BS: Post-Referendum Racism

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:10 AM

My baptism of fire as far as Anti-Irish racism is concerned was when I worked as an electrician in London.
I was told by one of my customers, "We have Irish neigbours so we always check under the car each morning before we drive away".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:33 AM

"We brits don't want to do it for minimum wages"

I problem is that everyone now expects a life like the one they were promised by the politicians.......a real life with their own house, children a nice car annual holiday etc.

Minimum wages are subsistence wages unless the currency is worth four times its face value in your country of origin......most immigrants are here for economic reasons........I know someone who has been working here for afew years leaving his wife and two children in Poland; from the minimum wage, he has sent home enough to build a new house for his family.........Could any young British couple do that? They lose hope and give up.

The playing field is not level, not even slightly tilted .....it is a fucking cliff face.

We should be training our young people to do real necessary jobs and pay them a decent wage for doing so, even if that means we the comfortable middle class take a hit in the process.

In a Capitalist society soaking the people who produce the wealth is counter productive......you will have to be satisfied with the smokescreen of "personal rights" until socialists convince the "Beast of Muddy Brain" where its interests really lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:02 AM

Times like this I regret not having had military and martial arts training in my youth,
because I can't stand this inadequate feeling of being unskilled and unequipped to do anything
if encountering right wing thugs bullying the defenseless...

At least 10 years ago I was 15 stone of gym bodybuilding muscle
and effectively 'looked' hard and not a bloke to mess with..

It was bad enough on our street when a gang of skinheads moved into a shared house and put up large B*P posters in the windows
directly facing a young black single mum's family across the road...

I felt pathetic, all I could do was send emails to the police,
which seemed to make no difference whatsoever....

Must say I enjoyed watching [safe behind my curtains] them get their comeuppance when they got in a petty row in the street
with the big Scottish bloke they lived next door to..
They cowered like little kids when he produced his baseball bat from behind his back..
Local West country skins looked like they would piss their pants when shouted at in an extremely ferocious sounding broad Scottish accent...
They suddenly became very apologetic and submissive.....

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:27 AM

That is the problem as individuals we do feel powerless, but if there are, say, a dozen people in the street who also feel powerless then the answer is to collectively cooperate to deal with the issue, ie organise, but at the same time resist the temptation to engage in mob rule. Use safty in numbers to voice that fact that their behaviour is intimidatory and won't be tolerate, and if necessary make collective disposition to relvant authroties - eg local CSO,community safety teams.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:39 AM

There you are, punkfolkrocker, these bullies are total wimps underneath. They only target those who can't defend themselves.

I had a wonderful moment in Accra, Ghana. I was there alone, staying at a very nice hotel run by a load of horrible racist white South Africans. The staff were all local Ghanaians. The day I left, a delightful Akan chap drove the hotel minibus to the airport, and on board was a group of these pigs. They started a diatribe about how inferior the 'blecks' were, and how useless and barely evolved, belong in the trees etc. The Akan at the wheel stoically stared at the road ahead. Ghanaians speak English very well, so he understood every word, but didn't want to lose his job. I was at first mortified, then bloody furious. In the end I turned to them and gave them both barrels, I was like a mad woman I was so angry. Funnily enough they cowered in their seats and muttered "Sorry, sorry".
Once we arrived at the Departures terminal they scuttled off like naughty boys, the prats. And the Akan (a lovely round fat chap in traditional robes and a smiley face) gave me a huge hug and a kiss, which I enjoyed very much, as he was rather handsome!! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:00 AM

"I problem is that everyone now expects a life like the one they were promised by the politicians"
Nobody does - who the **** bbelieves anything the politicians promise?
All the workers I ever worked with wanted was enough so as not to have to worry about feeding, clothing and educating their families - it has always been the already wealthy who have sought an income they would never been able to spend in ten lifetimes.
People want what their input into society entitles them to - the Socialist dream "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs".
Jim Carroll
.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:39 AM

I was talking about the not unreal expectations of our young people Jim.......They are being discriminated against by having to climb a cliff before work.

Economic migrants are not living the sort of life our young people aspired to.....often they are young men with small families abroad they live rough and cheap.....who can blame them, but it should not be at the expense of a proper life for our children.

When I started out self employed I had to compete with others working for the same rates and with the same expenses and goals.

Today I could never compete on a financial basis with the Eastern European labour only gangs; most of the ones I have come across are certainly not tradesmen.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:59 PM

Another

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:23 PM

Did you read the comments before posting that co-operator? They explain the situation regarding ID.

Typical scaremongering propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:47 PM

I suppose you are one of those who think we should all close our eyes to racist behaviour - usually the type who are the first to start whining when it happens to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 03:25 AM

I am totally opposed to racism as is any reasonable person Co-operator.

Questioning the wisdom of EU policy on immigration is NOT racism, it has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people involved.

Had the EU consisted of countries with economies which were on a par perhaps free movement MIGHT have been workable, but given present conditions the flood will always move from poor countries to more affluent ones. It was designed by Capitalists as a reservoir of cheap labour, without a thought for social consequences.
Allowing the infrastructure of the immigrants countries to be decimated whist driving down wages in Britain and avoiding the need for expensive re-training and job creation for our own young people.

Of course we value immigration, but only in numbers we can sustain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 03:57 AM

more news

So, who is going to dare to suggest that as the rising racism has occurred post-referendum, because is was a 'democratic' result that the victims should shut up and accept it??????

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 06:09 AM

"Questioning the wisdom of EU policy on immigration is NOT racism, it has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people involved."

Really? Then explain to us the poster presented to us by your hero Nigel Farage. Not only did it depict refugees, not EU citizens exercising their right to free movement to the UK (the people in the picture were nowhere near us and were not heading this way), they were also mostly black. Do you think Nige didn't notice it? So come on, explain to us how it wasn't blatant racism. After all, you want Nigel for Pope/PM/World President/Next Big Enchilada, whatever it was you said, so you should be able to defend him. Out with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 06:18 AM

I bought some safety pins today, and wearing in my button hole/jacket zip pulling thingy in solidarity. - Sorry, not in the material itself as I don't want holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 07:27 AM

I don't need to defend Mr Farage, the country endorsed his views in the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 07:31 AM

Hmmmmmmm Will not or cannot that is the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:08 AM

"I don't need to defend Mr Farage, the country endorsed his views in the referendum."
Not true - many specifically distanced themselves from Farage, many voted out because of the claimed bureaucracy of Europe and said their decision had nothing to do with immigration.
I watched an angry debate conducted by David Dimbleby, where peole were incensed to the point of violence when it was suggested that they were Farage supported
Your statement is typical of the lies that were told to arrive at the result.
Farage is a crypto-Fascist - his own words brand him as such - his behavior makes Enoch Powell look like Mahatma Gandhi
"I am totally opposed to racism as is any reasonable person Co-operator."
Just as you are "totally opposed" to homophobia - of course you are!!
"I was talking about the not unreal expectations of our young people Jim."
Only "unreal" to extreme right-wingers like yourself.
You are, in fact, setting one section of the British people agains another by describing some of them as "a cliff"
1.5 million Brits live and work in Europe - 5.5 work abroad
BRITS ABROAD
Are they the freeloaders and a threat to society as you have described emigrants to Britain?
30,000 Brits claim dole in Europe - all spongers, as you have described immigrants to Britain - if not, why not?
You will not respond to any of these figures, of course - you people never do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:17 AM

safety pins...???

c'mon admit it.. it's an excuse for reliving our punk rock youth... 😎


.. though paper clips were always safer for holding up a dodgy fly zip...


==================================================================



"the country endorsed his views in the referendum."

I only got CSE grade 1 Maths [Double entered and failed the O level - my mate failed the CSE and passed the O Level - 1975 education system]

but even I can recognise that a 4% majority of those who actually voted does not equate to 'the country'.....????

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:21 AM

I asked you to explain how a poster, wrongly depicting mostly black refugees that were not coming to the UK as EU citizens exercising free movement, and endorsed by the man you worship as part of the brexit capaign, is not racist. Now stop evading that question and answer it honestly. Was that poster racist? Was it lying to the people of this country by misrepresenting refugees who were not coming here as EU immigrants? If he's racist (and I think the poster puts him bang to rights), and "the country endorsed his views," are you saying that we live in a racist country and that you're OK with that (after all, you do appear to be his numero uno fan, don't you?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:22 AM

And it was most decidedly a minority of people who were registered to vote, lest we forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 01:13 PM

Even the solitary UKIP MP, Douglas Carswell, denounced that poster on Question Time last night.

But the real drivers of xenophobia has to be recognised as being the drip drip effect of constant headlines in the Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Sun, building up an atmosphere in which the closet racists feel it's OK to come out into the open.
..................
One aspect of migration that seems to be ignored is that, so far as migrant workers in agriculture are concerned, this is largely a continuation of the tradition of such work being done by transient migrants from other poorer parts of the British Isles, rather than of people coming to settle in the country.

And an enormous proportion of other people who have come from Eastern Europe will tell you they have every hope of going home if and when circumstances allow, and long for that day. From most people from all countries emigrating is very much a second best forced on them by economic circumstances. In Ireland, for example, for many years it is common to see emigration as a plague. In bad times it builds to a flood, in good times it falls to a trickle.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 02:45 PM

Apologies for returning to thread I had forsworn; but my attention has been drawn to Jim Carroll's post addressed to me of 0329 on 30 June.

How can he be 'embarrassed' by what I choose to write? What an oddly egocentric response; one of my favourite Dr Johnson quotations may be apposite — "Sir, you may be sure 'twas writ with litle thought of pleasing you". & do I detect a hint of origin-throwing racism in the latter part of his post? I should be distressed to think so & hope I have over-interpreted.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 05:26 PM

I have already rung the Polish Cultural Centre for being white British, which they accepted. Does anyone else have a single ounce of decency to do so?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:13 AM

Why "embarrassed" Mike?
Because I find somebody who once wrote well (and probably still does elsewhere) behaving like a rather infantile name-calling schoolchild, I do find it embarrassing.
"Was there ever such a pitiful pathetic piddling piece of penny-in-the-slot pussy-collar-gee?"
Come on Mike - you are not really at this stage of life, are you?
It is not "racist" to pass on the lesson that was given to me by people who had undergone unimaginable horrors, when they declared that, as victims, they would never submit people of any cultural group or race to the experiences forced on them.
When the Israelis made comparisons of what happened to the Jewish people and what is happening in Israel today out-of-bounds, they certainly knew what they were doing.
As the Israelis have torn up any workable definition of 'Antisemitism' by declaring any criticism of their policy "Antisemitic", I feel justified in arriving at my own definition of the term, so I feel perfectly comfortable in using a comparison now being used worldwide by Jews and non-Jews, including prominent and respected Israelis.
Gloves are off, as far as I'm concerned.
For the Israeli Justice Minister to declare publicly that any criticism of Israeli policy was "Antisemitic" was the final straw - 'Israel uber alles'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:24 AM

Come along children, the poster was obviously intended to be analogous, the winding queue representing a fraction of the immigrants waiting for admittance to THIS country.

Rather clumsy perhaps and ill thought out, but certainly not racist or colour prejudiced.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 03:38 AM

I beg to differ Akenaton. The poster was an absolute disgrace. Racism in it's most abject form. Earlier back in another thread I placed a link to a newspaper article that showed the poster perhaps you would take another look at it and possibly re-evaluate your position.

Link

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 05:12 AM

Most EU immigrants are white. Most of the people in the picture were people of colour. EU immigrants do not form long snaking queues. The use of that picture was improper and was a clear attempt to mislead and to stoke unjustified antagonism towards foreigners. Absolutely indefensible. "Intended to be analogous" my arse. And do not call us children, you ignorant man.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 05:31 AM

"Come along children, the poster was obviously intended to be analogous,"
The poster was directly appealing to the basic xenophobia of the British people - has anybody else suggested it was analogous or is this something else you's scribbled down on the back of a beer mat?
A Ukip supporter was forced to resign from her Brexit job after twittering photographs of a single Brit surrounded by hundreds of hijab-clad Muslim women and a caption "Grand-dad, why didn't you stop it"
This has been an openly racist campaign from day one, as has been your own attitude to leaving Europe
None of you people give a toss about the British people, about an unattainable independence, about the economic and political damage you have caused - you just want "them" out.
As I said earlier, it's remiss of you not to have included homosexuals in your sordid campaign - an all white, all right, a morally pure and "disease"- free Britain - 'Perfik'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 08:01 AM

"Rather clumsy perhaps and ill thought out, but certainly not racist or colour prejudiced."

It's directly comparable to Nazi propaganda for crying out loud; we have a duty to shout down this sort of dangerous language and imagery when it arises. It's beyond the bounds of decency, taste and crosses a rubicon that Farage constantly toes.

We have 6 million reasons to fight this appalling ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 03:16 AM

I found A kilt pin on Ebay - well 7 of them, and one is red
It seems that it was chosen as a symbol of someone a victim could turn to if they feel under attack. But at least they are plentiful in Rouge Towers so it is easy to have one to hand for a change of clothing, or to give to someone who rips clothing. If they flatly refuse ................ avoid.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Felipa
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 09:27 AM

needs a lot more than safety pins

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/02/anti-racist-groups-brexit-hate-crime
UK 'hotspots' targeted in bid to calm post-Brexit tension
After reports of racist incidents soar since EU referendum result, groups plan push to calm community tensions [some of the money comes from fund in tribute to Jo Cox]

At least present government doesn't approve of racist and xenophobic attacks. But we do need more of an outcry from those Brexiters who would condemn these acts.

It is all so irrational too -- many of the "non-whites" are of Commonwealth origin and many are even 3rd or 4th generation UK citizens. Their presence has nothing to do with EU. Nor would asylum seekers stop coming to a non-EU UK. The Germans, Poles, Italians etc. who have already worked here for some years would have legally "vested rights" to remain in the UK after a break with the EU. Clearly the eferendum campaigns didnt educate people about immigration, just stirred up fears and reinforced prejudices.

-- or are these just the dangerous lunatic fringe and thugs?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-nationals-should-be-allowed-to-stay-after-brexit-remain-and-leave-campaigners-say_uk_5778b38ae4b0f7b5579552e4

"Polling has found that 84% of the public supports allowing migrants to stay, including 77% of Leave voters and 85% of Conservative supporters.

"Just 16% of voters want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit, the ICM research for the think-tank British Future found."
[actually, I even find 16% alarming]

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 09:49 AM

Felipa's link
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 11:59 AM

What a biased rag the Guardian is.

"Nick Stevens, South Yorkshire organiser of Hope Not Hate, said the strategy is particularly needed in traditionally Labour-voting areas where the anti-immigrants message propagated by the Ukip leader Nigel Farage had gained traction."

Almost every politician in the UK now agree that the issue of unregulated immigration into the country must be tackled......Every Party now "propagates" reform of Free Movement, after years of demonising the brave Mr Farage for saying what they are now ALL saying.

Even Mr Corbyn says that the issue of Free movement needs reform.

It needs to be scrapped so that our own government may choose how many we can sustain and what qualifications are required.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 12:40 PM

As opposed to the biased rag that Ake is?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 12:45 PM

Come on Greg, that's not good enough :0(....what about the point that all parties are now committed to tackling the problem of unregulated immigration (Free movement within the EU)?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 03:55 PM

Any rag that dares to oppose his views and the views of Murdoch et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 05:00 PM

I did,nt like that poster either , stu, but I have seen some nazi praganda, and it was a whole lot worse. Jews were compared to rats , and tolerating the disabled , particularly in mind ,was said to be sinning against aural selection.. ....maybe you have some milder examples in mind ?

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 05:13 PM

Sorry, Jim; but it was a perfectly justified riposte to a fatuous post by the idiotic Raggytash, 26 Jun 0917. If you really can't see that, then I am disappointed in you.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Post-Referendum Racism
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 16 - 08:11 AM

Pete, it's directly comparable: UKIP Poster featuring Syrians