BS: On your bike

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 10:46 PM

@Thompson
? Saskia water ?
> thread.cfm?threadid=112989&messages=93#3851766

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 01:58 AM

Saski water is Lidl's answer to Perrier and Badoit and Pellegrino. It's a very nice sparkling water. I know, I'm ruining the environment and i should be drinking tap water, but… it's a treat. We don't drink wine often - officially once a week, but sometimes twice if I make a risotto and we drink the rest of the bottle of white wine. So we drink Saskia water with dinner, except on the day we have lentil soup, when we drink milk. (Lidl's organic milk, creamy and delcious.)
By the way, here's a link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Ti4qUa-OU since the blickifier isn't working, just copy-and-paste into an address bar) to a talk by a lad in Copenhagen who met an oul'fella who longed to cycle; he (the lad) ended up taking people from a local old people's home on taxi rides, this grew into a movement. It's spread all across Europe now - a bunch of people are doing it in Dublin.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 03:48 AM

Well you must have the strength of an ox Thompson! I couldn't even mount a bicycle, never mind pedal it. My sister does her one hour on her static exercise bike every day, but she's a lot younger than me.

I buy huge compressed bales of garden compost, about the size of a washing machine (They work out much cheaper in bulk). My lovely husband carries them on his head to the boot of his car (much to the amusement of the garden centre staff!) There is no way on this earth that a bale like this could be transported on a bike. It won't even fit into my little Fiesta, which is why my husband brings his bigger car along.

I have to say though in fairness, there are two old ladies in their eighties who live in Fustyweed (a village up the road from ours) who cycle everywhere. They're both slim, strong and cheerful people, and we all think the world of them. But even they get their families to transport their supermarket shopping in their cars.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 03:56 AM

I'm actually not that strong, Senofou, and I'm so old and decrepit that they've given me the bus pass and the pension - which is a lot older in Ireland than in Britain, though our bus pass is superb - free travel on all nationally-run buses and trains, and with a deal with Northern Ireland so you can use it there too - I must go up; have been meaning to cross the Carraig-a-Rede bridge for some time.

You're right, I couldn't carry one of the big blocks of compost, though I'm looking thoughtfully at the Ikea trailer - light and very good, and €160 - which would allow me to do so.

I do occasionally beg a hitch from a friend with a big car and buy a bunch of slabs of water and slabs of tins of tomatoes and baked beans, but less often than at first.

Thing is, when you have the stuff on the bike it's really not heavy; you're pushing rolling weight. I wouldn't cycle to Cork with it, but it's not a big deal to bring it home from the shops a kilometre away.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:08 AM

I've had a bus pass for years, but it's not a lot of use as there are no buses at all coming through our village. We do use the park and ride at the Airport to get into Norwich. I like buses, they are an improvement on everyone individually riding in their car. And people chat on a bus. I like chatting :)

There's a lovely little family up our road who have three young children, all with gorgeous bright red hair. The whole family rides around on their bikes. The littlest one is only three, but she pedals along like a good'un. I just worry about them on our narrow roads. At least Norfolk is relatively flat!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:12 AM

I'm curious Senofou, the name Fustyweed amused me, what a delightful name, so I tried to find it using Google maps. Unfortunately it wasn't found. I know, from Google, it is near Elsing. Any more info you could give.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:14 AM

Here ya go http://www.francisfrith.com/fustyweed - and many more results when I searched for "Fustyweed village England" (without quotes) on Google's normal, not map, search.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:16 AM

Ooooh, it looks nice! http://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/property/elsing/fustyweed/

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:26 AM

It is a funny name isn't it raggytash? And they're always getting their village sign nicked by tourists, as a souvenir. It's now cemented firmly in place!

The name is thought to come from 'fusty' meaning 'evil-smelling'. The hamlet has been there for centuries. It may be that the evil-smelling plant was used for medicinal purposes, but nobody has yet identified it botanically.

One of the two bicycling old ladies is called Dorothy and she comes to our Ladies Group (on her bike of course) She told me that when she has to give her address over the phone for any reason, there's always a pause, then "Er..." !

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:26 AM

By the way, in Britain, according to the NHS, 16% of the national budget is spent on the public health impact of pollution. Direct costs of obesity to the country are £16b a year, and of air pollution more than £20bn. If people got out of their cars just for those journeys under 5km (20 minutes) this would have a huge beneficial effect on the national budget as well as the national health.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 06:58 AM

Map & photos round Fustyweed
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/TG0518

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 07:38 AM

Thanks I eventually found it on Google maps and went into street view, blinked and I missed it !!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 08:34 AM

For the record
If I had to overtake a cyclists coming out of Fustyweed i'd prefer
them single file
group of 4 (?) max
doing 10mph

https://goo.gl/maps/owAq9yJBkjK2

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 08:41 AM

That's the point I was trying to put across.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 12:17 PM

Yeah, roads vary and needs in cycling tactics vary.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 04:48 PM

Here, if there was a car coming the other way I wouldn't try to overtake even one single file cyclist.
Once the oncoming road was clear I'd be over in the right lane so they could be three or even four abreast.

Look
A bunch of 3 x4abreast would be much easier and safer to pass than a bunch of 12 in single file.

Norwich Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/f1okBmUAzUK2 

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:07 AM

Good driver, FreddyHeadey.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:18 AM

It's crazy to ride in mre than single files on country roads
Much better to use your head abe leave enough gaps between riders to overtake in stages.
As far as harangues against cyclists on the Irish media - it really is a two-sided coin
Traffic lights in Dublin may as well not be there for all the notice taken of them by cyclists - a nightmare for pedestrians and drivers alike.
If it continues the way it is heading, the authorities will be forced to set up compulsory traffic awareness courses for all road users and maybe even prevent some from using major roads
It cannot go on the way it is.
Country roads are just common sense and courtesy with not enough cyclists to make it a problem - yet
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:21 AM

Had a go on a trike yesterday .................




............ it did have a 1.8 litre VW engine attached



Sorry Thompson !!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:25 AM

Actually, several studies have shown that cars go through traffic lights far more than cyclists. The reason that this appears not to be so when you're driving is probably that you see cyclists going past and going through. If you're cycling, and you're sitting at the lights as I normally do, you see a tailgating series of cars whizzing through just after the lights turn red. The drivers further back in the queue don't see these - but they're far more dangerous than the cyclists who go through.

One study, which I can direct you to if you'd read it, found that all forms of transport are 'scofflaws', but cyclists less so than others; and when asked why they went through red lights, etc, when they did, drivers answered "to save time", but cyclists answered "it's safer".

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:35 AM

By the way, cycling, unlike driving, makes you not only sexy but
smart!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 06:46 AM

Now here's a group of concepts.
1) if people cycled to work, they would live at least 1/3 of the distance from work, and probably less than that. If that wouldn't reduce traffic levels - you can call me irrational.
2) As with joggers, peoples' immune system would be constantly alert, thus improving health.
3) Never mind bus lanes, footpaths in cities would need widening.
4) the army of idiots that currently terrorise the roads would refuse to buy a bell let alone use it, and expect pedestrians to have eyes in the back of their heads. Try walking the canal towpaths and you will see it.
5) if it is cars that are being targeted, mobility scooters would be more numerous and the idiot army would cry foul if you criticised them for their irresponsibility. "But I'm disabled" is the cry, NO! clue's in the name "mobility" scooter.
6) electric bikes! speeds would rise, laws flouted.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 07:33 AM

Oooh Thompson, that video's the first thing I've seen that perhaps COULD persuade me to get a bike! Increase one's libido and become sexy eh? And lose weight? Hee hee, my husband would be highly delighted!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 08:24 AM

When I was 24 it took only 7 minutes to cycle at top speed from Stokes Croft, where I lived in Bristol, across to the far side of Eastville Stadium,
for regular tuesday evening 'visits' to a girlfriend who needed recreational breaks from studying for her finals...

That was a powerful incentive that kept me slim, fit, and in prime condition..... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 08:40 AM

I was actually at my ultimate fitness and strength when I was 40 -> 50...

Cycling played a very significant part of my daily fitness regime...

Btw.. nearly 3 and a half decades ago, me and that girlfriend could fit quite comfortably and snugly in a single bed...

We kept in touch and are now married...
but now even a king sized double pine bed is straining & creaking under the combined girth & weight of us... 😬

It's probably getting on for 3 years since my arthritic feet and knees have kept me off my bike..

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 09:53 AM

"Actually, several studies have shown that cars go through traffic lights far more than cyclists. "
Possibly because motorists outnumber them 1000 to one
Would need to see percentages to make sense of that one
Did you hear of the couple riding down the road on a tandem when dog ran out and threw a bucket of water over them?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 11:32 AM

My wife often reminds me that years ago in Argentina that cyclists were required to register and display a registration number on their bikes. Possibly one of Poovy Peron's little niceties which seems a good idea - then it's possible to catch these inconsiderate cyclists who ride dangerously!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 11:34 AM

And his whore wife naturalemente!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 12:29 PM

Re the video:
I can see gym cycling and arousal - none of the aggro with car drivers, no rain, no potholes, and you can look at the other person safely. And all that sweat (aka pheromones).

But if pumping legs gets you going, dancing would work, and looking at the opposite sex is obligatory. "Perpendicular expression of horizontal desire" as GBS put it.

Ahem! Despite the amount of dancing I do - well let us just say I need more dancing! Or a younger body.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 12:51 PM

Just out of interest (I'm not an arthritis sufferer, thank goodness) what does frequent biking do for the hip and knee joints? Good things or bad? And one's back seems to be constantly bent forward. Is that a bit painful after a time?

Apart from the Fustyweed ladies, our Churchwarden is quite elderly, and rides his bike all over the place. He told me it keeps his paunch away. He does have a very flat stomach, and is (like the Fustyweed Two) slim as a whippet. It must tone up the body, and improve circulation.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Iains
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 01:53 PM

How times change. Back in the days of the mad handbag Norman Tebbit suggested people got on their bikes and as a result he was castigated and pilloried for daring to suggest such a thing.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 02:14 PM

Errrmmm... there was just the slightest difference in emphasis
behind Nasty Norm's enthusiasm for promoting cycling for the jobless victims of thatcherism... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 02:18 PM

.. and it was around that time I had 2 bikes stolen in one summer...

Maybe Norm was supplying those so desperate enough with chain cutters... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 09:10 PM

Senoufou what does frequent biking do for the hip and knee joints?
Knees
I don't get any arthritis problems. I did have a painful knee once, walking, but I wasn't cycling much. When I did more cycling my knees felt better(I was still walking the same amount, maybe 12miles every couple of Sundays)
But I know other people who complain there knees hurt when they cycle.
I think it depends on the saddle height being set well and good pedalling technique and use of gears.

Hips... idk.

Bottom .... you didn't ask but it can certainly be an issue.
The fitter you get the more pressure you put on the pedals and the less pressure you put on your btm.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 12:29 AM

All Mr Red's "ifs" can be answered by looking at the countries and cities where cycling has increasingly replaced driving: Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Groeningen, Oslo, etc. Frogs have not rained down on the populace.

Bonzo3legs, registration plates are already installed on cars; I don't see them being used for catching many of the lights-breakers or mobile-phone-users. (In Ireland, phone using in cars is endemic, and very, very dangerous.) A few countries have tried registration plates, but all have abandoned it as a resource-gobbler (vast armies of civil servants to administer it) and useless.

I'm with you on the bells, Mr Red - I have a loud bell on my good bike, and a modern bell on my functional bike. (For some reason, it's now impossible to buy a good loud steel bell of the kind you hear on Queen's I Want to Ride My Bicycle any more; the modern ones seem to be made of aluminium and give a faint, unsatisfying, buzzy ring once attached to handlebars, though they sound satisfyingly loud in the shop. I bought myself an old one, and it's loud, but it's more of a "Ting-Ting" than a "Brring-Brring", which is what I thought I was buying.

Senofou, in relation to knees, ask your doctor. I would have thought that cycling would be much easier on the knees than any other exercises; however, I have a friend (in his forties but weighty) who has been told that he shouldn't cycle because his knees are crocked. But this may be the specific form of knee problem he has, which I think is due to some horrible disease that rots his cartilage. By the way, the three-cornered way your weight is distributed makes it relatively light on bottom, feet and wrists - though a long cycle (100km+) can be wearing on the wrists.

Punkfolkrocker - mooching around online I see some references to recumbent or semi-recumbent (I'd prefer the semi - you sit up, but your legs are straight out rather than down) and arthritis. Again, I'd ask the doc. Semi-recumbents use your back muscles more than your stomach muscles, I vaguely remember.
Here's a video of someone trying one for the first time. (My blood chills at the thought of arthritis stopping one cycling; my thumb has just started to do a nasty getting-stuck thing, solved by giving the joint a jerk to the left with the other hand, and when I crouch I sound like someone scrunching up bubble-wrap.)

Cyclists and drivers and red lights: this RSA (Ireland's Road Safety Authority, not the most cyclist-friendly group!) study of 60 junctions found that just 1 in 8 cyclists went through red lights; it also found that nearly 1 in 10 cars had defective lights, 1 in 7 drivers misused fog lights - and 1 in 4 semi-articulated lorries did. A Kerry study which I can quote if you want found that 67% of lights-breaking was by cars.

Various cities, including Paris, are making some red lights optional for cyclists. I'm absolutely with you on the burly youths who hurtle through lights because "Me! I'm more important! I can go!" - but there are many non-sociopath riders who will go through red lights cautiously if it is safe to do so; the same with one-way streets - a lot of cities allow cyclists to go contraflow down one-ways when it's safe.

For a little entertainment - a TED talk by an Israeli IT student who takes kids from a reformatory out mountain biking.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 02:02 AM

Any cyclist knows this, non-cycling motorists choose to ignore it, but cyclists correct balance by deflecting forward momentum. The faster you go, the smaller the deflections need to be. The slower you go, the larger the deflections. The larger the wobbles from side to side. You rarely go slower than when you start up. If you start up at some traffic lights at the same time as a car that is six to twelve inches away from you, you are in extreme danger. If you wait until all the stopped cars have gone you may never get to start. Far better to get as far in front of the line of stopped cars as possible and wait there for the lights to change. Then, when the lights do change you have got your big wobbles over before the rest of the traffic comes past. Also in that position there can be no excuse for other road users not seeing you. It's so much safer.

In that forward position it may also be possible to see if any traffic is coming from either side. If there is no such traffic, and there are no pedestrians either, getting across quickly is often the best bet. Yes motorists resent cyclists not waiting but they should console themselves knowing that they are sitting comfortably, listening to the Archers and out of the rain and snow. They could be cycling if they wanted to.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 02:58 AM

"They could be cycling if they wanted to."
Spoken like a true young townie
Not when you live twenty miles from the nearest town and you are getting on in years you can't, and unfortunately bad driving/cycling is endemic
The problem with these discussions is that they invariably polarise into interest groups, each one blaming the other, when in fact the blame lies equally on both sides
Motorists have always been thoughtless as far as cyclists are concerned, mainly in misjudging distances and possible speeds and failing to use the mirror when turning left (in Britain)
Groups of cyclists who like to chat to their mates when cycling along are becoming more and more deadly on winding country roads - especially when they travel in packs.
My regular visits have made me more and more aware of the growing tendency towards aggressive selfishness of wannabe road-owners who disregard so many rules in order to 'shorten the road' (a Traveller saying),
I cycled half my life for both work and pleasure, mainly in the town; now I drive out of necessity in a rural area and avoid doing so in the cities like the plague.
Awareness of your own safety and that of others is the issue when getting from A to B
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 03:20 AM

The problem with these discussions is that they invariably polarise into interest groups, each one blaming the other, when in fact the blame lies equally on both sides

Perhaps, but drivers' bad judgment is very dangerous for cyclists, whereas a cyclist being an eejit is just annoying. It's like Bion of Borysthenes's saying "Though boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport but in earnest."

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 04:11 AM

"They could be cycling if they wanted to."

Not when you are disabled, not when you live 10 minutes drive up hill from Croydon for 5 miles to start of North Downs - strange that you have to go up to get to a "Down"!!!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 04:26 AM

"whereas a cyclist being an eejit is just annoying."
Thanks for making my poin perfectly T
Some cyclists, (no names) appear to be completely impervious to the danger their stupid behaviour can cause
If I swerve to avoid an idiot cyclist pulling out in front of me and injure somebody else in doing so do I have to arm wrestle somebody to decide who was to blame
Driving, particularly in urban areas, is a communal activity, even pedestrians need to be aware of that fact - go solo and you're a mnace 0- even if you're only pushing a "harmless" pram
Someone crossing the road stupidly is as potentially lethal as the driver of an artic.
Sorry - I been cycling regularly since tramlines were the main hazard on the roads.
Don't try and bluff a bluffer
Jim Carrolll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 08:20 AM

Thank you for the replies about knees and hip joints. I must say the Fustyweed Two (in their late eighties) have excellent posture and walk well. Our Churchwarden goes for long walks as well as bike rides (walking about 15 miles across fields is nothing to him) They're all excellent advertisements for cycling as beneficial to health.

There's a small riding stable in our village, and as a rider of many years (before I got old, decrepit and a bit fat) I sometimes think I'd like to take it up again. They have a sturdy cob which might not object to having me on board!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 09:13 AM

Nothing said yet about the danger that inconsiderate bike riders pose to pedestrians on shared paths - I get the impression that (a) none of them have a bell or one of those trendy electronic beepers or (b) that they don't know how to use it.

... and don't start me on cyclists without operational head and tail lights.

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 09:39 AM

I'm really not sure about bells.
On cars you are only supposed to use the horn in emergencies.

If I'm walking on a shared path I appreciate a subtle dingding from twenty-five yards away but I don't want a clang clang from two yards behind me. They can slow down to my pace and ask politely if they may pass.

I know that as a youth I felt pretty nimble on a bike and felt quite capable of weaving round slow moving pedestrians. But I didn't realise how intimidating it can feel to a pedestrian. I never hit anyone but that doesn't prove that it was OK.
Same in traffic, commuting through London was quite fun. Now, driving more, the odd cyclist nipping past in slow traffic is a bit of a shock ... but afterwards I feel envious :-(

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 09:39 AM

Has anybody encountered this weird phenomenon of cyclists using mobile phones yet?
Last time I witnessed it was by a cyclist riding up the centre of the pavement on Dublin's extremely busy O'Connell Street.
And I still have pangs of guilt over taking my girlfriend for a ride on my crossbar
The innocence of youth eh!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 09:45 AM

I'm a motorist, a cyclist and a pedestrian (less of a cyclist these days for various reasons) and don't support any particular camp. But I will share one interesting experience that occurred some years ago, on a path that runs along the Sussex coast from Shoreham Beach to Lancing. You can see the stretch of coast on this Google map, to the south of the Widewater Lagoon:

Shoreham Beach

The path is shared by walkers and cyclists. Just by the Lancing Sailing Club the path narrows, with railings on either side, and notices at both ends of the railings which say, in large letters: "CYCLISTS, PLEASE DISMOUNT."

Having got thoroughly fed up one day with being bulldozed out of the way, I stopped and stood by the beginning of the railings and counted the cyclists up to a 100 - noting how many dismounted and walked through.

The number of those who dismounted? None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. 0%.

Out of curiosity I waved one down and asked him politely why, having obviously seen the sign, he refused to obey it. He mumbled something about it not mattering. When asked why, he just started pedalling onwards.

Fun, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 10:04 AM

"Has anybody encountered this weird phenomenon of cyclists using mobile phones yet?"

frequently, and have sent video to local safer neighbourhood team (police),as I have of cyclists/moped riders doing wheelies !!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 10:07 AM

Here's an obvious thought to start the day.."most people these days are inconsiderate arseholes..."

Of course.. I'm a rare decent reasonable bloke...
and so are all you mudcatters...

As a cyclist.. I consider too many other cyclists to be complete knobheads..
..and too many motorists are arrogant bell ends out there potentially to maim and kill us...

Thankfully I and, other mudcatters, believe in patience, respect and tolerance for other road users.... 😇

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 10:47 AM

Someone crossing the road stupidly is as potentially lethal as the driver of an artic.

Jesus, don't tell Daesh!

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 01:45 PM

I frequently see pedestrians plugged into a squawk box while walking along narrow rural roads. Some cyclists also indulge in the same habit.
Do they not deserve to be taken out of their stupidity by a driver?
Surely it is not unreasonable to expect all road users to be alert to other traffic and act accordingly?

Subject: RE: BS: On your bike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 02:16 PM

100!