Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 23 - 08:42 AM

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ice+Age+Footprints+%7C+Full+Documentary+%7C+NOVA+%7C+PBS&rlz=1C1YTUH_enUS1037US1037&biw=1920&bih

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 23 - 08:22 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/giant-sloth-pendants-suggest-ancient-migration-americas-rcna93812

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 23 - 05:40 AM

My last Wooly Mammoth hunt was so long ago I may have forgotten some of the finer points. It was a lot harder than cow tipping.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 06:48 PM

*grin*

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 11:19 AM

Before or after they're dead?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 07:26 AM

You don't throw them you cut the spinal chord at C1 to C7.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 03:32 AM

Internet Archaeology

was mentioned in the original Guardian report about the hand axes.

"Internet Archaeology (ISSN 1363-5387) is the premier open access archaeology journal. The journal publishes quality academic content and explores the potential of digital publication through the inclusion of data, video, audio, images, visualisations, animations and interactive mapping. Internet Archaeology is international in scope - a journal without borders - and all content is peer-reviewed. Internet Archaeology is hosted by the Department of Archaeology at the University of York and digitally archived by the Archaeology Data Service. Internet Archaeology has been awarded the Directory of Open Access Journals Seal in recognition of our high standards in publishing best practice, preservation and openness. Internet Archaeology was established in 1995 and has been publishing online since 1996.

The journal is hosted by the Department of Archaeology at the University of York and is produced, managed and edited by Judith Winters, who is supported by co-directors Prof. Julian Richards (York) and Dr Michael Heyworth (Council for British Archaeology). Advisory editors support the Editor. The contents of the journal are archived with the Archaeology Data Service whose remit is the long-term preservation of digital research materials."

Plenty of reading there.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 02:47 PM

This article is making the rounds. Science Alert has the same as the Yahoo article linked above. From Business Insider: Mysterious giant 300,000-year-old hand axes were found at an Ice Age site in England. Scientists can't work out why they are so big.

It appears that the Yahoo & Science Alert articles all originated with the Business Insider article. Following the photo credit under the BI photos, I land on Archaeology South-East:

Archaeology South-East is part of the Centre for Applied Archaeology at the UCL Institute of Archaeology. We work across south-east England, London and internationally to bring the world-class expertise of UCL to clients and communities in need of advice on heritage protection and archaeological research. We help shape the future through understanding the past.

A good place to visit for future shares on this thread!

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 10:50 AM

Hand axes would be awfully large as weapons - and throwing them at mammoths is a non-starter. Large tools to process large animals could match up with the straight-tusked elephants mentioned in the article.

Don't forget about Roald Dahl's BFG (Big Friendly Giant). Or Grendel or his mother. :)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 10:44 AM

Bill the handaxes could be weapons for a Mammoth hunt.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 10:30 AM

Setting aside the odd sweeping statements from the last few posts, bog archaeology is actually very interesting. A good read is the wiki article "Bog body," q.v. The chemistry of the particular bog determines the amount and the type of preservation of human bodies. Some bog chemistry is good for bone preservation, some is better for skin, hair and clothing, etc. Tollund Man from Denmark was found with the strangulation rope still round his neck and the anguished expression on his face tells a thousand stories (photo in said wiki article).

---

The last few bickering posts have been swept aside - PLEASE resist the urge to tangle these topical threads with personal animosities. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 07:27 AM

It's a few days since I read the article but i vaguely remember an image of a vertical shaft and, at the bottom of that, horizontal shafts going off both ways. Over a couple of hundred years it is perfectly feasible that the horizontal shaft could get blocked by various kinds of debris and water run off, leaving the horizontal areas without access to fresh air.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 06:47 AM

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/europe-bog-bodies-reveal-secrets-180962770/

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 03:13 AM

Hm: "lack of oxygen" sounds like a journalistic Mondegreen to me (too many subeditors spoil the sense). "Undisturbed air", anyone?

.... That's gonna annoy me all day now. I know that earth that has been freshly dug for the first time in decades has a distinctive smell, which I was told comes from the soil bacteria having gone anaerobic.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 23 - 10:03 AM

Mysterious giant 300,000-year-old hand axes were found at an Ice Age site in England

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 23 - 12:43 AM

Cavers Discover 200-Year Old Mine, Untouched Since the Moment It Was Abandoned
Found in northwest England, the cobalt mine is perfectly preserved due to a lack of oxygen

Members of the Derbyshire Caving Club have uncovered a cobalt mine in Cheshire, England, that operated in the early 19th century.

Sealed off from oxygen, the site contains a “time capsule” of artifacts from the day workers abandoned it, shedding light on what mining was like some 200 years ago, according to a statement from the National Trust, which owns the site.

The small town of Alderly Edge has been a mining destination since the Bronze Age. While the caving club, which has leased the mines since the 1970s, has discovered other mines in the past, the newly-discovered mine is in “pristine condition,” says caving club member Ed Coghlan in the statement.

“This mine hasn’t been disturbed by later mining, it’s not been broken into by kids in the 1960s, it’s not been filled with bottles or other rubbish,” Jamie Lund, a National Trust archaeologist, tells the Guardian’s Esther Addley. “It literally is a time capsule in terms of giving a glimpse into the environment that these miners, who were extracting cobalt, encountered.”

Artifacts found in the mine include shoes, clay pipes and a windlass—a type of winch that would have been used to lift heavy objects. On clay handle holders, the miners’ fingerprints are still preserved, as is the imprint of one miner’s corduroy pants where he leaned against a wall.

Read the rest at the link.

There's a 3D "scan" of the cave here.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Jul 23 - 05:34 PM

Lavish tomb for Spain's 'Ivory Lady' challenges assumptions of prehistoric gender roles Analysis of two teeth dating back nearly 5,000 years has shown that a lavish megalithic tomb in Spain contained a high-status woman, not the young man archaeologists first assumed.

Researchers used a new method of determining sex that analyses tooth enamel. This technique, developed about five years ago, is more reliable than analysing skeletal remains in poor condition, according to their study published on Thursday in the journal Scientific Reports.

The finding indicates the leadership role women played in this ancient society that predated the pyramids of Egypt — and perhaps elsewhere.

She has been dubbed the "Ivory Lady" because of the finely crafted ivory grave objects surrounding her and the fact that a full elephant tusk was laid above her head during burial, as if protecting her, in a tomb dating to between 2800 and 2900 BC.

The tomb, excavated in 2008 near the city of Valencia, was more impressive than any other known from the Iberian peninsula from the time.   (read on)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 23 - 07:06 AM

The backdoor to hell lies under the main altar of a Catholic church built over the ruins. Sounds like a cheap plot device for a horror movie.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 09:34 PM

Archaeologists may have found ruins of fabled entrance to Zapotec underworld
Spanish missionaries deemed Lyobaa to be a "back door to hell" and sealed all entrances.

In 1674, a priest named Francisco de Burgoa published his account of visiting the ruins of the Zapotec city of Mitla in what is now Oaxaca in southern Mexico. He described a vast underground temple with four interconnected chambers, the last of which featured a stone door leading into a deep cavern. The Zapotec believed this to be the entrance to the underworld known as Lyobaa ("place of rest"). Burgoa claimed that Spanish missionaries who explored the ruins sealed all entrances to the temple, and local lore has long held that the entrance lies under the main altar of a Catholic church built over the ruins.

An international team of archaeologists recently announced that they found evidence for this fabled underground labyrinth under the ruins—right where the legends said it should be—after conducting scans of the site using ground penetrating radar (GPR), electrical resistivity tomography (ERT), and seismic noise tomography (SNT). The team also found evidence of an earlier construction stage of a palace located in another part of the site.

Mitla is one of the most significant archaeological sites in Oaxaca Valley. It was an important religious center, serving as a sacred burial site—hence its name, which derives from Mictlan ("place of the dead" or "underworld"). The unique structures at Mitla feature impressively intricate mosaics and geometric designs on all the tombs, panels, friezes, and walls, made with small polished stone pieces fitted together without using mortar.

Spanish soldiers and Christian missionaries began arriving in the valley in the 1520s, and several mentioned the ruins of Mitla in their accounts. Naturally, they interpreted the underground temple as a site for an "evil spirit" and its "demoniacal servants." Burgoa's writing is the most descriptive, detailing how the Zapotec high priest used the palace of the living and the dead. He marveled at the mosaics and skilled construction of the site. And he specifically mentioned four chambers above the ground and four chambers below the ground.

A little further in the article it says

A stone slab covered the entrance. "Through this door they threw the bodies of the victims of the great lords and chieftains who had fallen in battle," Burgoa wrote. It seems that certain "zealous prelates" decided to explore the underground structures, carrying lighted torches and using ropes as guides to ensure they didn't get lost. They encountered "putrefaction," foul odors, and "poisonous reptiles," among other horrors.

Then, of course, the Spanish built Catholic churches with the rubble from the site, including right on top of the site. Gotta tear down those buildings, they have no business being there. They did that way too often in villages they conquered.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 08:32 PM

An ice dam collapse may have done the Channel scouring. In the spring I used to watch the ice speed down the Niagra River. You could hear it almost a mile away.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 05:56 PM

Re catastrophic flooding: I have in front of me a copy of the April 2017 issue of A&G (News and Reviews in Astronomy and Geophysics), open at an article titled "A megaflood in the English Channel". I can't paraphrase five pages of densely-argued prose here, still less include the illustrations; but the subheading is:

In the 2016 Harold Jeffrey Lecture, Jenny Collier describes the discovery of plunge pools and streamlined islands in the English Channel, the geological consequences of a Pleistocene Brexit.

Doggerland is a different case, and somewhat more recent. This Wikipedia article gives a decent summary of all this, both the gradual and the catastrophic. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 11:29 AM

To the stars and beyond - Have We Found Fragments of a Meteor from Another Star?

The story began in April 2019, when I found what’s thought to be the first known interstellar meteor, hiding in plain sight in publicly accessible data sourced from the U.S. government. Called IM1, this object had burned up in the atmosphere and rained fragments down into the ocean off the coast of Manus Island, Papua New Guinea, five years prior, registering as an anomalously speedy and bright fireball in the sensors of secret spy satellites operated by the U.S. Department of Defense. Working with my then-adviser, the Harvard astrophysicist Avi Loeb, I analyzed the U.S. government data to show how the trajectory and other properties of IM’s fireball were consistent with the meteor having an interstellar origin.

It seemed at first too good to be true; scientists had been searching for interstellar meteors for at least seven decades, and here I was, a sophomore in college sitting in my dorm room, thinking I’d bagged one. And sure enough, there was a catch—but it had nothing to do with my calculations. Because the data came from spy satellites, the U.S. government didn’t publish how precise the measurements were. And without knowing the level of precision, we couldn’t know for sure whether IM1 was truly interstellar, or just a fluke.

It took three years for U.S. government officials to publicly confirm that their satellite data supported our interstellar hypothesis for IM1. While I was waiting, I dreamed of searching the ocean floor for fragments of the object, and to learn more I reached out to the only team to ever go after submarine meteoritic material from an observed meteor fall. It turned out that the mile-deep water at the most likely region where IM1’s debris fell would be advantageous, as the relative inaccessibility of such depths would ensure the fragments remained unperturbed. So once official confirmation arrived, planning for an ocean voyage to 1.3S, 147.6E began in full force.

This sounds like a needle in the haystack, on steroids. They were clever, though - these meteor fragments have iron, so they calculated a path and dragged a magnet through the area.

Who knows what else one might find dropping a magnet into some of the areas where travelers are known to have sailed through millennia ago? (Magnet fishing is actually a favorite pastime of a couple of my Facebook friends; they occasionally post photos of large round heavy duty magnets studded with antique nails and old bottle caps.)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 10:33 AM

Not mesolithic, my mistake.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 10:30 AM

Giant mesolithic hand axesfound in southern England.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/jul/06/giant-handaxes-unearthed-kent

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 10:21 AM

"A catastrophic megaflood separated Britain from France hundreds of thousands of years ago, changing the course of British history."

Utter bollocks. Even if you make a cursory glance at the internet you can find that gradually rising sea levels had reduced "Doggerland" to a series of low lying islands which were then consumed by the sea.

A Tsunami caused by a massive landslide off the coast of Norway MAY had led to a temporary rise in sea levels.

@Although Doggerland was permanently submerged through a gradual rise in sea level, it has been hypothesized that coastal areas of both Britain and mainland Europe, extending over areas which are now submerged, would have been temporarily inundated by a tsunami triggered by the Storegga Slide. This event would have had a catastrophic impact on the Mesolithic population at the time.@ (Wiki)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 09:29 AM

Could be, who knows?
There's something due any day
I will know right away soon as it shows
It may come cannonballing down through the sky
Gleam in its eye, bright as a star
Who knows?
It's only just out of reach
Down the block, on a beach, under a tree
I got a feeling there's a miracle due
Gonna come true, coming real soon
Could it be? Yes, it could
Something's coming, something good
If I can wait
Something's coming and I don't know
What it is but it is gonna be great
With a click, with a shock
Phone'll jingle, door'll knock
Open the latch
Something's coming, don't know when
But it's soon, catch the moon
One handed catch
Around the corner
Or whistling down the river
Come on, deliver to me
Will it be? Yes, it will
Maybe just by holding still
It'll be there
Come on, something, come on in
Don't be shy, meet new sites
Pull up a chair
The air is humming
And something great is coming
I feel that (incomprehensible)
And something great is coming
Who knows?
It's only just out of reach
Down the block, on a beach
Beneath the sea or a deep lake

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 09:00 AM

Be it Roman resorts or Cleopatra's temple complex, they are already deep underwater. For prehistory we are digging in all the wrong places.
Gobleki Tempi has partially excavated only one of the six buried complexes. The largest pyramid on Earth in China has been only minimally explored. I expect bigger surprises are in store.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 07:34 AM

A catastrophic megaflood separated Britain from France hundreds of thousands of years ago, changing the course of British history. For much of our pre-history, a permanent land bridge existed between Britain and France at the Dover Strait. How and when it was removed, however, was previously unknown.

At the end of the last Ice Age the Younger Dryas Event was probably an impact in combination with another great flood from melting ice sheets. There is more than one great flood. Over here the Badlands are the remnants of a great inland flood.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 07:17 AM

Rise in sea level after the end of the last Ice Age, perhaps? I remember rumours that there's archaeology to be found on the bed of the North Sea, and vague memories (not personal) of a Roman settlement somewhere under the sea in the middle of the Isles of Scilly.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 07:12 AM

Regarding the evolution of limestone concrete to the geopolymer silicate based light weight concrete I would wager that the Oculous in Rome has geopolymer cement at the thin top of the dome. Its worth a closer look.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 06:25 AM

What flood?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 06:16 AM

Pre flood civilizations before 20,000 years ago were possibly near ancient coastlines and now underwater.
Anomolies exist like Malta, the Bimini road and the ancient causeway off the west India coast. After the flood many projects sought to build refuge from rising water in mounds, pyramids, and mega structures. If the advanced cultures far ahead of hunter-gatherers were few it would not be surprising that we have not found them underwater. A handful of civic centers are few compared to billions of fossils.

SEEKING THE GOLDEN SPIKE
Even a small lake in Canada holds secrets.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 07:50 PM

Maggie?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

"After a couple million years traces of archeological artifacts should be zero."

Why? We have fossil remains of organisms going back for about three billion years. When I was at university I extracted and studied epidermal cell material from ancient Araucaria species (modern-day equivalents would be monkey puzzle and Norfolk Island pine trees). Not big bones, not petrified stuff: soft leaf tissue from the Jurassic, the real McCoy. So why would you think that archaeological remains made of hard rock would disappear in a couple of million years? That sounds like the seven-stars pete school of mythology...

And not science fiction, Maggie. Just fiction.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jul 23 - 02:37 PM

Surprisingly the Chinese used sticky rice as the ingredient in the stone mortar of the Great Wall.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 06:29 PM

Mesolithic pits found on Houghton Regis building site Archaeologists have discovered up to 25 Mesolithic pits on what has been described as a "nationally important prehistoric site".

The pits, found in Houghton Regis, Bedfordshire, are up to 5m (16ft) wide and 1.85m (6ft) deep.

Animal bones found at the bottom of the pits have been used to identify them as about 8,000 years old.

Prof Joshua Pollard, an expert of British prehistory, described the discovery as "very exciting" (read on)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 02:32 PM

Things like geopolymers are examples of "counter-factual conditionals".... IF "X" was true, "Y" might have been the case. Just speculating that they "would" have explained megalithic curiosities "IF" ancient folks had them is interesting, but actual tests have shown how various 'impossible' stuff was done is in the Erich von Däniken realm.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 07:42 AM

Modern material science is uncovering an origin of some megalithic stones that could have been molded in place. Geopolymer cement stones are becoming a reality again. They account for perfect fit and mass' too heavy to move all at once. what are geopolymer cements?

A chemical method of melting Inca stones together is also a likely possibility chemical stone melting

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 23 - 12:53 PM

Don, there you have the basis for more than one science fiction novel or film.

From the Smithsonian, This Ancient Maya City Was Hidden in the Jungle for More Than 1,000 Years
Archaeologists surveying the ruins of Ocomtún found pyramids, stone columns and a ballgame court

Researchers from Mexico’s National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH) have discovered the remains of a centuries-old Maya city in the Balamkú ecological reserve on the Yucatán Peninsula.

In a statement, lead archaeologist Ivan Šprajc says the settlement probably served as an important regional center during the Maya Classic period, which spanned 250 to 1000 C.E. The team named the newly discovered ruins Ocomtún—“stone column” in Yucatec Mayan—in honor of the many columns found at the site.

“The biggest surprise turned out to be the site located on a ‘peninsula’ of high ground, surrounded by extensive wetlands,” says Šprajc in the statement, per Google Translate. “Its monumental nucleus covers more than [123 acres] and has various large buildings, including several pyramidal structures [nearly 50 feet] high.”

There are lots of links to things mentioned in the topic, and a nice photo of the LIDAR view of the location. (Ever since I learned about LIDAR at a conference in ~ 1999, I figured it was going to appear again and again in reports about the discovery of this kind of archaeological site.)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 23 - 02:43 PM

I'm just musing but...The absence of evidence is not conclusive evidence of absolute absence. After a couple million years traces of archeological artifacts should be zero.
That leaves some big questions unanswered. How do we know we’re the only time there’s been an industrial civilization on our own planet?“
Could we even tell if there had been an industrial civilization [long before this one]. Evidence least seen is beneath today's ocean water.

An Atlantic ridge continent may have existed. Indonesia was a large contiguous area. Even Antarctica was tropical but now the European Space Agency has found evidence of prior continents beneath the ice and ocean. there is also a similar climate pattern to today back in the Pleistocene era.

We don't see any homo sapiens a million years ago but there were other species. We traced human footprints in New Mexico to 21,000 years ago and Africa suggests 70,000 years of habitation and don't get me started on ancient Turkey. Graham Hancock suggests after the last ice age and great flood it seems remnants of another pre-civilization that drowned, built pyramids worldwide with available resources.

200 years ago the question of whether there might be a civilization on Mars was a legitimate one, But once the pictures came out from interplanetary probes, that was settled for good. And that view became ingrained, so now it’s not a valid topic for scientific inquiry; it’s considered ridiculous. But no one’s ever put the actual scientific limits on it—on what may have happened a VERY long time ago.

Roman history is only yesterday.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Jun 23 - 06:48 AM

Ancient Aboriginal underwater site in Flying Foam Passage thought to be deepest in Australia In 2019, scientists from Flinders University discovered hundreds of ancient stone tools and grinding stones at the underwater site of Cape Bruguieres, off the Pilbara coast.

A second underwater site was also discovered at the nearby Flying Foam Passage, but only one artefact was found at the 8,500-year-old fresh spring.

But the recent discovery of four more ancient stone artefacts in the passage has given scientists the confidence to confirm its status as an ancient site (read on)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 23 - 06:24 PM

There is evidence ancient Egyptians sailed to Australia.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jun 23 - 05:12 PM

The stolen head A high school in regional Australia holds ancient human remains, which are a long way from home.
Inside Grafton High School — among the books and computers of the school library — there’s a box that has fascinated and perplexed generations of locals. Because inside this box, there’s an Egyptian mummified head. It’s not exactly clear how this head journeyed from Egypt to Grafton. And there are far bigger questions posed by these ancient human remains.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 05:08 PM

Step aside Latin, Sanskrit is it.

I must have been exposed to Coptic at some point.
btW Ethiopian sounds absolutely beautiful and totally different.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 04:56 PM

One of the most difficult undergraduate courses I took had the benign name "The History and Development of the English Language." You'd think if you speak it the course would be easy. Nope. One lecture included a discussion of the fragments of ancient Sanskrit that are peppered through European languages and are more prominent in languages spoken in India.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 12:41 PM

I was in a waiting room for a couple of hours last week. I overheard an Ethiopian gentleman on his phone and immediately equated his language with ancient Egyptian. Days later I googled this...
Ancient Ethiopian was spoken down to 1600 A. D., when it broke up into the modern dialects. These modern dialects are still the most primitive Semitic languages, and the closest thing existing to ancient Egyptian, Egyptian's direct descendant, Coptic, having become extinct.

Weird huh?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 23 - 12:30 AM

Their theories are certainly all over the place about how that text came to be there. It's almost silly to try - it is what it is.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jun 23 - 06:49 PM

Virgil quote found on fragment of Roman jar unearthed in Spain Excerpt from the Georgics was carved into vessel used for olive oil 1,800 years ago

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 10:09 AM

*Disagree*: istr reading about Neanderthals making toys for their children, and possibly being earlier than hom sap in producing certain sorts of artwork*, both of which suggest empathy. This "other => inferior" mindset is well attested, from ancient (and modern) racism up to MAGA, and is often a dominant driver for warfare and genocide.

Required reading: Asimov's essay "Nice Guys Finish First!" (exclamation mark in original), where he argues that he's being not-nasty out of pure self-interest, because co-operation and circumspection are vital for the long-term continuance of hom sap as a species. It's the last essay in The Sun Shines Bright.

* I originally had "musical instruments", but that might be a false memory.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 08:44 AM

opinion:
As different as the Naldi homo species was from the Neanderthal, the Neanderthal was probably different from us. We may have viewed them as wildmen. 80% of Homo Sapiens possess the cooperative trait of empathy.
My hypothesis within the theory of Survival of the most cooperative is that Neanderthals were without empathy which made them by our definition psychopaths. Empathy is a nascent trait as is narcissistic psychopathy.
Prison populations contain over 30% psychopaths. Evolution may diminish that trait over time. Brain size is not the issue but the nature of the brain is most crucial. 20% of the current population are psychopaths may sound high but psychopaths in suits are a real problem. It is not an accident that Trump's base is also 20$.