BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 02:56 PM

"But it was not a racist killing, and all Mancunians knew that."
Nobody knows that, and certainly not you in your leafy cocoon
You deliberately missed th killing of children in Syria, as is you wont
"reported the killer's sister's statement that he was motivated by the killing of his friend and the killing of children in Syria,"
What are you on - lying tablets, as well as 'protect the racists' pills?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 11:48 AM

I was not supporting anyone's claim. I was saying that it could well have had a racial motive as well as a criminal one. You speak as if the two are mutually exclusive. I can assure you that they are not.

I did not keep quiet about it either. There was no reason for me to post on Mudcat about it until now. Nor will I post anything compromising about Manchester gangs on an open forum for obvious reasons. But I have spoken about it vociferously elsewhere. How can you claim I have not when you have no idea where else I post?

And all your points about me are as personal and nasty as anything I have posted about you. You are nothing but a hypocrite of the worst order.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 11:39 AM

Jim,
"He thought it explained Abedi's crime."
And no - I thought it explained no such thing

But you said,
"Not too difficult if you take the statements of his family and friends into consideration.
They put it down to the racist killing of his friend."

But it was not a racist killing, and all Mancunians knew that.
Right Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 11:33 AM

keith, dave was under no obligation to interpret the news for us.

No obligation?
He was supporting Jim's claim that it was a racist/Islamophobic attack, but keeping quiet that the police knew it be just gang feuding.
That is devious and dishonest.

Anyway, he failed and Jim is proved wrong again.
The police know it was gang crime and a string of gang members are standing trial for the killing.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 11:33 AM

Having spent my formative years in Manchester let me assure you that gang were not just located in South Manchester, nor were they exclusive to any one group of people. Salford and Cheetham Hill were particular areas "controlled" by gangs and trust me on this one they were not of Afro-Caribbean or Asian descent.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 11:02 AM

"the beeb decided their genius was to reintroduce violence into the Irish political agenda."
The Beeb was wrong, as is common in these matters
It was the Prods wot introduced the gun into 20th Irish Politics via the Howth gunrunning, just as it was the Prods who drew the first blood in the 1960..... Troubles
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 09:18 AM

i remember the BBC writing about Connolly and Pearse in the 1966 book they issued about the 1916 rising - the beeb decided their genius was to reintroduce violence into the Irish political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 08:10 AM

"He thought it explained Abedi's crime."
And no - I thought it explained no such thing
I said that his sister claimed he became radicalised by the killing of children in Syria and the murder of his friend, which you chose to deny.
I have made my position on the action of these people and the connection to British racism and British policy in countries like Syria and the Middel East in general
Stop trivialising what I say by deliberately misinterpreting it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 08:05 AM

"as opposed to it being a criminal gang inspired "
This was a territorial dispute between two racially divided gangs, which makes it a racial attack
An individual "trespassed into another's territory.
The "criminality" of either side has yet to be established.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 07:32 AM

Trouble with those attempting to portray the murder as being racially motivated as opposed to it being a criminal gang inspired act have to explain why the victim was specifically hunted down and killed - had it been purely a racist attack then any Muslim would have done wouldn't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 07:30 AM

keith, dave was under no obligation to interpret the news for us.

you do seem to be on his case a bit.

as far as i can see - unhinged is unhinged. the doors have come off. brexit means brexit. and bonkers is bonkers.

that spells lone nutter to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 07:11 AM

What I really said Dave,

"You must have been aware all along that the police knew it to be a gang killing and not racial.

Yet you kept quiet about it."

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 06:03 AM

Jim raised the issue of the murder.
He thought it explained Abedi's crime.
Dave,
Keith says that the murder was not race related.

No. The Police say that. I believe them but you think you know better.

I didn't. I was very verbose about it(the murder). Maybe you just live on a different planet?

You were verbose about it but kept quiet about it being a gang feud according to the police.
Do you deny knowing that the police found it not to be a racist crime?

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 03:27 AM

"I think we can just leave it at that."
Amen to that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 03:05 AM

You are right to be confused, Al. I think I have lost the plot as well but basically the bombers sister says he became unhinged after that murder. Keith says that the murder was not race related. I say I am not sure. It is of no consequence really and I think we can just leave it at that.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 02:42 AM

"what is the source of your disagreement Keith and Dave?"
Personally, I believe it is no longer enough to put these attacks down to acts of "lone nutters" Al and the way to discover what else might lie behind them is to examine them in every aspect
The fact that a 'usual suspect' is prepared to put in so much time and effort into denying racism towards our immigrant communities might be a possible contributory factor only confirms my view
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 06:36 PM

i'm sort of missing the point here.

what is the source of your disagreement Keith and Dave?

there was a murder last year - gang or race related - what has it to do with the bombing?

i'm getting confused.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 05:36 PM

Yet you kept quiet about it.

I didn't. I was very verbose about it. Maybe you just live on a different planet?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 04:48 PM

You do this every time you lose an argument Jim.
Lies and false accusations.

If I have defended racism, QUOTE ME LIAR!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 11:58 AM

Why do you continue to defend racism Keith (rhetorical question again)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 10:49 AM

Dave, it has become clear to me what a huge story this is in Manchester.
Last year the horrific and brutal murder of a teenager, in broad daylight, in crowded streets. The large number of assailants who took part in the killing.
This year the trials, and the connection to the concert bombing.

You must have been fully aware all along of the shocking details.
You must have been aware all along that the police knew it to be a gang killing and not racial.

Yet you kept quiet about it.
You did not want the truth to come out here, because it did not suit your agenda.
Another shining example of your superior morality.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 07:48 AM

Jim, it was not witnesses being reassured that it was not racism, it was local communities.
Do you claim that the police were lying to them?

The murder took place in rush hour in front of horrified commuters.
I know Manchester well enough to know that the crowds would be multi-ethnic, so this Libyan Arab was singled out for some other reason.

Dave,
"It is the prosecution case "
Exactly - what else are they going to say?

Do you suppose that the defence case is that they were just racists!??

The DPP, informed by the Police, say it was gang violence not racism, but what do they know compared to you Dave?
You should tell them about your pub experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 06:13 AM

i may be wrong, but so may you two.

Absolutely, Al. I have never dealt in absolutes. I am sure there is some truth in everyone's posts. The problems arise when you get people saying that their's is the only version and everyone else is wrong.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 05:52 AM

"It is the prosecution case "
Exactly - what else are they going to say?
I haven't the slightest idea why you should persist in denigrating an aspect of this attack which gives us a possible clue into the cause of this horrific massacre of so many people
The family of the killer claimed he was motivated by what he believed to be racism - if that is the case it is part of our understanding of the bombing
Why are you busting a gut to deny it?
Are you really so concerned about defending British racism that you would wipe out a piece of possible evidence
You surprise even me sometimes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 04:13 AM

"You made that up."
Policeman's statement from the link
"We were able to calm the young people in the neighbourhoods who felt they were targeted... as Muslims," he said. "But it seems that Salman did not forget the incident."
"I personally talked with him and tried to convince him that it was just a criminal act," he added.
The witnesses believed the attack to be racist - the police "calmed them down" - there is no indication that they proved it wasn't and there is no such proof
There certainly could not have been immediately after the attack and, as nobody has ever been convicted of the crime, there is still no evidence of why it happened
The report makes a point that it was "British Youths" - why, if it did not have a racial motive?
I set out to try and understand why this man carried out this horrendous attack because I believe it necessary if further attacks are to be prevented
You have decided to defend the possible racist element of this murder for reasons best known to yourself.
I have done what I intended, I leave you to wallow in what your own agenda
I don't expect an apology (again) for being accused of soething I have not done - that doesn't appear to be part of your make-up
I'm off
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 04:06 AM

"Mr Johnson said 13 people were involved in the attack, with the first tranche of seven defendants being tried now and the remainder later this year.
He told the jury Mr Hafidah had been chased by a rival gang, adding: "It is the prosecution case that Abdul Wahab Hafidah was himself the member of a gang and had gone into the territory of a rival gang. The defendants are all members of, affiliated to, or sympathisers with, that rival gang." "

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 04:02 AM

Manchester Evening News,
"Teen gang member spotted in rival territory was hunted down and stabbed to death, jury hears
Abdul Wahab Hafidah suffered fatal injuries during the attack in Moss Side"
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/teen-gang-member-spotted-rival-12982684

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 03:12 PM

Jim, it was not any kind of shooting.
The policeman on te spot puts it down to a criminal act - a driveby shooting - no gang feud, no warring grous at all
Those on the spot believed it to be a racist shooting

You made that up.
The kid was run down and stabbed.
It was a gang killing not race related.

From your own last link,
""We were able to calm the young people in the neighbourhoods who felt they were targeted... as Muslims," he said. "But it seems that Salman did not forget the incident."
"I personally talked with him and tried to convince him that it was just a criminal act," he added.
British media reported that Abdul Wahab Hafidah died after being run over and stabbed in the neck in Manchester's Moss Side district in May last year.
His suspected killers are still on trial."

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 02:42 PM

well yes Dave, but this seems a crime more qualitatively like Columbine and Breivik than the IRA, or Dale Cregan.

fucked up loner...alienated, intelligent - but not pulling up any trees career wise.

i may be wrong, but so may you two.
time will tell. calling each other names when we don't know the facts. can't see the point.

it will take people with more resources and time than we've got to work out the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 01:31 PM

Where in the statement you have quoted have I suggested any inadequacies, Keith? I asked a genuine question and stated we lived in different worlds. Not worse or better. Just different. Now do you understand why I keep suggesting that we speak different languages as well? You read things into my words that do not exist. You call my morality shit. You say you live on planet nice while I, presumably do not. And you have the temerity to call me nasty! Unbelievable.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 01:16 PM

Where does it involve the Blood and the Crips ?
Where does it not make it a racist killing the Abedi believed it you be?
You claimed it to be a gang feud related murder and presented the Bloods and the Crips as the warring parties
The policeman on te spot puts it down to a criminal act - a driveby shooting - no gang feud, no warring grous at all
Those on the spot believed it to be a racist shooting
"25 May 2017 - 15H20
Suspected Manchester bomber had 'desire for revenge'
      
inShare

© AFP | People lay flowers in tribute to the victims of the May 22 bomb attack in Manchester in northern England
TRIPOLI (AFP) -
Suspected Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi had expressed a desire to avenge the killing of a friend in the British city last year, a source close to his family said Thursday.

His friend, also of Libyan descent, died after being stabbed by British youths in Manchester in May 2016, the source said on condition of anonymity.

"That incident stirred up a sense of anger among young Libyans in Manchester and especially Salman, who clearly expressed his desire for revenge," he said.
"We were able to calm the young people in the neighbourhoods who felt they were targeted... as Muslims," he said. "But it seems that Salman did not forget the incident."
You presented this as warring gangs in which Abedi's mate was involved - if it was not a racist incident, Abedi believed it was and it was part of his twisted logic that incited hi to do what he did.
You have first denied that the sister's statement was never made and that I invented it and then moved on to claim the killing was related to gangland warfare - naming two gangs who had no part in any of it.
The frightening thing about all of tehse acts of terrorism is that they are not being carried out by criminal gangs but, in the main, normal, often intelligent young people who have been driven into the arms of Isis and other fanatics because they believe they have been rejected by British society
If you care to check the date of the killing, it happened right in the middle of the Brexit campaign when your mate Farrago was holding up his racist poster depicting hordes of Asians "invading" Britain - that is what makes it the possible racist attack Abadi believed it to be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 12:51 PM

Dave,
I haven't suggested any inadequacies in anyone.

You did not juts try to claim, wrongly, that it was racist, you said of me, "And you know all about Manchester gangs do you Keith?"
" You really do live in a different world don't you."

No need for all that shit in an up to then friendly discussion.

Jim,
Where does it say his was the friend who his sister claimed was the reason

From your own link Jim,
"A family friend also alleged that it was the murder of Abedi's teenage friend that caused him to kill.
The teenager was run over and stabbed in Manchester in May 2016 in what is believed to have been a gangland killing."

And,
"Such anger was reportedly heightened when one of his friends, 18-year-old Abdul Wahab Hafidah, was murdered in the Moss Side area of Manchester a year ago."
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/salman-abedi-young-man-thirsting-for-revenge/ar-BBBxoOp

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 12:17 PM

racist...starting pistol...

its the way you tell 'em.....
sorta cross between a crossword clue and a joke

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 11:58 AM

"Jim, his friend was 18-year-old Abdul Wahab Hafidah."
Where does it say his was the friend who his sister claimed was the reason
A RACIST KILLING BY A "GANG OF BRITISH YOUTHS"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 11:49 AM

No need to suggest personal inadequacies in anyone.

I haven't suggested any inadequacies in anyone. Just differences. It is you that say that my morality is shit while you live on planet nice, Keith. It is all there for anyone to see.

Al - Yes, you are spot on. A maniac, an arsehole and a murderer. But, as I said earlier, the more we understand about what made him that way, the better chance we have of stopping some other poor sod going the same way.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 11:28 AM

Jim, once again you are proved wrong and I right.

"Abdul Wahab Hafidah, 18, was run over by a Vauxhall Corsa on Moss Lane East during the evening rush-hour before the occupants stabbed him in his neck and abdomen on May 12.
The violence began on December 30 when a 22-year-old man was blasted in the chest on Salisbury Street. He was lucky to survive.
Then on March 22, Ahmed Mohammed - known locally as 'Mudz' - was fatally stabbed on Crondall Street.
Police have previously said all three incidents are linked to a feud between 'established criminal groups' in Moss Side and Rusholme.
The M.E.N.(Manchester Evening News) understands those groups are the Moss Side Bloods and the Rusholme Crips"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/feud-between-bloods-crips-gangs-8043802

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 10:03 AM

Jim, his friend was 18-year-old Abdul Wahab Hafidah.
My ITV link identified the gangs involved,
"A feud between two south Manchester gangs is behind the outbreak of violence in Moss Side which has resulted in two murders since December, police believe. Tensions between teenage members of the Moss Side Bloods - an offshoot of the infamous Doddington crew - and the Rusholme Crips have erupted over the last few months, according to a senior police source. "
Give your sources that those gangs were involved and for their makeup.

The friend was a gang member and his killing was part of a gang feud and not racist.
ITV link I provided.
"are being linked to the feud. Abdul Wahab Hafidah, 18, was run over by a Vauxhall Corsa on Moss Lane East during the evening rush-hour before the occupants stabbed him in his neck and abdomen on May 12."
http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2016-05-25/gang-feud-behind-outbreak-of-violence-in-manchester/

From your own link Jim,
"A family friend also alleged that it was the murder of Abedi's teenage friend that caused him to kill.
The teenager was run over and stabbed in Manchester in May 2016 in what is believed to have been a gangland killing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539734/Sister-reveals-motives-Manchester-bomber.html#ixzz4kGXf6D46

MSM link I provided.
"Such anger was reportedly heightened when one of his(Abedi's) friends, 18-year-old Abdul Wahab Hafidah, was murdered in the Moss Side area of Manchester a year ago."
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/salman-abedi-young-man-thirsting-for-revenge/ar-BBBxoOp

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:56 AM

Aww C'mon Gnome, Big Al ...........

A RACIST CRIME - STARTING PISTOL - As used to start races you dull prats

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:55 AM

Jim Carroll - 17 Jun 17 - 03:15 AM

"Having gone through the links supplied related to Manchester gangs and gun crime - the gangs are obviously criminal in nature not "racist""

See the crack about the Starting Pistol" passed over your head at 40,000 ft Jom?

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:37 AM

Keith
You have busted a gut trying to link this bomber to 'Gang killings', ignoring several basic facts
He was from Burnage, not Moss-side, where the gangs you cited operated from
He was a Muslim of Asian background, whereas the two gangs you cited, the Blood and Crips, are Afro-Caribbean
You made it up to make a racist point and divert the discussion from the real problem of terrorism today, which involves the British establishment
Nowhere has anyone attempted to link the killing which, it is claimed, motivated this guy to do what he did - all your own work
You have had examples of your making things up enough for me to leave it there
Much better if you don't apologise - it serves to underline your behavior
Moving on - I suggest you do the same
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:34 AM

In none of the reports which reported the killer's sister's statement that he was motivated by the killing of his friend and the killing of children in Syria, is the name of the dead friend mentioned or the date that it happened,

The date, May 2016 was given and a description of the killing.

Here the name is given,
"Such anger was reportedly heightened when one of his friends, 18-year-old Abdul Wahab Hafidah, was murdered in the Moss Side area of Manchester a year ago."
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/salman-abedi-young-man-thirsting-for-revenge/ar-BBBxoOp

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:14 AM

Jim,
You have already been given evidence of your accusing me of lying

No. There is none. You lie.
I said it had not been carried by any UK news agencies BUT STATED that it had appeared elsewhere. You got it elsewhere.

Yes - they admit they are wrong, they don't try to win prizes and when they accse somebody unjustly and are proved having done so, they apologise and withdraw their accusation
They never tell lies
You fail on all counts

If I have been wrong about a single thing here, QUOTE ME.
If I have lied, QUOTE ME!
If I have accused you of making anything up, QUOTE ME!
(You earlier quoted me NOT accusing you of making anything up!)

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 06:44 AM

"If I have been wrong about a single thing here, QUOTE ME."
If you have nbeen right about one single thing quote yourself
An example of your lying distortion
In none of the reports which reported the killer's sister's statement that he was motivated by the killing of his friend and the killing of children in Syria, is the name of the dead friend mentioned or the date that it happened, yet here you are turning it into a gang killing and acting as if you have "won something"
Your dishonest is no more than a disversive tactic away from the fact that the West is largely responsible for the rise of terrorism in the world today - Isis would never have gained a toe-hold had in not been for the west's self-interested action and its selling arms to despotic regimes.
You have already been given evidence of your accusing me of lying yet you continue to deny you have and ask for evidence
One more time
"Please give details, because no UK news agency has carried such a story."
There you go I said it was in the press, you denied it, therefore I made it up"
Don't bother any protesting more Keith - I have made my point (or you have made it for me
Stop telling lies please
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 06:09 AM

Jim,
Yes - they admit they are wrong, they don't try to win prizes and when they accse somebody unjustly and are proved having done so, they apologise and withdraw their accusation
They never tell lies
You fail on all counts

If I have been wrong about a single thing here, QUOTE ME.
If I have lied, QUOTE ME!
If I have accused you of making anything up, QUOTE ME!
(You earlier quoted me NOT accusing you of making anything up!)

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 06:03 AM

Al,he was a murderer, but his motive was religious and his crime was the mass murder of strangers which sets him apart from your average murderer.

Dave,
main findings of the analysis were that:
• violence in general, gun violence and fatal shootings in particular are concentrated in specific small areas of South Manchester
• victims of gun violence in South Manchester are mainly young, black or mixed race males, who themselves have criminal records
• those who have been victims of shootings are at increased risk of being a victim again
• perpetrators of serious gun violence in South Manchester are mainly young black or mixed race males, who have criminal records
• about 60 per cent of shootings are thought to gang related
• there are strong social norms (in particular in providing evidence in court) inhibiting co-operation with police enquiries into gang-related shootings, which undermine successful prosecution of offenders
• alliances are sometimes formed between South Manchester gangs, but conflict is endemic and easily triggered
• gangs in South Manchester are loosely turf-based
• there are significant differences in the origins, activities, and organisation of the four main South Manchester gangs known to the police, though members of all the gangs are involved in a wide range of criminal behaviour
• gang-related criminal behaviour includes drug-related offences, but only as one element of a patchwork of violent and non-violent crime
• gang membership is not just about criminality; for some young males it incorporates a credible lifestyle choice
• gang-membership comprises a mix of same-age local friendship groups, blood relatives and recruits
• the carrying of firearms by gang-members is part protective, and part symbolic, though they are also sometimes used in the commission of violent crime
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110220105210/rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/crrs13.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:58 AM

"You know. Like nice people do when they put opposing views in a conversation."
Yes - they admit they are wrong, they don't try to win prizes and when they accse somebody unjustly and are proved having done so, they apologise and withdraw their accusation
They never tell lies
You fail on all counts
"I have found nothing to suggest that those gangs are motivated by anything but crime."
And you have failed totally to establish that this was what was said to have promoted these killings
An example of your dishonesty
This is not about people disputing whether these gangs are racially motivated - nobody is claiming they are - one of your red-herrings
It is about what motivated this killer
Al has just put in=t in a nutshell
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:50 AM

who gives a fuck? perhaps he did it for the salvation army and green peace.

the salient point = he was a maniac asshole.

plenty of people will be sympathetic to the same causes and live upstanding lives.

this twat was a murderer.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:48 AM

Dave,
You think that is nasty and personal? You really do live on a different planet.

Yes. Planet Nice.

You could have questioned that it was not racist without all that.
You know. Like nice people do when they put opposing views in a conversation.
No need to suggest personal inadequacies in anyone.

Yes, his friend was killed by a rival gang in feud. So what? How does that make it not racist? It could well be criminal and racist.

I have found nothing to suggest that those gangs are motivated by anything but crime.
Can you find anyone other than you who claims that race is an issue for them?
Any evidence at all?
I have linked to several authoritative articles that all say they are criminal and the issue of race is never raised at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:22 AM

You think that is nasty and personal? You really do live on a different planet.

Yes, his friend was killed by a rival gang in feud. So what? How does that make it not racist? It could well be criminal and racist. Do you have any evidence to say it was not?

Who has ever said it makes Abedi worthy of any sympathy? Certainly not me. But to help prevent it happening again all the causes need to be examined.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lone nutter did Manchester bombing
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:16 AM

Abedi's friend was killed in a feud between rival gangs with no evidence to even suggest that race was an issue even in the quotes Jim produced.

Dave, you challenged my statement that it was not racist.
You made it nasty and personal. "And you know all about Manchester gangs do you Keith?"
" You really do live in a different world don't you."

There is absolutely no evidence that the gangs are racially motivated.
They are just criminal and violent.

It was not a racist killing.
His friend was a gang member killed in a feud with a rival gang.
The killing was not racial and does not make Abedi a victim worthy of any sympathy.
He was a Jihadi killing entirely innocent people and children for his cause.
If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, let's see it.