BS: Trump again

Subject: BS: Can We Discuss Trump Or Not
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Aug 16 - 06:38 PM

I don't see what the problem is here - please elucidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Can We Discuss Trump Or Not
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Aug 16 - 06:54 PM

What's to discuss about the ass-clown?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Aug 16 - 07:41 PM

Well, we could discuss why the last two threads initiated & posted about The Trumpshit were killed out of hand in their infancy by the mods.....

And then we could get on with discussing the latest asshole pronouncements by himself and why he is totally unfit to be a high school custodian, never mind the Prez. of the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 16 - 08:31 PM

Greg go to age: at top of page and select 7 days, find original trump thread and post there.

do not start threads by same name.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 09 Aug 16 - 11:59 PM

Akenaton camps out on these threads and makes them worse than they need to be. He insists on contributing every third or fourth post to argue with people in the US about American candidates. If he stays away - or his posts are deleted before everyone starts arguing with him - then maybe this one will stick around.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 12:36 AM

So, the other two Trump threads are closed. Might be an idea to talk about Trump on this thread, hey?

Did I hear Ake say that most of the liberals at Mudcat supported the Bush invasion of Iraq? I have to say that I was surprised and disappointed that Hillary voted for it. I don't think she'd do it now, although she is more "hawkish" than I would like.
But I think most U.S. Mudcatters were against the invasion of Iraq. I certainly opposed it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 02:45 AM

Well I remember it well Joe and you did oppose it....but to most people here at the time Saddam was the real villain and had to be removed.....the likely repercussions were rarely discussed by US ers.

I agree with Greg 100% over the blocking of these threads(sorry Greg :0)).

None of the threads were personally abusive and I don't see how we can discuss Mr Trump without also discussing the election as a whole.

I may be wrong, but I don't see it as the business of the mods to impose political censorship on the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stu
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 03:07 AM

" He insists on contributing every third or fourth post to argue with people in the US about American candidates."

To be fair, if the US appoints itself 'leader of the free world' then those of us in the free world have a stake in these elections too, and we're as entitled to comment on it as anyone else. The influence of the US across the world for good or bad means everyone has an opinion, and everyone is affected.

Also, your president came over here with a stick rather than a carrot during the run up to the EU referendum and gave his two penneth (making things worse for us remainers), so if we are to suffer direct interference in our affairs then a few folk commenting on a forum thread is the least of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 04:24 AM

When someone doesn't contribute to the various threads, but changes the subject to his hatred of one candidate, he isn't furthering the conversation. And saying it over and over and over suggests that he thinks repeating a lie often enough will make it become the truth.

And now he has managed to turn the thread from Trump to himself. That is an old troll trick.

It was horrifying that Bush started a war in Iraq, and wretched to see how anyone who opposed it was immediately pounced upon as unpatriotic if they didn't get behind Baby Bush right after 9-11. Cheney lied. Many people were fooled.

But you haven't seen nothin' yet, if Trump were to be elected, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court will have to spend all of their time keeping him in line and acting to correct his judgement errors. He doesn't have a clue what the Constitution is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stu
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 08:07 AM

Er, well I wasn't so much supporting your views Ake (which I disagree with strongly) as defending your right to air them, and more to the point I was taking issue with Vashta's post which implied only US citizens have an interest or perhaps even a stake in this election, even if only they have the vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 08:57 AM

"If Hillary wins the election our loyal 2nd amendment militias will save our guns by killing her" sic.
Donald Trump

This is the rhetoric I always expected from trump. Fascism requires violence nd murder.

Now if Ake or his ilk takes pride in his might is right philosophy, he is no longer a human o me. If he is happy as a powerful murderous bully,

he is my sworn enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 09:41 AM

Ake, I remember in one Trump thread, you only seemed to want to talk about Hillary. That is what I believe Acme is talking about. Also, if it turns into personal battle and the "arguments" target a specific other poster, there's a good chance the post or the thread will get deleted.

Don, that's not what he said. That's just how a lot of people (including me) heard it. It's good, though, because the more shit comes out of his mouth, the more of his followers see the light. Let's just hope he doesn't manage to knock down any dominoes while he's talking.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

There are times when I miss the plain-speaking of the Muskets.

Trump is a demagogue and bully and we want to talk about him in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 09:59 AM

Fascists are falling over each other to parse what trump said.

At the end of the day the one thing no one can take back now
is the fact that Permission has been given!

Permission to point 3/4 of a million guns at Hillary's head and triggers squeezed.

Its not hardball anymore, its government by gun, by people who smile at the prospect but claim "I didn't do anything".

Yes, you did't do anything.
That's the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 10:02 AM

My wife was telling me about a series of experiments undertaken by behavioral scientists. Young children watched puppets performing short vignettes, after which they were allowed to choose one of the puppets to play with. When shown one puppet acting politely and another acting badly, the children almost uniformly chose to play with the "nice" puppet. When shown a puppet who liked the type of breakfast cereal the children themselves liked and another puppet who liked something else, the children almost always chose the puppet who liked their own favorite cereal. But when shown the cereal vignette and the good puppet/bad puppet vignette sequentially, the children almost always chose to play with the puppet who liked their favorite cereal, even if it was the bad puppet.

My interpretation of this is that the children identified puppets who like their own favorite cereal as members of their own "tribe". They formed tribal identities based on a very basic commonality: food preference. They were willing to ignore bad behavior on the part of other tribe members, but not in non-tribe members. Tribal identity trumps morality.

This says a lot to me about Donald Trump's appeal and, most importantly, why he's able to get away with the outlandishly offensive comments he makes. He has established himself as a member of the "disaffected white people" tribe by appealing to base level wants and needs, like economic (in)security, and ignoring higher level concerns like morality, wisdom, and rationality. Other disaffected white people are willing to ignore, even applaud, comments and behaviors from Trump that they'd never find acceptable coming from a non-tribe member.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 12:45 PM

No, Donald Trump did not say that the 2nd Amendment supporters should kill Hillary. However, his implication was clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 02:15 PM

Joe there are times in life when moral outrage and grief are appropriate. I daresay you missed this particular opportunity. Now that the nation is openly discussing the assassination of Hillary Clinton no one can put the genie back in the bottle. The damage is done. The gun of Damocles is loaded, and Trump merely made an implication?

BEE W, I have watched the good/bad puppet experiments. Point well taken. Perhaps you see my perspective of Trump using what I call, in this case of insinuating permission to shoot, oblique hypnotic suggestion?
Every discipline has its own language.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 02:23 PM

Is it possible that remarks like these, which seem to be "off the cuff" ad libs, are actually carefully calculated and scripted?

His recent remark about the "second amendment folks" may have been designed to suggest to his followers that he actually approves of assassinating Hillary while still providing plausible deniability when others interpret it that way.

Could he be that clever?

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 03:39 PM

Don, Joe didn't miss the opportunity. You misunderstood what he said.

Is it just me, or are many of us just looking for offensive things?

Bev and Jerry, it was a fairly obvious hint. That can't indicate the slightest smidgen of cleverness. It was ham-handed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 04:15 PM

Missed this - has it been discussed that Trump has suggested the use of ncler weapons on three occasions
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 04:23 PM

Trump again,
Trump again,
jiggety-jig

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 04:34 PM

The Chicago Tribune (click) has a good article about The Donald and The Nukes. It's similar to his quip on 2nd Amendment people and Hillary - he says it, and then he denies it, but he leaves the thought there. And so he has succeeded in issuing a horrible threat while retaining some degree of deniability. It's insidious.

This sort of practice is common among lecherous men who make sexually-threatening remarks toward women and then immediately deny that they said anything of the sort. Such veiled threats may be even more damaging than direct threats, because the culprits often succeed in escaping culpability. Like I said, it's insidious.

Of course, the entire Republican Party has been doing this to Hillary since 1992, to the point where even Bernie Sanders supporters believe them. They have well-nigh destroyed the reputation of a good woman, and they deny culpability. They made Trump their candidate, and now they deny culpability. Need I say it again? It's insidious.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 04:36 PM

Surely in America the idea of presidential assassination is always present, even when unspoken?

For a presidential candidate to impliciitly invite it for an opponent is however a new departure, I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 05:19 PM

... he actually approves of assassinating Hillary while still providing plausible deniability when others interpret it that way. Could he be that clever?

No, He's a moron - but his handlers - especially Roger Stone - ARE that clever and unprincipled.

For a presidential candidate to impliciitly invite it for an opponent is however a new departure, I believe.

Yup, that's The Trumpshit and his followers in spades. HEIL TRUMP!!! Brownshirts R Us.

Is it possible that remarks like these, which seem to be "off the cuff" ad libs, are actually carefully calculated and scripted?


Absolutely. The Trumpshit- although he's an absolute moron and a crook into the bargain - is well aware of what he says.

This is a man who described his "romantic escapades" (i.e. indiscriminate rutting)in the 1980's as his "personal Vietnam" because he put himself at risk of sexually transmitted diseases. He stated that this made him feel "like a great and very brave soldier". (see Howard Stern interview). He's a real 14 karat piece of shit.

Of course, the entire Republican Party has been doing this to Hillary since 1992

Not just Hillary, Joe - ALL women.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 05:19 PM

I'm thinking the election is going to be a landslide like we've never seen before. Then, think about this, what happens after that?

I think this is what it looks like when a whole country jumps the shark.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 05:27 PM

I'm thinking the election is going to be a landslide like we've never seen before.

Not necessarily, if the die-hard Bernie Folks and Greenies persist in throwing their votes away & thereby electing The Trumpshit...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 06:18 PM

Does Trump exaggerate extravagantly ?
yes
Does he lie eloquently?
No,
it always has a ham handed quality done in incomplete sentences.

When deal making can this technique be used with plausible deniability?
Yes.

Can one be so clever?
Yes

Most people here can read between the lines.
Its just as easy to speak between the lines.

Greg drank the kool aid and thinks trump is a stupid bumbling moron gaffe giraffe with no idea what will come out of his mouth.

Truth is Donald does know. This a guy who anonymously pretended to be a public relation expert for himself. Do you think that was an accident?

If you still have your doubts, fine, but do not apologize for Donald. You will regret it. I have had experiences which leaves me without a shred of naiveté' . Life is nice when you remain naïve, like a happy delusion, but it is escapist.

In a political campaign all you need to do is deny a particular meaning while your opponent is put in a position or quandary of having to deny something absurd.
"I know he didn't ruck a pig, I just want to hear him deny it!"
L.B.J.
To control the 24/7 news cycle just keep outraging people.   

Landslide or not the suggestion will live on.




Or as amos might succinctly say
"Its all Brand BS"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 06:54 PM

Greg drank the kool aid and thinks trump is a stupid bumbling moron

Drank the Kool-Aid ??? - gimmie a break, that'd a standard Republicrap talking point .

The Trumpshit IS an ignorant narcissistic moron (and a crook into the bargain if anyone wishes to check his business history of stiffing workers and contractors and refusing to rent to Black folks)- and he continually lies out of both sides of his mouth at once - but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to engage OTHER ignorant morons and solicit their support to his ignorant, fascist cause.

He's a complete piece of shit.

Full stop.

But the folks that would vore for him and who support him and shout out at his rallies RE: President Obama: "F**K THE NI**ER" are .......... somethimg else entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 07:26 PM

Being half deaf I could at least hear you this time Greg.
You know I am open to the possibility that a smiling Hitler does better than an angry one. It is possible Trump is simply a natural
mother .......
It is trump supporters, not me, who claim in their defense that trump does not know what he is saying. Greg do not do their job.

Joe it is now apparent with one added adjective (insidious) that you did not let Trump sneak under the radar recently. Good for you buddy.


Every outrageous piece of tripe will now be thrown by FOX and Repukians for the next 89 days with fairly tepid Hillary commercials, in response.







"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"

(insidious insinuation)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 07:29 PM

The danger for everyone is that too many Americans are going to assume that Trump has no chance of winning.

That means no need to vote for Hillary (and an awful lot of people clearly don't particularly want to vote for her) - staying at home, or voting for fringe candidates - and also people, who don't actually fancy Trump as president, feeling a vote for him is a risk-free way of registering a protest, or even just having a joke. The Monster Raving Loony Candidate.

And you get the Monster Raving Loony President. Which isn't funny any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 07:48 PM

The danger for everyone is that too many Americans are going to assume that Trump has no chance of winning.

That means no need to vote for Hillary (and an awful lot of people clearly don't particularly want to vote for her) - staying at home, or voting for fringe candidates - ...

Amen, Kevin. A vote for "none of the above" is a vote for The Trumpshit.

And the Trumpshit is way beyond the Monster Raving Looney Party. The last thing he is is "funny".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 08:47 PM

Jeri says: I'm thinking the election is going to be a landslide like we've never seen before.

I sure hope that's true, Jeri - and that the landslide will favor the Democrats. It will take a Democratic landslide to reform the Republican Party and cleanse of all the Trump and Tea Party nonsense. [Damn! I almost used that puerile "Trumpshit" moniker...] The United States needs two rational political parties, to balance things out and keep things honest. The Republican Party has been dominated by extremists for far too long.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 09:11 PM

Joe listening to cable news (which I'm getting fairly sick of), the polls favor Clinton, often in double digits. Plus, a lot of Repub former Trump supporters are bailing. I hope a lot of people vote, but I'm also thinking many X-Trumpers are going to refrain from voting, or will vote for someone else.

I also think the Republican party as it is, is finished. They'll have to re-shape the whole party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 09:47 PM

oversimplified but clear:

The 2 parties in America have roughly been the rich party and the poor party. Neither are essentially rational all the time.

The rich party has achieved rulings to abolish half of the voting rights act, citizens united has made independent multi national corporations to spend unlimited money on our lections, and the Court ruled that money is free speech to be used to out shout people with no money. The rich party has created more billionaires than anytime in history.

The poor party has legalized unions, abolished child labor, made a new deal safety net for the needy, established safety and protection agencies, established a civil rights act and promote the health and welfare of the people.   

Both parties can over do it or become addicted to the access to power and money. The skeleton or infrastructure is one of neglect by both parties.

-----------------------


In answer to McGrath, The percentage of American Presidents who have narrowly survived actual assassination attempts along with those have died from attacks is 10%. Surely that can not be an excuse to dismiss inciting people to commit murder.

Historically there are a couple of bad actors who can be compared to Trump like Aaron Burr and Andrew Jackson.

--------------------------

The path to victory by Trump can only be by nefarious/tragic means or by a historic extra large voter turnout.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 11:25 PM

Ignore the polls - who knows what tiny fraction of the population can be reached to answer those questions.

Don't ignore the poll - the voting booth. Go Vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 16 - 11:30 PM

I never would have thought of that... ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 03:36 AM

every time he shoots himself in the foot

would that make him an air-sole ?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 07:48 AM

It will take a Democratic landslide to reform the Republican Party and cleanse of all the Trump and Tea Party nonsense.

Unfortunately Joe, a Dem landslide will most assuredly NOT "reform the Republican Party" OR the Trumpists, OR the "Tea Party">

The Repubs, beginning with Reagan, have over the last quarter-century created, Dr. Frankenstein-like, a monster they can no longer control.

It will take at least another quarter-century to "reform" the party, if its susceptible of reform at all at this point.

As for "reforming" the howling mobs of brain-damaged Trump supporters, I wish you luck with that as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 12:02 PM

This is the Trump campaign. Just substitute "Trump" for "Malkovich." And he does not care how he gets us to say it.

The Trump Campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 01:29 PM

And yet more spew from The Trumpshit:

***
Mr. Trump defended his portrayal of the president as a "founder" of ISIS, despite criticism that the claim was both inaccurate and inflammatory. In a rally on Wednesday night in Sunrise, Fla., Mr. Trump suggested that the Islamic State "honors" Mr. Obama, and he went out of his way to refer to "the administration of Barack Hussein Obama," emphasizing the president's middle name.

On CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Thursday morning, when an interviewer pressed Mr. Trump on the propriety of his claim about Mr. Obama's responsibility for the rise of the Islamic State, Mr. Trump said it was "absolutely" the case and added: "Is there something wrong with saying that? Are people complaining that I said he was the founder of ISIS?"
***

Unbelievable. Even for a turd with legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 04:06 PM

Bush, Obama and Clinton certainly contributed to the rise of ISIS
US intervention in Iraq Libya and Syria provided the ideal breeding ground for Islamic terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 04:24 PM

Un Hunh, Ake - emphasis on George Dumbya Bush and his contrived war. Also thank Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz - and for that matter war criminal Henry Kissinger- God Damn Them All

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:21 PM

At the Indiana Trump rally sitting right behind Donald was the ultimate power couple. Sauron and Voldemort.

Subject: BS: Short Conversations
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 09:16 PM

From banal to life changing the short conversation is condensed as haiku and sometimes remembered for a life time.
It could be in a grocery line or rarely at a stop light when the weather is fine.
Maybe you talked up or you talked down but the memory of the words shared still grows like a vine. I love those short conversations that leave both smiling as you walk, drive or fly away.
Still they can be a few terse words you never want to hear.
There is an honesty among strangers that can go beyond fear, ascend with joy or extend the wisdom of the ages.

I had one at a stop light the other day while npr was on. It was real wonky defense security council stuff but the common chord that harmonized the conversation before the light turned green was that
Trump was a SOB

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:20 AM

I suppose that like him or loathe him, Mr Trump has come through the primaries against all odds to take his place as Republican presidential candidate.

That position itself, in a democracy, deserves a degree of respect if we really imagine ourselves to be democrats.
These threads have turned into a series of puerile insults rather than providing any insight into the man or his opinions and flags up the crazy partisan nature of US politics which I continue to see as the game of "Good cop Bad cop"......a game that guarantees no societal change in the foreseeable future.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 08:46 AM

A subtle reminder this political season:

Don't feed the trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 09:11 AM

Respect for a position does not imply any kind of respect for the individual filling it. That's a rule in all circumstances.

But I agree t hat just making cracks about Trump is a bit of a waste of time.

More interesting is speculation about whether the Republicans could find a way of dumping him. I gather there's a provision for removing a candidate for "being of unsound mind" - but since that's what was what got him his position, rather than something that has happened to him subsequently (such as a stroke), it might be a bit hard to justify that. And it would suicide for the Republicans - though that seems likely in any case.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 09:49 AM

These threads have turned into a series of puerile insults rather than providing any insight into the man or his opinions

You've got that exactly backwards, Ake.

These threads have provided and are providing facts about the man, his past history and business practices, his ludicrous opinions, his assinine statements, his general ignorance, his buffoonish antics and his insane policies, which YOU perversely choose to see as "puerile insults".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stu
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 10:59 AM

"rather than providing any insight into the man or his opinions"

To be fair Ake, we have plenty of insight into the man and his opinion. He's a lair, fantasist and narcissist; not puerile insults but conclusions based on the actions and comments of the man himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 12:51 PM

Respect is an odd word. Everybody deserves respect, including those who we rightly despise.