Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?

Subject: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Les B
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:47 AM

We may have had a thread on this some time back, but it may be worth repeating. I bring this up as a result of reading the thread on "Women's Issues in Folk Music" and from seeing a gouged Gibson mandolin last week end at my favorite three-day fiddler's picnic.

The "Women's" thread talked about guys always wanting to borrow women's guitars at jams. The owner of the mandolin I saw said he was at a jam and this guy kept wanting to play it, saying "I play mandolin, I won't hurt it" - famous last words !!! When my friend got his mando back it had a real good one inch scratch right down the front.

My question is: How do you nicely say no to these well-intentioned idiots ? And, if you cave in and they hand it back with damage, what is your recourse ? (Other than immediate violence) - I've had a couple of guitars scratched over the years and I always kick myself and say never again, and then of course relent. Any ideas on this ??

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:57 AM

"You've got to understand this is my most prized possession. I just don't lend it out. Nothing personal - I just don't lend it. Hope you understand."

Not a perfect way, but I've used it and the other person at least said they understood and it was no problem.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:04 AM

I do understand the situation, but strangely enough, I have never had a problem. I will lend anything to the Right person; even sent my harp on an overnight to a woman I had just met. Harp came home just fine.....it's a conundrum, all right. How about "Bugger Off, A......" naw, probably not.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Owlkat
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:31 AM

Hi,
To quote Patrick Swayze in "Roadhouse", "be nice", and if you don't want to, then just calmly say "no". That's all you need to do. It's not a reflection on the personality of the asking party. No apologies are neccesary,(unless you're Canadian, in which case it's a cultural thing).
I've got a '65 Martin 000-18, and I won't lend it. Period. I've also got a plywood Yamaha, and anyone would be welcome to use it. No worries.
Jams can be kind of crazy, so listen to your intuition. Instruments can get dropped, scratched and messed with accidentally, and with no malice aforethought.
I've borrowed guitars myself on occasion, for hootenannnies, jams, and recording, and if it's okay, then that's fine, and if not, that's the way it is. Cheers
Owl.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Les B
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:38 AM

I guess my worst mistake has been to know that someone is a good picker, but to badly misjudge how much they've had to drink. It's embarrassing to try and extricate an instrument from a drunk's clutches without fisticuffs.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Auxiris
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 04:44 AM

The worst are people who just borrow and/or pick up your instruments without asking then act insulted when you tell them they're NOT welcome to play them!

cheers,

Aux

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:11 AM

Last week I was introduced to someone who wants to learn to play the flute. This was at a Tin Whistle class and no one else plays the flute there. This guy was full of himself - going to buy the best flute - seven year waiting list - going to be the best. Tomorrow he wants me to take along my best flute for him to look at. Now normally I will do anything for anyone - but this instrument cost me dearly and I am afraid I would only trust it with someone who knew how much it meant to me. alarm bells rang for me when he asked me how to play a flute - he has never tried, has no idea how to go about it even though everyone expained several times.
So in answer to the question I think it is a matter of which instrument - Never your best favourite friend of an instrument. Sometimes to people you trust lend out any instrument which you can stand to lose.
Roger - anyone want to have A Bodhran on permanent loan?

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:39 AM

As I've stated before, I have a Martin 00018 and a Maton 325, both bear the scars of "loaning" but I think it's worth it when I think of some of the beautiful music that people have made on them. After all that's what instruments are for, to make music.

Any of the dings and scratches I have on my instruments, in no way impare their sound or structure. They are just scars that are incurres, as those I have on my body, with living an interesting and active life.

cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Callie
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:24 AM

If I'm in the same room, I don't usually mind folks using my guitar - I get to hear it played decently! I prefer not to lend if I know the person can't hold their drink. I never loan my saxophone or clarinet. Even feel funny about family members playing them.

Callie

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:46 AM

Funny how no one ever asks to borrow my recorder.... mind you, I've had to borrow one before now.

No one ever asked to borrow the bagpipes either, several have asked if they can play them, to which, as they were French and a strange design, was nearly always No, they couldn't!

LTS

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:48 AM

When I go to a festival jam, or a party, I take an instrument that I could walk into any decent music store and replace at any time. Even so, I try to be careful whom I lend it to.

I have other instruments that nobody touches except me or people whom I know to be better players than I am (which is a very large group) and sober, not on any drug, and emotionally reasonably stable (which cuts the size of the group down considerably).

Peter.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM

I'm afraid I fall into the group that loans out instruments when asked. I like to hear my guitar well played and It isn't something that happens when I play it. My guitar would be difficult to replace but it isn't any great or wonderful instrument and could be replaced once the money surfaced.

There is a corollary to this question though. Once you loan your stringed instrument should the borrower feel free to retune it? Many people seem to think it's OK but not all of them have a better ear than my electronic tuner. Sometimes they make things much worse.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: BK
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:16 AM

I think it's the sober, emotionally stable factor which cuts down the reasonble person list, even among folkies. And I think it's sometimes attitude, not accident, that harms the instrument. I recently lent my prized 1957 D-28 to someone who DIDN'T ask to borrow it. I know she's extremely trustworthy & I offerred it, & she treated it w/the care & consideration I knew she would, but I'd be unwilling to loan it to just anyone.

A problem is that some of the guys who, often very agressivly, insist on borrowing (always GUYS, dammit!) think that cuz (in their opinion) they are way better than most, ('n better than the owner of the instrument) they should somehow have a RIGHT to use your instrument. One such person not only scratched my guitar, but put a cigarrette burn on the headstock, & shrugged it off as "another great memory" FOR WHO??

I once had to replace a transmission on my old but well-loved jeep - then 20+ yrs old. The pushy guy who borrowed it insisted he could drive a stick shift (sorta a MAN thing) & ground the gears.

Bottom line - I lend very rarely, usually for just a song or two & in my presence, but VERY selectively, & I'd reccomend either don't lend at all, or do likewise.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Giac
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:26 AM

I'll let competent players play my guitar for a tune or two, and I'll let almost (note the qualifier) any child hold it and twang the strings -- any child under 11 or so. Most really small children are more respectful of instruments than are adults. If a child is too small to hold up the instrument (2-4 yrs old), then I hold it for them, make chords and let them strum. It always gives me a little thrill to see tiny fingers tremble as they touch the strings, and their little faces light up when they can actually produce a sound.

As for tuning it - well, if a good player thinks it's out of tune, then let 'em go for it. If it's still out, then it's their problem. When I get it back, I'll just retune, no harm, no foul.

Need to add, though, that I just play on the porch with friends, for my own amazement at home, and to amuse kids. If I were professional, I might have other feelings.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:53 AM

Yeah. There are ways to say "no" politely, and I do. A guy wanted to play one of my harmonicas yesterday at a little festival up by Bracebridge, Ontario (the Lose Yer Shoes Folk & Blues Festival). He'd had a few drinks, obviously. I smiled and said, "Well, y' know, I don't lend out my harmonicas...it's sort of like kissing the person." "So?" chimes in his girlfriend, "He's kind of cute..." I look him over. "Well, yeah, only he's just not my type, that's all..." We all laughed, and I went on my way.

I frequently do allow others to play my guitar, using intuition as my guide. I can recall only 2 cases where some slight damage resulted to the instrument...out of maybe a couple of hundred.

I know one asshole whose idea of life is that everything should have a few marks, gouges, or chips out of it to give it "character". If he sees you wearing a new pair of shoes, he'll try and scuff them with his heel so they look broken in. His guitar shows numerous signs of abuse, including a large signature on its face with a black felt pen by someone like Garth Brooks, or whomever, I don't remember. This guy I do not lend anything to. I avoid him if I can.

I do not lend guitars out of my sight to anyone...except Don Bray...he is a world class guitar player, songwriter extraordinaire, and a prince of a man. I have never seen anyone with more respect for a fine instrument. I have a 1981 Martin Grand Orchestra which Don likes to borrow when he records, and I will lend it to him at any time. Don has a CD (a very good one) if anyone is interested.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:09 AM

Liz i am a litle tired but who was french and a strange design? the person wanting to play the pipes or the pipes?

please share more of your bagpipe experience on another thread - I may want to borrow them - are they ever so LOUD !!!
Roger

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: P05139
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:34 AM

When I was younger I played cello, and at first i had a school one which was unbelievably battered.

Mind you, when i started playing bodhran (sorry!) I borrowed Mum's. Eventually she got sick of me hijacking it and got me my own. I do lend it sometimes but I supervise other's use of it. If I think they're being mean to it I take it off them. If that p***es them off, TOUGH!!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Mal in Australia
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:36 AM

I just say no (unless it's someone I know).

If they cop an attitude, it's their problem - they asked, I answered. I don't want to be disliked or get abused but if they haven't got enough manners or whatever to respect your feelings, who cares what they think?

I've found it's usually a waste of time reasoning with them as someone who would ask and not take no for an answer usually has no idea what a person's instrument means to them. If they get insistent, I just tell them to push off (it helps that I'm 6'3 and 280 lbs).

The worst are the ones (and you know who they are) who ALWAYS turn up at jam sessions without an instrument and want to borrow someone's. I've got no time at all for these losers (I'm venting a bit here but it's one of my pet peeves).

By the way I've been playing Bass and Guitar professionally for over 20 years and about 90% of the damage to my instruments has been caused by "borrowers".

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:04 AM

I think I have said it before but I fall into the loaner category and I like Bugsy's comments. The biggest problem I have had has not been lending instruments out for a couple of tunes but lending them out for longer periods to people I know. I lost a fiddle when someone decided to move out of the area and go back to live somewhere in Ireland and a 5 string banjo that the person I thought had it says he returned to me in the folk club. The problem I have with that is possible that I lent it out to someone else that same night and forgot about it (it had gone about 5 years whe I asked for it back and he reckoned he had only kept it aout 1 year) but even if that is the case, the instruent has not been returned to me.

Fortuantely the fiddle and the banjo were not expensive instruments.

Jon

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: DebC
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:17 AM

I think it depends on who the borrower is, but this could get a little dicey. I own a Martin HD-28 and over the years I have been extremely wary of letting others play my guitar. My Martin has several battle scars, but somehow the ones that OTHER folks have put in are the most painful.

I ran a session in a pub in Edinburgh a few years back. One night a guy asked if he could play my guitar for a song and I stupidly said yes. He was a wee bit inebriated and as he handed it back to me, somehow lost the grip and banged it right into the corner of the table.

On the other hand, Tony McManus came in one night and I had no problem saying yes when he asked if he might play my Martin. I have to say, the sounds that he got out of that guitar that night was worth letting him play it.

Debra

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Chris Flint
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:45 AM

I guess the first thing I would wonder is why would a player not bring their own instrument? Does this mean borrowers are not lenders.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:54 AM

Hey Little Hawk, aren't harmonicas like underwear and bathing suits? Stores have a "no return" on them. Think I'd do the same.

But guitars, banjos etc. Hell, I've been loaning my instruments for so long now, it'd be too late to change my policy. A few scratches have resulted, but on the whole I've escaped unscathed. It's a bit scary to see someone pickin' on one of my antique gibsons or Martins, but I can't bring myself to say no IF THEY STRIKE ME AS RESPONSIBLE. Drunks and "whammers"? Not a chance.

The guy who "scuffs shoes" is a "loonball". Stay clear of him! What on earth do you think his motivation is?

Rick

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: P05139
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 12:23 PM

You know I mentioned the school cello? Well, someone (I mention no names,Dad!) was bringing me home from school,and he carried the cello, and..... smashed it into the wall by accident. Luckily we knew of a fantastic instrument repairer and got it fixed, but I loved the replacement while it was being fixed my parents ended up buying me it for Christmas!

It was lent to Mum to take into school and it accidently fell over and the bridge broke in half! We bought a new bridge for the cello (Carlotta). She awaits repair...

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 12:29 PM

Just a further thought, my view is I like to share mucic and loaning instruments to others, to me is a part of that and overall, I think it is a very worthwhile part.

Jon

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Mbo
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 12:37 PM

Yes! Cello! That's the next instrument on my "gotta learn" list. No one has ever asked to play my guitars, fiddle, recorder (yuck) or pipe chanter (yuck). Maybe cause I don't play in public.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:09 PM

I agree that the instrument itself dictates its 'lendability'.

My attitude is that I depend on my instruments for income - nobody asks a garage mechanic if he'll lend you his toolkit...

I say 'No, I don't lend them out' - having said that, I lent a good guitar to a girlfriend over a year ago, and told her she could keep it - even after we broke up...

Suddenly I get this horrifying spectacle of hordes of women hammering on my door, just so they can get their hands on my instrument...

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: tar_heel
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:17 PM

no way.............no one else plays my guitar,dulcimer..............no way!!!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:24 PM

Someone who turns up at a session without an instrument is likely to be a urine extraction operative. Like the sarcastic cowboy, Tex Peace.

Admittedly, I have dual values - close friends, 'yes', anyone else '**** off'!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:52 PM

Bernard, I can remeer many occasions when I have arrived at a venue armed with one only one instrument for reasons of carrying them and have asked to borrow another for various reasons which include accompanying a song on guitar as I can do the piece better that way than with my tenor banjo which I am most likely to carry. Also I have arrived at venues, not realising what the type of session is, gone to a venue to check it out,...

I played better a couple of years ago than I do now but as an example, if somebody had not been willing to lend me an instruent a guitar to do a song when I had tried to suss out what was going on to, I left the banjo with a friend while I took a look and enjyed it.

Later that evening I went to anther session in the open in the town (armed with banjo) and Chris Sherbourne and Denny Bartley who I have met before asked me (actually it was Denny) asked me to kick some life into the session for them and we had a great time. Never knew urine could achieve that.

Jon

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:53 PM

I like Bugsy, Jon and Rick's approach to this matter.
It is the kind of approach I try to take with anything I own that is dear to me.
I would feel comfortable lending my banjos out to others. Mind you, I assume a banjo is not as temperamental as some other instruments might be.
Although, I have a feeling that when I do buy my 'Baby Grand' of banjos, I may be more particular about who I share it with.
I have experienced 'The Boys' who have no clue how to play any instrument pick up my banjo and proceed to entertain me with their version of dueling banjos. I find it quite funny. Men just love that song.
Well anyway, I always feel grateful when someone offers me their instrument to play and I shall do my best to do the same.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 03:29 PM

I'll lend any of my instruments to anyone as long as I'm there watching it. However, as a professional of 30 years standing, I have no problem lending an instrument to another pro for as long as they need it. And at sessions, I will offer my instrument to anyone who needs it for a song or two. I've found that it is sometimes difficult to listen to a song and watch your instrument like a hawk at the same time. All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: tar_heel
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 04:22 PM

just spent a week in galax,virginia,at the fiddlers convention,and during the many jam sessions with my friends there,you would be surprised at how many spectators come up to you and ask to play your guitar,fiddle or whatever...all of a sudden they just think of a melody,song or whatever they have wriiten in their pointed heads,and want to perform it for all the other spectators standing around. wow!just to think,i traveled over 90 miles,paid $85.00 for a camping space,set up everything,got soken wet by a rain storm 2 nights in a row,had to have my vehicle pulled out of the mud...for a fee....and all of that just for them to use my guitar/dulcimer!!!NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 04:47 PM

Sorry, Jon - we'll have to agree to differ on that one. I had a guitar headstock sheared off by a prat who tried to balance the instrument against a ROUND table!

Your experiences have been good ones - mine were bad, so at least the thread is getting a balanced view.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: oggie
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 06:41 PM

If I blow into it then NO!! Anything else I'll lend if the're sober. If they can't play it I'll claim it back 'This is one of my favourite tunes....' or similar. Only ever had one problem.

All the best

Steve

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:01 PM

Until a few weeks ago no one had ever asked to borry my Seagull- but when my friend and occasional Mudcatter Lucius (formerly Bob Jovi) asked to borrow it for a week (he was working at a music camp but his own guitar was in the shop) I hesitated, then loaned it to him gladly. Got it back in great shape with brand new strings! So I guess I'm in the camp that says: it just depends on who asks. Any time, Lucius!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:36 PM

I borrowed Bill Sables' guitar at the getogether at LEJ's house in June. It didn't make me sound any better, however, so I gave it back. I was relatively sober.

ww

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Callie
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:37 PM

Hey Mal in Australia:

That may have been me turning up to a session without a guitar! If I go straight from work I don't have an instrument and have been known to ask to borrow for one song. Eek - your dimensions sound formidable! I'll think twice before asking! Mind you, one of the regular sessions I go to you'll be hard up finding a guitar in regular tuning. Most of the guys tune in 'd'. or maybe that's just a ploy to keep people away from their instrument!

Callie

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:22 PM

"Gee I'm really sorry but it actually belongs to my estate and my lawyer says I can't lend it out."

I also don't lend my car, my tools, or my money.

Alternate Plan B: "Okay, just let me hold your wallet."

== Johnny

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Melani
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:09 PM

I don't mind loaning an instrument to someone I know to play in my presence--or even someone I don't know if he can actually play it and doesn't seem to be a total dork. Flutes and whistles are a little problematic, so I would probably limit that to people I know who I'm pretty sure don't have cooties. Sometimws you just have to go on faith. The stringed instruments are not a problem--they're average good-sounding instruments, but most of them were made by my dad, and precious for that reason. Actually, they're probably in greater danger at home with me and my son than they are in the hands of a competent musician.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Les B
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:39 PM

Unfortunately you can't do with an instrument like the kids in the next town used to do -- as soon as they bought a coke, or other soft drink, they'd spit in it. No one would ask for a drink from their cup !! Hmmm, maybe with harmonicas ?!?

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: ol'troll
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:53 PM

I don't loan 'em. Period! I've got a lot of time, money and love invested in my instruments and I'm not going to let someone else damage or destroy them. I have a plywood guitar that I always carry in case someone needs one but the old Gibsons etc stay in MY hands or in the case and I make no appologies. As I said, I worked a lot of long hard hours to get those instruments.

troll

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:57 PM

Rick - the guy who scuffs shoes? Yeah, he's a loonball all right. I have little or no idea what his motivation is, and I'm usually pretty good at figuring out most people's motivations...maybe he just wants to bring everyone else down to his own particular level.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: campfire
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:23 AM

I guess I'm sounding like an echo in here, but I'll loan my instruments to people I trust. And I've borrowed, when I didn't happen to have my guitar along. And I've been told no by people who never ever loan out their instruments, and I didn't take offense.

When we were running an open mic, we always had a guitar for people to use - not a great one, but good enough. We only once had to stop someone after their first song and say that's enough. Guy thought he was Pete Townsend or something.

The only time I ever regretted loaning my guitar, I was still married. To save room in the car, I suppose, we only took one guitar - mine - to an open mic. My "Dearest Ex" decided he should play first - and broke two strings during his first song. No problem, I had (one set) extra strings. But then he broke one of THOSE in his third song. I still think he did it on purpose.

campfire

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Melani
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:32 AM

Giac, on going back through the thread, I am delighted to see that you play for your own amazement. I too find my own music pretty amazing.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Chicky
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:37 AM

My favourite instrument-loaning story is about kazoos:

Two friends of mine do a very funny dead-pan duet of Danny Boy on kazoos. They were asked to do it at a festival last year, but only had one plastic kazoo between them. Now, the "best" kazoo player in Australia (Mic Conway) was also performing at this particular festival, and though we all knew he had his kazoo with him, it was agreed that asking Mic to lend out his kazoo would be "like asking Yehudi Menuhin for a go on his fiddle". So the boys decided not to do their party piece after all. They were lamenting this in the bar, when Mic overheard and held out his shining brass kazoo and said "Hey - wanna use mine?". He was a bit perplexed when we all fell about laughing. The pair did their Danny Boy, and it brought the house down!

cheers
- Chicky

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Skivee
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:00 AM

My band of Pyrates was singing at the OpSail 2000 event in Norfolk this June. We were singing on the dock next to a Russian square rigged training ship called the Mir.As we were singing to the general public, a crowd of young Russian trainees and lower ranks gathered on the rail; No doubt drawn more by the charms of our women members, than any relative musical merits we might exhibit. We finished our set, one of the Russians asked in broken English if he could borrow my guitar... a beat up Yamaha, nylon string. He and I rushed the gangplack from different direction. The Officer at the bottom looked suddenly very tense, and I realized that I might be contributing to an "incedent". after we slowed down , and I CAREFULLY handed the guitar to the Tsar tar (I know it's not accurate, but I had to go for that one), the 20 or so sailors sang 3 Russian songs to us about how sad it was to be so far away from beloved homes and sweethearts. Then they very carefully handed the guitar back down the gangway. I got back the capo, and all three picks in good order. Then we moved down the dock to sing with Zentz and the guys from Forebitter. Other loaned instruments haven't fared as well much closer to home. I do the judgement call option... and almost nobody plays the Taylor but me; I couldn't afford to replace it

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 04:53 AM

I invested alot in my bodhran, and I love it! I get almost fanatical about it sometimes, and I try to make sure it is taken care of.

So I will lend it out, only to good friends, and people I know can play it, as I like to hear someone else play it. Especially if it is one of my heroes...

As for joe public coming up - usually in a drunken manner. Then absolutely not! I just say no, I am sorry, but it is very dear to me and I invested alot into it.

If it is a kid who is interested in having a go, I do let them, as long as I can show them what to do.

Put it this way, if my drum was damaged I would be really upset if that happened. I spent ages finding a good one, went and visited the maker - infact buying the bodhran was an experience in itself. It was like going for an interview - and the makers last words were.. Now you will take care of it won't you. Lol

As for whistles - always a dodgy area... I tend to loan just to good friends again. Or keep a general loaning out one nearby to give out. Nothing worse than someone elses bits in your whistle - especially if it is crisps.

yeuch!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:00 AM

Well, people don't normally want to borrow my kazoo, after they've seen where it's been and when they do they always seem to have a hammer in one hand...strange...
RtS

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:17 AM

lol - Roger I have heard that one before....

you have to get some new material....

lol

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:50 AM

New material? What's that? Most of my jokes are older than my record collection (and that includes piano rolls!). I always said it was easier to move to find a new audience than find new jokes!
RtS

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 10:02 AM

I love to have other people play my guitar (or banjo), of course I have refused that request from those who've obviously had too much to drink - it is an issue you have to weigh with each request. And as for borrowing my harmonicas, well it amazes me that anyone would want to but I have had to refuse that request a few times!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Mikey Joe
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 10:15 AM

I'll relieve of you the bodhran Roger if you're serious. My neighbour is realy annoying me with his gazoo of all things.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Rich(stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowbetter
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 10:32 AM

I've gotta go along with Ella on that one. If ti's somebody that I know can play, and is sober, thenyes. Otherwise usually, no> I spent an obcene amount of $$ for my bodhran, because I really like Albert's drums and i've a good deal of time on it before even thinking about playing sessions. What's more, the bodhran is one of those instruments that people think posession confers an instant ability to play! I don't POUND on my drum and I don't want anyone else to. If nothing else it disrupts the session.

Rich

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:23 PM

I hardly ever say "no" to lending my fiddle, and then only when the person is extremely drunk and uncoordinated, in "show off" mode, or simply if I want to play it at that moment. Other than the drunks and show-offs, people tend to be careful. Musicians just know they should "handle gently," and non-musicians often treat the fiddle with a certain reverence. If someone who was trying to be careful had an honest-to-goodness accident, I doubt I'd get mad at the person or quit lending instruments. I have only one violin I consider to be irreplacable, but although it's precious to me, it isn't sacred. While in my care, it's been sat on, spilled on, scratched, dinged, thumped, and left in a bar. Maybe the thing is actually safer with someone else!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: P05139
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:58 PM

Mbo, cello is v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v. difficult to learn. Mind you if you get a good teacher it can be v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v.v. easy!! I ended up getting to Grade 3 practical and Grade 2 theory before i gave up. I then went on to keyboard which I have played for about a year and a half, but I can't learn it anymore cos I've left school and I wouldn't get free music lessons any more. The only reason I got them was due to my GCSE Music course!!

Anyway, if you do start learning cello, remember this, KEEP YOUR ELBOW UP!!! I was forever in bother over that!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:17 PM

If you've had a year and a half of keyboard lessons, you should be okay for continuing on your own using an adult tutor book... unless, of course, you've got no keyboard. In which case, tough!

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:18 PM

Then again, this thread is really about borrowing instruments...

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bert
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:32 PM

Well that's what you get when you spend too much money for a guitar. I'm happy if someone picks up a guitar of mine and starts playing it. They are made to be played. Sure they are fragile, but so is pottery and glassware. They are disposable items. Get a few kids in your house and you will learn not to take such things too seriously.

And if you think a couple of dents are going to do it any harm just take a look at Willie Nelson's guitar. Even with a bloody great hole in the top he still makes it sound good.

Put your effort into playing and into encouraging other people to play. And if you suspect that the party might deteriorate or is going to be outside, just take along a cheaper guitar.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:36 PM

My brother played Drums in a Rock band for years. They played bars and clubs. There wasn't a night that went by that some guy would come up and ask to sit in. He let a few guys try. After a few broken skins and sticks (With no offers to replace them) he politely told them no and remained firm.

On the other hand, someone recently loaned my sister a restored fifies era Gibson ES125. He wasn't using it and thought that she may as well. She's scared to death of playing it in public for fear of it getting damaged or stolen, so she plays it at home and uses her Yamaha and Takamine for gigs.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 08:47 AM

In controlled circumstances (like lessons and rehearsals) I'll lend an instrument, but I have to be there and I have to transport the instrument. Very good and trusted musician friends might borrow an instrument, like when Brian Teheny used my guitar for a festival set, or when a local bass player of note borrows gear. Normally I do not loan instruments as I have more to loose than I'd ever gain. I've seen how things are treated and it scares me.

Perhaps it can be summmed up this way, if someone hasn't taken the care to provide themselves with an instrument, how can I be sure they'll take care of mine?

As of yet I haven't equated this issue with charity. I would like to have some old beaters to loan for students so they don't have to cart more than one to a lesson, or for when their own are in for service...but I'm a musician and that means I can hardly afford my own instruments, never mind others.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,spence
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 12:08 PM

Just ask what kind of car they drive, and if you can borrow it? Another good way to gauge a guitar cadge is to ask them if they have a pick. Chances are, anyone walking around with a pick, can pick and will rewpect your instrument. I suppose the flippant answer is to reply that the instrument doesn't actually belong to you, but rather to the credit card company. I had a Sindt whistle stolen two weeks ago by a casual "borrower" at a friendly Irish session and am strictly non-lending for awhile.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 12:23 PM

While I was sitting in a Barcelona Spain club having a drink with my wife and some friends, The group that was playing that night came in and started to set up. I for one was quite surprised to see one of the guys come in with a 5 string and two guitars.

I told him I was surprised to see one here in Spain. At that time I wasn't aware of how far bluegrass had gone around the world. (My pre-mudcat days) I told him I was a beginner and just bought a good banjo to learn on. I then went back to my table. To My surprise he came over to the table with his Gibson, handed it to me and said Here warm it up for me and I'll see you in a bit.

What a joy, I played with it for about a half hour and then out of sheer concern that I would damage it, I gave it back to him and thanked him profusely. What a way to end a vacation

Sailor DAn

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Sailor Dan at work
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 12:27 PM

One of these days as a guest I will remember to put my name on top.

But I guess after the above experience I might have a hard time not lending an instrument. But I would have to gauge the sobriety and reasons for someone wanting to borrow it.

Sailor DAn

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Lucius
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:11 AM

Thanks again Animaterra.

My own instruments are fairly scarred, I like them like that. My personal relationships are a little less scathed, but I figure no pain, no gain.

Lucius

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: guinnesschik
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:05 AM

I usually say yes, too, but as a fiddle player, the fiddle often comes back smelling of someone else's perfume/cologne/beer/cigarettes. Just say no to people who smell of fragrances not found in nature, and even some that are.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From:
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:14 AM

... best reply I heard to the question of "Can I borrow your guitar" was backstage from a well-known country/folk artist (who shall here remail nameless) who replied, "Sure, if I can f*** your girlfriend."

He then patiently explained that the two requests were on the same level.