Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance

Subject: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Homeless
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 09:10 AM

Are there any musicians out there who have played for contra dances and can give me some background info on what I'd need to know to play?

There is a local contra dance group who is always looking for bands. I've got a fella who is a beginning/intermediate fiddler, a guy that plays tin whistle, and I can cover either guitar or banjo. None of us have ever played in front of a mic. All of the local experienced musicians "have better things to do" than tutor the lot of us (or even any of us individually).

I know we need around 20 tunes. I know we'll have to play the same tune for up to 15 minutes at a stretch. I know we have to keep a constant tempo throughout the entire song. What other things are important to know when playing for a dance?

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 11:28 AM

We played a weekly contradance for years. I used to tell prospective players that endurance is more important than talent is to play a contradance. I think the most important features are the ability to play up to speed and to keep a steady beat. Medleys, along with the ability of the lead to change tunes midstream, can come along later but since an individual dance can last a long time, the ability to switch tunes and keys help rest the backup's hands so the ability is worth pursuing. I remember one dance that lasted 23 minutes AFTER I started timing it. The length of the individual dance is dependent on whether the caller has room to split a long line into a shorter line, since the usual dance continues until the original couple is back in its original position. Does this help?

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Homeless
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:10 PM

It helps somewhat. Am I right in believing that in your opinion endurance is the main thing that beginners should focus on? Followed by metronome like reliability, and then speed? How I run the practices and what we work on will depend on the priority of those three items.

How much of a rest does the 20 minute break give (in a 7:30-11:00 dance)? Is it enough to get rested and re-charged, or only work the stiffness out of your hands and go take a leak?

Am I correct in believing that jigs are easier for beginners than reels? (3 notes per beat as opposed to 4) Do you have any suggestions on songs for youngsters to start on (my fiddler is 12, whistle player is 15). I've got them doing "Late for the Dance" and "Liza Jane" but their both asking for more already.

I've contradanced for years, but have always kept my full attention on my partner(s), and never noticed how long an individual dance lasts, nor how many are done in a night. The dance here is only monthly, and we rarely get over 10 fours in a line on a regular night, thus keeping the dances short.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:27 PM

I'm not a musician, but I'm married to one who has played a regular monthly contra-dance gig for several years. Here are a few things I've picked up from observation.

The group probably has a large collection of tapes. Borrow them in order to learn the tunes. Talk to the callers to find out what tunes are most in demand. If you read music, talk to the musicians who have played for the dancers before. They probably have a large collection of photocopied tunes. Borrow them and make your own copies.

Dancers are VERY forgiving of your musical shortcomings. They're usually so absorbed in their dancing they won't notice your mistakes. They're probably happy and excited to be able to dance to real musicians instead of tapes. Rhythm and endurance are more important than musical accuracy. Playing for dancers is a good way to get a LOT of practice. It's also a good way to get to sit in with more experienced musicians.

Pay attention to the caller, especially if he's teaching a new dance, or new dancers. He may ask you to stop and start a lot, or change the tempo.

It's a good idea to have someone who plays piano or electronic keyboard. They can set the rhythm by pounding out the bass notes. (Which reminds me: I've always thought "Boom Chicks" would be a great name for an all-female contra dance band. Any takers?)

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Duffy Keith
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:33 PM

Hi Homeless, I play in a contra dance band in the Denver, colorado area called "plays well with others",and basically, you need to coordinate with your dance caller as to what he wants played for his dances, as the caller is kind of the leader of the whole thing...he will tell you what type of dance, how long to play etc...he gives signals to the band from the floor as to what he wants...the meter of the tunes that you play must correspond with his dance, and many times he (or she) will make up their own dances...It is a great deal of fun for everyone involved...you can look at the "Colorado Friends of old time music and dance" website also for other info...try cfootmad.org...if that doesnt get you there, write back and i'll find it for you...DK

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Duffy Keith
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:42 PM

Hi again Homeless, For the contra website try http://www.csn.net/~jared/contra.html.....DK

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:53 PM

If you're playing Late for the Dance, you're doing pretty well. Its rhythm is not an easy one, IMHO. Note-y tunes are harder to bring to speed. The standards -possibly regional- for beginning bands are probably tunes like Soldiers Joy, Old French, St. Annes Reel, La Bastringue, Liberty, Robertsons Reel, there are lots more but my mind's gone blank. For Irish/Scottish tunes, Flowers of Edinburgh, Colored Aristocracy, Come Dance and Sing, are all popular. Kesh Jig, Off She Goes, Cowboy Jig- are all easy jigs.

Traditionally, two waltzes are played- signalling the break and again at the end. In addition we played a half hour of waltzes before the contradance itself began. As you know, there are many beautiful waltzes.

As for resting in the 20 minute break, keep in mind that the adrenalin is pumping. On a good night,you'll be straining toward the beginning of the next set.

This has gotten too long. I'll break it now and continue.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,BeauDangles
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:59 PM

Hi Homeless,

I have been a contra dancer since 1993, and have had occassion to play for a few dances, and even to call once during a showcase night. First of all, all of these skills feed into each other. Being a musician makes me a better dancer and caller, being a dancer makes me a better musician, etc. Before I started playing for dancers, I made a conscious decision to pay more attention to the musicians and caller when dancing. I even would sit out and watch the muscicians and how they interacted with each other, and with the caller. I made note of tune choices (i.e. both what tunes were being played and what types of tunes were being played, as well as how they were strung together); I listened for how long each tune was played before moving on, as well as how long one particular dance would go on. I listened to tempo. Basically I watched and listened and tried to incorporate what I noticed into my playing.

First of all, God is in the downbeat. As someone has already said, contradancers are very forgiving folk. They don't mind the occassional musical gaff, as long as you maintain a steady, and audible tempo. Thus, the very real need for a piano, bass, or a good percussionist. When the tempos goes, dancers begin to lose focus and get frustrated. BTW, a tempo of between 120 and 130 beats per minute is the usual choice in my community. And that shouldn't change whether you are playing jigs or reels. By beats, we usually mean foot taps. With reels, each foot tap holds four notes. With jigs each pulse has three notes. Therefore the perception is that they are easier for the beginner; they feel slower. In some ways though, they are harder because of the down-up-down, up-down-up kind of rhythm they need. My advise don't pick one type of tune and stick to it. A good evening of dances, as well as a good set of tunes has variety. Have a good mixture of medleys to chose from and work with your caller. Some types of dances work well with the driving flow of a set of reels, while others need more of a skippy rhythm that jigs provide.

In our community, 99.9% of our musicians construct medleys. I for one can only take so much of one tune, as a musician or as a dancer. I crave variety. I have found that one contra dance can easily sustain between 3 and 5 tunes. There are a coupl of schools of thought on medleys. One choose tunes that are similar and flow nicely into each other. This is helpful when you need a particular kind of phrase for say a balance and swing at the same time in each tune. On the other hand, it is musically exciting when there is contrast between the tunes. Good choices here are: moving from jigs to reels (one of my favorites); moving from major to minor, or minor to major; a combination of both of those.

I need to stop now. If I think of more I will post it.

Good luck

BeauD

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 01:11 PM

In our case, only our fiddler worked from tapes. He kept us learning new tunes at practice every week until our repertoire got very large. Along the way we mostly dropped the tunes we had begun with.

I agree with Jim Dixon- what dancers respond to is the rhythm, far more so than to whether the tune is pretty or even accurate. I remember years ago when I still took it for granted that the backup was there to follow the lead, so if they played faster, I did too- but not so- the lead relies on the backup to keep the rhythm steady. At a dance it is essential that the backup realizes this.

We also used a piano a lot and then later a bass. I prefer a bass but either one will do. No, for me jigs are not easier than reels. Boom chick is a very natural rhythm.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Homeless
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 01:41 PM

Maybe I'm just strange then, but I've always found jig and hornpipe (and even a William Tell-ish three notes then rest) rhythms infitinely easier to do than a straight 1-2-3-4. With one finger on one piano key trying to keep a straight quarternote beat I always degenerate into a hornpipe - bump, ba-bump, ba-bump - which I can hold for half of forever consistantly. I can't play Soldier's Joy to save my life because of this. Not for any length of time anyway. On the other hand, I find Late for the Dance fairly easy because it's mostly quarter notes, so it feels slower than a lot of eighth notes.

I wish I could talk more with the bands and callers, but we have different people every month, and many of them show up only 5 minutes before the dance is supposed to start, and leave as soon as it is over.

I've got a beginning fiddler and whistle(er?)(ist?). I can play either guitar (chords for rhythm), banjo (three finger, clawhammer, or chorded), or bass. Which would be best? If all we needed is a 1-5-1-5 I could do that on the banjo with a (slow) bluegrass alternating thumb roll, which would keep me in a position to help the other two if needed, i.e. switching to clawhammer and playing melody if they get lost or tired.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 02:42 PM

As a guitarist, I would have to say that if you have to choose amongst those instruments, a guitar backup for fiddle and whistle (I like whistleist!)would be best for the sound, but I can imagine a bass behind fiddle/whistle would be a neat, if different, kind of sound. Or, for that matter, chorded banjo. If you can give the caller and dancers what they want, they'll accept a unique sound. For awhile we had 2 flutes playing with us and we loved it.

One cautionary note: if you break a string in the middle of the tune and you're playing guitar, don't stop! I did once and the whole thing came crashing down on me. I hadn't realized how reliant they were on the rhythm.

If playing jigs comes easy to you, that's a great talent. I've got only a drop of Irish in me- maybe I need more!

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 03:05 PM

Homeless -- you don't mention if you're playing through a sound system or acoustically. If you don't have a sound system, I'd go for the bass - the volume and pulse of only three instruments can get quickly lost in a hall with dancers' feet shuffling and a caller barking out commands. The beat of a bass can usually be heard above a guitar or banjo. Also be aware that some callers have certain dances associated with specific tunes -- if they ask for "Soldiers Joy" or "Sailors Hornpipe" (or whatever) you either have to know the tune or be able to quickly negotiate a suitable substitute.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 03:24 PM

How true, Les B. The first 2 years we played without a sound system- I remember in one hall we actually played in the middle of the room with the dancers to either side of us so we could hear and be heard. On the other hand, in those years we learned to REALLY listen. Ah, well, it's all fun.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Ely
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 03:38 PM

I think the jigs being easier question depends on what instrument you play and what you're used to in your normal repertoire. I _hate_ jig rhythm on the guitar. The band the I played with was actually better-suited to square dances and used to playing mostly American midwestern fiddle and banjo tunes and dreaded being asked to play jigs. We could do it, but none of us liked it. We also didn't like being asked to play medleys, but that's common in contradancing and is more fun if you can coordinate it.

Our requirements were pretty standard 1) steady, audible rhythm (bass, piano, stomping, whatever it took), 2) not too insanely fast, since we had to keep it up forever, 3) we tried not to choose extremely intricate tunes because they tired our hands out faster [probably not a problem for more skilled musicians with healthier wrists]--sometimes the break was enough to refresh us and sometimes it wasn't, 4) the caller probably won't want you to play crooked tunes--they work OK for squares but I'm told they don't for contras.

But yes, our dancers have always been forgiving

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 03:43 PM

One more thought-- Really good musicians tend to get bored while playing for contra dances, and they know it's pointless to be a perfectionist, so they look for other ways to make it interesting. They're always looking for new tunes, new arrangements, new medleys, new musicians to sit in with them, and especially new instruments. So don't assume that better musicians "have better things to do" than to help you out, unless you've asked them-- and even if they do, you can always ask someone else.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 03:50 PM

Well you'd have to have everyone dressed in battle fatigues...with Daniel Ortega playing lead and singing La Bamba, and perhaps Oliver North sabatoging the sound.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: Homeless
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 04:24 PM

We'd be playing amplified. The barn has a good sound system, and pretty decent sound people. In the past they've used all acoustic instruments and miked them, but lately there's been a trend towards pickups on the instruments.

There really isn't much immediately local talent to tap as tutors, and I've asked them, but they're too busy. We usually have a band come down from Chicago, which is a 50-90 minute drive depending which side they come from. So they're usually wanting to leave right away when the dance is over - not leaving much opportunity to talk or give quick lessons. And trying to take a couple of school kids that far on a weeknight is out of the question. So I've tapped into a world-wide resource and hope I can bluff my way thru with just good advice taking the place of experience.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 04:55 PM

A few pointers I would suggest is that while the caller is teaching the dance the band should remain quiet ie. no noodling of practicing tunes which can distract the dancers. Additionally, peoples attention span is often short (esp beginners) so the band should be ready to play as soon as the caller is finished with instructions.

Whatever you do never stop in the middle of the dance, at least keep the rhythm going. I once joined a fiddle player at a contra dance and when he changed tunes I tried to figure out the melody (it was all over the place). It turns out he forgot the tune and was searching all over for it but kept the dance going until he got it.

Ive played for Scottish Country dances, ceilis and contra (the last two not that much) and Ive found that the most important parts of the music are a clean & strong start and finish. Clean transitions between tunes are important so you should start preparing for them as youre on the last few bars of the ending tune.

Good contra dance bands, will often do things like dropping out for a bar(at a certain part of the melody) and just play rhythm which often gets the dancers going even more as they fill in the music in their heads.

Also its keep it down the 2nd to last time through and really go strong the last time. or throw in a great dance tune just before the break. Its hard to say exactly which tunes are the best for dancing but the dancers can tell you or you can tell by just watching them. Tunes that have a good strong rhythm usually, heavily ornamented tunes often dont work as you cant put in the ornaments anyway. Its good to keep the tempo steady and not speed up or slow down, (usually slowing down is not the problem). Have a couple waltzes for the end. Ive found that a good waltz tempo is hard (so I have to get up and move around on stage) I have been told that beginners find faster waltzes easier to dance to. Anyway keep in mind you have a captive audience, and have lfun. To me most of traditional folk music is really about dance so its good to have that connection. Petr.

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: GUEST,BeauDangles
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 05:16 PM

Another pointer:

Don't tackle the band after the dance or before the dance. As you have said, they either have too much on their minds getting ready, or need to pack up and go. So here's what I suggest. First of all, it never hurts for you to show up early and help set up for the dance. Some dances give you a discount or will let you in for free if you help, which is no bad thing. But if you are available early, you can help the band set up, carry their gear in for them, intruduce them to the other organizers of the dance. this is a great opportunity to introduce yourself, and maybe let on that you are eager to play for dances. I have found that about half of the musicians I speak to are friendly and receptive to this, and the rest are mostly neutral. I have never had anyone snub me or be critical of me. Just be confident and rememebr that they have a lot on their mind at the moment. This interaction also opens up another oppportunity, especially if you build up a commeraderie with some of your regular musicians. Some are okay with you sitting in with the band, as long as you don't use a mike and play along quietly. This helps you to learn how it feels to actually play for the dances without actually having to risk messing up badly. No pressure. Plus, you don't have to do it all night. You can take a break and dance, or dance most of the night and sit out just a few dances and play along. This also lets them hear your playing.

Oh yeah, also find out where the local sessions are and try to play there. That is how a lot of musicians network.

Hope this os of some help.

BeauD

Subject: RE: Help: Tips on playing for a Contra dance
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 10 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM

I was going to ask where you are; if you had been in hollering distance I would recommend that you get Phil and Vivian Williams to come and do their workshop on this very topic. Their tapes include a lot of contrad dance-type music.

It sounds like you are not as beginning as you think. People have mentioned needing as bass or keyboard for rhythm; it's hard to have too many rhythm guitars either. And the band leader does need to coordinate with the caller, with clear pre-established signals for the other players.

try to get photocopies of other bands' medleys. I have one book from the Portland (OR) area but I don't have it here.

You do need someone to play lead, usually fiddle, and you say your fiddler is a beginner. Can he/she carry the tune? If the fiddler/harmonica player/mandolinist keeps the tune going everyone else can follow on photocopies or just use chord charts of the song eg:

G for 2/C for 4/D for 2/ etc.

Hope this helps. Great thread.

MA