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BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default

Backwoodsman 19 Aug 17 - 11:13 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Aug 17 - 11:33 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Aug 17 - 12:12 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Aug 17 - 12:16 PM
michaelr 19 Aug 17 - 12:29 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Aug 17 - 01:28 PM
DMcG 19 Aug 17 - 02:00 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Aug 17 - 03:07 PM
DaveRo 19 Aug 17 - 03:09 PM
DMcG 19 Aug 17 - 03:35 PM
Greg F. 19 Aug 17 - 04:00 PM
Acme 19 Aug 17 - 04:49 PM
Joe Offer 19 Aug 17 - 08:25 PM
Jeri 19 Aug 17 - 08:31 PM
Joe Offer 19 Aug 17 - 09:17 PM
Acme 19 Aug 17 - 10:46 PM
DaveRo 20 Aug 17 - 02:01 AM
Joe Offer 20 Aug 17 - 02:23 AM
DMcG 20 Aug 17 - 02:45 AM
DaveRo 20 Aug 17 - 02:58 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Aug 17 - 04:20 AM
Mr Red 20 Aug 17 - 03:00 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Aug 17 - 03:50 PM
Jeri 20 Aug 17 - 04:31 PM
Joe Offer 20 Aug 17 - 09:25 PM
Jeri 20 Aug 17 - 10:36 PM
DaveRo 21 Aug 17 - 01:44 AM
keberoxu 22 Aug 17 - 12:32 PM
Joe Offer 22 Aug 17 - 04:09 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Aug 17 - 04:52 PM
FreddyHeadey 24 Aug 17 - 03:57 PM
DaveRo 24 Aug 17 - 04:56 PM
Joe Offer 24 Aug 17 - 06:43 PM
DaveRo 25 Aug 17 - 02:09 AM
Monique 25 Aug 17 - 03:18 AM
Acme 25 Aug 17 - 09:59 AM
DaveRo 25 Aug 17 - 01:11 PM
akenaton 26 Aug 17 - 03:12 AM
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Subject: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 11:13 AM

I asked a perfectly reasonable question about something that has changed on Mudcat. An unidentified Moderator closed it without answer or comment.

So, I ask again - why the enforced default to 3 days?
I don't want to have to trawl through three days-worth of stuff looking for threads I'm interested in - why can't I set my own default back to one day?


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 11:33 AM

I wondered why the two lists had suddenly lengthened! You can set it back to one day just for the trawl, though, can't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 12:12 PM

Yes, you can Steve, and that's what I'm doing. But it defaults to three days again the next time I come back.

I was just wondering why the change? Seems a perfectly reasonable question, asked in a perfectly reasonable way. So why don't 'The Powers That Be' give a reasonable response, instead of summarily closing the thread? Apparently others have asked the same reasonable question, and had the same unreasonable response.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 12:16 PM

Aaaaaaahh! I believe I got the answer in the 'closed' thread (if I'm understanding the signals correctly!).

Thanks Mods - please feel free to close this thread if I'm correct!


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 12:29 PM

"I don't want to have to trawl through three days-worth of stuff"

The most recently posted-to threads appear on top. No need for trawling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 01:28 PM

I prefer to only see one days-worth of stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 02:00 PM

It is more work to have personal defaultts rather than a global one and if Max doesn't choose to spend his time doing that, I won't complain.

Any webmaster will want to set such defaults to what, in their judgement, is most convenient for most people. If you have large number of threads then displaying 3 days is not desirable; on the other hand if there are few threads 1 day doesn't show enough. It is a matter of judgement and it is perfectly reasonable to revisit it from time to time to change the defaults to those you think are most appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 03:07 PM

I simply wanted to understand the reason - who better to ask than the Mods? However, as I said above, I believe I discovered the answer elsewhere.

End of, AFAIC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 03:09 PM

DMcG wrote: If you have large number of threads then displaying 3 days is not desirable...
Maybe.
...on the other hand if there are few threads 1 day doesn't show enough.
Why?

Is your hypothesis that users ought to be able to respond to something, so as the number of active users decreases you need to offer them a constant - or not diminishing - number of threads to respond to?

But if you can see three days' posts then there's less incentive to visit the site daily - which may have some negative consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 03:35 PM

Sort of, and I agree there is a possibility that people shift to only visiting every few days. But the rationale is a mixture of avoiding a website looking dead because there are very few threads and also avoiding the need for people to have to do extra clicks to see whatever they are interested in. As I tried to suggest, there are no hard and fast rules on these things. Even on a commercial website with active monitoring of how many people are visiting when it is a matter of judgement, and more so when there is no business incentive behind it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 04:00 PM

Boy, life's a real bitch sometimes, ain't it gang?

Get over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Acme
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 04:49 PM

There was a perfectly clear confirmation check-mark on the last speculative post you put up - the BS section seems to have shortened because some of the fighting threads were closed. That's a good thing. But the entire page looked a little skimpy - perhaps people are out enjoying summer and not posting as much above or below. If it picks up I imagine the setting will revert back. It's up to Max.

Threads asking about the operation and moderation at mudcat usually aren't allowed, or are very short.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 08:25 PM

I plead guilty. It seemed to me that music threads weren't getting answers (and some subjects were being repeated because people didn't see that a similar thread had been started a day before), so I suggested to Max that we change the default to 3 days to give a little longer life to threads. It's an experiment. If we've had it for a while and people don't like it, it's easy to change back.
And if you really don't want to look at 3 days' worth of threads, set the "age" back to 1 day - or go to Messages by Day in the dropdown QuickLinks menu.

A quick question like this, is a good thing to post in the FAQ.

Acme, I have to admit I didn't understand the checkmark or the reason the other thread was closed. We don't allow threads about the moderation of Mudcat because it is not in Mudcat's interest to have open discussion of moderation tactics (e.g., we closed this thread because so-and-so is being an asshole again, etc. - things that are best said privately) But technical changes have always been open to discussion.

Acme, if you really want to close this thread, go ahead; but I see no reason not to discuss the wisdom of setting the thread age.

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 08:31 PM

Agree with Joe about threads about moderation getting closed, but talking about how Mudcat works is fine. I remember threads in the past being about "He Max, when did you add that thing in the drop-down menu" or questions about how to do something/find something, what the server names are, yada, yada.

I know Max went to 3 days because not that many threads were coming up, but I don't know that that is a problem. (I read "Messages since last visit" anyway, so the way the main threads page works doesn't matter so much to me.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 09:17 PM

And by the way, try that "QuickLinks" dropdown menu. I'll betcha many people haven't seen all the treasures hidden there.
Wanna jump rope. We can help.
Like Russian folksongs? That, too.
Want to learn Scots so you can impress Donald Trump's dead mother? We have a Scots glossary....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Acme
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 10:46 PM

What's there to say? Discussions of features are informative, it's the rest of the stuff that piles on that gets old. And I use the drop down menus every time I visit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:01 AM

Acme wrote: And I use the drop down menus every time I visit.
Which is perhaps why you thought it was of no consequence. I always call up the site from a bookmark so I would have to go through an extra step to get one day's worth. And I'm mainly using a tablet on which the pull-down menu is very inconvenient - I have to zoom in first. I don't leave tabs open for long on a tablet. I see that Backwoodsman is also using tablet computers.

So I now always see three days. And that's OK. I'm happy with Joe's explanation. I always did think one day was a bit short.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:23 AM

Can somebody make a 1-day bookmark link for those who'd prefer That?

I know it's possible but forget how to do it.

Does this work?

yup. Dave's magic word was "bookmark."


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:45 AM

Juat beT me to it there, Joe. All you need to do is add ?age=1 to the address, or any age you like. I tested it with ?age=50, for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:58 AM

I didn't know about that 'age' parameter. Are there any more like that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:20 AM

Neither of my two 'Why suddenly...' threads were started as discussions of thread-moderation. The first was a question about a change in the way the threads listings worked, the reason for which I didn't understand, and thus I requested clarification - nothing more, nothing less.

Had that thread not been summarily closed without comment or answer to my perfectly reasonable question, this second, 'Try Again...' thread would never have existed. I'm always, permanently, logged-in, if the answer was too sensitive to put on-thread, a PM would have served just as well.

As it happens, I saw the 'tick-mark' after my final post on the closed thread, but its significance was completely lost on me until later, after the second thread was under way. At that point, I posted on this thread that I understood, and suggested that this thread had run its course.

End of, AFAIC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 03:00 PM

Cntrl F will search on titles for 1 day
It's not rocket science


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 03:50 PM

Maybe not rocket science to you but, if a person doesn't know these things, it may as well be rocket science. BTW, could you explain to me where the Cntrl Can be found on an iPad?

A bit of advice for you - in my long experience, I've come to realise that nobody likes a clever-shit. You might like to think on that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:31 PM

He's not that clever. [ctrl]/F does nothing on its own and requires other steps that are way more complicated than using the link Joe posted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:25 PM

Jeri, you know these parameters better than I - or at least you did at one time. Can you suggest other parameters people can play with?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 10:36 PM

Joe, I don't know of anything better than what you wrote. People can put longer times in, but Backwoodsman wanted one day, so your link was perfect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 01:44 AM

I discovered that you can use all three of the filter fields: title, age, and filterout. Examples:
http://mudcat.org?title=tech&age=60
http://mudcat.org?title=BS&age=1&filterout=1

'age' is cerainly the most useful one. Thanks for mentioning it, Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 12:32 PM

So three days it is.

Until further notice, no doubt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:09 PM

I can't see a consensus yet. Is the 3-day default preferable, or not? Have you tried bookmarking my one-day link, and does it work for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:52 PM

The link works fine for me, I'm a Happy-Camper. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Aug 17 - 03:57 PM

I like 3 days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 24 Aug 17 - 04:56 PM

I think 3 days is fine - now that I can specify 1 day on mobile. I guess it depends on how often folk visit. I tend to read the site every morning at breakfast - along with half a dozen others.

Alexa's stats suggest there was a slight reduction in users in July - though their numbers are not absolute.
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mudcat.org

There are more than twice as many US visitors than Brits. And 10% of visitors are from France! Are these retired Brits? Sinon, postez plus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Aug 17 - 06:43 PM

That's interesting, Dave. I've always thought the Brits outnumbered everyone else.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 02:09 AM

Yes - I thought you thought that, Joe. That site measures views not posts - it could be Brits post more. You'd need to analyse the server logs to tell - e.g. origin of posts to the 'ThreadNewMess...' pages.

And 10% of visitors from France I find really surprising!


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Monique
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 03:18 AM

If they count 1 visitor by visit, then I must be a huge part of these 10% because I have a look at the site maaaaany times a day!


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: Acme
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 09:59 AM

Ah - Alexa. I've had trouble finding my way into general site information now that "Alexa" is a celebrity at Amazon. Most of their statistical services are now behind a paywall, but I see there is a free browser extension on Chrome. Is that what you're using?


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 01:11 PM

I was looking at the Alexa webpage I linked to (which changes constantly). As you say, most data has to be paid for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Try Again - Why suddenly 3-days default
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Aug 17 - 03:12 AM

I like the 3 day default, but if I gave my reasons it would probably revert to one day.


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