Help please, with Irish pronunciation

Subject: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Jed at Work
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 03:33 PM

I am learning a song my Dad used to sing, and it has a verse or two he didn't sing. There are three place names I do not know how to pronounce. Can any of you language expert Mudcatters help me out?? Thank, in advance. The names are:

Tiraloughett bog
Ardmagullion
Pethravore

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:20 PM

Is the third one "The Pride of Petrovar"? Sounds as you would expect (like a Russian placename!)
Lough is the same as Loch

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:58 PM

Pethravore= Pera-vor (The th is silent) Tiraloughett= Terra-low-et Ardmagullion=Ard-ma-gullion.

I hgope this helps Jed, I may be a little off but the pronunciation should be close. Double check with Aine however as what little Gealic I have is quite rusty. Kindest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:10 PM

So my American tongue would want to say:

Per' a vor

Ter' ra low et

Ard ma gul' li on

Does that sound right to Neil?? Thanks

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 06:37 PM

They looked to me like Anglicizations of the Irish. The "th" is almost silent, but not quite, and the "gh" in lough is almost a "k" sound, but more an aspirated "k-ha" like in the name Bach.

I think Ardmagullion is close to "ar(th but not quite)-ma-goo-lyon. The "lyon" is one syllable, not 2. Slur it hard. Like in Lee'yon.

Try "teer-a-log-e(d/th)(almost th but not quite)bog.

I will, of course defer to Aines' judgement. Anybody sent her or the Big Mick a PM to check in on this thread yet?

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 07:53 PM

I stand corrected and sound advice to go to Aine or the Big Mick, Sorcha, Thank you!! Neil

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:01 PM

Neil, I am no more an "Authority" than you are. We will all await Aine's Judgement. BTW, if you want to PM Aine, ask for "ine", and then click on the one with an accent over the A that comes up. The one w/o an accent is inactive and not "our" Aine.

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:42 PM

Jed - don't know about the first, but the second seems to be an english spelling: Pronounce it as if it were english with the stress on '-gu.' and the '-ion' as in 'translation'.

The third might be the same as 'Petravore' in 'Eileen Og(e)'. The Dubliners who I know that song from pronounced the 'Pet-' as 'pet', the '-tra-' also as in 'translation' and the '-vore' as in 'shore' with the stress on it.

Take this only for serious if Áine doesn't answer - of course she's the authority for things like these.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:52 PM

Uhm...

Might be trash what I said about the '-ion' in 'Ardmagullion' - take 'stallion' as a better example.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Jimmy C
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 11:11 PM

Jed - From what I remmebre from my Gaelic ( Ulster) dialect the following is correct.

Tiraloughett bog

Pronounced Tear - A - Loch - itt Bog

Ardmagullion

Pronounceed Ard - Maw - Gull - Yan

Pethravore

Pronounced - Pet - Rah - Vore

Of course the western dialect and the south west may differ but they should be very close.

Slainte

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: alison
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 12:49 AM

I would pronounce them in my Belfast accent as

Tiraloughett bog
Teer-a-loch (as in scottish loch)-et bog
or
Cheer-a-loch (as in scottish loch)-et bog

Ardmagullion
Ard-ma-gull-yon

Pethravore
Pet-ra-vore

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Áine
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 01:05 AM

Don't know how I kept missing this thread, but there ya go. My vote goes to Jimmy C. and alison, Jed. And I do hope I get to hear you sing this song sometime soon!

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 02:16 AM

Well, I was close anyway! And close only works for hand grenades and horse shoes........

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 03:16 AM

....and pregnancies....

Thanks for the insights all!

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 04:08 AM

Well, as Bill Bryson put it - not quoted exactly but the sentiment is right - Irish Celtic appears to have been designed by 2 seperate committes. 1 for the spoken word and one for the written. And the 2 did not speak to each other....

I'll never get the hang of it:(

D the G

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:13 AM

Áine - funny you should hope to hear me sing it as I've decided to sit in the shade of my backyard today and practice it! ;-)

Thanks to all for such assistance. I'll start by practicing the pronunciation within the lyrics and see if the rhyme/meter lend any additional hints. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Áine
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:35 AM

That's great, Jed! Just you and Whippets, eh? Oh, the pictures coming into my mind ... (hahahaha)

-- Áine ;-)

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Jed at Work
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:23 AM

well you'd have to join us to hear it, and then you could correct my pronunciation, at the same time!

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 05:42 PM

Thank you Aine! Like I said I always learn something when I visit. Jed, Hope to hear you do that song soon. Aine, How is the weather down in the Lone Star State? Kindest reguards to all, Neil

Subject: RE: Help please, with Irish pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 06:20 PM

I'll record it one o' these days, and send it to Max or post it on the web.