BS: UK General Election

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 11:13 AM

"Mr Turner is a Christian,"
I assume that's supposed to be a recommendation
The church is an archaic reactionary body which is rapidly being reduced to what it should always have been - a spiritual guide consulted voluntarily
The Christina church in England is a standing joke - it's what they put down on the form when you tell them you are an atheist
It's blood-soaked history makes Islamic extremism look positively liberal
"the Christian Church quite legally defines homosexuality as "wrong"..
The Christian church has no standing in Law - it has no right to decalre anything "evil" - particularly a perfectly natural state of being.
Try telling the generations of kids whose lives were ruined by being raped aand abused - sexually and physically, by clerics who were supposing to teach them right from wrong - that the church's pronouncements on sex makes any sense.
The same Christian church not only tolerated and facilitated the rape of children, but the Vatican still keeps the details of those centuries of rape closely guarded so their crimes will never be known.
Saying homosexuality is wrong is like demanding punishment for writing with your "wrong" hand
"Mr Turners views are not illegal
Not yet they're not, but hopefully it's not too long before society pronounces "gender hatred" as much a crime as race hatred
Are you for real?
Come back Ian Paisley -all is forgiven!!
This is Jurassic Park writ large
Un- fucking - believable!!
Bring back the ducking stool, I say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 11:12 AM

... though perhaps I should add that on the current showing there could be a lot of parrots in the chamber after June

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 11:05 AM

Am i a smug arsed pedant? I will fetch a mirror.. *smile* or ask a friend? "Bit of odd request but can you see a sort of smile in there?" Maybe I won't bother.

The tory question is easier. I'm a Labour supporter by inclination and a current member. I have voted for other parties sometimes because we vote for candidates not parties. Occasionally one of The Other Side is   superior in some way, especially if they have some specific interest. Even though Labour has not announced its candidate in this constituency yet that is unlikely to be a problem as my current (Tory) MP was outed as 'the laziest mp' in Feb of this year by the Independent. He basically juat shrugged.

I do not, and never have, knowingly voted for a penguin.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:43 AM

Btw.. I live in a part of the UK mired in tory safe seats...

Round here discussions about the election are futile and depressing...

All we can do is observe the vile tory propaganda machine
perniciously at work in the nation's sound bite mass media...

THe only option is a pained decision to perhaps vote tactically again for those treacherous Liberals... 😠

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:32 AM

oh.. I just noticed the typo.. I actually meant

"Quite a few people actually believed countless millions of people used to be convinced the world was flat"


bah.. smug arse pedants... [bet most of them vote tory...???] 😜

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:28 AM

Yeah.. elections.. Tough one..

"The Progressive Penguins Party".. or "The Reflatten the World and turn it into a Jigsaw Party"...??? 🤔

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:21 AM

punkfolkrocker wrote: Yeah... so clever clogs...

what about all the countless millions before the 6th Century BC.. ??? 🙄

At some point before the 6th C BC there was less than one million humans on the planet. Diminishing returns. Also any one who goes off shore in a boat knows the surface of the earth is curved. Stuff comes over the horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:20 AM

I was discussing this a few days ago. It is more subtle and interesting than that. As far as we can tell, Every society that sails is aware the earth is curved, so they knew the earth was not flat probably as far back as awareness of surroundings goes. By the 6thBC it was not simply a matter of "knowing the earth was round" it had been measured. But there is an easily overlooked quirk in this. They knew for certain the earth was not flat. But they essentially just assumed it was spherical because it was a common shape. As an interesting thought experiment can you propose an experiment which you as an individual could carry out (ie not relying on satellite images etc) whereby you could demonstrate the earth was round rather than any other curved shape like a grape or dimpled like a golfball or a conic section. It is obvious because of mountaons that the earth is not a mathematical sphere so we also have to decide when we call 'more or less round' just 'round'.





And then we can talk about elections.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:10 AM

.. unless you are saying that progressions in human intellect and ideas can positively disprove previously deeply believed myths and fallacies..???


ahem.. cough... religious intolerance.. cultural prejudices... ???

fair do's then Teri... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:04 AM

Yeah... so clever clogs...

what about all the countless millions before the 6th Century BC.. ??? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:01 AM

"countless millions of people used to be convinced the world was flat" - MYTH - a modern misconception since the 6th century BC the Greeks knew and could prove conclusively that the Earth was spherical NOT flat.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:38 AM

To tell you the truth Ake..

there are so many contentious issues that i personally couldn't give a monkey's
about getting worked up and stubborn over...

I have gracefully accepted the doctrine of benign indifference...

..unless other people's firms convictions are so unjustifiable and ridiculous / dangerous
I can't resist the urge to point it out assertively via the traditional medium of piss taking... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:33 AM

Well, for those who are more interested such things, the EU guidelines have just been agreed and signed off as their united stance, in less than a minute. I find them remarkably clear and to the point, unlike the UK White Paper setting out the guidelines on our side, which is, in my view, full of 'Barnum' statements which mean whatever you happen to wish them to do.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:31 AM

... and countless millions of people used to be convinced the world was flat
and ships could drop of the edges if they sailed too close...

Millions of people today believe silicon fake tits are more attractive and desirable than real natural breasts..

.. go figure...?????? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:28 AM

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:27 AM

Mr Turner is a Christian, the Christian Church quite legally defines homosexuality as "wrong".....I think the promotion of homosexuality, as in "Gay Pride" demonstrations, is wrong on health and societal grounds.
We are both entitled to our views, views that are shared by many millions of people.......to deny that entitlement is Fascist.

Additionally, by reading the link and listening to the young woman who was interviewed on BBC radio this morning, it is evident that the whole incident was set up by activists.

Mr Turner either had to renounce his principles or be hung for them....Fascism.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:17 AM

You are all missing the point, Mr Turners views are not illegal millions of people share them. Denying the right of free speech is Fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:01 AM

"Very many people view homosexuality as wrong, the Christian and Islamic religions for example."

.. yes.. the irrational domineering views of religions have been tolerated and abided by saner reasonable humanity
for far too long... 😣 😜

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 04:53 AM

A simple question Ake - no response forthcoming, no doubt
What is your 'final solution' to homosexuality?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 04:36 AM

"As part of your Nationwide search for Fascists Jim"
Sorry - don't get your point and I don't suppose you have the bottle to enlighten me
The feller is obviously just an intolerant twat as you are, but what has fascism got to do with it.
Anybody who claims a natural state of being or many millions of people, now fully accepted under law, is obviously not fit to take responsible office - he is, as you re a "queer-basher" without the bottle to go bashing, so he uses his position in society to do the job for him
You are a fascist because of your support for dictators and mass murderers
You are a Racist because of your mass hatred of foreigners and their culture
You are an intolerant bigot because of your refusal to accept a normal state of being in a significant percentage of human beings on this planet
Different states of mind - different designations to identify those states of mind - go buy a dictionary instead of hiding behind your own gobbledegook
Homosexuality is a natural fact and it is evil to persecute people because of their sexuality, whoever does so.
You single out Muslims, carefully forgetting the attitude of large sections of the Christian Church who would condemn millions of their followers to eternal hell fire and damnation for exactly the same thing
It was well within our lifetimes that homosexuality was a crime in Britain - they didn't start to decriminalise it until 1967 - one of our great war heroes, Alan Turin, was chemically castrated for not conforming to your narrow-minded set of ethics   
And you link confirms you have no intention of changing your view -
What do you propose to do about hetroos with sexually transmitted diseases - euthanase them out of harms way?
How about those carrying genetic defects - compulsory sterelisation?
THE WORLD HAS BEEN HERE BEFORE
You are one sick, spooky individual - and you dare question my sanity!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 03:59 AM

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

What's in your closet Ake?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 03:32 AM

As part of your Nationwide search for Fascists Jim, perhaps you would like to pronounce on the treatment of the Isle of Wight MP Andrew Turner who was set up for a media witch hunt over his personal views on homosexuality and forced to withdraw his candidacy.
The guy was asked directly on his views on a "Gay Pride" proposal and answered that he did not agree with promotion as he personally viewed homosexuality as "wrong" and "dangerous"

Very many people view homosexuality as wrong, the Christian and Islamic religions for example.   Anyone who has examined the health figures for male homosexuals would see the practice as extremely dangerous.......Fascism is alive and well amongst the "liberal" left it seems.   
Link

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 09:39 AM

Cruel "wit", Ake? Surely you meant to type "witlessness".

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 09:29 AM

"It's all right Jim, I was talking about wit and irony,"
She's a fascist half wit not the serious journalist you first claimed her to be
Her with is about on the level of Tommy Tiernan or Bernard Manning

This is "funny"??
"LITTLE ROCK, Ark. – Conservative commentator Ann Coulter, speaking at a traditionally black college, joked that Justice John Paul Stevens should be poisoned."

or this
JEWS NEED TO BE PERFECTED
After a 2009 appearance on Donny Deutsch's show "The Big Idea," Coulter suffered a public backlash when she remarked that Jews would be "perfected" once they became Christians. Not only did Deutsch, a Jew, tell Coulter that he found her remark offensive, Jewish groups accused her of anti-Semitism. "Ms. Coulter's assertion that Jews are somehow religiously imperfect smacks of the most odious anti-Jewish sentiment," said American Jewish Committee President Richard Sideman.

"OUR BLACKS ARE BETTER THAN YOURS"
During an appearance on "The Sean Hannity Show" in 2011, Coulter discussed then Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain. She criticized liberals for overlooking Cain's strengths because "all they see is a conservative black man," she said. "That's why our blacks are so much better than their blacks. To become a black Republican you don't just roll into it. You're not going with the flow. You have fought against probably your family members, probably your neighbors, you have thought everything out and that's why we have very impressive blacks in our party."

Coulter's repeated use of the possessive "our" raised eyebrows. Her phrasing seemed to indicate that blacks were property of some sort rather than unique individuals. Neither the Democratic Party nor the GOP owns African Americans, after all.

IMMIGRATION IS AKIN TO GENOCIDE
In a 2007 column called "Bush's America: Roach Motel," Coulter essentially likened immigration into the United States to white genocide.

She did so while criticizing George W. Bush's amnesty plan for immigrants.

"The Census Bureau recently estimated that whites already account for less than two-thirds of the population and will be a minority by 2050," Coulter states. "…One may assume the new majority will not be such compassionate overlords as the white majority has been. If this sort of drastic change were legally imposed on any group other than white Americans, it would be called genocide. Yet whites are called racists merely for mentioning the fact that current immigration law is intentionally designed to reduce their percentage in the population."

Remind me again about what you said about my joking about Trump being assassinated

She is a nasty, unoriginal racist and you are no different wit your "cuthroat Muslims"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 08:26 AM

" A blight of Blairites" mair like! :0(

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 08:24 AM

That's the thing about penguins.

You can be an Emperor without having imperialist ambitions
You won't find a penguin calling himself Il Duce , or goose stepping.
No snappy newsbyte catchphrases like 'coalescence of codfish' 'an ignominy of igloos', 'a chaos of kayaks'....a blizzard of Blairites'...simply wouldn't happen

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 08:20 AM

It's all right Jim, I was talking about wit and irony, something that you obviously have no understanding of.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 06:52 AM

"I thought someone as "droll" as yourself would appreciate Miss Coulter?"
Mac isn't a fascist
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 05:03 AM

Good morning Mr McGrath, Miss Hopkins seems to be trying to duplicate Miss Coulter, but without quite so much cruel wit.

I thought someone as "droll" as yourself would appreciate Miss Coulter?    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 04:02 AM

There were some quite good comments on Qiestion Time last night but the best was a remark early on from an audience member that he had bet his wife a few pounds the Tory representative would say "stablr and secure" and "coalition of chaos" the first time he was given an opportunity to speak. Sure enough, he won his bet.

All elections are serious: the decisions taken affect people lives for years. This time it is even more critical than usual. It is unacceptable to have the whole things driven by empty slogans.


So i propose we buy air horns and give them a blast every time any party just trots out its slogans. I want a serious discussion and if that's what it takes to point the party is not thinking, we should do it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 10:12 PM

Please KEEP her in the UK, Kevin. Coulter's more than we need over here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 07:15 PM

So how do you like Katie Hopkins, aken? Closest we've got to Ann Coulter in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 01:43 PM

"I do not have the time or inclination to continually refute your wild theories"
More dishonesty Ake
How long does it take to give a definition?
The truth is you are totally unable or unwilling to back up your unbelievably reactionary and inhuman statements
If you have more important things to do, go and do them - if you don't have the time to participate in debate on a debating forum - don't
Another thing to ignore
Not so long ago I made a somewhat tasteless joke about assassinating Trump - your reaction (as someone with no time on your hands) was to scream for the moderators and demand that such statements should not be allowed
Now here you are defending the rights of one of America's most toxically extreme political commentators to "free speech" after it has been pointed out that she proposed that Trump's "liberal" opponents should be poisoned.
Why is my right to free speech less important than hers - do I have to start sleeping with the Klan before I can say how I feel about Trump - or is it the old Orwellian thing about some animals being more equal than others ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 12:33 PM

Jim, I have a rather taxing life to attend to, I do not have the time or inclination to continually refute your wild theories on my political and social positions.
Basically I do not give a flying fuck what you think of me, you know nothing about me and your opinions are so wide of the mark as to be completely inconsequential.

Don't think for a minute that my failure to engage in any of your diatribes signifies anything other than the fact that I have more important things to do than chew the fat with a conspiracy theorist.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 12:20 PM

Definitely by the time I left Junior school it had been pointed out that the real reason was that they are indigenous to opposite ends of the earth.

Errr, that is the whole point, Nigel. Everyone is tempted to say because they are at different poles but then...

Oh, never mind. ake's joke is still better.

Go on then Raggy, I'll go for it.

Why not?

Better be worth it or the joke police may visit

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 09:23 AM

"Vote Labour - Kick out the Tories!!!"
Gladly Tim, but ony if they stop fpresenting a watered down Tory programme
Otherwise, what's the point - the Tories do Toryism better
'Support Corbyn's socialist policies', seems a better slogan
Has anybody examined Mayfly's proposed 'make the retired pay' pension changes yet - creepy
Voluntary euthanasia next
HORSE'S MOUTH CONFIRMATION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 09:00 AM

Remember not to shower with a polar bear

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: RTim
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 08:47 AM

Vote Labour - Kick out the Tories!!!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 08:46 AM

..anyway.. in my proposed manifesto...

All air flight journeys will be phased out and replaced by cycling..

A network of intercontinental trans oceanic cycle paths will reinvigorate the construction industry.

Annual holiday leave will need to be extended by months or years depending on the planned holiday route.

A Vote for the 2 Wheels and Buckets of Sweat Party will stimulate the Britain's arse muscles... ✔


Remember, save water - share a bath with a penguin...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 08:40 AM

How many BA staff do I want to put put of work for my compensation? None, obviously. But how many will I put out of work by choosing to fly with an EU airline rather than BA when I have the choice?

But please note I said consumers. Many of these are themselves business representatives whose work is jeorpardised if they do not get the the meetings on time. What the compensation does in practice is alter the price point where it is more economic to cancel or continue the flight. And that affects not only BA but all the business folk they are carrying at the time.

But you miss the main point. Europe has one model. Asia has a different model, which is basically let everyone book and make plans then cancel the flight without compensation if it would not be cost effective for the airline - and to hell with any other business impaced. BOTH models work, in their own way. The point is there is a choice and would like some way of predicting what the future will be.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 08:27 AM

"cases where the interests of the British citizens and the British businesses are not aligned"

Interests of the British businesses if harmed affect the British citizens who work for them. British Airways got a mention. They employ over 39,000 people. How many of them do you want put out of work in order that you receive £600 for a delay?

It is the airline, or some form of insurance paid for by the airline that pays out the compensation so where does this nominal cost to all other unaffected consumers come into it at present? As a potential cost to the airline that means compensation burden has to be factored into the price of every ticket sold leading to an increase in price. Is that in the interests of the individual?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 08:17 AM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 07:50 AM

..they can't get the wrappers off!
I think I heard that in infant school.
Definitely by the time I left Junior school it had been pointed out that the real reason was that they are indigenous to opposite ends of the earth.

(From Wiki): Penguins are a group of aquatic, flightless birds. They live almost exclusively in the Southern Hemisphere, with only one species, the Galapagos penguin, found north of the equator

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 07:50 AM

..they can't get the wrappers off!

I wouldn't worry about ake. He is going to demolish the capitalist system by voting Tory.

Come to think of it, that is a much better joke than mine

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 07:08 AM

'In case it has escaped your attention Akenaton we are leaving the EU.'

not really if Corbyn wins. he wants all EU citizens rights in the UK protected and to access the single market.more like brex-back in than brexit!
apparently that's why the fisher folk of Scotland are thinking of voting tory. Whether the tories will break the habit of a lifetime and keep a promise remains to be seen. right now the tories are the only party promising to tell the Spanish factory ships to bugger off.

still no clear policy statements about the penguins...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 05:29 AM

More unanswered quesytions Ake - your cowardly refusal to put your money where your extremist mouth is, is beginning to pall
SOMETHING ELSE NOT TO RESPOND TO
And this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-to-britain-has-not-increased-unemployment-or-reduced-wages-study-finds-10075047.html
(can't blue clicky)
Keep you silence coming - it underlines you agenda-driven dishonesty
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 05:18 AM

My comment was meant to be somewhat rhetorical: that's the question I want to see politicians answering. We have our views of course and we should express them but in the end it is the politicians who will decide so it them we need to hear. Instead we have the soundbites and have to guess their action.

Let's take a case like the EU agreed compensation rate for delayed flights. If a passenger is delayed by more than a certain number of hours they can get £600 compensation (as I did recently, which is why I can talk about this example); a similar flight I had in Asia was delated for days with no compensation.

Now that is a scheme that definitely helps consumers who are affected, at a very nominal cost to all the other consumers who are not delayed. However, if a company like BA is cutting out meals on flighta of up to 12 hours to save costs I am sure they would prefer out of the scheme.

So you have a wide range of options but broadly you can boil these down to protect consumers or benefit the business. And I would like some indicarion of the next governments attitudes.

This is of course minutiae in the scheme of things but the overall tradeoffs between citizens-consumers-businesses needs some guiding principles. Instead it is hidden behind the meaningless "Better for Britain" slogan.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 04:59 AM

In case it has escaped your attention Akenaton we are leaving the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 04:56 AM

The social chapter is not worth the paper it is written on if nobody has a f*****g job!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 04:53 AM

"Now explain how you deal with cases where the interests of the British citizens and the British businesses are not aligned,"

You change the economic system of course, but that is not going to happen any time soon so the one we have must be made to work as well as possible and that means an end to cheap foreign labour, training for our young people, a life on benefits no longer an option compulsory work experience for all school leavers, a new tax system which is seen to be fair, encouraging wealth creation without penalising the very poorest in society, more social housing, more essential services under public control, an end to "Globalisation"......

MOST OF THESE THINGS CANNOT BE PUT INTO PRACICE WHILE WE REMAIN IN THE EU....... Leave immediately!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Apr 17 - 04:19 AM

Getting back to the election: i know thwy are always vacuous but do the slogans sound even more lacking in coherence than usual to you? Do anyone think "strong and stable leadership" is inherently a good thing? Might it not be better to ask if it is leading you where you want to go? But no, lets hammer away saying S+SL at every opportunity. Wanting what is best for Britain? Obviously everyone does. Now explain how you deal with cases where the interests of the British citizens and the British businesses are not aligned, which is largely the stuff of the social chapter.