Jewish Influence on Folk Music

Subject: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 08:39 PM

After reading through the Christian Influences on Folk Music thread, it made me think that there has definitely been a Jewish influence on Folk Music also.
I would like to include Rick's posting on the Christian Influence thread to start off this topic.............

'the Jewish influence on BRINGING traditional "Christian-esque" music to us city folk has been incalculable. Just one example (from literally thousands) is that without Ralph Rinzler this whole darn world of ours would NEVER have known how important Bill Monroe was. Jewish drive, courage and loyalty made possible most of the traditional and Contemporary folk and blues recordings we all have in our collections.'


Bonnie

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 08:56 PM

BB- I will never forget the day I discovered Klezmer music--I love the stuff, even if I can't play in Bb or Eb. Kez rules!

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:00 PM

Don't forget all the "pagan" influences on music too...

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:12 PM

Or the Martian influences while we're at it, Amergin.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:12 PM

Pete Seeger's many appearances at Camp Nyvelt (hope I've spelt that right...I am a Goy after all) influenced a whole generation of Canadians who spread the "folk Gospel" (excuse use of irony) to friends and children. Folk music camps and song circles would simply not exist were it not for Jewish folks.

Davis Grisman talks about going South in the early sixties with the New York Ramblers (an early city Bluegrass band comprised of young Jewish kids) There was a hell of a lot of snickering and cutesy name-calling (Jewgrass being one of them) but when the band started playing and SINGING with skill, the old Mountain tunes, quite a few of the Big-name bands took notice.

Rick

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From:
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 01:56 AM

Sorcha. I dont know what kind of instrument you play, but if it is a stringed one you can, for example, tune the instrument two semi-tones lower and play as if you were playing "C". You will then be playing in B-flat. If the instrument is a guitar, you can put a capo on the third fret and play as if you were playing in "C". The result will be playing in "E-flat".

Murray

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 05:44 AM

Three words: Simon And Garfunkle

In my opinion, one of the best folk teams in the history of folk.

I read the Tolkien trilogy while listening to their music in the background when I was in high school. It was a magical time.

Carol

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 09:28 AM

Well, without starting a debate, I think I can safely say that Dylan had an influence on folk. Then there is Levi Strauss....I mean, generally everybody had one pair of jeans...part of the uniform sorta'.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 09:28 AM

Moses Asch. Let me repeat those two words: Moses Asch. Let me do that again: Moses Asch.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:26 AM

Also, the bulk of the post-Edwardian vaudeville songs were written by Jews, and a huge fraction of all the popular songs (Gershwin, Irving Berlin, etc.) that heavily influenced modern folk (you would have to be a heavy purist to deny that). Not to mention the influence of the taste of the producers who ran the movie industry (a few Jews there!).
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:31 AM

I assume you're including most of Tin Pan Alley in your Gershwin/Berlin pop reference? Certainly had an effect an a lot more Jews there too.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:37 AM

Also, Joan Baez

Carol

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: black walnut
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:44 AM

spaw...it's all in the jeans.

~'nut

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: GUEST,Sailor Dan at work
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 11:33 AM

Even the Irish had a Jewish Lord Mayor of Dublin. His name was Briscoe.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 11:42 AM

Back in the 50s, it seemed to me that the better the music sounded to my ears, the more likely it was that the musicians were either Jewish or from down south, or on a record realeased by Moe Asch. I've never figured out why this should have been so, but it was. I believe the popularity of bluegrass music reached a new level the year the New York City Ramblers blew everyone away at the bluegrass band competition at Union Grove.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 03:36 AM

Other non-performers important to the U.S. folk revival - Irwin Silber, Israel Young, Harold Leventhal, Jac Holzman, Kenneth Goldstein, Eli Oberstein, Marion Distler - all involved in recording, producing, publishing, collecting, and marketing folk music. Oberstein was one of the first to record blues musicians in the 1920's.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM

not forgetting Leon Rosselson

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:23 PM

Or Joseph Lieberman...oops, wrong thread!

During the thirties, forties, and especially the fifties, it took a lot of guts to publish left wing music. Don't forget those folks. Remember "People's Songs"? Joe McCarthy sure did!

Rick

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: ol'troll
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:09 PM

So! Once again it's all the Jews fault. We might all be singing arias from Verdi but instead, we're singing folk music. And some of us goyem are even playing in Klezmer bands! Oh yeah! It's possible for a G major triad klutz to play in G minor or even (shudder) E flat. The shayne madele (mayne wibe) insists that she can't sing in any other key.

Mazel Tov!

troll

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:19 PM

Yeah, Rick, I was a goyish lefty even way back then, but there was definitely a strong Jewish presence among my fellow travelers -- political as well as musical.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:32 PM

Well, I would swear that was a klezmer break I heard in the middle of the Tom Waits song we were listening to in the car as we drove through Ohio Sunday night.

From Klez to Tom to my autoharp... I am sure it will come out in something I play.

There also is a movement on now in Christian praise and church services toward Davidic forms of worship, including setting Psalms back to Hebrew melody forms. Several pieces I now are already in this genre. This affects not only the acoustic worshop music but leaks over into the approach our band takes on folk tunes... new rhythms and harmonies, modes come into play as alternative ways to do familiar folk pieces.

I think our souls are non-denominational... and that music comes from and goes to that place in us that Christians talk about in connection with Pentecost-- when all the cultural and language barriers suddenly became irrelevant as, for a brief moment, people simply were together in the spirit and had no divisions to be concerned about.

I think music, whether intentionally spiritual or not, is always a possible shortcut to that state of being, within ourselves and with each other, and with the spiritual universe I think nearly all of us would agree is a reality-- no matter how we fuss over the outer trappings we can see here on earth.

I think that is why some broken Mudcat relationhips have seen the beginning of healing at HearMe.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:39 PM

I'm with you, Praise. Now I think I know why they call you that.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 03:19 PM

Well Bob, they sure don't call me spelcheker! Reason's o-bivious! *G*

They only call me Praise cuz I named myself that here, having the silly notion (at the time( that I could live up to it. Sometimes I think I should change it to Trubblemaker, DumKlutz, Faithless Ranter... yeah, I like that one.

Really I am just one of the folks.

~S~

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 03:48 PM

Man, there's a lot of name-dropping going on here! Obviously, a lot of Jews have been involved in performing,writing,promoting Folk Music. What about Jewish traditional music? Are there any crossovers of style,themes,instruments,etc into main-stream Folk (main-stream folk?! Did I really say that?)

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Jed at Work
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM

as Rick has already pointed out, never mind the Jewish inlfuence on Folk Music - look at our current (vice) presidential electoral process!

;-)

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:24 PM

You're right, Mbo, the Martians have had a great influence on folk music and music in general, especially since that long forgotten day they took over Washington, DC....

Amergin

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 11:16 PM

Actually it's interesting (to me) that a number of the folks mentioned earlier, after spending many years playing bluegrass and early American country and gospel, started getting into their own roots and became part of the new York and LA Klezmer revival in the early 80s. Andy Statman certainly led the pack.

Rick

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Lox
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:30 AM

Who's seen priscilla queen of the desert?

Annoying people with headaches the morning after the night before has never been such fun.

"Ha'va hangover...etc"

(best accompanied with any detuned percussion instrument)

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:33 PM

On the lighter side, how about the quintessential Jewish folksinger Allan Sherman, "Glory, Glory Harry Lewis", "Sarah Jachman, Sarah Jachman how's by you", "The Righteous Sir Greenbaum" etc. from My Son the Folksinger.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 06:22 PM

Maybe I should call my first CD.......'My Daughter the Banjo Player'
My dad would roll over in his grave if I did that.


Bonnie

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:38 AM

"I found my big romance, when she broke the zipper in my pants, my Zelda, she took the money and ran with the tailor!" Sherman died way too young. His songs should be in the Yiddital Tradition.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:26 PM

"My heart is down, my head is turning around, I had to sell my little house in Levittown."

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:48 PM

"Here's a size 8 I can fix,

Gotta let it out to a 56!

Gotta jump down turn around, pick a dress o'cotton

Gotta jump down turn around pick a dress o' wool."

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:08 PM

"trampling through the warehouse where the drapes of Roth are stored." One of my great heroes -- what a lyricist. "Some extract of vanilla, enough to feed Godzilla....." We had a way early thread on AS.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Jewish Influence on Folk Music
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:14 PM

He was a fine lyricist.......but "The Rape of the A.P.E." is a fockin' MASTERPIECE!!!!

Spaw