rounds - better harmony

Subject: rounds - better harmony
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 12:30 PM

Hi. This thread isn't about singing rounds, it is about rounds of drink, language and the Mudcat. I called it that in hopes that the Usual Suspects would stay away.

On the 'cat I sometimes see one grouch call another a wanker. (rhymes with tanker). Since to me that means "one who masturbates", I consider this totally out of place for the Mudcat. "Twat," which is a pervert's word for vagina, is worse.

But now I've read a book called "Swearing is Good for You" by English write Emma Byrne. She explains these terms thus:
================
"In the UK, pub drinking is highly ritualized. Drinks are bought in rounds, where one person takes it upon themselves to go to the bar and order drinks for the whole group. Each member of the party is expected to take their turn...and to participate in drinking these rounds. The explains why Brits in large groups tend to get drunk enough to fall over on a regular basis; it's just our way of being polite."

This is where language comes in. A drinker who has genuinely forgotten his wallet and borrows money to pay for a round is a TOSSER.

A drinker who has forgotten his wallet, drinks what others have paid for, but doesn't even buy a round on borrowed money is a WANKER.

A drinker who always pretends to forget his wallet, drinks on every round and then tries to cadge money for a kebab is a TWAT.

(That is probably hyperbole about the kebab.)
===============
So a vindictive British male who calls somebody a wanker or a twat on the Mudcat isn't being as obnoxious as I thought. But since he uses the lingo of the pub to describe day-to-day life, he's probably a drinker. If he's posting in the wee hours, British time, he's probably drunk right now or feeling the negative after-effects.
Either way, it behooves us not to take him seriously.

A few times, I have been insulted by a Usual Suspect, and if I think the timing is right, I ask if he's been drinking. Doing that makes them give up like a popped balloon.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 12:35 PM

bollocks

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 12:45 PM

"Guest??"

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 12:46 PM

Leeneia, I think those people give up because they realize who they're dealing with. Not worth it.

You don't want the "usual suspects" to post, there's less of a chance if you correctly title a BS thread "BS". At least you know which member thinks you're a twat, wanker, tosser, plunker, fuckwit, or cunt (the latter three being some other words popular with the insult brigade).

---

Leeneia started this as a music thread, and I just moved it with this post. -Jeri

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 01:18 PM

Plonker, not plunker. Plonker is very mild, actually, almost affectionate. Tosser, fairly mild but never affectionate. Twat has long moved away from its sexual connotation. Moderate. I don't like fuckwit, wanker or cunt. In fact, I use them only in this present kind of context and never direct them at people here. I do when I'm driving my car, on my own with the windows wound up, or when I'm talking to myself at least two hundred yards from anyone else.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:13 PM

So, if I read leeneia's message correctly, nobody in the UK ever pays for their drinks.....

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:19 PM

Beer is always free tomorrow in the UK, Joe.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM

I taken a liking to the more less gender discriminatory and far progressivierly inclusivier "Prunt"...


which I will endevour to use more frequently in alliterative phrases...

See how highly edumecated and literate us creative Brit swearers can be...!!!

As our noble pretentious prunt Billy the berk Shakespeare might say.. follocks...!!!

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:33 PM

The Queen said, "Twopence a week, and jam every other day."

Alice couldn't help laughing, "...I don't care for jam."

"It's very good jam," said the Queen.

"Well, I don't want any to-day, at any rate."

"You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday - but never jam to-day."

"It must come sometimes to 'jam to-day,' " Alice objected.

"No, it can't," said the Queen. "It's jam every other day. To-day isn't any other day, you know."

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:34 PM

Aaauuuuugh, cross-posted with PFR. My post was a follow-on from Steve's.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 05:45 PM

Pfr, thanks. Any new sweary words comes in handy in this day and age.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 10:08 PM

None of you seem to have read the main point, which is that certain words which seem deeply insulting over here are mere badinage in the UK.

Jeri, now you know why I tried to hide this thread from the topers.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 10:26 PM

...or maybe most of us don't get overly excited by any of these words.

I never did figure out what "tosser" means, though....

-Joe-

But yeah, I am offended by deceptive thread titles. If you want to start a thread to talk about something, the thread title should reflect what you want to talk about. Don't play games.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 10:34 PM

You don't want to hide it if you put it in the music section. For one thing, GUESTs can post there. For another, the subject will soon turn into "why is this in music?!"

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 01:34 AM

""why is this in music?!""


musical swearing has been a real possibility since at least the 1980s...

ok I've obviously dunnit...

Repeat swear words into a microphone plugged into a digital sampler,
then assign each word to a pitched note on a keyboard.

voila.. sweary melodies and chords...


btw.. tosser is a more alternative for wanker...

I find inventively sweary people to be generally more intelligent and creative than prudes..

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:24 AM

In Ireland and Scotland the "F word" seems far more common. In Australia, so I am told, "bastard" is the go to word. Different countries have different ways of using the same terms.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:42 AM

I'm afraid 'someone' taught my husband some very rude words.
I love it when he's driving and an idiot cuts him up,
(Imagine a very French/African accent) he mutters, "Ooouanqeur! Toouatte!"

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:55 AM

I get a moment of childish triumph
when I can trick the wife's prim and proper Amazon Alexa
into saying a swear word...

Alexa's AI safeguard programming is not as infallible as Amazon techs might have hoped...

But does she learn from her mistakes...???

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:59 AM

In Ireland, "feck" and "shite" (with a long I) are a lot milder than their counterparts. Conversely, in the USA where I grew up, "bugger" was tamely colloquial, but considerably more offensive in England - at least when I first moved over there; dunno about now.

As far as why this should be so, who knows? Usages do vary around the world, and the internet is international. So, unfortuntely, is flaming.

Sorry about the thread-drift, but that's part of Mudcat too. I'm guess I'm not sure what it is you're asking us to do. I too was fooled by the thread title.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 04:09 AM

In Norfolk, one of the worst things one can call someone is a 'fewl', or say that they're 'sorft', or that they're talking 'a lood of owld squit'. Very insulting indeed!

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Iains
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 04:46 AM

I have noticed that when the argument is getting a bit threadbare the swearing takes over as some kind of assumed booster mechanism. Others swear purely to be offensive.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 05:41 AM

Of course there is also the mystical Anglo-Saxon incantations often used when jobs are not going as planned. If there is a stubborn nut that will not loosen or a something that will not quite fit in the gap, a two pound lump hammer applied with liberal shouting of four letter words is know to magically get things back on track :-)

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:09 AM

Hi

On a visit to Sligo in Ireland we were having a whale of a time. Later in the evening the sing around somehow turned in a swearing competition.

Having had a few jars I am not sure how it started but two teams .....all women !! started to sing with the lyrics allowed only swear words, many of which i had had never heard.

It was all very friendly and apparently a regular thing.

When I was in the Air Force swearing was rife. I will never forget this burnt into the beam in our billet. Xmas comes but once a Ferking and when it does I'm Ferking Werking.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:10 AM

We were politer in the 1920s - "Pee, Po, Belly, Bum Drawers".

Then there's the old joke about a monk who's knocking a nail into a wall and hits his thumb:

"Oh Christ!
Oh crap - I said Christ!
Oh Christ - I said crap!
Oh shit - I never wanted to be a monk anyway!"

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:16 AM

On a more serious note, there's a fine line between (a) swearing which is truly meant as an insult, and (b) the use of an expletive in an affectionate or familiar way.

"You stupid fucker!" is a good example of (a)

"Come on, you silly old fucker!" is a good example of (b)

Context/personal relationship is everything.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:25 AM

"G'day, you old bastard!" is a term of endearment in Oz.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:25 AM

Swearing can also be a great tension-release. If my wife and I aren't quite seeing eye-to-eye about something, and the pressure is beginning to rise, one of us invariably tells the other to "Go fuck yourself!" - it's our little signal that we don't want the disagreement to go any further, that we regret getting into this position, and we both fall about laughing, give each other a hug, and forget about whatever we were 'debating'.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:34 AM

Plonker is a euphemism for willy which is a euphemism for dick which is a very useful word, as is cock, nobhead, dickhead, bellend and prick. Cock is just brilliant, applied to people, always men, who are loudly and demonstratively and over-confidently full of themselves and not "men's men." Tosser and wanker both derive from male masturbatory activity, the former being slightly less pejorative but still not very polite. Thanks for asking.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:36 AM

"As are." Bugger me sideways with a bent friggin' banana if I didn't review my soddin' post.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:41 AM

Good catch, Steve. Saved Nigel the trouble! ;-)

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:59 AM

Heheh! It's enough to make you swear...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 08:48 AM

LOL! :-)

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 08:49 AM

Are you rolling on the floor laughing your ARSE off?

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 09:16 AM

No, my TITS!

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 04:37 PM

And if you want it auf deutsch,
you need go no further than Mozart,
who was highly scatological
and set some of his own cursing
to the most civilized-sounding little tunes.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 05:57 PM

I learned the word ARSE when I changed schools at the age of 9: presumably my new school was rougher than the previous one! When I came home and recited this rhyme in which it appeared, my mother threatened to scour my mouth out with VIM (remember that?) and I really believed her!
So now, 60+ years on, I'm totally pissed off with those people who use fuck, cunt (for males??), arsehole, asshole, prick, knob, twat, wanker, etc, every second word. Not a prude but there are better and more effectively descriptive words around. The language on social media is tediously repetitive, using just those words that I listed. Oh yes, it used to be emphatic and provoke shock/horror, but it has been so over-used that it has totally lost its impact. So just fuck off al you users of expletives!

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 06:37 PM

"Cunt" is quite an interesting one. It's an ancient word with close equivalents in other languages. Words for male genitalia seem to be far more acceptable. I can't exactly articulate why that should be, but perhaps it's to do with the fact that the male organs "stick out" and are not exactly beautiful by any objective measure I can think of, thereby providing ample material for negative connotations. Not only that, you use 'em then forget it, leaving the missus to deal with the consequences for the next nine months. On the other hand, the vagina (to quote Billy Connolly in one of his respectful moments, a beautiful place with a beautiful name), performs the wonderful physical function at the moment of birth that allows us all to be here to talk about it in the first place. A blunt word that is overwhelmingly pejorative almost every time it's uttered seems jarringly disrespectful, which is why "cunt" is often considered to be the harshest and strongest of all swear words. So the only time I ever use the word is when I'm on my own in my car with the windows up, being held up or otherwise irritated by all those dickheads, tossers, nobheads, pricks, wankers and bellends who are in my way...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 08:13 PM

For the Aussie PoV, checkout Keith McKenry's very excellent pome

"A Study in Linguistics"

found here about halfway down the page :

https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/2j1tlz/printer_in_pork_factory_not_working/


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 12:12 AM

If you are too much of a fanny to utter the word cunt - try foof...

ps.. COSMOPOLITAN - A definitive ranking of all the weird words for your vagina

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 02:02 AM

Or my wife's preferred reference to the vagina - Myrtle.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 02:51 AM

My naughty nieces took great delight in educating me about 'fajazzle'. I couldn't believe my ears. How uncomfortable and itchy that must be, sticking sequins and shiny stuff on one's front bottom.

Husband looked quite astonished, then rather thoughtful when I told him. Hope he isn't getting ideas...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 03:06 AM

Sen - feeling adventurous.. google for vagina tattoos - some are brilliantly inventive/hilarious...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 03:19 AM

Haha pfr! I could get one of a cat. ('pussy' - geddit?) :)

Forgive me for being pedantic, but isn't the 'fajazzle' area technically called the vulva/pudendum, while the vagina is in fact the tube leading to the cervix?

When my husband lifts the heavy supermarket bags into the boot of our car, he grunts loudly and says, "FOOF!" then winks at me. He loves making me cringe, the beast.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 06:22 PM

OOFT! Never heard of foof and I spent a lot of my working life up vaginas! (Family planning an' a' that!)
Senofou's knowledge of anatomy is perfect.
And I thought Myrtle was a turtle? (Les Barker)

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 06:54 PM

My late friend used to call it her 'Mary'. Sounds rather saintly and pure.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 08:35 PM

I just think that "vagina" is a rather lovely word (for a rather lovely place). So many of the words for our genitalia are so ugly that it isn't surprising that we seek more friendly alternatives. I mean, scrotum, penis, nipples, clitoris, vulva, testicles...awful, the lot of them, so we seek out euphemisms, and I'm not talking bollocks here...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 10:39 PM

That's the beauty of swear words.. a transgressive poetic language of the common people..
a bit like folk actually...

much better than those over pedantic dreary medical terms for our love & lust action bits...

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 12:40 PM

Its mainly the Brits who are having a piss

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 01:40 PM

The Scots and Irish craik.

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 03:55 PM

I often sit on the bench in our front garden with SmokeyPokey the cat.
My mate Ruth-over-the-road is forever shouting loudly across the street, "There yew sit agen a-playing wi' yer pussy!" Cheeky besom!

Subject: RE: rounds - better harmony
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 04:55 PM

We Brits think it's funny how confused yanks are about fanny...