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BS: The Alternative Facts Thread

Greg F. 20 Feb 17 - 06:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Feb 17 - 06:22 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Feb 17 - 03:33 AM
Stu 20 Feb 17 - 03:18 AM
Fossil 19 Feb 17 - 11:04 PM
Fossil 19 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM
DMcG 19 Feb 17 - 05:39 PM
Fossil 19 Feb 17 - 05:24 PM
Stu 19 Feb 17 - 10:42 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Feb 17 - 04:09 AM
Acme 18 Feb 17 - 11:28 AM
Greg F. 18 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 09:08 AM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 06:52 AM
gillymor 18 Feb 17 - 06:40 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 06:23 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 17 - 06:15 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 17 - 05:41 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 05:05 AM
Teribus 18 Feb 17 - 04:26 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM
Teribus 18 Feb 17 - 02:15 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 06:02 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM
Greg F. 17 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 04:56 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 12:17 PM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 11:39 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM
Acme 17 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 10:41 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 10:08 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 09:58 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 17 - 09:42 AM
Greg F. 17 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM
Iains 17 Feb 17 - 08:13 AM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 07:56 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 17 - 07:51 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 06:25 PM

Yeah, ya seen one foreign country, ya seen 'em all. Kinda like trees - ain't that right, Gipper?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 06:22 PM

Sweden? Pakistan?

What's the difference, they're both foreign. This is just typical nitpicking.

I can see him getting Iran and Ireland mixed up before he's done.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 03:33 AM

"Now Trump supporters are saying there's a huge media cover-up in Sweden. "
Yeah - 'course it has
And nobody tweets there, do they!!
This man is sick, sick, sick - and the silence from his supporters is just as sick
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 03:18 AM

Now Trump supporters are saying there's a huge media cover-up in Sweden. The swallow Trump's line on the media hook, line and sinker and now simply invent a world to be outraged by and which enables their hate even more.

Shine on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 11:04 PM

"Last night in Sweden" now seems to be related to a discussion SCROTUS had seen on Fox News (where else?) in which a journalist Ami Horowitz, who had visited Sweden, claimed a link between rising crime and refugee admissions. But not related to any specific incident.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

Well, if you are DT, you could!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM

Last night? Months ago? All same in Trump's mind. Have heard the Pakistan theory as well and it makes about as much sense! Time, space, distance, countries, all meaning-free. In the world of alt. reality, anything is possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:39 PM

Sorry, fossil, but he specifically referred to 'last night in Sweden'. That can't be an attack several months ago. Then on the news tonight the case was being proposed that it referred to a general increase in crime level. That doesn't fit with "last night" either. The theory that he mixed up an attack in Pakistan seems most plausible but that would require admitting to making a mistake. It seems unlikely we will hear that from the White House. I'd put higher odds on a claim that the footage of him saying it is fabricated.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:24 PM

The terrorist attack in Sweden was not exactly "non-existent". What it has turned out to be, in fact was a right-wing neo-Nazi attack by some skinheads - who have all now been arrested - on an immigrant centre. In referring to this one incident which happened several months ago, SCROTUS hasn't really made his case against immigration, except indirectly that the presence of immigrant centres tends to provoke backlashes from insecure white male idiots. Sweden remains unmoved otherwise and some economists are crediting the immigrant intake with the excellent economic results achieved by the country in recent weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 10:42 AM

Trump fires up the crowd by lying to them in Florida, this time about a non-existent terrorist attack in Sweden.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 04:09 AM

"how can you defend the activities of the US security services after a lifetime of speaking against them?"
I'm not defending them, I am praising their actions here in relation to Trump, where you are choosing to use one of the few good things that have done to defend a dangerous monster.
How about explaining the unconstitutional and illegal actions of 'The Man Who Would Be King' instead?
Trump's actions are ruled illegal and unconstitutional by the court so, like the 'Angry Bird' that he is, he vents his tweeting fury on the "so-called" judges.
Is that your take on democracy?
Trump's team enlists the aid of an extremely aggressive foreign power which is engaged in a bloody, genocidal war, to win the Presidency
Is that your take on democracy?
Are we likely to see you using the term "democracy" as you do "liberal" to denigrate progressive people and ideas?
It's the logical path you are on to openly declaring your right-wing extremism.
I don't expect an honest response to any of these, but as I've said in the past - your silence speaks volumes.
Now - let's hear it for whistle-blowers who tell us what we have a right to know
Gawd bless 'em, every one, as Tom Cratchit was heard to remark!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 11:28 AM

Ake, like Trump, does it hurt your little feelings that whistle blowers are outing crimes so early in his administration? Good.

As federal employees they swore allegiance to The CONSTITUTION, not to the president. That gives them the moral high ground when it comes to bringing down a petty president who wants to play king.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM

how can you defend the activities of the US security services

Because, this time, they're defending the Constitution. Full stop.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM

Et tu Jim????   how can you defend the activities of the US security services after a lifetime of speaking against them?
Oh how soon they forget.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:08 AM

We have an interesting situation here in Ireland at present
The actions of an honest policeman in blowing the whistle on corrupt practices in Ireland's Guarda Siocorna has led to an unprecedented smear campaign by the force (involving untrue accusations of sexual assault), which has now to the setting up of an enquiry, the demands for the commissioner to stand aside, a call for a general election and the possible resignation of the Taoiseach, (Prime Minister)
Let's hope America has the courage to produce more whistleblowers
Give me whistle blowers over a secret society anytime
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM

I think it has to do with leaking classified information Jim.

But I'm not certain about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM

"Perhaps one of our US friends can explain if it is illegal for the security services to leak against the sitting President's administration?"
Moot point
If the subject of those leaks is disclosure of illegal, undemocratic and unconstitutional information, surely it is the duty of the security forces to pass on that information.
The President is not above the law nor the interests of the American people
Unverifies and uninformed leakers are not comparable
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:52 AM

Perhaps one of our US friends can explain if it is illegal for the security services to leak against the sitting President's administration?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:40 AM

"Donald Trump Loves Leaks. Except When He Doesn't"

To quote the Everly Brothers, or their songwriter, "So Sad to Watch Good Love Go Bad"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM

Language can be terribly subtle, and word order is just as important as tense in terms of the framing the idea. But the reason it is important to emphasise the time order is that it clarifies who, if anyone is being hypocritical. The Democrat approach can be read as "We will treat you exactly as you treated us", where as the Trump order - I apologise for implying it was all Republicans - is "We insist on being treated better than we treated you".

Each individual leak is illegal, or it is not. I don't think we have any evidence which of the various leaks were ok, dubious or outright against the law, but I am confident there were a mix on both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:23 AM

The difference is in the tenses "D", I made it clear by using the past tense which set of leaks came first. A bit clumsy I suppose, but amounting to the same thing at the end of the day.
Additionally. leaks from the security services against the President or his administration is a serious crime, I believe?

Looking again, the time line does matter, it is hypocrisy for the protesters to condemn leaks from an unverified source(hackers) yet applaud what they must know as a serious crime?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:15 AM

More alternative facts from you, Teribus. Now I acknowledge that I'm guilty of breaching the intended spirit of this thread so that's my lot on that theme with you here.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:41 AM

they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration, yet screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions

I have steered fairly clear of this thread, but there is quite a good 'alternative fact' in that sentence, because you have swapped the time order. Let's correct the time order first:

[Democrats] screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions, yet they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration

And now let's change the viewpoint of that exact scene:

[Republicans] gleefully applaud leaks when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions, yet they scream to high heaven leaks from the security services against the Trump administration


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:05 AM

"Ehmmm Jom,"
You obviously have no intention of behaving like an adult
I wonder if any passing forum fairy has any better luck than I have in persuading you to do so before you fuck up another discussion
I am not interested in the "he hit me first" mentality - I left that behind fifty-odd years ago
Grow up and let's discuss subjects without your eternal ego tripping
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 04:26 AM

Ehmmm Jom, Shaw doesn't even have the manners to address his questions to the person he wants the answer from.

Additionally Shaw does happen to be his correct name AFAIK.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM

"Shaw, if you can't be arsed to answer the questions"
If you can't be arsed to address people decently, why don'y to just fuck off?
Your obsessively ill-manned arrogance to everybody who disagrees with you has no place on a debating forum
You bring nothing to a debate other than your self-obsession
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 02:15 AM

Shaw, if you can't be arsed to answer the questions put to you by others, can you offer me any reason at all why people should answer yours? I cannot think of one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM

Give me the thread titles.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 06:02 PM

The homosexual "marriage" threads amounted to many thousands(there were several of them) and I ploughed a lone furrow on most of them, assisted by the few real liberals who inhabit this place and believe in freedom of speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM

"......why this behaviour is allowed I cannot understand, when others are taken to task for trying to have an adult debate."

And some of us wonder why your lying behaviour is allowed. I'm still waiting for you to tell me which threads of "many thousands" of posts you influenced so much. I can't seem to find them. Before you start attacking other people you seriously need to clean up your own act. Just start by being truthful. We can deal with the rest of your issues later.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM

No Greg, these words were uttered by someone much more intelligent and insightful than me. I was using them in a futile attempt at irony :0(

However we seem to manage to disagree all the time without resorting to misrepresentations or bad feeling.....when I say that I like your style , I mean it. Debate should be like that, leaving the personal stuff out.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM

First, Ake, lets dispense with "alternative facts" and call the crap peddled by Twitler& the Trumpists what it is: LIES.

The thread never moved away from the constant stream of lies coming out of the mouth of Twitler and his wall-street corporate crony cabinet.

I you consider pointing out these lies for what they are is not "a full scale attack" on the president and calling the people pointing out these lies "sore losers" is just channeling the deranged five-year-old egomaniac that occasionally (when he's not holed up in one of his hotels or golf courses) occupies the White House.

Give over, already and remember that you are a self-confessed "Scottish Trump apologist, who knows F*** all about US politics".


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM

Try a "figure of speech" or "poetic license", normally used as a common way of making a point clearer. The impact the likes of Akenaton and Keith A have on threads is that they minute they rip your arguments to bits and challenge your contentions there is a group of at least six of you jump in spouting unadulterated bollocks, to use Steve Shaw's expression (By the way it's the bollocks that is Steve Shaw's expression - It is my opinion massively backed up with evidence that it is unadulterated bollocks.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 04:56 PM

Well, this started as an "Alternative Facts" thread, but within a few posts it had degenerated into a full scale attack on President Trump and his administration, just the usual bile from bad losers, they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration, yet screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions

The point being that when the thread moved away from a list of alternative facts and into attack mode, the way was clear for members who do not think that Donal-John is the devil incarnate to offer up their views.
I have no intention of trying to have threads closed, as could be seen from the Barthes thread where attacks by several members on myself interrupted the flow of the discussion and Bill asked for the thread to be closed.
On the Labour Party thread a group of people have been trying to have the discussion terminated by taking it off topic and chattering amongst themselves on matters which have absolutely nothing to do with the Labour Party......why this behaviour is allowed I cannot understand, when others are taken to task for trying to have an adult debate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 12:17 PM

If you have such good eyesight, please show me the threads with the many thousands! 😅


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM

Second what Acme said, this thread is too important to get closed due to the usual backbiting. Start your own Trump thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:39 AM

Steve Shaw - 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

There ya go, Teribus. Wot he said.


Absolutely Shaw and here is how you responded to that post of Akenaton's

Steve Shaw - 16 Feb 17 - 06:18 PM

"So some threads that you instigated ran to "many thousands of posts"


Tell me Shaw where in the following does he mention threads that he has instigated?:

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

I ask Shaw because I have very good eyesight and I just simply cannot see any reference in that remark to the instigation of anything. I thought that you claimed to be an educated man - can't you read? Do you not understand plain English? Or do you have to "make stuff up" to pick a fight?

You have just been caught out ex-union activist, you are a Troll - to make a point you have to invent stuff - that Steve Shaw Spat thread of Stu's is a damned good idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM

Well yes, that was mere nonsense. But on other occasions it's nonsense plus bigotry plus ignorance plus bile, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM

Another thread in a complete tangle as it shifts to argue over the nonsense that Ake spews and how it should be treated. His work here is done.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

There ya go, Teribus. Wot he said.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:41 AM

"I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands." - Shaw

Only trouble Shaw is that Akenaton made no such claim did he? All he said was that his comments on the threads he contributes to attach a great deal of attention by way of responses.

As to this addressed directly to Stu - "just try to remember whose side I'm on." - Is this another indication that you and your pals do not act in concert? Thought you weren't supposed to be on anybody's side.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM

"I simply asserted that I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands."

With all due respect, apart from you two no-one gives a shit about Ake's claim and it's no relevant to the thread, just another episode in your ongoing spat. Start a "Steve's Spat Thread".

Now I'm in a spat. Shine on.


"He did it in your thread so why didn't YOU pick him up?"

I don't care about it being my thread, just I didn't intend it to turn into a Ake/Shaw lovefest which it is in danger of doing.


" Every thread I start here gets waylaid but I don't moan and groan about it like you do"

You're obviously a far better man than I.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

"If the mods won't sort him, I'll have a go. Sod it."

Ridiculous. Arrogant.

I started this thread to keep track of what the Trumpster was up to and provide a bit of light relief and speculation as to his motives. If you three want to ruin it with your usual love-in can I suggest you go somewhere else and give the rest of us a chance?


Blimey, and WE'RE arrogant! 😂 Every thread I start here gets waylaid but I don't moan and groan about it like you do. I simply asserted that I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands. He did it in your thread so why didn't YOU pick him up? For the same bloody reason that I DID pick him up, that's why - because it's a free country. The thread will go whichever way it will and you're no more a thread dictator than I'm an anti-ake mod. And, while you're reaching for your Rennies, just try to remember whose side I'm on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:08 AM

More "AF's" from Twitler's press conference yesterday according to a fairly neutral source, USA Today:

"• The president praised his administration's implementation of his anti-terrorism executive order, which has been largely blocked by the courts. "The rollout was perfect," he said. But the order caused confusion at the nation's airports, including for green-card holders and dual citizens.

• Trump said that the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which unanimously decided not to reinstate Trump's travel ban, has had its rulings overturned by the Supreme Court "at a record number." Not true.

• Trump wrongly said that Hillary Clinton "gave" Russia 20% of the uranium in the United States. Clinton was one of nine votes approving the deal. She alone couldn't have stopped the deal, which involved 20% of U.S. production capacity, not stocks, and the uranium can't go to Russia without export licenses.

• The president claimed his November victory was "the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan." It wasn't. Three presidents since Reagan captured a larger share of electoral votes than Trump did, including Republican George H.W. Bush.

"• Trump said "jobs have already started to surge" since his election, citing investments by Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Intel. But the investments, much of which were in the works before the election, were largely market driven.

• Contrary to the president's claim that "nobody mentions that Hillary received the questions to the debates," there was plenty of press coverage in October when it was revealed that former CNN contributor Donna Brazile shared several questions with the Clinton campaign during the primary election.

• Trump said he thought the media had "a lower approval rate than Congress." No — the public's approval of Congress is lower than its trust in the media."

The entire story with details for each entry here.

USA Today seems to have overlooked Twitler's falsehood regarding a potential meeting with Rep.Elijah Cummings. The old saw "You can tell he's lying because his lips are moving" seems to be especially true for this man-child.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:58 AM

"Just imagine the squeals if Hillary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime."

But she was; the FBI leaked her emails but sat on Trump's dealings with Russia. One is a procedural error, one is possibly treasonous.

There's plenty of reason to squeal at the moment; Trump's assault on the press is a work prime hypocrisy; Murdoch was sitting in on his interview with Gove and the other chap. Trump is seeking to control the flow of news to suit his own ends rather than for the purpose of conveying quantifiable truths. This should be thundered against; Farage would do the same for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:42 AM

"The way the American electoral system is constructed indicates beyond argument that Trump won"
Thew way he is behaving indicates beyond doubt that he has no regard for the American constitution and the verdict of the court has ruled that his behavior is illegal.
The evidence suggests that his and his colleagues' connections with Russia are also illegal as was that country's interference in the election.
He is a belligerent extremist right-wing bully – his actions yesterday show just how ruthlessly dangerous he is.
His warfare with the Judiciary, the Meia and the security services make him an extremely dangerous individual
You can hide behind a dubiously arrived at election result if you wish, but you (and Ake) need to start addressing the consequences of his actions.
Appeasing tyrants has cost a hell of a lot of lives, even in my lifetime.
I'm not sure what your piece from the pro-Trump, 'The Atlantic' is supposed to signify, but it is noteworthy to see that it talks about Eisenhower as an opponent of Russia while here we have Russia interfering in American democracy
As I say – address the consequences of letting this extremely dangerous man go unchallenged and stop hiding behind an electoral anomaly that has little to do with democracy.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM

A majority elected him.   LIE

persons and organisations are hiding in the shadows. LIE
Those who oppose him & his cronies are quite above-board and obvious about it.

the damage it is doing to the office of the POTUS. NONSENSE
In fact, Trump is doing considerable damage, while the oppiosition is attempting to PRESERVE democracy.

quotes can be found from Washington to JFK about hidden movers and shakers IRRELEVANT

In addition, Quotes from Calhoun and Teddy Roosevelt quite amusing, as you obviously have no idea who or what comprised the "invisible government" they were railing against. (HINT: look up oligarchy + plutocracy = Trumpism)

You seem little better than your hero in the area of lies, mis-statements and BS - see:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/trump-fact-check.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM

"What is being seen is the engineered take down of a legitimate President. Just imagine the squeals if Hillary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime."

Very well said Iains, my views exactly, no matter what party one votes for, what is happening is disgraceful, undemocratic and IF the President is removed the repercussions will be unimaginable.

The protests are about what sort of person the "liberals" think Donal John is, not what sort of President he will turn out to be.
These people "liberals" have been wrong about almost everything they have done in the last few years and their friends in the media and security services have a dismal record stretching back decades.
If you want common sense or truth don't ask the Cia or the "liberals"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 08:13 AM

Jim.
The way the American electoral system is constructed indicates beyond argument that Trump won.(if brexit had been carried out on a regional vote akin to the electoral college the leave percentage would have been far higher)

I believe the judiciary upheld the constitution just recently over the immigration ban for those from certain countries.

It is an established fact that both the mainstream media and alternate media on occasions dispense false news.

What is being seen is the engineered take down of a legitimate President. Just imagine the sqeals if Hilary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime.
There are precedents for replacing a President, the fact that these are not being followed shows a contempt for democracy and the voters.

My thoughts are rather along the lines of the link. Too many revolving doors will kill democracy. It seems the tail is wagging the dog.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-tyranny-of-defense-inc/308342/


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 07:56 AM

In his press conference yesterday the Orange Buffoon continued to lie about his victory in the electoral college.

Alternate Fact


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 07:51 AM

"That is not a happy place for a democracy to be."
Nor is the undermining of the judiciary, the media and the constitution
"A majority elected him for better for worse"
A majority did not elect him - Clinton 65,844,954 (48.2%) Trump 62,979,879 (46.1%) - a little more than a quarter of eligible voters supported Trump
However, his behaviour is both a threat to democracy and to the well-being of the planet
Isn't it worth attempting to stop such a monster, despite how many voted for him?
Jim Carroll


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