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BS: Facebook, Again.
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Subject: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 24 May 17 - 12:53 PM As if anyone needed another reason to loathe Farcebook: How Facebook flouts Holocaust denial laws except where it fears being sued Leaked guidelines for moderators also reveal refugees are not protected by hate speech rules because they are a 'hot topic'. The company will only consider blocking or hiding Holocaust denial messages and photographs if "we face the risk of getting blocked in a country or a legal risk". https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/may/24/how-facebook-flouts-holocaust-denial-laws-except-where-it-fears-being-sued |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Charmion Date: 24 May 17 - 05:20 PM Greg, has it occurred to you how difficult it would be to police all Facebook posts for Holocaust-denial content? Is it even feasible? Also, many countries where Facebook operates have free speech laws that prevent Internet publishers -- Facebook is a publisher, in case you didn't know -- from unilaterally removing content posted by users. The company is relying on people who care to identify the noxious content and complain in terms that justify removing it. Not that I carry any water for Facebook, but you really should think these things through before griping. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 24 May 17 - 06:08 PM Sure is difficult to police, Charm, if your directives tell your employees NOT to police. You really should think these things thru, you know. And its long past time that obnoxious lying idiots stop using "free speech" as an excuse for being obnoxious lying idiots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 24 May 17 - 06:38 PM Facebook is not a public service it's a business and as such can make whatever rules and directives about content it pleases. As always it's caveat emptor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 24 May 17 - 06:38 PM Greg, it's not Facebook, it's the Internet. You should probably just get the fuck off of it. (It would improve my day not to have to listen to you bitch about what people I don't control are doing on it. YOU fix it, or stop whining. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 24 May 17 - 06:40 PM Rather like FuxNews, eh Bobad - in the business of disseminating hate and bullshit for profit. Idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 24 May 17 - 08:29 PM Old man yells at cloud. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Amos Date: 24 May 17 - 08:52 PM Greg: Can you articulate exactly what you think FB should be doing about the kinds of speech which you despise? I mean, I despise them too, you understand; but I am not sure how FB is supposed to control them, and who should define what sorts of things (other than the ones you put on the list yourself) should be added to the list of forbidden statements. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 24 May 17 - 09:28 PM No, Amos - I could buit I won't as several posts of mine on this thread have already been disappeared, There's no point. What Farcebook should NOT be doing is directing their employees to look the other way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Donuel Date: 25 May 17 - 12:16 AM Before there was Facebook there was the chalk board in every bar in America. Sometimes the chalkboard just had a menu but sometimes it contained great wisdom like, DUE TO VIOLENCE - SHIT FACED MONDAYS WILL BE CANCELED. Face book is just a digital chalkboard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 May 17 - 12:18 AM Nothing disappeared from this thread, Greg. They evidently didn't "take" when you submitted the messages. Facebook has supposedly hired 300 more people to try to police this stuff - but considering the amount of nonsense out there, you probably should download the "Facebook Purity" app and add keywords you want to block. On facebook you can't talk about the app, only refer to it as "Fluffbuster Purity." Go figure. There has been a problem with a fake Chrome app by the same name, so best to download it from the site https://www.facebook.com/fluffbustingpurity/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Joe Offer Date: 25 May 17 - 02:43 AM Goes to show ya, the conspiracy theorists are not only on the right wing.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Senoufou Date: 25 May 17 - 03:53 AM I'm not on Facebook (I only go on lovely Mudcat) but several of my friends are. From what I hear, it's a minefield of personal details of one's life being broadcast to friends and friends-of-friends, and eventually perfect strangers. It seems to engender an enormous amount of distress and anger. Even my sister (who should know better) finds it a Bit Much at times, but nonetheless keeps at it, 'de-friending' and 'friending', tub-thumping about SNP antics and so on. As far as I can see, it facilitates stalking, rumour-mongering, disseminating viciousness and lies, and boasting. ('Here is a photo of the pile of presents we got our little Johnny this Christmas' 'Photo of our brand new Mercedes' etc) Even my husband is on it, and tells me he has about 300 'friends'. Daft banana! The way to avoid being enraged by evil remarks on Facebook is never to venture there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jack Campin Date: 25 May 17 - 05:34 AM Maybe some people leap in without thinking. I'm on it but I have only been building up the repertoire of things I do and features I use very slowly. It's too complicated and unpredictable but some of it works okay. "Holocaust denial" is tricky because the laws about it vary so much between nation states, from positively encouraging it to using it as a pretext for censorship of statements which have nothing to do with the Holocaust. You'd need a comparative law degree just to work out the differences between what was permitted in England and Scotland. And if FB took it on themselves to impose restrictions that ignored the legal systems of countries they operate in, they'd immediately run foul of generic freedom of speech laws. There isn't a simple answer, but they could (a) put more money into dealing with this sort of thing and (b) be more open about what their enforced policies actually are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 17 - 05:50 AM " business and as such can make whatever rules and directives about content it pleases. " All businesses are subject to national laws INTERESTING PIECE OF INFORMATION HERE Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 17 - 05:57 AM "friends and friends-of-friends, " Described, aptly, I think as "imaginary friends" Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Senoufou Date: 25 May 17 - 06:49 AM Exactly Jim. They could be absolutely anybody. I'm a bit worried, because when I type my husband's name on Google, there's a reference to Facebook, and in one click a photo of him appears, complete with the name of our nearest town. I'm totally non-techno savvy, but this seems to me to be rather dodgy. And if one is going to get hot under the collar at some of the content permitted on Facebook, I should think it is as nothing compared to what can be accessed in the fathomless troughs of the Internet in all its glory! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 25 May 17 - 09:16 AM Thank you Jack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Donuel Date: 25 May 17 - 10:18 AM When sanctimonious people are attacked on FB from the left or right it is clear many of them do not take it well, and overstate the case in their own defense just like folks here at BS. Issues spin out of control from the perceived personal offense even if a rational life saving POV is correct and the main point is lost. People who make defense against alt right forces and holocaust deniers are made to sound like what they believe is a bad thing - censorship. The main point is free speech in the world of keeping a critical rational point of view surrounding the subject of holocaust. The issue is global, the squabbles are personal. Does FB employ psychiatrists? Even if they did it wouldn't help because 20% of their members are going to be either sociopaths or psychopaths with near zero conscious empathy. There simply is no legal cure to treat Amygdala disorders at this time. I am not that different from a bigot except I do not identify the Jews or Muslims or Blacks or Mexicans as the 'Bad Hombres' and enemy. I identify the 20% of the successful socio and psychopaths as the enemy but even then they still may serve a purpose in sustaining the species. Cliff note version: Half of half of all people are crazy. What are ya gonna do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 25 May 17 - 10:46 AM I joined Facebook to keep in touch with friends, and it's been good for that. Sometimes, I've corrected people when they parroted right wing views, or passed on fake news, and they've admitted they were wrong if they were. I've reported "fake news" like Facebook wants people to. And I've unfriended people who never, ever shut up, and are just fine taking over somebody else's timeline with their bullshit. Depending on what's circulating that I don't want to read or I'm sick of people posting the same basic stuff, I hide posts. I think that Facebook, with it's sinister algorithms, figures out what I don't want to see more of and shows me less. If you respond to stuff you don't want to see, my guess is you'll see more of it just because you responded. If I want news, I watch, read, or listen to news. Not Facebook. As far as I'm concerned, that's not what Facebook's for. Everything on the Internet tracks you, it's not just Facebook. Google definitely does, and any link you've clicked on records your click and passes it on to who-knows-where. And... Sometimes, it's just a good idea to get the fuck off the internet, but that decision is based on what you feel up to taking. People can't control what's there, just our own reactions. (Or one hopes we can control our own reactions.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Donuel Date: 25 May 17 - 11:20 AM Jeez Jeri by using the 'hide' function I guess you must never have seen anything I have ever written. I second the motion of nourishing non internet realities. I am not even tied to a smart phone addiction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 25 May 17 - 02:11 PM Don, you're not my friend on Facebook, so I can't hide your stuff. I don't use it unless it feels like I'm being fed a steady diet of whatever people are pissed off about. Some is fine, but really, is THAT what they want to give their friends to read? It's like the "OMG - this is the most horrible thing I ever tasted! Here, have some!" Er...thanks? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 17 - 11:16 PM "There isn't a simple answer, but they could (a) put more money into dealing with this sort of thing and (b) be more open about what their enforced policies actually are." but the above might reduce their profit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 May 17 - 08:32 AM "I'm a bit worried, because when I type my husband's name on Google, there's a reference to Facebook" I agree entirely Sen, but I think the problem is far wider than that I booked a flight to Liverpool last week to attend my sister's funeral, along with overnight accommodation at Knock in Mayo and a hotel near to my home town It took a couple of visits to a couple of sites, but since then, I have been inundated with ads for accommodation all over the North of England and travel firms pushing flights from Glasgow to Devon, mostly from firms I have never visited. Spooky or what? Wonder how we'd feel if the 'good old GPO shared our requests with the world Orwell may have been a little premature, but he wasn't far wrong Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 26 May 17 - 08:53 AM Funny I don't get any ads about stuff I search online, maybe that's because I use widely available tools to block that nonsense. "friends and friends-of-friends, " Described, aptly, I think as "imaginary friends" Jim Carroll Just as in real life who you choose to be friends with is entirely up to you. If you wish to have imaginary friends then, by all means, go right ahead, the choice is yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 26 May 17 - 10:28 AM "Friends-of-friends" My stuff doesn't go to them unless I post publicly. But I know many of them. They're just not MY friends. There are some folks who'll accept any friend request, and that's not smart. Seeing as I can't watch what other are doing, my feed's visible only to friends. There's one guy (American) who's been a member of a BNP based group for years, and will not believe that's what it is, because it's ostensibly about "folk" music. He once friended a clone of a mutual friend and told me I was wrong after I said so. You learn who's potentially infections and who's not. I haven't unfriended this guy, but he's on my "restricted" list, meaning my posts don't go to him unless I set them to "public". There's a learning curve. Often, what people complain about is their own lack of knowledge about what they can do. I've figured some of it out, but there's still probably more that I DON'T know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 26 May 17 - 10:49 AM I think those who complain most about Facebook aren't Facebook users and what they know about it is what they've heard from other non users or users who don't have a clue - and there are plenty of those around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 26 May 17 - 11:11 AM I think people don't know how to used something, and blame that something. It's the Internet equivalent of throwing one's golf clubs into the water hazard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: gillymor Date: 26 May 17 - 11:30 AM I used to volunteer with a local internet provider here in SW Florida fixing connectivity problems for customers both on the phone and in person and saw first hand how much FB brightens the lives of elderly people. They get to easily communicate with their children and grandchildren and old friends up north. It greatly alleviates the isolation that many seniors deal with in their declining years. As for the bad stuff I'm aware of it but haven't experienced it as I have an account but hardly ever log in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Senoufou Date: 26 May 17 - 12:11 PM Condolences Jim on the loss of your sister. I worry that my husband doesn't fully understand the implications of giving out information on the Internet. He loves keeping in touch with friends in Africa, but of course, then all these strangers pile in, and he knows nothing about them. It's nice for him to see photos of his real friends though, and to share his. I can fully appreciate what a lifesaver it is for lonely and isolated older folk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 May 17 - 06:34 PM "I joined Facebook to keep in touch with friends, and it's been good for that..." Well there's going down the pub, there's letters, there's the telephone, there's email.... what did we ever do without Facebook! Three years ago I joined it because it was the only way I could see the tributes being paid to a close friend who had died untimely. Getting off it again a couple of weeks later involved my turning into a Houdini. Never again. Were I neurotic I suppose I'd be wondering who might be badmouthing me on Facebook behind my back, but I don't give a shit. A friend of my in-laws who visited recently gleefully told me that she'd posted some photos that had me in them on her Facebook pages. I gave her a right bloody bollocking, much to her surprise. Cheeky sod. How dare she! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 26 May 17 - 07:01 PM It's mostly those who profess extremist views that fear exposure on public forums - and with good reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 May 17 - 07:15 PM Stop being such a bloody childish idiot just for once in your life, and stop stalking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 May 17 - 08:01 PM By the way, you little turd, I always post under my real name and am just about the most trackable person on this board. Whereas you not only post under a false name, you also posted under a second secret identity until you were outed, confirmed by a moderator, so why don't you just sod off with your stupid smears. Sorry, moderators. I have asked you before to do something about him, but, as you haven't, your perfect right of course, excuse me for expressing my anger at this bloody hypocrite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 26 May 17 - 08:52 PM Steve, I found a friend I hadn't seen for thirty-some years on Facebook. We reconnected, and I've been to visit her. I keep up with what she's doing now via Facebook. She lives a few hundred miles away, except for certain times of the year when she lives a couple thousand miles away. Yes, we could phone and write letters, but Facebook is now, and doesn't require much effort. I reconnected with my cousin when she found my Facebook info on a Google search. I'm not going to tolerate name-calling. "He" hasn't posted with a "secret identity" or a "false name". I don't care if you're paranoid, just don't bring that shit in here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 May 17 - 09:32 PM Yes he has. I have a PM from another mod confirming after investigation that he was posting simultaneously under two identities at once. Would you like to see it? He was doing it in order to call Jim and me Jew-haters. You guys need to get your act together. You've just deleted my post telling it like it truly is, yet you allow HIM to call perfectly decent people Jew-haters. What the hell is up with you, Jeri? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 May 17 - 09:35 PM And don't call me paranoid, a medical condition you're not qualified to comment on, and I won't call you a complete arsehole. Agreed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 26 May 17 - 11:04 PM Fine - I can be an arsehole once in a while, and you can behave paranoid. Yes, I'd like to see the PM. You can leave the name of the sender off if you'd like. They were wrong to supply you with what you obviously see as ammunition in your war, and they were just plain wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 07:25 AM There is no war, just a total twat who was calling a couple of us Jew-haters from anonymity as well as still posting as bobad. He still does it today under "bobad" and he's a stalker to boot. You say you don't like name-calling but there are lots of posts still standing with that in them. I'm not sending you someone else's PM without their permission but I'm sending you the mod's name and the time and date of their PM to me. Take it up with them if you can be arsed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 May 17 - 07:48 AM Second that This clown, who refuses to offer discussion of his own and calls all who disagree with him "Jew Haters" has infested this forum for long enough Ban tampered and lively argument we all indulge in is one thing - THis malgnant clown's straitforward trollism based on the antisemitic (by definition) idea that anybody who critisises Israeli policy is a "Jew-hater" really has gone far enough It had no place on a debating forum - it si the behaviour indulged in by vicious schoolchildren Never realised the double-identity bit Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Joe Offer Date: 27 May 17 - 08:01 AM Well, I sure don't know what that Steve Shaw thing is about. Guess it's just as well. I was going to say that I use Facebook mostly for posting photos. I get great new photos of my newborn grandson almost daily, and I get to share photos of my travels. I mostly stay away from the political stuff, and I block sharing from friends who tend to share pro-Trump stuff. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 08:39 AM calls all who disagree with him "Jew Haters" Um no, not those who disagree with me rather those who show themselves to be ant-Semites as defined by their government, their police forces, the political party they support and a majority of the civilized countries of the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 27 May 17 - 09:44 AM Well, I sure don't know what that Steve Shaw thing is about. That's a good part of the problem, Joe. You SHOULD know about it, as should all the mods.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 27 May 17 - 10:06 AM He SHOULD know. And the fact that other mods can't see it may mean that maybe somebody was a little bit wrong about something. PMs sent. We'll get it worked out. In the meantime, please... this thread is for bashing Facebook and anybody who likes it, so can we try to stick to the subject? Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 12:43 PM I heartily agree. The spat that started after my 6.34 post of yesterday was trolled should not have happened. But when someone follows you round looking for trouble something will occasionally give. Sorry about that. Anyway, I don't like Facebook and I think we'll see its decline in the next few years. Ahem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 07:24 PM Sorry, Joe, but the running sore of two people being constantly stalked by someone who persists in calling us Jew-haters and who never has any other input into discussions is not "crap." You wouldn't like it, would you? I'm quite happy that you and Jeri can't be arsed to read the contentious and tedious threads in which this comes up. But it does come up and it isn't nice, and it's even less nice when you guys feel free to bollock us for bringing it up when you don't bother to look into it. I mean, you're busy people, so don't look into it. Fine. But then please stop bollocking us from a position of ignorance. As I've just told Joe in a PM, I'm getting sorely pissed off with this. But my parting shot was to ask him, you know, Joe, nothing like a Jew-hater, same as me and Jim, how he would like to be repeatedly called a Jew-hater on a public forum. Not nice, that, is it, Joe? You've taken umbrage with me for far lesser "insults," haven't you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jeri Date: 27 May 17 - 07:39 PM It's not (only) that I'm busy. It's mostly that I don't care. I think that the best thing that could happen is if this small group of people got so frustrated, they found "a debate forum" to fight about shit and not spew toxins all over a forum that was originally intended to be for friends having lively discussions about various possibly music related topics. The more you piss in the pool, the more the only people left in the pool are those who enjoy swimming in piss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 07:49 PM It is absolutely not like that. The vast bulk of below-the-line is friendly, witty and sociable. In one breath you say you can't be bothered with it yet in the next you say it's a cesspool. So how do you know? A bit of it is, but most of it just isn't. "I hardly go there and it's shite" is just abject. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 07:50 PM Well said Jeri even though I recognize myself as a target of your deprecation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 27 May 17 - 07:52 PM It's mostly that I don't care. Got it in one - but you should. That's the source of the problem full stop, if you're going to pretend to do your job as a mod. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 08:03 PM Well Greg if Jeri were to do that the pathetic remains of the BS section would be reduced to a couple of mundane threads and the pitiful whining of a few Brits - as your president is wont to say......sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Joe Offer Date: 27 May 17 - 08:34 PM The "pain in the ass" list is getting very long, and it's on both sides of the argument. Somebody uses the term "Jew Hater," and then the term gets used ten times more by the people that don't like the "Jew Hater" term. In this thread, the term "Jew hater" was used once by Bobad quoting somebody else in the midst of 11 times by people who didn't like being called "Jew Hater" but used the term anyhow. Cut it out, or we'll have to close another thread. Can't really say I care who called whom what. It's all juvenile. This is a thread about Facebook, not Jew haters. And whatever you people have to say or not say, I like Facebook because I can share pictures on it. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jack Campin Date: 27 May 17 - 08:35 PM I find it hard to identify with people getting upset by offensive PMs. One great advantage of the Mudcat PM system over most other forms of messaging is that you never need to read anything you don't want to - just tick the box in the Delete column, hit Process, job done. I got a PM this evening from somebody who I assumed was trying to continue a discussion I was done with; I've no idea what they were trying to say and don't care what I missed, that PM is irretrievably gone. "bobad" can send me all the offensive Mudcat PMs she wants. I'm never going to read any of them so why should I be bothered? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 08:57 PM I like Facebook because I can share pictures on it. Yay Joe! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 09:00 PM I don't think this is about offensive private messages, Jack. It's about some eeejit who pops up all over the place, not just trolling but also stalking, who has nothing to say but who is rather adept at name-calling. Joe, unfortunately, shows every sign of not knowing what goes on (fine) because he doesn't read the threads (fine) but who tends to bollock the victims (weird). I should like to ask the confraternity here how they would like to be repeatedly called Jew haters by some piece of scum who can't accept that there are different legitimate views to his apropos of the Middle East. Now sod this. I'm pissed off. Let's talk Facebook which also pisses me off, but hey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 09:01 PM "bobad" can send me all the offensive Mudcat PMs she wants. I'm never going to read any of them so why should I be bothered? However deep in left field that comment comes from all I can say is amen Jack! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Joe Offer Date: 27 May 17 - 09:11 PM OK, that's it. Get back to the original subject. Isn't Facebook fun? Here, go look at some wildflowers (click). Thank you. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 May 17 - 09:18 PM No. Facebook isn't fun. It's an out-of-control monster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 27 May 17 - 09:20 PM Nice flowers Joe. I saw that there was a super bloom in the western deserts this spring, the images were a wonder to behold. Did you manage to get a look? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Joe Offer Date: 27 May 17 - 09:45 PM ...and Lighthouses (click). Look at all those nice lighthouses! I missed my usual flower trips this year, Bobad; but I've seen a lot of flowers right here in the Sierra Foothills. I hear my favorite desert places were way overcrowded. Yosemite is supposed to be a mess this weekend. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 17 - 04:19 AM "In this thread, the term "Jew hater" was used once by Bobad " You cannot produce one thread as an example Joe - that is an utter distortion of the situation The term has always been a permanent feature of Bobad's vocabulary and has appeared dozens of times on every single argument that has occurred on the Middle East and on the Palestine/Israel conflict - without exception. He uses it without hesitation on all opponents and he refuses to qualify it in any way shape or form I have a permanent offer on the table that if Bobad, Bearded Bruce, or whoever can produce one single example of my hating Jews I will make a generous donation to any named charity - over several years, that offer has never been taken up - not once has anyone attempted to do so. And still Bobad keeps it coming - years worth of it - not the once you appear to suggest. And I have little doubt he will continue to do so - he really does appear to be such a 'bear of little brain'. I grew up in a household where, if I was heard denigrating any people for their race or beliefs I would would have been thrown out on my arse. My father was inspired to go to Spain where he was wounded and imprisoned in a Spanish prison, because of what was happening to the Jews in Germany (and on the streets of Liverpool) His funeral, when he died, was attended by men who had fought for Israeli independence "Jewish freedom fighters" My grandmother was arrested for throwing a stone which struck our home grown British "Jew hater" Oswald Mosley. I spent four years associating with holocaust survivors and their families who insisted "never again" - not to anybody" - they shared then and no doubt still do, my attitude to what is happening in modern Israel Bobad is fully aware of these facts - he has sneered at them often enough - and he persists with his cowardly "Jew hater" attacks from the safety of anonymity and the indifference of the forum administrators, it would appear. I'm not a Christian and am not prepared to "turn the other cheek" - not forever, at least. When a turdule like Bobad, who openly and in defiance of all definitions which make it antisemitic to associate the actions of the Israeli State with the Jewish People as a whole, accuses me of something he is guilty of every time he uses the term "Jew hater" I refuse to apologise for how I react. Enough is enough It really is time that those in charge stop this snake in his slither - he has to stop voluntarily or he has to be removed - simple as that The worm is this quite tasty apple debases argument and he debases this forum in doing so Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: akenaton Date: 28 May 17 - 10:51 AM As far as I can see the "Jewish people" support the Israeli State strongly....almost unanimously. I usually keep well clear of this complicated subject, but Jim's continual over-simplifications begin to grate after a while. Without doubt, the State of Israel is under severe pressure, surrounded as it is by Arab Nations who find it impossible to control their own populations.....in saying that, the policy of settlement growth is hardly beneficial to a peaceful outcome. The Arabs practice terrorism on an on-going basis and the Israelis obviously believe that it is in their interests to respond in kind. The conflict could and should have been broughtto a conclusion years ago, but successive corrupt Arab leaders have seen it in theie PERSONAL interests to fan the flames. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 17 - 01:02 PM As far as I can see the "Jewish people" support the Israeli State strongly....almost unanimously. Bullshit, if what you're implying is that they support the multiple atrocities committed by the Govt. of Israel. Time for a trip to your occulist, Ake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 17 - 01:19 PM Leave this for Facebook and don't get dragged into this extremist's idiocy Greg His selective short-nearsightedness speaks for itself And for god's sake don't mention Albert Einstein, the Holcause survivors, Jews and Rabis for justice or all those "self hating Jews" We'll be here till Christmas Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 28 May 17 - 01:21 PM Welcome to Israel, the only country in the world where self defense is an atrocity. "This way for the gas, ladies and gentlemen." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 17 - 02:29 PM "Welcome to Israel, the only country in the world where self defense is an atrocity. " Aparently it is when the Arabs indulge in it in defence of their lives and families I believe the Nazis put up exactly the same excuse when they slaughtered the people of Lidice Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 17 - 02:33 PM ISRAELI SELF DEFENCE Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: bobad Date: 28 May 17 - 02:41 PM ISRAELI SELF DEFENSE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Facebook, Again. From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 May 17 - 03:07 AM A totally one sided and meaning list carefully omitting every single massacre and atrocity committed by the Israelis Where is Der Yassin, or the atrocities of the Six Days War testified to by Israeli troops, where is Sabra Shatila where are the military incursions tat slaughtered so many Palestinian civilians, including the elderly and deffenceless women andf children and destroyed so many homes and hospitals... Where are the documented reports of the use of chemicals and anti personnel missiles like white phosphorus and flechette Where are the seizures of land - where are the maps documenting those seizures Any agenda driven moron can compile a list as long as the omit the facts. Palestine in a nation populated by an impoverished third world people facing a highly trained heavily armed extremist right wing State who wish to ethnically cleanse the area in order to make room for a wealthy politically powerful people of one religion. The only reason it has never faced charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity is that it has been protected from doing so by United States vetoes - no other reason. Try some facts from ISRAELI HUMANISTS B'tslem figures show that over ten years, from 2004 to 2014, 26 Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinian rocket fire According to U.N. figures, in 2014 alone, 1,462 Palestinian civilians, including 551 children were killed by Israeli troops, the Israeli civilian dead totalled 6, including a child. That is how "defensive" Israeli terrorism has been down the years. Enough of this The only reason Israel is on this thread is the fact that Israel and Facebook are now conspiring to censor any discussion of the the conflict that is detrimental to Israeli's efforts to clear the area of Arabs - a blatent attempt to suppress information on what is actually happening in this conflict. |
