adopted this lah-de-dah thing when we were out.
But if someone can't speak as they're accustomed to, for fear of persecution and racism, it's a terrible shame.

My Irish cousin was a nurse in London, and I reckon she was 'accepted' (gee thanks!) because of her caring job. ('You can stay here if you're prepared to wash bottoms and clean up sick'.) I've recently seen similar attitudes expressed about finding carers of the elderly, as 'we Brits' won't want to do it for minimum wages', the inference being that it's good enough for 'them'. Same with the field workers in Lincolnshire, cutting cabbages in the bitter cold.

I once had a long conversation with a dreadful South African old geezer, who was lamenting the dearth of 'Blecks' (his pronunciation) to do the menial jobs around his farm, for the equivalent of a fiver a week. I had to fight the urge to punch the lights out of him. He seemed to think I was ghastly for having a black African husband, the racist pig. But I'm savvy, I listened politely, because if you let them yatter on, you learn an awful lot about this type. And it's not pretty.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 07:25 AM

I thought the symbolism of safety pins was that the wearer is someone who it is safe to engage with.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:10 AM

My baptism of fire as far as Anti-Irish racism is concerned was when I worked as an electrician in London.
I was told by one of my customers, "We have Irish neigbours so we always check under the car each morning before we drive away".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:33 AM

"We brits don't want to do it for minimum wages"

I problem is that everyone now expects a life like the one they were promised by the politicians.......a real life with their own house, children a nice car annual holiday etc.

Minimum wages are subsistence wages unless the currency is worth four times its face value in your country of origin......most immigrants are here for economic reasons........I know someone who has been working here for afew years leaving his wife and two children in Poland; from the minimum wage, he has sent home enough to build a new house for his family.........Could any young British couple do that? They lose hope and give up.

The playing field is not level, not even slightly tilted .....it is a fucking cliff face.

We should be training our young people to do real necessary jobs and pay them a decent wage for doing so, even if that means we the comfortable middle class take a hit in the process.

In a Capitalist society soaking the people who produce the wealth is counter productive......you will have to be satisfied with the smokescreen of "personal rights" until socialists convince the "Beast of Muddy Brain" where its interests really lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:02 AM

Times like this I regret not having had military and martial arts training in my youth,
because I can't stand this inadequate feeling of being unskilled and unequipped to do anything
if encountering right wing thugs bullying the defenseless...

At least 10 years ago I was 15 stone of gym bodybuilding muscle
and effectively 'looked' hard and not a bloke to mess with..

It was bad enough on our street when a gang of skinheads moved into a shared house and put up large B*P posters in the windows
directly facing a young black single mum's family across the road...

I felt pathetic, all I could do was send emails to the police,
which seemed to make no difference whatsoever....

Must say I enjoyed watching [safe behind my curtains] them get their comeuppance when they got in a petty row in the street
with the big Scottish bloke they lived next door to..
They cowered like little kids when he produced his baseball bat from behind his back..
Local West country skins looked like they would piss their pants when shouted at in an extremely ferocious sounding broad Scottish accent...
They suddenly became very apologetic and submissive.....

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:27 AM

That is the problem as individuals we do feel powerless, but if there are, say, a dozen people in the street who also feel powerless then the answer is to collectively cooperate to deal with the issue, ie organise, but at the same time resist the temptation to engage in mob rule. Use safty in numbers to voice that fact that their behaviour is intimidatory and won't be tolerate, and if necessary make collective disposition to relvant authroties - eg local CSO,community safety teams.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:39 AM

There you are, punkfolkrocker, these bullies are total wimps underneath. They only target those who can't defend themselves.

I had a wonderful moment in Accra, Ghana. I was there alone, staying at a very nice hotel run by a load of horrible racist white South Africans. The staff were all local Ghanaians. The day I left, a delightful Akan chap drove the hotel minibus to the airport, and on board was a group of these pigs. They started a diatribe about how inferior the 'blecks' were, and how useless and barely evolved, belong in the trees etc. The Akan at the wheel stoically stared at the road ahead. Ghanaians speak English very well, so he understood every word, but didn't want to lose his job. I was at first mortified, then bloody furious. In the end I turned to them and gave them both barrels, I was like a mad woman I was so angry. Funnily enough they cowered in their seats and muttered "Sorry, sorry".
Once we arrived at the Departures terminal they scuttled off like naughty boys, the prats. And the Akan (a lovely round fat chap in traditional robes and a smiley face) gave me a huge hug and a kiss, which I enjoyed very much, as he was rather handsome!! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:00 AM

"I problem is that everyone now expects a life like the one they were promised by the politicians"
Nobody does - who the **** bbelieves anything the politicians promise?
All the workers I ever worked with wanted was enough so as not to have to worry about feeding, clothing and educating their families - it has always been the already wealthy who have sought an income they would never been able to spend in ten lifetimes.
People want what their input into society entitles them to - the Socialist dream "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs".
Jim Carroll
.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:39 AM

I was talking about the not unreal expectations of our young people Jim.......They are being discriminated against by having to climb a cliff before work.

Economic migrants are not living the sort of life our young people aspired to.....often they are young men with small families abroad they live rough and cheap.....who can blame them, but it should not be at the expense of a proper life for our children.

When I started out self employed I had to compete with others working for the same rates and with the same expenses and goals.

Today I could never compete on a financial basis with the Eastern European labour only gangs; most of the ones I have come across are certainly not tradesmen.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:59 PM

Another

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:23 PM

Did you read the comments before posting that co-operator? They explain the situation regarding ID.

Typical scaremongering propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:47 PM

I suppose you are one of those who think we should all close our eyes to racist behaviour - usually the type who are the first to start whining when it happens to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 03:25 AM

I am totally opposed to racism as is any reasonable person Co-operator.

Questioning the wisdom of EU policy on immigration is NOT racism, it has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people involved.

Had the EU consisted of countries with economies which were on a par perhaps free movement MIGHT have been workable, but given present conditions the flood will always move from poor countries to more affluent ones. It was designed by Capitalists as a reservoir of cheap labour, without a thought for social consequences.
Allowing the infrastructure of the immigrants countries to be decimated whist driving down wages in Britain and avoiding the need for expensive re-training and job creation for our own young people.

Of course we value immigration, but only in numbers we can sustain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 03:57 AM

more news

So, who is going to dare to suggest that as the rising racism has occurred post-referendum, because is was a 'democratic' result that the victims should shut up and accept it??????

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 06:09 AM

"Questioning the wisdom of EU policy on immigration is NOT racism, it has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people involved."

Really? Then explain to us the poster presented to us by your hero Nigel Farage. Not only did it depict refugees, not EU citizens exercising their right to free movement to the UK (the people in the picture were nowhere near us and were not heading this way), they were also mostly black. Do you think Nige didn't notice it? So come on, explain to us how it wasn't blatant racism. After all, you want Nigel for Pope/PM/World President/Next Big Enchilada, whatever it was you said, so you should be able to defend him. Out with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 06:18 AM

I bought some safety pins today, and wearing in my button hole/jacket zip pulling thingy in solidarity. - Sorry, not in the material itself as I don't want holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 07:27 AM

I don't need to defend Mr Farage, the country endorsed his views in the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 07:31 AM

Hmmmmmmm Will not or cannot that is the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:08 AM

"I don't need to defend Mr Farage, the country endorsed his views in the referendum."
Not true - many specifically distanced themselves from Farage, many voted out because of the claimed bureaucracy of Europe and said their decision had nothing to do with immigration.
I watched an angry debate conducted by David Dimbleby, where peole were incensed to the point of violence when it was suggested that they were Farage supported
Your statement is typical of the lies that were told to arrive at the result.
Farage is a crypto-Fascist - his own words brand him as such - his behavior makes Enoch Powell look like Mahatma Gandhi
"I am totally opposed to racism as is any reasonable person Co-operator."
Just as you are "totally opposed" to homophobia - of course you are!!
"I was talking about the not unreal expectations of our young people Jim."
Only "unreal" to extreme right-wingers like yourself.
You are, in fact, setting one section of the British people agains another by describing some of them as "a cliff"
1.5 million Brits live and work in Europe - 5.5 work abroad
BRITS ABROAD
Are they the freeloaders and a threat to society as you have described emigrants to Britain?
30,000 Brits claim dole in Europe - all spongers, as you have described immigrants to Britain - if not, why not?
You will not respond to any of these figures, of course - you people never do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:17 AM

safety pins...???

c'mon admit it.. it's an excuse for reliving our punk rock youth... 😎


.. though paper clips were always safer for holding up a dodgy fly zip...


==================================================================



"the country endorsed his views in the referendum."

I only got CSE grade 1 Maths [Double entered and failed the O level - my mate failed the CSE and passed the O Level - 1975 education system]

but even I can recognise that a 4% majority of those who actually voted does not equate to 'the country'.....????

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:21 AM

I asked you to explain how a poster, wrongly depicting mostly black refugees that were not coming to the UK as EU citizens exercising free movement, and endorsed by the man you worship as part of the brexit capaign, is not racist. Now stop evading that question and answer it honestly. Was that poster racist? Was it lying to the people of this country by misrepresenting refugees who were not coming here as EU immigrants? If he's racist (and I think the poster puts him bang to rights), and "the country endorsed his views," are you saying that we live in a racist country and that you're OK with that (after all, you do appear to be his numero uno fan, don't you?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:22 AM

And it was most decidedly a minority of people who were registered to vote, lest we forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 01:13 PM

Even the solitary UKIP MP, Douglas Carswell, denounced that poster on Question Time last night.

But the real drivers of xenophobia has to be recognised as being the drip drip effect of constant headlines in the Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Sun, building up an atmosphere in which the closet racists feel it's OK to come out into the open.
..................
One aspect of migration that seems to be ignored is that, so far as migrant workers in agriculture are concerned, this is largely a continuation of the tradition of such work being done by transient migrants from other poorer parts of the British Isles, rather than of people coming to settle in the country.

And an enormous proportion of other people who have come from Eastern Europe will tell you they have every hope of going home if and when circumstances allow, and long for that day. From most people from all countries emigrating is very much a second best forced on them by economic circumstances. In Ireland, for example, for many years it is common to see emigration as a plague. In bad times it builds to a flood, in good times it falls to a trickle.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 02:45 PM

Apologies for returning to thread I had forsworn; but my attention has been drawn to Jim Carroll's post addressed to me of 0329 on 30 June.

How can he be 'embarrassed' by what I choose to write? What an oddly egocentric response; one of my favourite Dr Johnson quotations may be apposite — "Sir, you may be sure 'twas writ with litle thought of pleasing you". & do I detect a hint of origin-throwing racism in the latter part of his post? I should be distressed to think so & hope I have over-interpreted.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 05:26 PM

I have already rung the Polish Cultural Centre for being white British, which they accepted. Does anyone else have a single ounce of decency to do so?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:13 AM

Why "embarrassed" Mike?
Because I find somebody who once wrote well (and probably still does elsewhere) behaving like a rather infantile name-calling schoolchild, I do find it embarrassing.
"Was there ever such a pitiful pathetic piddling piece of penny-in-the-slot pussy-collar-gee?"
Come on Mike - you are not really at this stage of life, are you?
It is not "racist" to pass on the lesson that was given to me by people who had undergone unimaginable horrors, when they declared that, as victims, they would never submit people of any cultural group or race to the experiences forced on them.
When the Israelis made comparisons of what happened to the Jewish people and what is happening in Israel today out-of-bounds, they certainly knew what they were doing.
As the Israelis have torn up any workable definition of 'Antisemitism' by declaring any criticism of their policy "Antisemitic", I feel justified in arriving at my own definition of the term, so I feel perfectly comfortable in using a comparison now being used worldwide by Jews and non-Jews, including prominent and respected Israelis.
Gloves are off, as far as I'm concerned.
For the Israeli Justice Minister to declare publicly that any criticism of Israeli policy was "Antisemitic" was the final straw - 'Israel uber alles'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:24 AM

Come along children, the poster was obviously intended to be analogous, the winding queue representing a fraction of the immigrants waiting for admittance to THIS country.

Rather clumsy perhaps and ill thought out, but certainly not racist or colour prejudiced.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:38 AM

I beg to differ Akenaton. The poster was an absolute disgrace. Racism in it's most abject form. Earlier back in another thread I placed a link to a newspaper article that showed the poster perhaps you would take another look at it and possibly re-evaluate your position.

Link

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 05:12 AM

Most EU immigrants are white. Most of the people in the picture were people of colour. EU immigrants do not form long snaking queues. The use of that picture was improper and was a clear attempt to mislead and to stoke unjustified antagonism towards foreigners. Absolutely indefensible. "Intended to be analogous" my arse. And do not call us children, you ignorant man.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 05:31 AM

"Come along children, the poster was obviously intended to be analogous,"
The poster was directly appealing to the basic xenophobia of the British people - has anybody else suggested it was analogous or is this something else you's scribbled down on the back of a beer mat?
A Ukip supporter was forced to resign from her Brexit job after twittering photographs of a single Brit surrounded by hundreds of hijab-clad Muslim women and a caption "Grand-dad, why didn't you stop it"
This has been an openly racist campaign from day one, as has been your own attitude to leaving Europe
None of you people give a toss about the British people, about an unattainable independence, about the economic and political damage you have caused - you just want "them" out.
As I said earlier, it's remiss of you not to have included homosexuals in your sordid campaign - an all white, all right, a morally pure and "disease"- free Britain - 'Perfik'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 08:01 AM

"Rather clumsy perhaps and ill thought out, but certainly not racist or colour prejudiced."

It's directly comparable to Nazi propaganda for crying out loud; we have a duty to shout down this sort of dangerous language and imagery when it arises. It's beyond the bounds of decency, taste and crosses a rubicon that Farage constantly toes.

We have 6 million reasons to fight this appalling ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 03:16 AM

I found A kilt pin on Ebay - well 7 of them, and one is red
It seems that it was chosen as a symbol of someone a victim could turn to if they feel under attack. But at least they are plentiful in Rouge Towers so it is easy to have one to hand for a change of clothing, or to give to someone who rips clothing. If they flatly refuse ................ avoid.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Felipa
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 09:27 AM

needs a lot more than safety pins

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/02/anti-racist-groups-brexit-hate-crime
UK 'hotspots' targeted in bid to calm post-Brexit tension
After reports of racist incidents soar since EU referendum result, groups plan push to calm community tensions [some of the money comes from fund in tribute to Jo Cox]

At least present government doesn't approve of racist and xenophobic attacks. But we do need more of an outcry from those Brexiters who would condemn these acts.

It is all so irrational too -- many of the "non-whites" are of Commonwealth origin and many are even 3rd or 4th generation UK citizens. Their presence has nothing to do with EU. Nor would asylum seekers stop coming to a non-EU UK. The Germans, Poles, Italians etc. who have already worked here for some years would have legally "vested rights" to remain in the UK after a break with the EU. Clearly the eferendum campaigns didnt educate people about immigration, just stirred up fears and reinforced prejudices.

-- or are these just the dangerous lunatic fringe and thugs?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-nationals-should-be-allowed-to-stay-after-brexit-remain-and-leave-campaigners-say_uk_5778b38ae4b0f7b5579552e4

"Polling has found that 84% of the public supports allowing migrants to stay, including 77% of Leave voters and 85% of Conservative supporters.

"Just 16% of voters want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit, the ICM research for the think-tank British Future found."
[actually, I even find 16% alarming]

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 09:49 AM

Felipa's link
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 11:59 AM

What a biased rag the Guardian is.

"Nick Stevens, South Yorkshire organiser of Hope Not Hate, said the strategy is particularly needed in traditionally Labour-voting areas where the anti-immigrants message propagated by the Ukip leader Nigel Farage had gained traction."

Almost every politician in the UK now agree that the issue of unregulated immigration into the country must be tackled......Every Party now "propagates" reform of Free Movement, after years of demonising the brave Mr Farage for saying what they are now ALL saying.

Even Mr Corbyn says that the issue of Free movement needs reform.

It needs to be scrapped so that our own government may choose how many we can sustain and what qualifications are required.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 12:40 PM

As opposed to the biased rag that Ake is?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 12:45 PM

Come on Greg, that's not good enough :0(....what about the point that all parties are now committed to tackling the problem of unregulated immigration (Free movement within the EU)?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 03:55 PM

Any rag that dares to oppose his views and the views of Murdoch et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 05:00 PM

I did,nt like that poster either , stu, but I have seen some nazi praganda, and it was a whole lot worse. Jews were compared to rats , and tolerating the disabled , particularly in mind ,was said to be sinning against aural selection.. ....maybe you have some milder examples in mind ?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 05:13 PM

Sorry, Jim; but it was a perfectly justified riposte to a fatuous post by the idiotic Raggytash, 26 Jun 0917. If you really can't see that, then I am disappointed in you.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 16 - 08:11 AM

Pete, it's directly comparable: UKIP Poster featuring Syrians