BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?

Subject: Theresa May on fox hunting
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:11 PM

So, if Theresa May were re-elected, she would put fox-hunting on the ballot, even though it is banned?

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:15 PM

Parliament can change any of the laws set by previous Parliaments. So there is no technical reason why not.

That is not to say I think it sensible, desirable or a good use of Parliaments time.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:13 AM

If you saw lambs ripped apart by foxes you would not care what method is used to keep fox numbers under control, even the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:21 AM

So, if Theresa May were re-elected, she would put fox-hunting on the ballot, even though it is banned?
Just as labour put it to the ballot to get it banned even though it was legal!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: gillymor
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:54 AM

Civilization marches on...backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:04 AM

Well Iains, I know what rips lambs apart near where we live, and it isn't foxes, it is uncontrolled or inadequately controlled dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:06 AM

"If you saw lambs ripped apart by foxes you would not care what method is used to keep fox numbers under control"

So you realise that's not the fault of the indigenous wildlife, right?

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:26 AM

I understand fully the problems with foxes. Here in Norfolk, the poultry farmers of free-range stock are often troubled by them.
But there are other, more humane ways of controlling the fox population than hunting with hounds.
I've always thought that the goal of the Fox Hunts isn't the control of foxes at all, but to have a jolly good day out in the winter months, giving one's prize hunter some exercise and to hobnob with like-minded folk. It's more a social event than a vermin-control sortie.
And it's unspeakably cruel.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:30 AM

David Carter you may know what happens in your neck of the woods. I know what happens in mine. It ain't dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:42 AM

"And it's unspeakably cruel."
Be fair Sen - it might be Theresa May's solution for solving unemployment and the hospital crisis.
Put the sick and idle to work providing their betters with a little entertainment!!
Otherwise - you are quite right - killing for pleasure can never be jusified.
As a young apprentice, I was taken by a tradesman to see a coursing match at Waterloo (Merseyside)
I witnessed 'a string' - two dogs fighting over a live hare intul they had torn in in half, while the crowd stood around betting on which dog would end up with the head end.
I don't know which was more upsetting to experience - the two dogs doing what came naturally to them or the howls of the punters
I've never lost the sound of the tortured animal's shrieks
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:09 AM

Ugh Jim, how barbaric.
I must add, I'm not a squeamish person. One of my colleagues, when I was teaching, went shooting every weekend, and on Mondays handed me his game bag with some goodies in. (His wife had no more room in the freezer!) It was free as long as I was prepared to pluck, skin and gut the game.
These were pigeons and rabbits, which my colleague's father had problems with on his arable farm, shot cleanly and instantly.
I knew how to deal with them (my mother had taught me) so I skinned the rabbits, plucked the pigeons then jointed and casseroled them.
Our cats enjoyed crunching the bits, and the casseroles were delicious.
Not one of the other members of staff (twenty or so) could face doing this, but as I said, I didn't mind at all.
But if the poor creatures had been tortured in any way, I'd have had no part in it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 17 - 09:24 AM

If you saw lambs ripped apart by foxes

Then there's foxes ripped apart by dogs...... but tht's OK ain't it Iains?

About that degree in Engineering?

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: gillymor
Date: 23 May 17 - 09:34 AM

There's got be a far more humane and efficient way of dealing with foxes than chasing down a single fox with a bunch of horses and a pack of dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:09 AM

Greg F. Then there's foxes ripped apart by dogs...... but tht's OK ain't it Iains? Yup. tht's perfectly ok

I do not have a problem with foxes torn apart by dogs, they are not part of my food chain, although there are probably more efficient ways of culling, as has already been stated.
Why the fixation on engineering? You must think it adds a certain je ne sais quoi to a post.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:48 AM

I do not have a problem with foxes torn apart by dogs

So you're one of those "there are good animals(domestic) and there are bad animals(wild)" throwbacks to the 19th Century? Also, you might add dogs to your food chain; many cultures find them delicious.

RE:possible Engineering degree, just a point of interest;you seem to exhibit the symptoms many enginners present from the disease they acquire through their intensive arrogance and infallibility training.

There's got be a far more humane and efficient ways of dealing with foxes

There assuredly are, but what fun would they be?? Studies also demonstrate that fox hunting with hounds does jack squat to control the fox population.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 11:09 AM

Greg F "So you're one of those "there are good animals(domestic) and there are bad animals(wild)" throwbacks to the 19th Century?"

How quaint! Certain domestic annimals are raised to become part of the food chain. Annimals that act to destroy them such as foxes are generally culled whenever possible. Simple economics. Do you plant corn in order to burn it prior to harvest?
What a unique mindset you have. I trust it is nothing catching.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:00 PM

Foxes torn apart by dogs (with which Iains has 'no problem') is wicked, cruel and unnecessary. There are other ways of controlling vermin.

I wonder if people like Iains have any imagination at all. The fox is absolutely terrified, runs until it can run no more, gasping for breath (for hours sometimes) and then faces the teeth of an entire pack of dogs. No living creature of any species deserves this.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with 'culling'. It's the manner in which it's carried out that disgusts.

And a bunch of horse-riders chasing one single fox can (as said by Greg and gillymor) hardly do much to address the situation.
They're doing it for 'fun', let's be honest, not vermin control.

And before anyone says I know nothing about it, I was a good rider many years ago, and took part in drag hunts (no live prey, just a scent trail) It is exhilarating and I quite understand that part.

Fox-hunting is on a level with bear-baiting, cock-fighting and hare-coursing.
One hopes we have progressed a bit from those barbaric days.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:34 PM

" I trust it is nothing catching."

THere'll be nothing to catch one the dickhead farmers* have extirpated all the wildlife on these islands. The so-called guardians of the land aren't as wise in the ways of the natural world as they like to think they are. IF they had a clue about ecology, they'd never act the way most of them do.** Fox hunting is just a pleasure for those who get their yah-yah's by watching cruelty and suffering. Twats.



*Grousehooters and gamekeepers, industrial trawlers, badger baiters, scallop dredgers, drift netters, cock fighters, dog fighters, donkey shaggers etc etc


**Notice I said most. There are some farmers who DO understand that modern farming practices are trashing the natural diversity and abundance of our Isles. However, most seem to be riding high on the tractor of subsidy whilst drenching the land in nitrates and injecting our meat with all sorts of crap whilst killing as much wildlife as they can. See also: Bees, hares, lapwings, wildflower meadows, ANY bird of prey, birds in general, ancient hedgerows, archaeological remains ("plough those barrows boys!"), dormice, bats, ancient woodland, overgrazed uplands, etc etc

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:53 PM

You're right Stu, and it's a very gloomy picture of financial gain at the expense of natural diversity of species.
Our Norfolk Wildlife Trust strives to educate and intervene wherever possible. Some farmers do, as you say, understand the precariousness of our wildlife. But most are in it for profit and nothing else.

However, when a livestock farmer finds his lambs massacred or his chickens slaughtered, his dairy cows failing their TB tests due (perhaps) to badgers transferring the disease, his crops gobbled up by crows and so on, he/she must feel beleaguered.

I have no answers to all that. But if some wildlife has to be controlled, let it be done humanely.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:25 PM

Stu, I think you will find that EU subsidies put quite severe constraints on what farmers can and cannot do with their land.Many of the practises you accuse farmers of are illegal in any EU juristriction, and increasingly non standard agricultural practises are becoming subject to planning permission. Bats are a protected species as are many other species of wildlife. Overgrazed uplands are a matter of opinion. In Ireland the opposite has become the case on many commonages. As the vegetation ages it's nutritional value and palatability diminishes and thus diminishes the value of the grazing.In reality the vegetational types on the uplands are a result of anthropogenic influences rather than a natural plant progression. I do not agree with many farming practisies especially arable, but unfortunately we have developed a system requiring high mechanisation with high inputs for high outputs. Thus is the way to cheap food. It is a rare person can act on the moral high ground and accept the consequent massacre of income. To change the present system will take far far more than just vilifying farmers.

On a happier note I refer you to the Irish GLAS scheme
There are many positives as well.
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/glas/

and the Hen Harrier habitat mapping:
https://www.npws.ie/news/hen-harrier-spa-habitat-map-viewer-published

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:32 PM

you see a lot of foxes coming home after a gig. the most i ever used to see was on that road out of Manchester through Stockport, going from pizza house, halal kfc's, fish and chip shops......

of course you couldn't take the hunt though the back streets of Stockport

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:58 PM

I wonder if people like Iains have any imagination at all.

Whilst I wonder if people like Iains -e.g. "facts are irrelevant" - have any intelligence at all, based on what he/she has posted here.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:15 PM

In our last village, there was a beautiful bright orange fox who would stroll past our patio doors mid-morning (he obviously wasn't nocturnal!) nearly every day, gaze into our sitting room and stroll off again. (Our large garden was surrounded by fields, with no fences) He truly was magnificent, and very big.
I grew to love the sight of him, and the thought of his being torn to pieces in terror and agony breaks my heart.

There are also 'urban foxes' nearer to Norwich (I've seen them often in Catton for example) rooting through bins and hunting rats etc. They have young cubs trotting beside them at this time of year. And they get killed on the roads. But I presume it's instantaneous.

I wouldn't say I was overly sentimental, but wildlife has always been a great joy to me. It costs nothing to be humane and compassionate.

(Except big hairy spiders...!)

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:19 PM

And earwigs!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:20 PM

I know quite a lot about foxes, living in a remote area.
The farmers which used to keep sheep were always troubled by them, the farming community employed a gamekeeper who used every trick in the book to eradicate them.

Foxes are not nice animals, they are one of the few wild animals who kill and mutilate their victims for fun.
When they break into a poultry coupe, they will kill everything in it perhaps carrying away only one carcase.

I remember as a child going into our henhouse to be met with what looked like as scene from a horror movie decapitated carcases litters the floor legs ripped off, heads scattered everywhere and not one body had been removed.

Shed no tears for Mr Fox.......remember the "sly bold Reynardine."

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:33 PM

I know akenaton, I know this happens. But a fox is an animal not a terrorist. It operates by instinct not malice aforethought.
I agree they need controlling. But NOT with cruelty or for sport.
A fox being quickly shot is not so heartbreaking as a fox being hunted, terrified and ripped to bits.

I get very cross when seagulls poo on my washing. But I don't want to torture them to death. It's paranoid to imagine they're plotting to ruin as much of my husband's underwear as possible.
There are ways round all these annoyances.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:38 PM

Iains: We need to change how we grow our food if we are to retain any wildlife diversity, including foxes, badgers and birds of prey. The village where I live is surrounded by arable land, including a large field at the end of the garden. This field is a biodiversity desert; it's farmed for sileage and contains pretty much one type of grass and nothing else. This provides cover for the odd pheasant but even the rabbits don't visit much. Our neighbours have been here for over 50 years and they remember a far more vibrant ecosystem being present, with hares boxing in the field. We've never seen a hare here in the decade we've lived in the house, the badgers in the sett opposite mysteriously disappeared and the setts filled in... hmmm.

"his dairy cows failing their TB tests due (perhaps) to badgers transferring the disease"

Vaccination and controls over movement would go a long way to sorting this (including vaccinating the badgers), and unless you're going to kill EVERY badger in the country then this is the only way forward.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:47 PM

Hmmm....quite often they are not "quickly" shot, they are wounded and die a slow painful death from starvation......or are poisoned, it is still used tho' nominally illegal.

I don't think the anti foxhunting lobby really care about animal cruelty and really want to abolish things which don't fit in with a "rights on" ideology. At the moment they are hunting greyhound racing although it is about the best regulated sports in existence.
If they really cared they would be campaigning against factory farming of animals.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:17 PM

Greyhound racing in UK is not well-regulated. There is much abuse, and the dogs are treated as a commodity not living animals. We have several charities in Norfolk dedicated to intervention and rescue. Many injured dogs aren't treated by vets as they should be, and others are kept for long periods isolated in cages between races. Their lives are not happy.
I donate when I can to these charities.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:53 PM

You tell 'em Eliza!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:01 PM

Greg F

"I wonder if people like Iains have any imagination at all."

Any fool can hurl insults but unlike you I can construct a sentence and present an argument. The bulk of your posts do not contain sufficient words to make either a sentence, or any kind of sense. Pray continue the gibbering.

Ake. As you say anyone out shooting a fox with a rifle or shotgun cannot guarantee a killing shot. A quick death from hounds upsets certain sensibilities but a lingering death from infected wounds is apparently OK. No method of culling can be guaranteed humane, hell we cannot even guarantee humane slaughter in an abbatoir. (let alone the non stunning of cattle prior to halal slaughter)

Stu: I cannot dispute what you state. Factory farming of both crops and annimals inevitably restricts biodiversity. But factory farming maximises food production. How to break out of this vicious cycle is going to be quite an accomplishment and I have no idea how it can be achieved. We may have clever scientists that can boost yields, but these same scientists gave us DDT, thalidomide and nuclear bombs. The march of human progress is littered with dead ends and minefields. And by the way movement controls have been in force for decades, although becoming increasingly stringent. I had my first movement book in 1980.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:08 PM

So no problem with foxes being torn apart by dogs, because they aren't part of your food chain, iains. So the probllem is that the lambs killed by the foxes aren't available for you to est yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:14 PM

McGrath of Harlow
OR YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:21 PM

Sorry Sen your post on greyhound racing is full of fallacies perpetuated by people with no knowledge of greyhound regulation.
As the only licence holder here I can assure you that abuse is extremely rare. Doges are in track kennels once per week at most for up to three hours.....the track kennels are well heated and lit.
As far as regulation goes greyhounds are the best protected and regulated of all animals. When my dogs finish racing I have to either keep them as pets, pay to have them rehomed with a registered homing agency, or re-home them myself.
If I choose the latter option, I have to provide the name and address of the new owner to the Greyhound Racing Board of Great Britain, the board then sends out inspectors to examine the new home to make sure it is suitable and follow up with other visits to ensure that the dog is being well looked after.
It is in the interests of all trainer to make sure the dogs are in good condition....the typical feeding regime of these dogs is much superior to that of many humans, as are their living conditions which are inspected regularly.

I wish people like you would take the time to visit a racing kennel(they have regular open days) before knocking a great and historic sport.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:50 PM

Then why is there a Greyhound Rescue branch in nearly every county in England?
I'm not saying you personally are a cruel dog owner, but there are many whose greyhounds are not well treated, and have to be homed by these charities.
Believe me, I've seen the most distressing photos of some of these animals, pitifully thin, suffering from old injuries, only able to walk slowly. I know several members of the Norfolk Greyhound Rescue, and I don't imagine they make all this up!

'People like you...' ? There's only one of me akenaton. I'm not at the head of an entire army of Senoufous!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:32 PM

We've got one of the relatively few dog racing stadiums in Souther England here in Harlow. One result is that there are lots of retired greyhounds around the place as family pets.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:35 PM

what exactly is the point of fox hunting?
Like I said, if you wanted to kill foxes you would be better off charging round the back street of Stockport, Nottingham and Leicester.

of course they do call it a 'rural pursuit'. i can't help thinking you would catch more with nets and snares and skilled shooters. i think its bullshit about wounding them. obviously - you're not using the right kind of gun. bullets exist that could vaporise the little bastards.

Since the ban have farmers been more bothered with foxes?   if so - get it done properly by exterminators who know what they're doing.

are you sure there are no environmental consequences of getting shut of them?

lets face it the upper classes are a drain on all of us. they sit on all the country's wealth - invest it in banks that invest it abroad. the hunting ban is a chance to give them a smack in the gob. i like seeing foxes, but if they are a real nuisance - lets do it efficiently, not leave it to those idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:36 PM

You're right there iains, I eat lamb, and I don't eat foxes. But I don't see that as reason to shrug off what happens when my fellow lamb-eaters get hunted to death.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:56 PM

Well as a country dweller these past thirty years I can tell you that illegal foxhunting still goes on apace. You don't have to believe me, of course. The bloody thing is well nigh impossible to police and the hunters know it. When the ban was threatened, a big part of the hunting lobby's case was that they were preserving valuable fox habitat that had a really good knock-on effect on other wildlife. What they were saying, of course, was that they weren't interested in wiping out foxes at all. They wanted their bloodsport and they would maintain habitat in order to keep it going. How nice of them!

Hunting is a pastime for brainless twats who would kill anything that moves. The farmers round here train their kids to shoot at crows just for target practice. They have time to kill because their fields are full of low-maintenance elephant grass that has everything to do with making a profit without work and nothing to do with producing food.

But I wouldn't ban hunting or bullfighting or any other allegedly cruel sport. Good argument and ridicule are the way to go and our politicians have more urgent stuff to deal with. It's amazing how some people get all hoity-toity abut foxhunting yet they think nothing of buying cheap barn eggs or a chicken that was raised in a dark barn all its life with 50000 other birds.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 17 - 05:14 AM

Some of the farmers. And no, I haven't been got at! Got to be fair.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 May 17 - 08:15 AM

From: Big Al Whittle - PM
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:35 PM
lets face it the upper classes are a drain on all of us. they sit on all the country's wealth - invest it in banks that invest it abroad. the hunting ban is a chance to give them a smack in the gob.

During the previous hunting debate the hunters said it was just people taking their opportunity to have a go at the well-off.

It seems that they were right.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 17 - 08:35 AM

i'm not sure its the well off - just the upper classes and those that suck up to them.

fair game, i'd say! tally ho!

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 17 - 08:47 AM

Many years ago I used to follow a certain hunt. I recall the Huntmaster at that time was a plasterer by trade. I had no idea plasterers were apparently so well remunerated. The remainder of the hunt comprised a liquorice all-sorts of trades and professions.

Big AL
" i think its bullshit about wounding them. obviously - you're not using the right kind of gun. bullets exist that could vaporise the little bastards."

Utter garbage. A shotgun is by far the safer weapon to use, as the killing range is very restricted. Using a rifle(assuming you can obtain a license) poses a potential danger to anyone within range 1.e.around 1500yards aimed out to 5 miles+ as a random shot.(using a 0.303 as an example) How many hunters get shot in America each hunting season? with a fraction of the population density of the UK. Better a half dead fox than a dead human being.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:08 AM

Foxes are not nice animals, they are one of the few wild animals who kill and mutilate their victims for fun.
When they break into a poultry coupe, they will kill everything in it perhaps carrying away only one carcase.

Myth. From The Fox website

Why do foxes kill for pleasure?

They don't. However, when the opportunity arises, foxes kill surplus prey even if they are not hungry and cache (bury) it for later use. This is a very sensible strategy in the wild, since there are likely to be some days when hunting is a lot less successful, and so the fox can eat the prey killed earlier. However, in an unnatural situation such as in a hen house, where the prey cannot escape, this behaviour, called "surplus killing", leads to the fox killing far more prey than it could ever consume.

Lots more very useful information and myth dispellation on that site too including

Overall, lamb losses to foxes are very low, and fox predation is much less important than other causes of lamb mortality. Higher than average levels of lamb mortality are associated with poor standards of husbandry, and so the most cost effective way to reduce lamb losses is better husbandry.

I suggest that everyone should avail themselves of this free resource from the Mammal Group of the University of Bristol.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:26 AM

"Overall, lamb losses to foxes are very low, and fox predation is much less important than other causes of lamb mortality. Higher than average levels of lamb mortality are associated with poor standards of husbandry, and so the most cost effective way to reduce lamb losses is better husbandry."

A very sweeping assertion, no evidence provided to back it up.
Lamb mortality can be from many varied causes. The cause under discussion is foxes and as you state they kill surplus prey. The other causes are hardly relevant to this particular discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:37 AM

A very sweeping assertion, no evidence provided to back it up.

The statement was from the University of Bristol Mammmals group and while I have no confirmation that they have evidence I have every reason to believe that such a group would not make a such a statement with no evidence. It is a question of who do we believe, A university research group or a bloke on the Mudcat. I know where my money is.

Have you actually been on the site? You may find it interesting. I first found it when we moved to the Yorkshire dales. In the middle of sheep country, With no apparent issues with foxes...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:44 AM

Don't try to confuse Iains with facts, Dave. Thus I won't bother to correct the nonsense he's posted about ballistics and U.S. hunters.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:44 AM

Forgot to add this from the same site

Has the hunting ban had an impact on fox numbers?

No: Lord Burns' inquiry into hunting with dogs in England and Wales concluded that "hunting by registered packs makes only a minor contribution to the management of the fox population". A study on the impact of the hunting ban during the 2001 foot-and-mouth epidemic showed that there was no change in fox numbers even though hunting was stopped for nearly a year. A study in upland areas of Wales during the winter of 2003/2004 showed that hunting by gun packs did not reduce fox numbers. In fact the trend was for fox numbers to go up slightly because more foxes than were killed moved in to fill the empty territories. So it is hardly surprising that the ban on hunting, which came into effect on 18 February 2005, has had no effect.

But, if a University research unit cannot be believed I suppose we have to rely on the Daily Mail, Mudcat and that bloke in the pub who knows everything...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:53 AM

"The Fox website".......well, they WOULD say that....wouldn't they?

I can just see them, the sly bastards, sitting in a circle and making up shit to spin for the resident Gnome. Wagging their bushy tails with evil mirth.

Subject: RE: BS: 'free vote' about fox hunting?
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 May 17 - 12:16 PM

Funnily enough, my farmer grandfather's opinion about foxes and chickens was that keeping the chickens safe was a matter of good husbandry. Same idea as Bristol.