BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 11:47 AM

You didn't answer my question, by the way
Can we assume that chaining is the only thing that appears to disturb you, we can accept that you accept that torture is common in Guantanamo?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 11:44 AM

"You get paid in the currency you deal in Jim."
Nobody goes in for serial abuse - only you, who seems to regard disagreement as abuse
Plenty more threads to work on, so keep it up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 11:35 AM

You get paid in the currency you deal in Jim. As does Shaw, Raggy and DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 11:05 AM

"Well no Jom
Sigh - not again
Which list do you want, or shall I put both up?
"uncharged prisoners in cages chained up in the burning sun,"
So - that's what I said what's your point - ?
CHAINING is in fact a common form of torture in Guantanamo.
INTERNATIONAL LAW
Can we assume that chaining is the only thing that appears to disturb you, we can accept that you acccept that torture is common in Guantanamo
Jim Carroll
And you weer doing so well - the old lists will do until I can make a start on another thread

A reminder
"every time you mention the name Woodcock I know I've got through to you and you are getting rattled.""
It will remind everyone that you are truly clueless and gormless to an astounding degree.
"Got the point now Shaw"
Probably because Carroll
Really Carroll
Keep floundering about Carroll
So all in all Christmas
For JOM:
Christmas
No need for reminders JOM I have nothing but the utmost contempt for you and everything you stand for. Not many humans wander this planet without one single redeeming feature - you seem to have managed that without even trying.
The Truth according to JOM - thick as shit and proud of it
I will repeat IT YET AGAIN FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE AMONG US WHO ARE TOO BLOODY THICK TO UNDERSTAND PLAIN ENGLISH (i.e. YOU RAGGY)
"complete and utter buffoon"
"That by the way THICKO "
"clueless ignoramus of truly astounding degree"
"Carroll"
"Have you found an echo JOM?"
Or have you always wandered through life making a complete and utter JOM-like CUNT of yourself?
Carroll
"Here is a link for you Jom:"
"By the way JOM"
"how boastful a man can get doesn't it JOM?"
"Don't worry JOM"
You really should read our own posts sometime - it would help avoid the foot-in-mouths - the "Rattle of an Simple Man", as the screenplay writer described it.

"To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit", dating from 2nd of June to 12th of September.
These are selections of Teribus's contemptuously appalling behaviour towards those who disagree with him, all taken from one thread "To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit", dating from 2nd of June to 12th of September.
Several of his postings contain up to half a dozen examples of insulting behavior
One of the conditions of membership of this forum "You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty."
We all get rattled on occasion, some time ago, Joe Offer sensibly suggested that we should act like adults and stop calling each other silly names – most of us have tried, Teribus continues his appalling behaviour, making it virtually impossible not to react in kind to it.
If these discussions are to be of any value whatever, I feel there needs to be a cut-off point as to when a member is prevented in serially behaving in this way – as far as I am concerned, that point was reached a long time ago.
Until he stops behaving in this arrogant and bullying manner, I will continue selecting examples of his appalling behaviour until he either stops of his own free will or is stopped I will continue selecting topics an providing examples.
It really is devaluing the quality of this great forum – let's stop it now.
Jim Carroll

Idiotic argument Shaw and you know it
Don't worry Jom, we both know that it is just more of your "Made-Up-Shit
Unfortunately though Jom,
Reality check for you Jom:
How many pieces will the Labour Party be in by then Shaw?
Let's rip this clichéd little exercise in leftist rhetoric apart shall we:
At one point Jom - WOW - Is it fun living in your time warp Jom?
Missed the point again Jom,
On points Jom, you have completely missed the point that was being made
But Jom you are talking "individuals" your little bleat
Just how have we closed the door Jom?
Jom says that this is
Correction Jom
Well Shaw, as ever you don't let the facts stand in your way, glossing over the utterly dire state of the nation
A new all time low even for Jim Carroll.
Now I have opened those three sentences out, just in case Jom doesn't know what a sentence is
You didn't say Jom
Unfortunately Jom
Well well Jom,
As for your post - Steve Shaw…. Put that to music and you'd have a song that would top the "Country & Western" charts in next to no time
I have drawn Jom's attention
Good heavens Jom it must have taken you at least half-an-hour to wipe down and dry out the screen and keyboard after that spittle-flecked tirade of yours.
Naw too much fun just letting you contradict yourself Jom.
Well Jom how about you banging on about how wrong those are who advocate
There is also the likes of you and Carroll
About the daftest statement I think I have ever read - not surprising really considering who wrote it
How the hell do you think he became an MEP you Prat
Ah more twaddle from Jom:
"THE F**KER WHO FEEDS THEM - YOU HALFWIT PRAT."
"Only to a wanker like you Shaw."
"Oh and please, please, please let just one of you clowns chirp up... as I will paint the room with you.
Carroll
Rap and the "kipper" haven't cottoned on to.
Nothing whatsoever to say then Jom? Just the empty beating of your gums.
You're using your "tell" that lets me know that I am really niggling you Shaw.
By the bye Shaw
Don't think so Shaw,
Still nothing to say then Jom?
By the way Jom thanks for the PM - as a spit-flecked rant it is quite an amusing bit of pointless froth - any time I want a good laugh I dare say I'll open it up and read it.
Ehmmm Carroll
Very true Shaw, I
from Eastern Europe Jom?
Depending upon who things are classified Shaw.
Only problem with all of that Shaw
Tell me Shaw
"our" democratic system hasn't failed Jom

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 10:43 AM

"They all end up with the same people challenging each other to illustrate where they said why the other person said they'd said and how that was not actually what they said even though they'd used the same words etc etc etc"

You are not wrong, Stu. As a matter of fact I've just had a similar go on the Labour thread but in that case I focussed on the chief culprit (not the only one by a long chalk, but by far the worst), Keith A. of Hertford. Over the years I've singled out several examples of how he constantly twists words, obsesses over semantics, gets inventive with quotes, lies in his teeth and refuses to back down when he's wrong. We are stupid enough to engage him, unfortunately, and his constant misrepresentations inevitably get under people's skin time and time again. It's utterly energy-sapping, frankly. In addition, we have the most aggressive, sarcastic, name-calling, ill-tempered, arrogant, bullying and bombastic poster it's ever been my misfortune to encounter, Teribus of course, and one of the very worst bigots you're ever likely to come across, bobad. In a perfect world we'd let these three nutters just burble on and not respond. We should try doing that more and more. After all, it's not as if half the planet is reading our enlightened little natters, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 10:18 AM

"You have just been provided with evidence of uncharged prisoners in cages chained up in the burning sun,"

Well no Jom the only people chained up in the burning sun were protesters in the link you provided.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 10:06 AM

"hey all end up with the same people challenging each other to illustrate where they said...
That i an inevitable consequence of two groups of people from the opposite sides of the political spectrum clashing - it doesn't stop other people joining in without getting involved in the cat-fights.
I have to say Stu, I usually admire whaat you havee to say and am extremely grateful for the number of occasions you have contributed to my knowledge, but sometimes you appear to haunt these threads like the Ghost of Christmas Past
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 09:48 AM

What's the point of contributing to any of these threads?

They all end up with the same people challenging each other to illustrate where they said why the other person said they'd said and how that was not actually what they said even though they'd used the same words etc etc etc


Any half decent thread eventually gets turned into the forum equivalent of Saint Clabbert's.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 07:39 AM

I'm sorry for your despair Stu
As far as I' can make out, apart from your tut-tutting, you haven't actually contributed to this subject
Don't you feel it a bit.... (what's the word I'm looking for?). that your only appearance here is to do a Mary Whitehouse on what others have contributed?
Can't speak for Terribus, but everything I have written is more or less relevant to what is being discussed - with a few head-to-heads with those who go out of their way to be insulting.
Not sure what I can do about that other than to react.
As I said, feel free.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 06:58 AM

Not disapproval, despair.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 06:23 AM

Back to bed maybe Stu - if you are feeling tired.
You are, of course welcome to participate in the subject rather than making meaningless disapproving noises
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 06:17 AM

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 04:43 AM

You have just been provided with evidence of uncharged prisoners in cages chained up in the burning sun, force fed, subjected to high pitch noise, deprived of sleep.... and a whole batch of examples of modern methods of torture - elsewhere, waterboarding has become common.
You have been given your examples - you justify it by ignoring them and pretending they are not there
I don't tell lies and you have never exer shown me to have done
- we all make the occasional mistake - certainly you do.
Youi have never ever caught me out in a deliberate lie and it is a lie to continually claim that you have.
Now - about this non-existent torture...... DOES THIS HELP? ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 04:22 PM

You did ask this question didn't you Carroll:

Jim Carroll - 08 Dec 16 - 05:07 AM

"You are justifying this torture, aren't you?"

I merely ask - what torture? and where, how and when I am supposed to have attempted to justify it.

If you cannot provide this forum with that information then you are back at your old tricks of misrepresentation and telling lies about people again.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 05:54 AM

You are trivialising and questioning proven acts of torture "What torture?" (there's your verbatim quote), by questioning them without proof and dismissing the conditions these illegally held prisoners are subjected to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 05:45 AM

What torture? Where do I justify it?

Verbatim quotes from any post of mine Jim.

There's something else you will not come up with.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 05:23 AM

GUANTANAMO HOLIDAY CAMP
WISH YOU WERE HERE
Love
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 05:07 AM

You are justifying this torture, aren't you?
Now there's a surprise
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 04:02 AM

Ah missed the point being made entirely once again Jim. Not surprising at all really.

100 degrees F Jimbo? Try working full shifts flat out in the open in temperatures of 120 degrees F, the apparel was not the thing people tended to complain about, especially the welders. They are light coveralls by the way NOT Boiler suits.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 03:48 AM

"Orange one-piece coveralls Jim - the "uniform" of the offshore oil & gas industry in the tropics since the 1970s.
Haven't you missed out the 100 degree temperatures, the cages in the open sun, the chains and the fact that these people were uncharged, untried and therefore held illegally?
They used to be passed (supposedly in secret) through our local airport (shannon) until this illegal trade was brought to into the spotlight and stopped - after a long period of having been denied.
779 prisoners have been held by the U.S. military at Guantánamo since the prison opened on January 11, 2002. Of those, 709 have been released or transferred, one was transferred to the U.S. to be tried, and nine have died, the most recent being Adnan Latif, in September 2012. 59 men are still held, and 20 of these men have been recommended for release by high-level governmental review processes.

A description of life in Guantanamo's "offshore oil & gas industry ".
"Latif and other prisoners described Guantanamo conditions to Latif attorney Falkoff when he and other U.S. attorneys were first allowed to visit them in November 2004: "During the three years in which they had been held in total isolation, they had been subjected repeatedly to stress positions, sleep deprivation, blaring music, and extremes of heat and cold during endless interrogations." Latif also described to Lakoff a visit to his cell by an 'Immediate Reaction Force" team:
A half-dozen soldiers in body armor, carrying shields and batons, had forcibly extracted him from his cell. His offense: stepping over a line, painted on the floor of his cell, while his lunch was being passed through the food slot of his door.
"Suddenly the riot police came," he recounted. "No one in the cellblock knew who for. They closed all the windows except mine. A female soldier came in with a big can of pepper spray. Eventually I figured out they were coming for me. She sprayed me. I couldn't breathe. I fell down. I put a mattress over my head. I thought I was dying. They opened the door. I was lying on the bed but they were kicking and hitting me with the shields. They put my head in the toilet. They put me on a stretcher and carried me away."
Latif became a frequent hunger striker, and described being force fed as "like having a dagger shoved down your throat." The Miami Herald writes that at times Latif "would smear his excrement on himself, throw blood at his lawyers, and on at least one occasion was brought to meet his lawyer clad only in a padded green garment called a 'suicide smock' held together by Velcro."

You justify this and condemn what the Government of Cuba did - wonder if they'll ever find a cure for the disease of "Double Standards"?
As I said, the only concentration camp on Cuba was and is till being run by the Americans
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Dec 16 - 02:29 AM

Orange one-piece coveralls Jim - the "uniform" of the offshore oil & gas industry in the tropics since the 1970s.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 02:54 PM

"except for Danilo Maldonado, who languishes in a Cuban prison."
How far from Guantanamo is he and does he have to live chained in a cage and wear a boiler suit in temperatures averaging 92 degrees and rising to 100 in midsummer?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 02:53 PM

Go on, have a guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 02:30 PM

Well, bobad, in your own nation of choice hundreds of prisoners are held for months or years sans charge, in many cases not even knowing why they're there.

Actually they know very well why they are there. I have no idea what you mean by "your nation of choice".

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 01:43 PM

This is a bit off-topic, and quite probably belongs in another thread.

I took Russian in high school. Among the source materials on our classroom's shelves was a stack of almost-never-read copies of "Soviet Life". Seems during the enlightened latter period of the Cold War someone who believed in peace, love, and understanding arranged for Our Government, the good ol' USA to publish a popular magazine in the USSR, called 'USA', or, in its Russian incarnation, "ClllA" where those three upright ls are standing together for the Russian letter 'sha'. I was able to buy a copy of C111A in Moscow a few years later, but that's another story. These copies of "Soviet Life" were in English and designed to show off the best that the Soviet Union wanted the outside world to see of itself. Big color photographs but no glossy paper and I clearly remember seeing developer's fingerprints on the illustration. Point is, there were no reader's fingerprints because the publication was exceedingly dry, full of stories about great agricultural progress and the kind of human interest tales that might appeal to a ear, nose and throat clinician but not a young homemaker or model car buff. Dry stuff, downright boring if you're an American teen.

Meanwhile, the copies of the American derived glossy, colorful, C111A flew off the shelf when they went for sale in the USSR (Personally witnessed by me at a later date). So, the Soviets made sure there was a rule limiting the access that Yankee propaganda had in their country behind the iron doily. They mandated an equal magazine quantity count between the U.S. CIIIA and the U.S.S.R. Soviet Life. So someone, maybe the U.S. government, bought lots of copies of "Soviet Life" in order to assure an adequate quantity of American mags to be released over there, and that was why there was a nearly untouched STACK of them in my high school's language classroom, and probably many more classrooms across the fruited plain.
So I was in that classroom not for instruction from my equally awesome and fearsome Russian teacher, Mr. Morse, but as part of a study period, and I idly started thumbing through one of these dreary publications. After an article with pictures of Young Soviets at band practice, I found a Q & A section. I don't remember any of the Qs and As but for one:

Q: What do you think of political jokes?

I don't remember the A, just that it was serious and analytical. The fact of the matter is that Russians, whether pre-Soviet, Soviet, or post-Soviet are TERRIFIC at political jokes. But the official Soviet line had to be prepared by an official Soviet writer of an offical Soviet publication. Talk about groupthink! So the answer was dry and serious. The point of this story is that even as a tender, rather immature high schooler, I knew the American answer to this question:

"Political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected."

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 01:42 PM

Well, bobad, in your own nation of choice hundreds of prisoners are held for months or years sans charge, in many cases not even knowing why they're there. Same the world over. And it stinks wherever it happens. At least yer man knows what he did wrong. Well unless you think that spraying paint everywhere is hunkydory. Yes it's very hard on him. He'll be out within days and you know it, if he isn't already.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 01:25 PM

Viva la Opresión

"The end of the nine-day official mourning period of Fidel Castro's death means life is back to normal for most Cubans — except for Danilo Maldonado, who languishes in a Cuban prison.

His crime? On the day of Castro's death, the 33-year-old dissident graffiti artist known as "El Sexto" marked the occasion by spray painting his street name on a Havana hotel wall, along with the cheeky message "Se fue" (He's gone).

It didn't go over well with authorities."

"They have been upset with Danilo from the beginning," said Antonio Rodiles, a friend of Maldonado and a well-known political activist in Cuba. "Because this kind of totalitarian regime doesn't like the humour and he's making fun of these people. They are not accustomed to that."

Rodiles, a vocal critic of the government, said he himself has run afoul of the Cuban authorities and has also been arrested and assaulted."

CBC in Cuba

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 05:13 AM

I'm happy to agree to that as a civil conclusion, robomatic. We may have different perspectives but at least we can avoid black-and-white oversimplifying.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 04:14 AM

"Every military action taken by Israel against it's neighbours has been a response to aggression."
And every action by its neighbours has been to Israeli military aggression and expansionism
Where do you go from there - other than to decide for yourself whose cause is the most worthy?
Personally, I have no time for any State based on religion, it is the effect on human beings that concern me.
It seems that, with this conflict, we have a wealthy, successful and powerful State forcing out an impoverished, badly armed underdeveloped one.
I refuse to take sides on the rights and wrongs of the conflict, but I recognse war crimes and human rights abuses when I see them.
If both are guilty, then both should stand trial on the basis of all the facts, not on who has the biggest guns and powerful enough friends to prevent trials to take place with vetoes.
"Greg, self defense is not aggression."
Expansionism is not self defence
"BDS is the upshot of a Jew hating, anti-Semitic"
And here you announce which side you are on - antisemitically - it is, by definition, antisemitic to associatete the actions of Israel with The Jewish People
B.D.S. is a non-violent defence against expansionism and ongoing war crimes.
"You had to know this was coming:"
Why should we, this is what has been happening throughout tis argument – an excuse for why it was permissible for the United States to interfere in the politics of a nation whose politics they didn't agree with.
A pictorially obviously gung-ho American propaganda sight justifying the massacres that took place in Vietnam and America's continuing interference in South American politics,, citing such lily-white heroes of democracy as Henry Kissinger, isn't going to help a bit.
I could just as easily grab chunks from Marxism Today or Pravda to show the opposite – but why should I – it's all propaganda defending one point of view or another.
One of the things this argument has helped me do is bring together all the bits and pieces I (think I have) learned and relate them.
1950s MacCarthyism, the Cuban Blockade, Berlin, the possible murders of Lumumba and Dag Hammarskjöld and the deposing of Kwame Nkruma, Vietnam and Cambodia…. all related as part of an ideological struggle.
All you need to do is decide which objective is right or wrong for you.
If we're not going to get any further on Castro, as we obviously are not, let those of us who are interested move on to that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 10:23 PM

Steve,you're right about boiling things down too far. I don't want to boil any further down this line which to me is much of a cold war rehash. Obviously we're not done with it, but maybe we should think about being done with it, and retain some of the same idealism you speak of, speaking up for the ordinary people.
I got to visit London many years ago when very young and I discovered Sunday at Marble Arch. You could find any viewpoint in the world there, it seemed, with a soapbox to match. People would say incredible things and tell one incredible stories with passion but not much hate. Don't know if the tradition has been maintained, but with the English anything is possible.
As I wrote earlier, I think as far as I am concerned in this thread I've reached an irreducible difference with you and some of the other posters and I have no personal antagonisms at this time and I'm going to try not to add in unless I've got something new to add.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 08:59 PM

"Interesting that we each acknowledge 'our' preferred state does bad things for good reasons. So we neither think one equivalent to the other.
It was you singling out Cuba as somehow better than all that. Now that you admit it's not pure, as the old joke goes, now all we're arguing about is the price. And I think the Cubans were sold out pretty cheaply."

You know what you can do with your "preferred states" nonsense. I stick up for the ordinary people who are trying to do the best for themselves and their families, not "states." I've stuck up for the ordinary people of Israel dozens of times on this forum. I want their state to be as good as it can be, thank you, just as I want the ordinary Cuban people's state to be as good as it can be. And, if you don't mind, less of the "now that I admit" bullshit, implying that I've relented on something, which I haven't. Finally, I'm not having that silly penny-in-the-slot nonsense about doing "bad things for good reasons." If we want to talk about the complexities of national and international politics constructively we have to do a lot better than that. You can boil things down way too far, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 07:42 PM

Interesting that we each acknowledge 'our' preferred state does bad things for good reasons. So we neither think one equivalent to the other.
It was you singling out Cuba as somehow better than all that. Now that you admit it's not pure, as the old joke goes, now all we're arguing about is the price. And I think the Cubans were sold out pretty cheaply.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 07:29 PM

"An earlier post by yourself indicated that somehow one state, Israel, was responsible for all sorts of aggression against its neighbors while pure little Cuba was not guilty of such. I am simply adding in that there is lots of information out there about Cub exporting military might far beyond its borders for its own purposes."

I've never referred to "pure Little Cuba" and no post of mine carries that sentiment. I acknowledged in reply to your post that Cuba sends its military overseas to aid various causes and I reminded you that, when it comes to that, we're all at it, troops on the ground, military bases, aircraft carriers, air strikes, supplying weaponry to guerrillas, the lot. Not to speak of fighting proxy wars by arming countries such as Israel to the teeth. I also expressed regret that the world is like that. Singling out Cuba for that kind of adventurism when so many other countries are at it, including, egregiously, yours and mine, is highly invidious. It is not at all the same thing as aggression towards your immediate neighbours via incursions, blockades, invasion, occupation and air attacks. There is no equivalency there at all. And what we really don't need is the equivalency of the schoolyard. I'd also remind you that Israel has, in spite of BDS, enjoyed amazingly advantageous trade deals with the US and EU, not to speak of never having to worry about where its military might comes from. At the same time, Cuba has endured a half-century of unnecessary and inhuman impoverishment at the hands of the US and massively diminishing returns from its own allies. What price equivalence?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 06:52 PM

Every military action taken by Israel against it's neighbours has been a response to aggression.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 06:47 PM

And then there's self deception, and/or self justification, Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 06:39 PM

Greg, self defense is not aggression.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 06:27 PM

Robo, Israel IS responsible for aggression against its neighbors unless you subscribe to the Scottie Nell Hughes/Trumpist agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 06:12 PM

An earlier post by yourself indicated that somehow one state, Israel, was responsible for all sorts of aggression against its neighbors while pure little Cuba was not guilty of such. I am simply adding in that there is lots of information out there about Cub exporting military might far beyond its borders for its own purposes.

Is it all the same to you, Steve?

It seems to me that you don't believe in equivalency, either.

You can go on and debate the niceties of the state you like versus the state you don't like, but you clearly play with favorites.

That is the extent of my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 05:34 PM

Are you criticising Cuba's sending of troops to assist other military causes as though that is unique to Cuba, by any chance? Well, we can all wish the world wasn't like that, but we're all at it. Right now, all over the place, now and ever shall be. Typical of you right-wingers to hold up left-wing regimes as erstwhile pillars of virtue who have all inevitably fallen. Naturally, right-wing regimes can't be held up to this scrutiny because, well, they haven't got any of those inconvenient principles in the first place!

I'd also add that your source is that nasty mix of dubious facts and polemic typical of tabloidisation. Not measured, not to be relied on.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 05:22 PM

You had to know this was coming:

Cuban Military 'Assistance'

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 05:20 PM

So you believe in freedom of speech as long as it's not in Israel. Nice one! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 04:24 PM

BDS is the upshot of justified international outrage

BDS is the upshot of a Jew hating, anti-Semitic, Qatari hypocrite by the name of Omar Barghouti who, although he actively lobbies for worldwide economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel is currently studying at Tel Aviv University.

As for the rest of your post - the usual lie filled garbage that marks you for what you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 03:07 PM

Apples and carrots

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 03:05 PM

Well, robomatic, I haven't heard anything about Cuba invading surrounding states and killing innocent civilians there, bulldozing homes, blockading one and a half million people In a massive open prison, leaving hundreds of thousands of cluster bomblets to blow children's legs off in Southern Lebanon, dividing families and farms with an apartheid wall, illegally possessing nuclear weapons, stealing the best land for its settlements, discriminating against a quarter of its population, massacring refugees... BDS is the upshot of justified international outrage. The Cuban embargo is just another sorry Cold War relic of the US using its enemies as pawns in its standoff with the Soviet Union. Apples and pears. Ask bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 02:59 PM

Use of the term Blockade
Fidel Castro announces general mobilization after the announcement of Cuba blockade by US President John F Kennedy, in Havana, on Oct. 29, 1962.
Time Magazine

The aim of this study is to provide an empirical basis for theories about political coalitions formed to apply economic sanctions against a target country. An excellent example is the economic blockade of Cuba by the United States, during which successive Republican and Democratic administrations have pursued economic measures to achieve a political objective.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3227652?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Term used 40 time in article

The United States and the Global Economic Blockade of Cuba: A Study in Political Pressures on America's Allies
MORRIS H. MORLEY Council on Hemispheric Affairs*
The Legality of the U.S. Economic Blockade of Cuba under International Law
Paul A. Shneyer Virginia Barta false
Term used 45 times in article

Washington Maintains Economic Blockade on Cuba. "Absurd" Says Cuban Foreign Minister
Global research
Term used 10 times in article
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-maintains-its-blockade-on-cuba-absurd-says-cuban-foreign-minister/5546330

Cuban Government Describes Devastating Effects of U. S. Economic Blockade
by W. T. WHITNEY
Counterpunch
Term used 11 times in article
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/cuban-government-describes-devastating-effects-of-u-s-economic-blockade/
"You "advocate a boycott of Israeli goods"
I advocate the support of a BOYCOTT of Israeli goods in support of the officially called one in order to protest about Israeli war crimes and proven human abuses
A little different from a worldwide economic blockade of Cuba lasting 50 years in order to crush a political system and starve an entire eople into submission.
It seems they you have problems with eqivelancy - not me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 02:30 PM

Jim:

You "advocate a boycott of Israeli goods" and rail against the United States for restricted trade with Cuba, have I got that right?

Sounds like you do not believe in 'equivalency' either.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 01:41 PM

This has now become a battle of face-saving semantics

No battle at all, the definitions are perfectly clear. Repeating a lie does not make it a truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 01:39 PM

U.S. RENEWS BLOCKADE
You've already had quotes from the U.N. and Amnesty using the term
This has now become a battle of face-saving semantics
In the end it proves nothing - U.S. action has stifled the Cuban economy in order to break the Government - end od story
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 01:38 PM

If I call a carrot an apple does that make it an apple?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit2: So long, Fidel Castro (1926-2016)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 01:34 PM

"It also referred to the blockade as "genocidal" according to U.N. conventions, and labelled it an act of "economic war," while thanking those around the world that have supported Cuba in demanding an end to the hostile blockade."
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/US-Blockade-on-Cuba-Is-Genocidal-20160923-0006.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-renews-sanctions-and-keeps-blockade-on-cuba/5545957