BS: compassion or honesty

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: MK
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:10 PM

I've never known you not to be vocal about anything on this forum Kat. *BG*

But majority? Hmmmm.....have to think on that one for a spell.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:22 PM

Well, I wasn't referring to m'self. *BG*

As to majority...I guess I mean the majority of those who are being attacked, both in general and singley, by one who hides behind anonymity. It is difficult to respect anyone who doesn't have the guts to own up to who they are.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:30 PM

Rick, sorry I'll miss it! You can always tape it and send it to Max. (You gots da music to that waltz someplace?)

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:31 PM

Kat,...and here we thought becoming an actual member would make you happy?...

Tsk tsk tsk...there's just no pleasing some people.

B.T.W....Jeri, since you have confessed to having no delusions of adequacy there is no further action required on our part.

It is only those with over-blown egos, and miniscule talent (the word talent being utilized very loosely) that incurr our wrath.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST,Miss Emily Fishlap Weezleburn
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:16 PM

You kids play nice, or get out of the sandbox. Use honesty or compassion or both, just make sure nobody gets hurt. I brought my bongos, who wants to jam?

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:34 PM

Jeri. As TTCM has pointed out, we are not really getting at you, so I wonder why you are attracting response. As I have said (it seems this forum thrives on repetition), there are those who are not attracting our attention because they are more concerned with things musical and helping others.

The Song database here is one thing, but the actual databases inside some of the contributors heads make this place really special. It is good for everyone when these sources are utilized. They are dropping away, though. There have been several usages of the phrases 'Them and Us'; "are you with us or against us?" and the likes bandied around this forum.

Musicians, serious talented musicians with a world of knowledge, have left this place because of such clique-ness. The music world is relatively small, and people talk. And people have.
So, there you have it, a bit of honesty. Incredibly talented people in their fields have not even bothered to lurk any more. The trouble with some of you is that you think this place belongs to you, and there is nobody else out there worh considering much unless you have 'welcomed' them as a new member.

Why on God's earth would anyone of any real musical value want to join up, let alone under his/her own name, only to be 'welcomed', and spammed with nonsensical shite by people whose biggest failing in life is this fatal need to accept, and be accepted. That is what people of little inner worth do. And unfortunately, as the LafKat has said the majority has spoken. All I can say is

SHAME.

Really want to know who I am?
Chances are, considering of course you are a 'Folk music' afficianado, you've probably got one of my albums/CDs sitting over on your rack over there.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: The Beanster
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:02 PM

There are some people who make anonymous crank phone calls and some people who make anonymous nasty posts. These are the acts of either children or cowards.

Harpgirl stated her opinion and didn't hide behind her mother's skirt, like the responsible, mature person she obviously is, no matter if one agrees with her or not.

What I find amusing about the anonymous posts is the constant use of "we" and its variations by the, obviously, solitary writer of such posts. This arrogant assumption of speaking for the majority without of course, consulting anyone at all is either the product of extreme narcissism or perhaps, delusion. Either way, as far as I'm concerned, it's an interesting thing to observe in action. But I just can't resist--TTCM, if you are the silent majority, why are you not silent?

On a more neighborly note, Amos, regarding your post (far, far above), I think if you tell your spouse you have had a "fling" after it is over and done with, you are merely attempting to alleviate your own guilt by "confessing" and in the process, hurting your spouse once again. The fling is being selfish one time. To tell your spouse about the fling is being selfish two times. So I do not think that honesty is always the best policy. Of course, the remedy here is, don't cheat in the first place. Just my opinion. ...stepping down off my pedestal now...

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:03 PM

Really? That's funny, because in general I like music that has some guts, a quality that you seem to be notably lacking in.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:05 PM

What the hell is a beanster anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:02 AM

What makes you think I have no guts Lej?
What difference does it make if my name is Fred Boggs, or Joe Soap or Paul Brady, or Mark Knopfler? Or anyone else for that matter?

What makes you think, given the present state of things here, that I actually want to tell you who I am?

Where do you get off in your arrogance?

People who know me, know me. I don't come here to laud or be lauded.
Another thing that makes this place special is that Joe Soap and Paul Brady could potentially get together here. Membership of this forum is voluntary, which, in the greatest spirit of freedom, also protects your right to privacy.

My world does not center around the things that your's does, Lej, and to be honest, 'Lonesome EJ' gives me no more idea as to your identity as 'Another conscience....' would do as to mine. If not, why not be like Rick Fielding or Mark Cohen (names only used as examples), and not have any cards left not shown. You do what you want, of course. That is also your right.

Politeness does not come with membership, and a 'proper' handle. There is nothing any more cowardly about my contributions because I dont sign as 'Filbert Bogsworthy' or something, but rather as 'Another...'. This is cyberspace Lej. Wake up! I'm not your next door neighbor. Our lives may never entwine.

It's not real.

Like I mean during those healing threads, I was waiting for some virtual doorbell to ring while some virtual delivery boy brought a virtual pizza. And a gluten-free one at that!

All very good case history material for sociologists and shrinks, but as a friend of mine told me at Christmas: "It's a nice wee place, but there's a crowd of wasters hanging around the door."

All I want is for this place to stop becoming the Soap opera that it has been in danger of turning into.

We are many, I'm sorry to burst your little cyber bubble, but I know for a fact that I am not _gargoyle, TTCM, or others who I do recognize. That is another example of sand head-burying in this place. I don't think you understand the amount of dissatisfaction there is among the WIDER musical community who frequent this place from time to time.

I have guts Lej. I have done what I have done over a long number of years. And I have succeeded. And I don't think that I have to look to you for acceptance here. So don't judge me. You don't have that right.

My criticism, however, about how the state this forum finds itself from time to time, is a valid one, and is just as valid had a member with a 'proper handle' made it.

It is a sad fact about the world today that when someone stands up and says "I protest", he/she is made out to be worse than a criminal. Some of you guys are still lost in a McCarthy timewarp. There'll be more book burning yet!

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:50 AM

The facts are,"another", that whoever and whatever I am outside this forum, I have contibuted and commented as honestly as I know how among the people who participate in these conversations. Through these comments, most have come to know who I am, and what I believe in. And I stand on those beliefs whether you or anyone else thinks they are right or wrong, and what's more will defend them if they are challenged. I am happy to argue any specific point you may disagree with me on. If you have read any of my posts I believe that you will see that I attempt to treat others here with RESPECT, and with concern and humor. I have rarely resorted to name-calling, which seems to be the stock-in-trade of the "conscience clique."

As for the other "clique" of regular contributors- I know of no other in-group that welcomes new people as readily,or is as helpful to those seeking information. I also know of none of them that adopt a holier-than-thou, "You're-probably-already-one-of-my-fans" attitude like the one you flaunted above. It's been said at least a thousand times : If you don't like the bullshit IGNORE IT. But don't come riding in with your shotgun and your "anonymous" disguise taking pot-shots at people who have posted their thoughts, feelings, names, and photographs for the sake of honest communication.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:28 AM

There you go judging again Lej. I don't have this "You're-probably..." anything attitude. It is true that perhaps you may own something that I have recorded, then again, perhaps you don't.
And again I say I have the right to remain behind my handle. Am I to be criticized because you cannot see my photograph over at bbc's. Is there a 'because you're not a member, you're not entitled to voice your opinion' policy among some members. And if there is, who gave you that right.
Because I haven't 'joined' (I will remind you that I have been having excellent conversations on this forum since before you arrived),it is no less honest and from my heart as I sure yours is.

We have discussed things on the same thread before; you didn't know who I was then, why should you be so interested now?

Honesty and compassion, eh? The truth hurts sometimes, but without it, we find ourselves in that state which is the direct opposite of paranoia. That of the belief that everything is fine. Which is, of course, just as dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:34 AM

Jeezus H! I've been "named" as someone who shows all their cards! (so who the hell is Mark Cohen?) Certainly not ALL. I have been pretty up front about my lack of formal education, annoyance at people who won't get in tune, hard-line approach to those who expect something from folk music without a substantial "investment", and how my discovery of Mudcat a year and a half ago, was a major positive in my life. The only "philosopher" who's had any major impact on my everyday behaviour has been Quentin Crisp, who advocated that folks be as open with strangers as with friends.("They can't ever blackmail you then") he said, and that strikes me a s true..and desirable. I've gotten into trouble at times by being one of the "not just music" people, and again by asking to be removed from the private lists of two "opposing groups". Simply, I ain't on the "side of ANY group". Just not a "group" kind of guy. 'Cause that implies that you should support them blindly out of loyalty even when one or some of them act like dorks. Sorry, I'd rather have the freedom to call a "dork" a "dork". Been one myself many a time, so I know how easy it is to qualify. Of course I always sign my name..I've never advocated bombing "BSers" or "traddies" back to the stone age. I just can't get angry enough at a "hobby pursuit" to lose sleep over it. I think quite a few do though, and I think that's fascinating.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:41 AM

Rick, Mark Cohen is a Mudcatter pediatrician who lives in Hawaii. Great person.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:00 PM

...so why don't you go visit him Kat?...We'll raise the necessary funds in the Mudcat auction, and send you on your way...



The kicker is though, that you can't touch a computer while in Hawaii and you have to stay a minimum of 3 months. Guess this would preclude your visit huh?

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:09 PM

My Dearest Rick
Apologies to you and Mark for any embarassment caused, as there was no intention to do so. The 'cards' I spoke of referred only to the fact that you use your real name.

That is fair enough, is your choice, and your right. That, doesn't inherently align you to 'one side or the other', it just merely indicates a willingness to reveal your identity.

I don't expect you to get embroiled in this debate, knowing as I do your preference to discuss more appropriate subject matter. That is fine and honourable.
I think you know, however, that the only time you see such 'handles' as the one above, is when aforementioned nonsensical shite gets beyond the pain threshold.

It is all very well to say ignore the threads that offend you, but unfortunately it happens not only in the BS threads. The manicness all this BS generates spreads into music related threads, and corrupts them. It therefore is impossible to ignore all BS related content, for it rears it's ugly head in the serious stuff.
One minute we are discussing the relative joys, or otherwise, of D'Addario vs Black Diamond, or whatever. The next thing happens is that the children come into play and want to tell you how a possum would tackle the problem.

It's not just the BS; they infect the whole place.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:15 PM

So... God hates children now? when the spirit of a child comes over to play you... bludgeon it!! Oh, OK!! That's fine, I get it now!

Unless they pay their full cover charge and are unable to make the slightest noise?

"Children!!!! How many TIMES do I have to TELL you not to BREATHE in public!!!

"For shame!!!!!"

Consciences, believe me-- if this is how YOU grew up, I am so sorry. It should never be so.

~Prays~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:15 PM

...agreed....and all collective ''Consciences'' are working on a vaccine, even as we speak.

We'll be testing it shortly on Katlaughing and a few others to see if in fact they will actually turn into possims.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:22 PM

There you go yet again Praise bringing God into the equation.


You personify the old catch phrase made famous by Cheech and Chong years ago ''I used to be all messed up on drugs, but since I got religion, now I'm all messed up on the Lord''. One placebo replacing another, for a lack of emotional grounding in your life.


You want to preach? Fine. Do it at your Church or in your garage, or in the shower. This is a multi-denominational Forum, and alot of us resent the God factor being brought into any discussion on this Forum. It is wholly irrelevant to Mudcat.

On this point, MANY here are in total agreement, regardless of what they think of any of our other commentaries.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:24 PM

(loading syringe and swabbing Praise's arm...)

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:27 PM

It would appear from the first trials that the vaccine is more effective if administered into the buttocks.



.....sorry Praise......

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:27 PM

TTCM,

Howling a bit in rage now are you?

To you in particular I can say, Jesus is Lord, especially of you. You will see how He handles such.

~PRAYS~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:32 PM

Most children I know have the intelligence to discern when the conversation gets over their heads. They normally go and play ball with their friends somewhere, and let the grown-ups alone. Any other behavior is blatant bad manners, and Praise, good God-fearing mother that she is, would not tolerate any such un-Christian actions in any child of hers.

Good to see you agree, Praise.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:34 PM

The only howling we hear seems to be eminating from you Praise....oh and by the way, silver bullets and knives have no effect either...but hey, if you want to work up a rain, fire or dragon dance while you're at it...go for it. Those are at least somewhat musical.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:40 PM

I think it is more likely that I would not take them where it has been advertised that the shite will be thrown FROM the stage, not AT it.

But they would be encouraged to make their own response if they did find themselves in such a situation, guided of course by their True Conscience.

And since most children-- especially you dear Consciences-- are capable of much more loving and kindness than adults, no doubt their response of love and compassion and play would put their very human Christian mother to shame.

However I am not anyone's mother here-- and children will go where they will.

Perhaps you had missed hearing your invitation to play???????

~PRAYS!~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:43 PM

HIDE!!

I feel a 'healing thread' coming on

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:44 PM

TTCM,

Oh that is not howling dear one.

That is rebuking with calm power in Jesus Name. And a chuckle of praise or two as well.

I only wish I could stay online long enough to close all the cracks you ooze in through, but that is not my place here.

I'll be delighted to continue later, however, should you care to engage further.

~ P R A Y S ~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:46 PM

We'd suggest shutting off your computer for a while Praise, (as you morph into a possim), then eating that coffee-flavored laxative on the table beside you.

Then while on the lu, listen for HIS voice, and await further instructions.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:47 PM

There is no need for a healing thread when the Healer Himself is everywhere.

Perhaps He will assist you directly, dear consciences...

For that I shall pray this day.

~PRAYS PRAISE~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: The Beanster
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:51 PM

Like two co-dependent mosquitos, Praise, shoo 'em away.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:59 PM

Beanster--

I could, but not in my own name. However they would only be invited back. I rebuke in a humble effort in my own small and imperfect way to draw the persons under the shite back to themselves...

But alas, they are as far from themselves as a pig from the moon.

Could be a loooong trip back from where they are, and first they'll have to want to come.

All just another day, another Christian.

Praise the Lord!

~PRAISE PRAYS~

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: The Beanster
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:07 PM

Praise, I just mean, these are clearly miserable people whose only way to try to relieve their own pain (real or imagined) is to try to hurt others. You can't save this type although I know your intentions are well-placed. Don't let them rattle your cage.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, The Thread Watcher
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:12 PM

There you go with your virtual fly swat and associated playthings. Grow up Beano, get a life, get real friends, go and virtually help Praise virtually do something. But if your constructivity only stretches to looking into a sad little screen, making sad little comments, and getting those sad little butterflies everytime the thread refreshes, well then a good dose of of that very real syringe that TTCM speaks of may be what you life misses.

Make sure it goes in good and deep, now.
How's the old movements there Praise?

Oh!!, somebody close that virtual bathroom door.
Beanster?....there's a good lad

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: The Beanster
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:15 PM

Hit a nerve, did I, Thread?

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:23 PM

And I'm not miserable, Beanster. Far from it, in fact.

It is refreshing to see other musicians come to air their grieviences concerning the high bullshit content.

I did say, some posts back, that We are many. However there are some selective memories around here.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: wildlone
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:32 PM

The only shit around here is coming from the anal retentive minds of people like you ac

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Another conscience....
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:38 PM

Now, now, Wildlone. Back to the jungle bars with you, and don't scrape your knees. You know how your mother and me worry so.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:17 PM

...This is for you Praise. I find your "in your face" Christian evangelism extremely offensive. You told me privately you wouldn't be near a computer this weekend. Was that a lie? I am disgusted by the fact that you are compulsively posting irrelevant chit chat everywhere along with the rest of the monopolizers. This is the issue I am pissed off about. I can't stand this self-righteous moralism anymore. You people are ruining this forum, in my opinion!

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST, Environmentalist
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:32 PM

Way to go Harpgirl!!

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: MK
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:36 PM

Cool Harpgirl.

Kind of gives a new meaning to the song:

All Along The Watchtower.

8-)

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:48 PM

She can't hear you Harpgirl.

She is currently wallowing on all fours in the middle of the road, with excrement flying in all directions, while mentally reciting the Lord's prayer in Sanskrit, and waiting for Catspaw's truck to incarnate her into road-kill.


The vaccine has proven effective, at least temporarily.

Subject: Please - No Sectarianism Here
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:27 PM

I guess I ought to say something here, even though I hate joining in on the nasty discussions. I guess by now many of you have figured out that I am a Christian, abeit one of the socialist, feminist, pro-choice, prolife, pacifist, liberal, dissident Catholic variety. I probably adhere to a couple dozen other seemingly-contradictory "isms" if I'd take the time to think of it, but this list is enough for now - basically, I think my own thoughts. Whatever the case, the main point is that I am a Christian, and my faith is a very important part of my life.
Nonetheless, I believe very strongly that religious sectarianism - Christian, pagan, or whatever - is something that has no place here. It serves to distract and divide us. If you want to preach, do it somewhere else. If you want to share your own ideas with us, we're all here to listen.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Caitrin
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:43 PM

I'd have to agree, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:56 PM

Thanks for that, Joe.

We've always considered you an honorable man as well as a few others (male and female) around here.


Having said that, care to give us a hand dispencing the rest of the vaccines?

We're still anxious to increase the marsupial population around here at the expense of the humanoid one.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:15 PM

I am no fan of "in-your-face" Christianity, myself. But I find it far less offensive than the kind of personal attacks being launched by TTCM. Joe and Harpgirl...do you really want to play on his team?

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:28 PM

ANYTHING

 which detracts from the lime light that the current power users here crave,
we are overwhelmingnly in favor of.

Face it, over coffee with fellow Mudcaters, emails between friends, personal messages on the forum back and forth, what are the more interesting and entertaining things to discuss?

-  the last 50 postings from Lafkat, Sorcha, Praise, MBO, etc.?

- the last 50 postings attributed to us, and our collective?

- the last 50 lyrics posted?


This place is habitually boring, and needs a little bit of adrenaline and comic relief injected into it...

Disagree?


Okay make Shambles your host and MC...but have plenty of Wagner playing in the background, to compliment the tone he'll surely set.

We're doing the rest of you a huge favor and you're too dim to appreciate it, save for an enlightened few.



TTCM
--doing what we can to increase the marsupial population--

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: The Beanster
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:49 PM

As someone who is religion-free and is light-years away from being a Christian, I too, find moralistic bible-thumpers, koran-thumpers, etc., highly offensive (let alone, dangerous, at times). But I agree with EJ that making snide, contemptuous, hateful remarks just to satisfy an insatiable hunger for negative attention is far more offensive. Praise has never been in my face with her religious beliefs and I've appreciated that. I also agree that this is not the place for preaching but it seems to me that this is simply the way she thinks and therefore, defends herself; via the same method. Praise, perhaps has stepped on some toes with this (very few times). Certain others (again, very few) have made their vitriol their trademark. The one's (in my eyes, forgivable) outburst(s) are just not in the same league as the constant barrage of venom from the others.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: TTCM (retired)
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:55 PM

Just...just..just bend over there a little, Beanster. Ahhhhhh...that's got it, and it didn't hurt at all did it? You should be feeling the morphing effects momentarily.


(We do try and leave the authentic music threads and musical discussion threads alone, but as far as we're concerned, anything else is fair game.)



TTCM
--innoculating the disbelievers and
increasing the marsupial population--

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:20 PM

I have to agree with the Beaner. Praise preys but ever so gently. She can afford to be gentle, listening to great music which the Christians stole for their hymns while comtemplating the rest of us burning in hell.

Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:38 PM

Flattop,

1. Does Praise prey or pray? Not sure is that was a spelling mistake or not.

2. How did we steal the music? Do you mean we copyrighted it or prevented others from using it or just that we made use of some good tunes that were around?

Jon