BS: On your bike

Subject: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 04:57 AM

A gigantic study - a quarter of a million commuters studied for five years, with things like smoking and weight taken into account has revealed that cycling has an extraordinary protective effect against cancer and heart disease.

The study of 264,337 people, published in the British Medical Journal, revealed that cycling is linked to a 45 per cent lower risk of cancer and 46 per cent less chance of heart disease, compared with driving or taking public transport.

Walking to work was found to reduce the chance of heart disease by 27 per cent, but there was no link with a lower risk of cancer or premature death. And in fact if you walk and get cancer, you have a higher chance of dying from the cancer, whereas if you cycle, your chance of dying is way lower.

Lars Bo Andersen, a professor at the Western Norwegian University of Applied Sciences, who was not directly involved in the research but wrote a commentary on it in the BMJ, said its findings "are a clear call for political action on active commuting", saying this had the potential to significantly improve public health by reducing rates of chronic disease.

"A shift from cars to more active modes of travel will also decrease traffic in congested city centres and help reduce air pollution, with further benefits for health," he said.

Many reports in newspapers but the graph in this report is particularly vivid in showing the health effects of cycling.

It is now urgently necessary that safe, protected cycling infrastructure be built so that all journeys under 3 miles/5km (20 minutes' pleasant cycle) can be made by bicycle.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 05:12 AM

Oooh I don't know Thompson. When I see cyclists on our Norfolk roads, they seem so vulnerable beside huge lorries and tractors etc. Our roads are narrow and twisting. I'm always worried about rounding a bend and finding a cyclist right in front of me.
In towns, they stop right beside the exhausts of vehicles and are presumably inhaling lots of diesel and petrol fumes.
It would be excellent if dedicated cycle tracks were provided everywhere (Holland has these) so one could bike in safety and without the air pollution.
I'm wondering if the static exercise bikes in gyms would be equally beneficial in preventing cancer? After all, the physical movements and energy output would be the same. My sister does an hour on hers in the house, and swears it keeps her in great shape.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 05:49 AM

Given the number of cyclists injured and/or killed in road traffic accidents I wonder if the two sets of statistics cancel each other out.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 06:13 AM

A shift from cars to more active modes of travel will also decrease traffic in congested city centres and help reduce air pollution, with further benefits for health
A very strange comment.
If a multi-occupancy car changes to multiple cycles that is an increase in traffic.
If the comment is meant to say an increase in congestion in city centres, then there would need to be a very large reduction in car numbers in order to compensate for the increased congestion caused by creating bike lanes.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 06:31 AM

Although I understand the sentiment I think the validity of all journeys under 3 miles/5km (20 minutes' pleasant cycle) can be made by bicycle needs to be investigated. May be true in flat cities but in hilly places you can be faced with a much less pleasant 20% or steeper climb whatever direction you go in!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 07:13 AM

Very few cars commute with multiple occupancy. Apparently in Central London as much as 32% of traffic is Uber drivers hoping for a fare! Bike lanes do reduce congestion in the long run as they encourage people to cycle and they seperate the 'slower' cycles from the 'faster' cars.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 07:58 AM

Apparently in Central London as much as 32% of traffic is Uber drivers hoping for a fare!
Surely as Uber drivers are not 'Hackney cabs' they are not permitted to 'ply for hire' so they would be just as well advised to park and conserve their fuel.
Bike lanes only have a chance to reduce congestion if people use them, and then it would need a large increase in cyclist numbers (with a matching decrease in driver numbers)to be effective.
In Cardiff (as elsewhere in the UK)the presence of dedicated cycle lanes does not mean they will be used. Cyclists still use the road or the pavement even where cycle lanes are present.
Cyclists are rarely prosecuted (in my experience) for ignoring the rules of the road.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:17 AM

There has been a huge increase in cycling numbers along the routes where cycle lanes have been introduced in London, to the point where some junctions are now seeing more than half the movements are on bicycle in peak hours. But, in actual fact, very little space has been given over to cycle lanes as a proportion of road space, just on the cycle super highways.

It seems the Uber drivers do not park but cruise around waiting for a call.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:20 AM

I turned a resort bike with automatic 12 speed transmission into an electric bike with a kit for the front wheel. I never went anaerobic riding it so the health benefits were negligible but the beauty is great.

In this area even Olympic cyclists get killed by cars. Bike Helmets do not prevent traumatic brain injury but only mitigate the severity.
Nigel is right about bikes ignoring traffic laws. If its done for car avoidance I don't see anything wrong with it.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:24 AM

Dave, depends on how hilly you mean by hilly! Unless you're living up a mountain, you can generally find a nice 5km to cycle.

Raggytash, the number of cyclists killed and injured (by careless drivers) is very low in comparison to the numbers cycling.

With climate change, the day of the private car carrying around one sluggish person is over. When we build proper infrastructure for cycling, as northern European cities like Odense and Oslo are increasingly doing, the number of injuries and deaths will drop to nothing other than the occasional freak my-hamster-ate-me accidents.

Cycling is already far safer than driving. The main danger to cyclists sharing road space with drivers is
distracted driving.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:30 AM

That's a pretty broad brush you're using Thompson. I see cyclists doing some daft things on a regular basis.

I used to be a motorcyclist and witnessed some absolute stupidity amongst my fellow riders. (not that I was entirely innocent)

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:32 AM

I see drivers doing daft things. Nothing broad about my brush.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:42 AM

"I see cyclists doing some daft things on a regular basis."
I drink to that one
I was in Dublin last week and on a five minute walk to the nearest newsagents I counted half a dozen cyclists on the wrong side of the road or on the pavement or jumping lights - terrifying in the centre of a big city.
I was delighted when Dublin city Council began to encourage cycling in the city centre to reduce congestion; now I'm beginning to wonder whether they should introduce a test and similar penalties for cycling offences to those faced by motorists.
Here, in the rural west, the major hazard is from the fleets of cyclists - holiday groups, or sometimes charity rallies, who insist in riding two or more abreast on narrow, winding country roads
One character in our local suggested that there should be a prize for the largest number you can knock down in one go!
I was a keen cyclist in London - 10 miles a day to and from work in the beginning, but I soon realised that way lay madness - or worse
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:45 AM

It's absolutely legal to ride two abreast, and the reason is that it's absolutely safe.

The "character" in the local who wants a prize for knocking down a 50kg cyclist like me with his two-ton car is the person whose joke is likely to kill me.

If you want to get cancer, it's your business. If you cycle, you cut your chances by half. Up to your silly self.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:46 AM

I am not disputing that you can find a 'nice 5Km' to cycle, Thompson but the phrase used was so that all journeys under 3 miles/5km (20 minutes' pleasant cycle) can be made by bicycle.

I have no doubt that from our house (In Airdale) I can find a nice 5Km either towards Skipton or Towards Keighley but if I try to head out of the valley in any other direction I am faced with a minimum 20% hill within half a mile one way and within 1 mile the other. I live in the valley, not up a mountain but not all my 5Km journeys can be a 20 minute peasant trip! Mind you, if I got a lot fitter I suppose they would become a lot easier :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:52 AM

In fact, Jim Carroll, it is you who has put my life in danger by repeating your fascist joke, exactly the kind of dog-whistle "funny" statement that has killed many people of the "wrong" race or religion or sexual orientation or politics long through history.

If I am killed by some careless idiot staring at his mobile phone as he drives, or someone who thinks it would be great fun to knock a cyclist off her bicycle, you will be responsible. You'll all be writing kind words in my obituary, but you will be responsible: I point my finger at you.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:57 AM

Mmmm - I have reservations about the 2 abreast business too. Yes, it is legal. Yes 2 cyclists are taking no more room than 1 car but...

(Din't you know there was one of them coming! :-) )

When you are on twisty and narrow dales roads and get 20 or more cycles riding 2 abreast you have the equivalent of an extremely long vehicle traveling at less than 20mph that is virtually impossible to overtake :-( There must be some common sense in the interpretation of the law and sadly that is often not in evidence.

Don't get me wrong here - I cycled all over the place when I was younger, fitter and dafter but at times I feel that cyclists are doing themselves no favours.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 08:58 AM

It might be legal Thompson but I would ask is it not sensible to ride in single file, particularly on narrow roads.

Yesterday I witness a cyclist crossing a bridge controlled by traffic lights. The road is one vehicle wide. The lights indicated that traffic could move East to West. Guess which way the cyclist was going. Yup he was cycling West to East. He'd gone through a red light, he was going against the permitted movement of the traffic ......... who would be to blame had an accident occurred.

Cyclists too have a duty of care ..........

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:02 AM

As a life long militant cyclist,
I am just as appalled as all the " Mr Angry hang and flog 'em Jeremy Clarksons " [perhaps even more so..???]
when I see grown men aggressively riding bikes on pavements,
or cycling whilst wearing headphones...

I'm also buggered because I never learned to drive,
and haven't been able to get on my bike for the last couple of years
due to old blokes problems with feet and knees...
so am consequently getting fatter and even less mobile..

..bastard vicious circle...!!! 😖


.. it's the cycle of life...

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:09 AM

No. The sensible thing, when cycling in a group, is to ride in twos, and when a car comes up, to separate into shorter bunches so the car can gradually hop past.

There are two aspects to this. One is that some of the newer clubs haven't learned this.

The other is that drivers are far too impatient, and when driving behind a group of cyclists going from 30kp/h to 50kp/h (if we're talking about clubs on training runs) are not prepared to wait for a safe time to pass, as they would wait without tantrums if it were a couple of tractors or trucks going the same speed.

And a third thing is the tone that has already shown itself in this thread, where "cyclists" are a single group, while "drivers" are individuals. Anyone talking like this may be assured (in their happy fantasy world) that I'll bring their points up at the compulsory meeting of all the cyclists of Ireland that happens every Saturday.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:23 AM

Having been a Motorcyclist Thompson I consider myself to be a considerate driver. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

I find it far easier to pass cyclists if they ride in single file, especially on narrow roads, such as those found in many places in Ireland. It allows me, the motorist, to give them more "elbow room"

Safer for them, safer for me.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:36 AM

But is it easier to pass 20 cyclists riding single file or two abreast, given that you must wait until it is safe to overtake?

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:39 AM

I agree that it is the sensible thing to do, Thompson, but sadly sensible is not what always happens :-( I am not sure what the best course of action is to resolve the issue or the overall issue of traffic in general. Better public transport would be great as would dedicated lanes not only for cyclists but for other road users. And keep juggernauts off our country lanes!

I am optimistic that we will get there eventually. I am just unsure where there is and what form of transport will take us :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:51 AM

Unless we're talking about Thompsons's speedsters, doing between 30kph & 50kph then the Highway Code should be a guide:
Rule 169

Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.


And I trust those faster riders aren't doing 50kph in a built up area!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 09:58 AM

And I trust those faster riders aren't doing 50kph in a built up area!

Do you say the same of car, 4x4, van and bus drivers?

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:05 AM

50Kph is 31Mph. Unless we are in a 20 limit it is legal everywhere! Speed limit + 10% + 2Mph is still the calculation used to allow for faulty speedos etc. Dunno about anyone else by the difference between my speedo and my sat nav seems to confirm that this is not far out.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:09 AM

Hi, Thompson. You have motivated me to get my bicycle out again. I live in a neighborhood of small streets, and I think I'll be safe. Besides, I have age and guile on my side.

Punkfolkrocker, have you considered a three-wheeler? Might be worth a trial ride if you have a place to store it.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:20 AM

Oh, Leeneia, you've made my day!

Use all your age and guile. Phones are ubiquitous and people drive along checking them while speeding through the city streets, arguing on Facebook or Twitter or sending inane texts.

The best way to cycle, in my world, is to use back streets as much as you can and work on the principle that virtually all drivers are insane as well as homicidal. Though many are decent, and if they see you will be considerate - try to catch their eye when you can.

And never, never, never cycle up the inside of a truck or bus.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:21 AM

It's an idea.. those Russian motor bikes and sidecars based on old mid 20th century classics do appeal...

I live in a town centre so don't actually need a bike...
But I just miss the daily exercise cycles to the coast and back...

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:27 AM

Those motorcycle sidecars were the most deadly dangerous (for the passenger) things on the road.

But Ikea have quite a nice bike for €450, and if you need it for bags of compost and stuff, you can buy a trailer to go with it for €160.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:31 AM

In Ireland if you have work (including the couple of days' teaching and the like that is the mainstay of many folkies) you can take advantage of the Bike-to-Work scheme, and buy a bike for 52% off (or up to, depending on your level of tax) through a government scheme. I think the British have a similar scheme. And similar schemes, Mr Google tells me, in lots of other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:40 AM

The speed limits in Ireland where Thompson is based are in kilometres per hour Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:43 AM

50Kph is 31Mph. Unless we are in a 20 limit it is legal everywhere! Speed limit + 10% + 2Mph is still the calculation used to allow for faulty speedos etc. Dunno about anyone else by the difference between my speedo and my sat nav seems to confirm that this is not far out.
That is 'guidance' only, not the law.

For fuller details see: Here where it clearly states:
Scottish police have decided not to follow the guidance at all, and will prosecute drivers for exceeding the limit by even 1mph, regardless of any device tolerance.[3] There is also talk of a review of the guidance, which was first issued in 2011, to take account of developments in speed enforcement technology.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:46 AM

So, is 50Kph not still 30Mph in Ireland then Raggy :-) I have not been to Ireland for yonks but the last time I was there the distance signs were in Kms and the speed signs still in MPH. Very confusing! If I remember rightly though the urban speed limit was still 30MPH. Has it changed?

Goth this weekend round your neck of the woods I think. Going to participate?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:50 AM

I've got black jeans and a black polo shirt on, does that count.....


....................


....................


...................


Dracula!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:59 AM

My claim to fame that nearly got me lynched was putting 'Happy shiny people' on the jukebox in the Little Angel at Goth weekend. :-)

The jeans and polo will do. How's your white make up and black eye liner?

Sorry, I seem to have recycled this thread...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 11:07 AM

...you can and work on the principle that virtually all drivers are insane as well as homicidal.

I've found, as a careful and considerate driver with 50 years plus driving experience, that it's best to work on the principle that all cyclists have a profound sense of entitlement, feel that its perfectly permissible to ignore the rules of the road, feel that the responsibility for their welfare is entirely that of motor vehicle operators and that they bear no such responsibility themselves, that they are mindless if not insane, and that they are largely suicidal.

YMMD

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 11:12 AM

Thompson speaks the truth from my POV. The truth however sharp and painful is still truth.

It is true I am a sluggish gas burner.

If car drivers are frustrated remember the larger frustration of the cyclist.

The road has the law of the seas. The smaller craft has the right of way. (when physics allow) My son is 20 and only bikes or takes a bus if the distance is too great.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 12:07 PM

my considered view is that inconsiderate selfish intolerant dangerous cyclists and motorists are most probably one and the same...

The same dick heads with exaggerated sense of entitlement no matter what their choice of transport or amount of wheels on any particular journey...

But motorists are behind the wheels of the most lethal capability weapons on the roads...

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 12:59 PM

"In fact, Jim Carroll, it is you who has put my life in danger by repeating your fascist joke, exactly the kind of dog-whistle "funny" statement that has killed many people of the "wrong" race or religion or sexual orientation or politics long through history."
Nobody but a moron would take that seriously - cyclist or internet poster.
Your reaction appears to be somewhat defensice - I hope you don't ever make your way to west Clare on your bike.
I don't believe any diver would deliberately run down a cyclist any more than I believe a cyclist would deliberately run down a pedestrian, thoug both regularly happen - usually because of people who believe they own the road - and that can be either.
Do they do sense-of- humour transplants in yor neck of the woods?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 02:05 PM

Not defensive at all, at least in the sense Jim Carroll means it. Certainly defensive in that I have no desire to be killed by a moron who thinks it's funny to drive dangerously close to cyclists or to pretend that it's funny to joke about running them down.

Since you're in Ireland, Jim Carroll, you can listen to George Hook and Pat Kenny foaming at the mouth about cyclists in terms that bring to mind Radio-Television Libre des Mille Collines. Nasty stuff.

I had intended to bring my bike to visit a friend who lives in the Burren, but I'll take your warning and skip the visit, which would have meant spending some money locally, and will warn all my high-spending cyclist buddies to stay clear, and instead cycle the Beara Peninsula, which is said to be beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 02:07 PM

Those who are interested in good infrastructure, health and not killing people on the roads might like this
TED Talk by Janette Sadik-Khan, who brought cycling back to the streets of New York.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 03:10 PM

I like my car because I can carry loads of supermarket shopping, bulky items, plants and compost from the garden centre and all sorts of stuff like that, which would be impossible on a bike.
Also, it must be horrible cycling in the driving sleet, freezing wind and pouring rain. Even the hot weather must be very difficult when you're pedalling hard and sweating!

I'm always very careful of cyclists, and conscious of the fact they may wobble, skid, veer off suddenly or do something unexpected.

I do get cross when a cyclist has no lights at night, and no hi-viz clothes either. A poor man was killed during the night on the by-pass by one of our neighbour's sons in the last village. The chap had no lights, and the motorist felt a massive bump. He was traumatised after the event and felt dreadful, but it wasn't his fault.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 04:47 PM

Senofou, here's my cycle today: went to the local charity shop with a big bag of clothes and a big bag of bags; continued to the bottle bank and dumped jars and bottles; continued to the hardware shop and bought a mop-bucket, two of those plastic bags with vacuum yokeys to compress and put away my winter woollies, a bunch of scourers and a solar lamp; continued to Lidl for steaks and spinach and yogurt and bread (pumpkin seed and crispy white loaf) and croissants and chocolate and can't remember what else, and a nice spinny thing for the garden; at this stage I managed to cram it all in except the spinny windmill thing, so I took that out of the packet and put it together and cycled home with it spinning in the air above me.
There are few things I can't get on the bike. My neighbour and friendly local handyman brought me to Ikea yesterday to get a bookcase with glass doors, which he then put together for me - but at a pinch, Ikea could have had it delivered.
As for bad weather, it feels much worse in a car than it does on a bike. What's a pleasant mizzle, moistening your face and refreshing you, on a bike seems like a downpour in a car. As for hot weather, cycling is refreshing as the air rushes coolingly past.
Sad for the driver who ran into the unlit cyclist - but quite honestly, when I was driving I never drove fast enough that I couldn't see one of these ninjas in time. Of course the cyclist should have had the legally required red light in the back and white in the front, and if she or he was in a country area then a reflective belt might have helped - but a lot is down to drivers. I'll never forget driving through Ranelagh in Dublin with a friend and screaming at him - "Paddy! Look out!" - he was about to go into a cyclist (lit up and hi-vizzed) whom he had simply failed to see.
Part of this is due to an effect of the human eye - here's an interesting (to me, anyway) article by an RAF pilot about it. I'll always be grateful to this writer for introducing me to the wonderful word "saccade".
I'm sorry for leaping down the throat of Jim Carroll; I don't find jokes about people trying to kill me (or rape me either) funny, and have often been accused of a lack of sense of humour by people who do.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 04:51 PM

Further on the garden centre biz: I can carry compost ok; haven't tried to carry sharp sand and I need some. I reckon I can probably carry it half a bag at a time, but then my nearest garden centre is within a kilometre.
I regularly carry slabs of six Saskia water litres from Lidl along with the rest of my shopping. These weigh 9kg, and fit snugly in a Carradice pannier.
(And yes, by the way, mostly in Ireland we're in kilometres, metres, litres and kilos now, apart from the very old. We have de-imperialised.)

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 04:53 PM

who brought cycling back to the streets of New York.

By all means do a web search on this, to examine at length all of the myriad problems that self-entitled, born-again, fundamentalist cyclists have caused - and are causing - and will continue to cause- on the streets of New York.

I've personally dealt with 'em.

Not a pretty picture.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 05:08 PM

Not a pretty picture for people to travel safely under their own power without gobbling up fossil fuel to drag their obese carcases around…? Not to mention having half the chance of developing cancer that the motor-dragged people do!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 06:03 PM

Greg - if those cyclists you condemn exist to the extent you suggest,
then other cyclists like me would probably agree they are complete arseholes,
an embarrassment, a liability to all sensible / reasonable cyclists
who just want to get home after every ride, safe, unhurt, and alive......

Likewise, I'd suggest all motorists aren't necessarily sociopathic potential killers with a vendetta against all other 'inferior' road users...

Hey, I've even seen local horse riders on black horses, dressed in very dark hooded clothes at dusk with no hi viz, reflectors, or torches
on nearby country roads......

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:27 PM

"narrow" roads ?
Rather difficult to define for me round here. (Cheshire)
Some are so narrow that a cyclist would have to pull in to a gateway to let a car past.

Overtaking a short group of cyclists is always going to be easier and safer than overtaking a long stream of them.
I was taught to overtake (anything) using the full width of the road. Two three or four... abreast would be fine to me .... depending on the width of the road.

Even slight inclines mean that a cyclist's speed can vary considerably, faster or slower. In a car it is quite difficult to judge that.

There IS something frustrating about being behind a slower vehicle/bike/sheep and it can be stressful making an overtaking manoeuvre.
Timewise could someone do the maths on how long the delays might actually be when we slow down before overtaking?

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:31 PM