Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 08:55 AM

You're definitely not the first on that, Grishka. As I've said on some other threads, Paul seems to have been a rather odd fellow. I suspect that if I'd been there at the time, I might not have agreed with some of his views on God and humanity. He'd probably have written a sharp letter to me and my friends on the subject. ;-)

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 08:35 AM

John P (19 Jul 13 - 07:29 PM): quite right. She wanted something different - a home -, not necessarily someone different. And he let her slip away, which suggests that theoretically he could have kept her, e.g. by offering to work for money to provide her a decent family home - traditionally the husband's task. If her decision had been final, the line would be "Then somewhere near Salinas suddenly she slipped away". The main point is that he is free, though not completely happy, without her.

This changes in JJ's version: her narrator, as I explained, had no choice and no longer feels free at all. (She "let him slip away" unintentionally, not in favour of more freedom.) That interpretation stuck. -

Ron, you have the perfect right to make a fool of yourself. If you did not want my explanation, others may have welcomed it. LH (19 Jul 13 - 07:49 AM) understood me alright. BTW, I am by no means the first to have "Paul all figured out" in that sense.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 01:18 AM

"absurd notions"    Including the right to twist them any way I see fit. (But see immediately above).

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 01:15 AM

And I reserve the right to repeat myself.   But fortunately-- as far as I know-- you have the right to not read my posts.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 01:10 AM

"not get that one"

Sorry, you're wrong there. I reserve the right to have fun with absurd notions.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 01:07 AM

Well, "Scotsman"   is a fine gateway drug to the hard stuff (traditional folk).   But please don't stop at "Scotsman".      And it has in fact been done a lot (even at US Renaissance festivals--go figger).    By the way, you might not want to ask somebody like Bill D about it--it's likely high on his "oh, no, not again" list, as well as those of quite a few other folkies--who feel that other songs deserve a lot more exposure.

"Rattlesnake Mountain"   is much better;   you can easily imagine it being sung in the Appalachians.

And please don't forget "Talk Dirty".    I like that one a lot more (even though it's composed, it has the hand of a master (John Prine)    It seems much more witty than "Scotsman", maybe since it has lots of syllables which sound like imitation Hawaiian but in fact are mangled but suggestive English.

But I'll admit I'm far more inclined to songs I can actually imagine singing.    "Talk Dirty" is one;   the others are not.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: John P
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:36 PM

As for "harpoon", I've always assumed the same as Little Hawk -- KK needed another syllable. "Harpoon" isn't all that much different than other screwed up words that permeate lyrics (especially folk!) in an effort to make the rhythm or rhyme come out right.

Either that, or that's just the way he said the word to himself, like how I always refer to my friend Joyce as "Joysarooni" in my head.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: John P
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:29 PM

I always thought he didn't so much choose between Bobbie and freedom, but rather just went on with his life when she decided she wanted something different. In my reading of it, he didn't realize how much he missed her until later, when he found that his freedom meant that he'd lost everything.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 06:51 PM

No, she wore a slip, until he let it away.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 06:37 PM

Good grief, can't anyone figure out something this simple? Bobbie was roaming around wearing his old bandana as a bikini bottom; it's

"I pulled her poon out of my dirty old bandana".

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 04:41 PM

Lighter, song lyrics can never be philosophical essays. There are many concepts of freedom, and ideas what best to do with it, but there is one thing most philosophers (including Buddha and Paul) agree on: if your heart is tied to some possession that you can lose, you are potentially open to blackmail and thus not free. The lonesome ranger of KK's story is in love with BobbyMG, but when she asks him to offer her a "home", he prefers to let her slip away. That is a private decision and no big deal, just worth a decent country song.

There was a different notion of freedom that was the cause of hot emotions in the USA and western Europe around 1970: opting out of the career treadmill that promises a Mercedes Benz and other status symbols, but expects subordination and self-crippling in return. On top, owners of fancy cars and homes often build high walls aroun their property, with cameras and guards - they build their own prisons. Others buy guns and feel powerful when they are allowed to shoot burglars, while their property is actually seized by their bank.

Becoming a hobo or a terrorist would not solve the problem either, even if these had nothing to lose. Still, I pride myself of having refused a couple of opportunities to become (perhaps) rich, and I know others who did not resist and are acutely unhappy now. It's not all abstract philosophy.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 03:57 PM

Ah yes, the John Prine and Fred Koller (of Night Of The Living Fred fame) tune Let's Talk Dirty... A few years ago at the height of "The Great Ukulele Revival" everybody and his/her brother/sister was singing this one and I was getting sick of it, but it seems to have fallen out of use and, since I haven't sung it or heard anyone else sing it for a while now, maybe I'll give it a go again.

The Scotsman, written by a true Appalachian musician, was very common at bluegrass and folk festivals thirty years ago, but I haven't heard it for years. Bryan Bowers made it quite popular.

I've never heard anyone but Pat Sky do Rattlesnake Mountain.

I love scat though. I'm a John Hendricks and an Ella Fitzgerald fan and Jim Kweskin's scatting on the first Jug Band album was great.

I also like Irish lilting and what folks from the maritimes and Newfoundland call "Jiggin' the tune". "I recall Jamie Snider saying,"If we lacks a fiddle, we just jigs the tune."

Dye-dee-diddle-um
Dum-deedle-diddle-doodle
Dye-dee-diddle-um
Dum-diddle-eye

And I can still recall my dad singing a variation of "Frog Went A-Courtin'" 65 years ago. It ended with:

They paddled off across the lake, "Hey-ho," said Raleigh,
They paddled off across the lake
And got swallowed up by a big black snake
With a rolly-polly, gamin and spinich
"Hey-ho," said Anthony Raleigh.

That was the end of him and her, "Hey-ho," said Raleigh,
Well, that was the end of him and her
Now we won't have tadpoles covered in fur
With a rolly-polly, gamin and spinich
"Hey-ho," said Anthony Raleigh.

Yah, I love those nonsense syllables.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 02:47 PM

If freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose, you ain't free till you're dead.

Less formally, murderers on the lam are often said to have "nothing left to lose." I guess they're free too.

So I've never cared much for the song.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 01:32 PM

LH, certainly the author has the first right of interpretation. The song was a favourite of college bedroom sing-arounds for more than a decade, and we sang it more or less as written. Nobody dared, or even would have liked, to imitate JJ.

Nevertheless, she had set the meaning: Freedom had no more been gained by letting Bobby slip away, as in KK's interpretation, but had slipped away simultaneously. Thus the song became political, a counterpart to her famous "Mercedes Benz".

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:49 AM

Yeah, it's not that I don't see some value in how Janis Joplin did the song. It suits her style. I just don't like it as much as I do the original melancholy approach as done by Lightfoot and Kristofferson.

Sounds like you've got Paul all figured out, Grishka. ;-)

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 05:43 AM

LH, yes, JJ indeed changed the meaning of the song, not so much by changing the lyrics, but by the way she sang it, including the na-nas. It struck a chord far beyond the lonesome-cowboy cliché.

KK's Bobby made the narrator choose between love and freedom, so he reluctantly chose the latter. JJ's narrator laments wildly; obviously she had had no choice at all.

"The apostle Paul...": I suspected you would not get that one, Ron. He was opposed to scat singers, but unable to stop them completely in the Corinthian parish. "Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." What he really meant was: they utter mysteries beyond my control, thus endangering my authority.

Please bear with my English; it is not my mother tongue and no longer what I speak every day. Feel free to correct me.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:55 AM

YMMV

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:54 AM

"Rattlesnake Mountain" seems better than "Scotsman".    Maybe it doesn't sound so manufactured--you can imagine mountain folk actually singing it exactly that way.

Then there's the personal bias I have in favor of songs I can imagine myself actually singing.   "Scotsman" does not make the cut; nor does "Rattlesnake".   "Talk Dirty" definitely does.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:42 AM

Hey, I have no objection to the "Scotsman"--as entry drug to the hard stuff (more tradiional or less lowest common denominator.) But ask Bill D (and some other posters) about it.   I'll bet a nickel it's high on his "Oh, no, not again" list. It has in fact been done a fair amount--it even seems to be a feature of some Renaissance Fairs in the US (go figger) and an argument could be made that other songs deserve more exposure.

So please don't stop with that song.

And don't forget to check out "Let's Talk Dirty In Hawaiian".    Can't explain it (though maybe it seems more witty than the "Scotsman" for some reason.)   But I love to hear (and sing) that one as many chances as I get. And it's full of nonsense syllables.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 10:52 PM

The best versions I ever heard of that song are by Gordon Lightfoot and Kris Kristofferson, respectively. They sing it the way it ought best to be sung. I think Janis Joplin pretty well screwed it up, although hers got the most airplay, so that's how (almost) everyone knows it now.

It obviously means a harmonica...and the reason he said "harpoon" is simple....the word has the right rythm to fit the rest of the lyric line and flow properly, which "harp" does not. "Harpoon" really works perfectly in that line.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 10:03 PM

Sorry, my blue clicky didn't work on the first one.

Pat Sky - Rattlesnake Mountain

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 10:01 PM

or this one: Mike Cross - The Scotsman

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 09:57 PM

Ron, I love this one, but I know you'd hate it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyDinoBd2yQ

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 08:14 PM

No, this is definitely not it.   This one is live, right? The one I remember was a studio cut. And moved along.

But it was several eons ago.    Maybe the na-na-nas on mine went by faster so the impact wasn't so great.

I'm not a huge fan of nonsense syllables (with some exceptions--the one wonderful one I can think of right off is "Let's Talk Dirty In Hawaiian".    Those are just perfect.)

Course I don't really go for scat singing either.    Somebody called it "The Wreck of the Ella Fitzgerald"

Different strokes.

But I would have chased Paul out of town too when he did the na-na-na's.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 07:18 PM

Ron, was this the record that you have? Kris singing Bobby McGee

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 06:26 PM

Hey, lighten up there, boy.

"transport (sic)--(somehow I think you meant transmit)--complex messages" That's a good one.

"The apostle Paul..."---ah, I think you've got it. He was well known for singing songs, then putting in filler for the last half of the record when he ran out of words.

No wonder he got chased out of so many towns.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 05:49 AM

Ron, I think you are quite mistaken about the significance of non-semantic singing or speaking. It can transport complex messages clearly, while escaping word-oriented censorship. The apostle Paul was quite wary of it, for good reasons.

"Hey Jude" was about feeling good in spite of minor obstacles, whereas Janis Joplin sang about the the powers of society crushing a wild desire for freedom. Note the difference to KK's attitude, whose conflict seems to arise from the woman's private wish for the security of a home. There was certainly a gender problem involved, presumably also in the private relationship between JJ and KK.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 01:11 AM

"Na-na-na....."    Yup, she sure was enthusiastic.

Kris did na-na-na too.    Interesting.    I don't remember that at all, and I have the record.

I thought maybe it was that maybe both Janis and the Beatles realized a high percentage of their listeners would be, uh, high,--and wouldn't notice a thing. Or perhaps it was unreasonable to expect their mental concentration to be equal to anything more complex than "na-na-na..."

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 07:01 PM

"Balloon" was another name, especially in the inland Pacific Northwest, for a 'bo's bindle. See Utah Phillips stuff.

I always assumed they were picked up by a ship and were whaling, so it would make sense to "pull my harpoon" through a dirty bandana to clean it off before use. Bobby was singing "the blues" -- that is to say, Blue Whales.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 06:43 PM

According to Wikipedia, it was Roger Miller who sang the song first, in 1969. YouTube has his interpretation, in a straightforward country style as you would expect. The "nana"s were there alright, and so was the melancholical tone. Nevertheless, it was only Janis Joplin who unleashed the power of the song in 1970: not being "country" in the traditional sense, but a desparate lament for a (perceivedly) lost concept of freedom, genuinely associated with the late 1960s. The fact that she died only a week later sealed the message, for many of us who did not care for country music.

It is remarkable that even at that time, most songs and tales about the new freedom already implied that the era was over, the freedom oppressed, the ideals betrayed, the revolution cancelled, and everybody striving for Mercedes-Benzes. It seems that if the Golden Age ever existed, it could not reach the record studios and radio stations alive.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 06:00 PM

The reason Janis sang the "Nananana" words is because she learned it from Kris and that's the way he did it. She may have gone on longer than he did, but she was enthusiastic.
Kris says on his preamble on the original recording, that he wrote it as a country song. That's not how Janis sang it.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:27 AM

Hey, everybody! Let's quote Alexander Pope from back in the rockin' 18th Century!

"Men of right understanding generally see all that an author can reasonably mean, but others are apt to fancy two meanings for want of knowing one."

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 07:23 AM

Of course there were no more words to the song. But that didn't stop either Janis or the Beatles.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 07:22 AM

Well, this erudite discussion sure makes the song a lot more humorous.    And that's always progress.

Now we can discuss why Janis rambled on with na-na-na for half the record. Was she just imitating folkies who forget the words?    Or was she trying to piggyback on "Hey Jude" where the Beatles honor us with similar filler for half the record?

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:57 AM

I will never listen to this song in the same way again!

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: breezy
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:03 PM

Well for oer 4 decades I been singing 'harp' cos I got it off Grdn Lightfoot on his Sit Down Yg Strgr album, so there, ya boo sucks, move on, who gives a sshight

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 06:18 AM

... why has nobody yet mentioned the evident idea that "bandana" is a slang word for "pants", and the narrator was practicing self-fellatio. Bobbie was SM, the "driver" spanked her with the "windshield wipers", until she "sang the blues". Bottom line: "Nothing left to lues".

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:45 AM

Yes, it's drawing to a close. A few more years and we should reach a conclusion.

On the other hand...

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:35 AM

"I pulled my harp on out of my dirty red bandana" should end this silly thread....

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 07:13 PM

The image that line always conjured up in my mind was the "bindlestiff," or hobo. Someone bumming around the country. The "bindle" (bundle?) was a cloth, often a bandanna, tied at all four corners and hung on the end of a stick, the stick usually being carried over the shoulder.

Kinda "traditional," really.

CLICKY

Used to see that with some frequency when I was a wee squirt back in the late 1930s living in Pasadena, CA, about a half a block from the railroad tracks. They'd sometimes come to the back door and ask my folks for a hand-out or if they had any work they could do for a meal or a dollar or two. Need any repairs? Mow the lawn?

With this image to go on—a couple young people hoboing their way around the country, carrying bindles containing their miscellaneous possessions—such as a harmonica/mouth harp/"harpoon"—doesn't seem to be much of a stretch.

Especially if that line immediately conjures up that image.

Your mileage may vary.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 06:17 PM

just for the record, there is NO WAY that Kristofferson sings "I pulled my harp on out of my dirty red bandanna" as suggested by Nick E in his post above.

He sings "I took my harpoon out of my dirty red bandanna"

Listen to the original here. The line in question is at 0.42.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 01:04 PM

And I always assumed the harmonica was in his pocket wrapped in a dirty red bandanna, because 1. dirty -- if they were hitchhiking, they'd not washed anything for a while, and 2. if you keep a harmonica just kicking around in your pocket or pack or whatever, it picks up crud that jams in the reeds and it won't play. You can keep them in the cardboard box for a while, but it doesn't last.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 12:05 PM

The "sweet potato" is another name for the ocarina, a small instrument played by mouth. According to Wiki:

The ocarina ( /ɒkəˈri¢°nə/) is an ancient flute-like wind instrument.[1] While variations exist, a typical ocarina is an oval-shaped enclosed space with four to twelve finger holes and a mouthpiece that projects from the body. It is often ceramic, but other materials, such as plastic, wood, glass, and metal may also be used.

In the 1941 movie "Meet John Doe," Gary Cooper and Walter Brennan play duets on harmonica and ocarina. Cooper was a fairly serious harmonica player and took every opportunity to play it in his films.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: topical tom
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 10:41 AM

I too have always assumed that a "harpoon" in the context of the song is a harmonica.BTW, among other terms, has anyone heard of the harmonica being called "the sweet potato"?Some musician/singer I once heard called it such but unfortunately I have forgotten his or her name.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 09:12 AM

A mondegreen is when you hear something unfamiliar as something similar-sounding which is more familiar.

(bad moon on the rise => bathroom on the right)

I don't think it works in reverse.

Or should we call it a neergednom?
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Nick E
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 09:37 PM

I always thought it was a contraction for " i pulled my harp (harmonica) on outa ( out of )..."
So I think she/he sings I pulled my harp on outa my dirty red bandanna and many hear it wrong , like Jimme Hendrix lyric, Excuse me while I kiss this guy...

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM

strange to see this thread resurface after ten years ...

for purposes of terminological exactitude, the original line which Kristofferson wrote and sang is:

" I took my harpoon out of my dirty red bandanna"

I have a couple of friends who are going to the Chicago Blues Festival in June, I have given them instructions to ask around and ascertain whether "harpoon" is in fact common usage for "harp".

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM

Well I wouldn't want to blow Kendall's harpoon!

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: PoppaGator
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 02:50 PM

Not only have I never understood use of the word "harpoon" for "(mouth) harp," I never did, and still don't, understand what the damn thing was doing inside a dirty red bandana. The entire line is so wacky that I never even thought to wonder whether the banadana was around the guy's head, or tied around his neck, or in his pocket. The pocket probably makes the most sense.

Great song, nevertheless! I haven't sung it in years, but it was a mainstay of my repertoire throughout the 70s. Juat one more example to prove that lyrics need not be 100% rational or understandable for a song to be successful.

Subject: RE: Bobbie McGee's 'harpoon'
From: meself
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 02:43 PM

No question that the 'harpoon' is a harmonica - nothing else makes any sense - and two or three posters have stated that they were familiar with the term as meaning harmonica before the song appeared, which is what the OP was inquiring about. Otherwise, what is the speaker "blowing soft"? (Please, no theories!)

The bandana is not being worn; it is a kerchief that is being used to wrap around the harmonica, to keep it free of lint, dust, seeds & stems, grains of heroin, tabs of acid, and whatever else happens to be in the speaker's pocket.