Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 09 May 16 - 04:26 PM

And further to Vic's post -- I have a wonderful memory of Jane Turriff's description of how she interpreted a song by "putting in the curves", as useful a description of decoration as many!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Vic Smith
Date: 09 May 16 - 02:58 PM

But there are singers (Jeannie Robertson and Lizzie Higgins to name but two, plus other current singers) who seem to have access to a wider range of effects -- snap notes, pauses, leaps, slurs and, inevitably, some twiddles -- which are used to point up the text of a song.

Here we have someone, Anne Neilson, who really understands the point of it all, though obviously the fact that she is talking about two of my all-time heroes obviously helps.
I spent a lot of time in the company of both Jeannie and even more with Lizzie who stayed in our house when she was on the tours that we organised for her. To my ears, both these fabulous singers structured their conversations in the same way. All the effects that Anne describes in the admirable way in the sentence that I quote above were present in the way they spoke as well as in the way they sang. Both would sometimes makes a single syllable word into two- or three- beats if it was useful to help them make their points. As speakers and more particularly as story-tellers their use of the pause was dramatic and effective and if they wanted to emphasise a particular word they would slow down and emphasise it.
All the Scots travellers seemed to be happier talking about themes by use of particular examples rather than talking about a subject in a more general way; in a vacuum so-to-speak. I remember in particular a conversation with another hero, Jane Turriff, about men 'bad-using' women and Jane quoted several examples of people amongst her neighbours in Fetterangus and she went on to pour scorn on the man who treated someone called Annie badly. It took me some time to realise that she was talking about her song, Mill O'Tifty's Annie. It brought home to me that they did not just sing their ballads; they lived them. I think that is why I found their ballads to utterly convincing.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 16 - 02:17 PM

Dick,
The main problem you have here is that Ann and I were expressing personal preferences, not dictating what should and shouldn't be. Try to read posts more carefully in future!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 16 - 02:14 PM

'I can't get my head round overdecorated singing. I'm much happier with one note per syllable.'

I thought I'd better quote exactly the opinion I expressed earlier as Dick insists on misquoting me as usual.

I have at no point suggested that every syllable sung by anyone should be one note. This is not a black and white issue. Some people might be quite happy with 4 or 5 notes on every syllable. I'm not one of those. ecoration when applied sparingly and tastefully can enhance a performance of a song as I think I have demonstrated I am very happy with in subsequent postings.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 16 - 03:02 AM

There is more than one way of listening to the words of a song, the most obvious way is to listen to the meaning of the lyrics, then.. there is another way listening to words as part of an instrunental performance, examples, mouth music diddling opera[if in a language that the listener does not understand.
I often listen to gaelic traditional vocal music and only understand a few words, but am listening to the beauty of the voice as an instrument.
"since I'm already on here, I'd like to express an opinion about what I'd call florid or twirly-wirly singing which -- IMHO -- says more about vocal gymnastics than communication. (It can be very impressive, but I have to wonder whether it actually engages a listener in the sense that there is a shared message.)"quote.
Ann, it does communicate, it communicates a sound that is pleasant musically.
However in Daoris case, I did understand the words.
to suggest that traditional singers should not use decoration isin my opinion a rather narrow approach.
Steve said sing one note per syllable, again a narrow blinkered approach, every song should be considered differently, some songs such as Cadgwith anthem DO NOT HAVE A CLEAR STORY, SOME SONGS LEND THEM SELVES TO DECORATION SOME.. MAYBE NOT.
Variety, Contrast, expression, musicality, pleasant instrumental vocal sound all are important.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 May 16 - 07:35 PM

In response to Lighter's May 3, 2016 reply:

That remark I quoted about a person who bursts out laughing at the sound of Máire Ní Scolaí singing sean-nós: it was a very terse remark and left much to conjecture. However there was an equally laconic sentence there, which said, "not 'trad' enough." And it is no secret that Ní Scolaí had a singing technique that was highly trained and schooled, a technique from an entirely different genre of music. As posts on another thread have stated, Ní Scolaí had a technique of breath support comparable to one of the great classical singers. By this I mean, she learned how to breathe so as to support her own voice resonance with a buoyant yet sturdy column of air, engaging the muscles around the diaphragm and probably the intercostal muscles around the back of the ribcage. You have to train like an athlete in order to breathe like that. The result is more like chanting than like speech. Ní Scolaí's recordings show a voice with a really polished, deliberate sound, which to some ears will seem unnatural to the point of artifice. Maybe that is why it made somebody laugh.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 05 May 16 - 06:07 PM

Are we heading towards a discussion of what constitutes decoration? And, if so, should we be opening a new thread?

But, since I'm already on here, I'd like to express an opinion about what I'd call florid or twirly-wirly singing which -- IMHO -- says more about vocal gymnastics than communication. (It can be very impressive, but I have to wonder whether it actually engages a listener in the sense that there is a shared message.)

But there are singers (Jeannie Robertson and Lizzie Higgins to name but two, plus other current singers) who seem to have access to a wider range of effects -- snap notes, pauses, leaps, slurs and, inevitably, some twiddles -- which are used to point up the text of a song.

After all, if a song has words, surely they have to have some meaning/value….?

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 16 - 06:04 PM

Thankfully your opinion and your uninformed waffle about being an englishman and equating it with an undecorated style is just that uninformed opinion.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 16 - 04:35 PM

Dick, as always you are entitled to your opinion. Thankfully that's all it is.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 16 - 04:24 PM

i read your post carefully, this is what you said
"As an Englishman I'm afraid I can't get my head round overdecorated singing. I'm much happier with one note per syllable. Any more than that to me is moving towards art music. I absolutely love unaccompanied singing and a capella singing but whilst a great tune is important I like to listen to the words, not someone excercising their vocal chords. Having said that, I am quite partial to yodelling but that is something else, using the voice as a musical instrument."

I listened to an accredited Irish singer on tonight's Radio 2 Folk programme. His name was pronounced Derry but spelt something like Dioari. Apologies if I've got that wrong. His first song was unaccompanied and highly decorated and drawn out. The words didn't seem to matter as opposed to showing off the technique. His second song accompanied on guitar (Creggan White Hare) was totally the opposite, wonderful singing, clear diction, wonderful accompaniment, great voice.
in my opinion based on listening to dioairi, joseph taylor anne briggs and other english singers who do not sing one note per syllable and who use decoration quite a lot, my conclusion is you are talking nonsense.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 16 - 03:46 PM

Freddy,
Both of the excellent recordings you posted have pretty minimal decoration. The majority of syllables are single note and what decoration there is is both tasteful and doesn't distract the listener from the words.

All of this is of course simply down to opinion and taste. I have little knowledge of Sean Nos singing though I'm very happy just to listen to sounds if I can't follow words being sung for whatever reason, but I still prefer to hear a story if one is being told.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 16 - 03:33 PM

Completely agree with you, Ged. Sometimes when I'm on my own in the car I will sing something for the sheer joy of exercising my vocal chords but I wouldn't presume to let anyone else listen.

Dick, please read posts carefully before jumping in. I was simply presenting my own preferences, not running anyone down. That wonderful singer, Joseph Taylor, uses an absolute minimum of decoration and in the few places it does occur it's more of a warble than a decoration.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 16 - 08:11 AM

Ged, excellent post

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Ged Fox
Date: 05 May 16 - 05:47 AM

"I absolutely love unaccompanied singing and a capella singing but whilst a great tune is important I like to listen to the words, not someone exercising their vocal chords"

That's a matter of taste, of course. I sing unaccompanied and try to sing clearly so that people can understand the words. Occasionally, however I'll sing something foreign. I don't expect that the words will be understood, nor do I translate unless asked. However, I don't speak melodeon or violin but that does not prevent me from enjoying their music. Sometimes it is OK just to use the voice like any other instrument and enjoy the music and poetry for the pure sound, rather than the sense.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 05 May 16 - 05:10 AM

&
A Cappella, Acappella, Acapella, A Capella, Acapella or A Capela?

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 05 May 16 - 05:07 AM

Two 'by the ways'

article about 'a cappella' 

If you don't object to Spotify
an a cappella playlist(99%) 

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 05 May 16 - 04:44 AM

My hearing is getting a bit fuzzy I think. I love unaccompanied. I quite often find that if a guitar drowns out one critical word I lose interest in the rest of the song. I can still enjoy the performance if the musicians are good.

I like some ornamentation when it sounds un forced.
Steve, what would you say about Anne Briggs here?
Anne Briggs - Gathering Rushes (not a very clear recording though)
or
Jacqui McShee - Cruel Mother 


I understood the words OK on r2.
He's a fine voice and I enjoyed the skill of Daoirí Farrell's - The Blue Tar Road but what I struggle with is the slow pace. I'm prepared to listen to some more though.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 16 - 07:19 PM

"I absolutely love unaccompanied singing and a capella singing but whilst a great tune is important I like to listen to the words, not someone excercising their vocal chords"
firstly all singing is an exercise of the vocal chords, secondly the words were clear enough to me, I did not find the ornamentation interfered with my abilty to understand the words.
Finally what has being an Englishman got to do with anything, since when has being English meant that the singer cannot use a decorated style of delivery.
I am afraid I find this comment from Steve typical of that which pisses me off from some trad music afficianados, talk about a narrow approach, i get the impression from Steve that he thinks all english singers should sing in an undecorated style, he says he is happier with one note per syllable.
here is joseph taylor an english tradtional singer singing in a decorated style, if you do not like it mr gardham, that is tough, but please do not pretend that undecorated singing is not in the english tradition, in both cases[daori and joeph taylor] the decorated style does not interfere withe abilty to understand the lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f6pXtZ2EEA

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 04 May 16 - 06:56 PM

I'm with Steve on the issue of overdecorated singing - I find it confuses my reaction to a song which 'should' contain some message or communication.

My earliest models (in Scotland) in the early '60s were singers such as Jeannie Robertson, Davie Stewart, Jimmie MacBeath and Willie Scott, and I was easily persuaded of the power of unaccompanied singing, particularly of the great narrative ballads.
And in the ensuing time I have had found no reason to change my mind! Now my main repertoire (covering ballads, lyrical songs, music hall, contemporary) is often unaccompanied.

Many previous posters have mentioned the difficulty of working with an accompanist -- or, at least, one who was less attuned than many. I have been lucky enough to work over the previous decades with a lovely guitar accompanist who actually LISTENS -- he totally pays attention to me (aurally and visually) and is always 'subservient', which is the best word I can think of in the circumstances!

But I would never imagine him accompanying me on a ballad...

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 04 May 16 - 06:44 PM

The tracks Steve G heard @~ 36:00 & 46:00

The Folk Show with Mark Radcliffe 4 May 2016  

3:50 "Rhiannon Giddens - Black Is The Colour"

8:30 "Linda Thompson - It Wont Be Long Now"

12:00 "Sam Lee - Lovely Molly (Live at the 2016 BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards)"

20:20 "Daoirí Farrell - The Mickey Dam" (with guitar)

~24:-- "Rant - Dads 60th"

27:50 "Chris Wood - This Love Wont Let You Fail"
[ ? the Chris Wood who's Wikipedia says " He is an ardent enthusiast for traditional English dance music,..." ?]

35:50 / 36:10 "Daoirí Farrell - The Blue Tar Road"

46:00 "Daoirí Farrell - The Creggan White Hare" (with guitar)

[46:30 iPlayer crashed]

"Dallahan - Spolkas"

"Sam Beam & Jesca Hoop - Every Songbird Says"

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 May 16 - 05:38 PM

As an Englishman I'm afraid I can't get my head round overdecorated singing. I'm much happier with one note per syllable. Any more than that to me is moving towards art music. I absolutely love unaccompanied singing and a capella singing but whilst a great tune is important I like to listen to the words, not someone excercising their vocal chords. Having said that, I am quite partial to yodelling but that is something else, using the voice as a musical instrument.

I listened to an accredited Irish singer on tonight's Radio 2 Folk programme. His name was pronounced Derry but spelt something like Dioari. Apologies if I've got that wrong. His first song was unaccompanied and highly decorated and drawn out. The words didn't seem to matter as opposed to showing off the technique. His second song accompanied on guitar (Creggan White Hare) was totally the opposite, wonderful singing, clear diction, wonderful accompaniment, great voice.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 16 - 12:32 AM

with all performance and this includes unaccompanied singing, planning is necessary, give thought to changes of tempo changes of keys, variety of subject material, and include some chorus songs.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 03 May 16 - 06:29 PM

> a sean-nós devotée says that the sound of Máire Ní Scolaí singing sean-nós makes her/him burst out laughing.

Laughter suggests amused disdain, but for what exactly? Pronunciation? Delivery Melodic uniformity? Incongruity of setting and material? All of the above?


It would be interesting to know.

Subject: Review: Amhráin Ghrá, Gael Linn
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 May 16 - 05:06 PM

The compact disc "Amhráin Ghrá" from the Gael Linn label came to my attention, oddly enough, when I was trying to find out what was meant by the term "spinning Eileens." A recording review surprised me with that phrase which I had never heard before. There's a Mudcat thread on the subject now, and it has to do with harp accompaniment for songs like "The Spinning Wheel", with the cabarets in Irish hotels and castle banquets for tourist, and with the 19th-century drawing-room musical convention of singing for salon audiences. The Gael Linn recording company actively profited from such cabaret acts in the 1960's for instance. "Amhráin Ghrá" is in fact an anthology of previously-recorded songs; a few were not previously released, most were released on earlier products; but all of them were Gael-Linn recordings. So the album is a sort of time-capsule for a style of song-performing documented over a period from the late 1950's through the 1980's. Naturally there is harp accompaniment, and here and there, a piano or a guitar.

What caught me by surprise was how many of the seventeen songs on "Amhráin Ghrá" were unaccompanied solos.

I am no traditional-music insider, so the purist opinion is beyond my expertise to express. I can only sympathize when a sean-nós devotée says that the sound of Máire Ní Scolaí singing sean-nós makes her/him burst out laughing. In short, some Mudcat fanciers of unaccompanied Gaelic-language singing will be intensely unhappy with the "Amhráin Ghrá" performances because they conform to popular/commercial tastes of the show-business producers, managers, and mass public of their day, and are at best outdated. So, you know who you are, and you have been warned.

For an ignoramus like me, "Amhráin Ghrá" is downright edifying. True, if I want to encounter what you call "the pure drop," I am forced to look elsewhere. But it interests me intensely to listen to these performances by artists who are translating an oral, traditional form of music into a context that mass audiences could apprehend and learn from, if you see what I mean.

Here are the selections on this album which are sung unaccompanied:

1. Máire Ní Scolaí: An Draighnean Donn
2.      "       "          "         : Seoithin Seotho
9. Marjorie Courtney: An Samhradh ag Filleadh go hEirinn
14. Gráinne Yeats: Grádh Geal Mo Chridh'
15.    "      "         : A Oganaigh an Chuil Cheangailte
17. Mary O'Hara: Róisín Dubh

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Aug 13 - 02:32 AM

I'm lucky in having the best accompanist possible for some of the songs I sing. Kendall makes sure that the guitar is a backing instrument,s rather than leading the song, which makes it easy for me.

When he's not around, as when I am in the UK, I sing unaccompanied since I do not play an instrument, although I keep threatening to learn to play the guitar. However, I do find that, in general, solo singing does concentrate the mind of both singer and audience quite well.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 13 - 11:39 PM

One song I used NOT to sing because I was never happy with musical instruments accompanying it is 'Leaving this Land'. I heard it done by Suzanne Thomas a few years back and have it on her CD, although she didn't write it.

Anyway, at music one night I mentioned that I'd like to sing that song but never figured out chords that I was happy with, and someone suggested singing without accompaniment. So I did.

Leaving This Land
By Robin and Linda Williams and Jerome Clark
1988 Songs of PolyGram/Brantford Music BMI

"There's a dead stillness around this place
Like the calm that falls in a twister's wake
Precious memories abound
Of loved ones lying in family graves
And working fields all turned to waste
And this old weathered house that's falling down

This farm took everything you had
I watched it come between you and Dad
All he left behind was you and me
The day he came to understand
That life don't care much about our plans
He moved on like a leaf blown from a tree

I've stood with you as long as I can stand
It tears me all apart,
Mama it breaks my heart
To be leaving this land

Wolves are howling at our door
We can't hold them back any more
The dreams are lost, they can't be found
In this old house on this tired ground
Handing me the deed won't set you free
It's time for us to turn the page
On the sorrows of this sorry age
It's time to leave behind this lone prairie

I've stood with you as long as I can stand
It tears me all apart,
Oh, Mama, it breaks my heart
To be leaving this land"



See? It still gives me chills.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 13 - 08:53 PM

Again---whatever works. Good accompaniment is difficult---but then again, so is good unaccompanied singing.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 13 - 08:22 PM

"Think of the SONG, not the blighted instrument!"
Could not possibly agree more EG
Peggy Seeger is the finest accompanist I ever heard on both English and American songs - I recorded a wonderful (if uncompromising) talk she gave on the subject the year I moved to London in 1969 - I still have that recording, treasure it and listen to it for sheer entertainment, if nothing else.
The statement she made right at the beginning still resonates with me - "The first thing to ask yourself about accompaniment is "Does the song need it - if it doesn't, don't do it".
The other was "The problem with much accompaniment is, it doesn't - it leads, the voice follows.
I hope this thread runs for a thousand years.
Jim

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: GUEST,eldergirl
Date: 07 Aug 13 - 12:12 PM

I can't believe that everyone has had their full say on this.
In our neighbourhood it seems that singing without an accompanying instrument is viewed as abnormal and downright freakish, or ancient and boring. Certainly for concert-type folk venues. However, at one song session I used to go to, now alas defunct, the silence that fell in the pub for any (reasonably competent and accurately pitched) solo unaccompanied singer was striking. Maybe said session now defunct cos nattering and eating brings in more dosh for landlord? Oh, the trials of modern life.
Have noticed so many cases where earnest guitarist forgets to sing beyond his fretboard. Think of the SONG, not the blighted instrument!! Aaargh!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:55 AM

I have enjoyed this thread so much, since unaccompanied singing is such a thrill to me. I play the guitar primarily as an accompaniment instrument, for those songs which can benefit from it, especially when song-leading things like "All God's Critters" with 300 school children. But for my own pleasure and for ballads and certain other styles, there's nothing like the pure, unaccompanied voice.
Guest Russ, you expressed my feelings so well on the subject of solo singing that I won't say more.
Charlie, you said it for me on group a cappella singing. That's why my chorus, Animaterra, is a cappella all the way.
Matt, you sound as though you feel a wee bit defensive. Are you ok?

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Naemanson
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:43 AM

Don, I don't think anyone is saying musicianship ruins or detracts from singing in general. I think the general gist of the posts is that for some of us playing an instrument is not an easy flow of the fingers. We have to pay close attention to what we are doing with our hands and that distracts us from our voices.

Add to that the position some of us are in when we are playing. I tend to lean forward to watch my left hand on the guitar neck. This is not a good position from which to sing. Consequently my voice suffers and it is my strongest instrument.

Plus I think a lot of people agree with you that the individual song dictates the need for instrumentation.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: sledge
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:07 AM

When you listen to someone like Anne Briggs you just know that an instrument can quite superfluous.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 05:40 AM

One thing noone's mentioned so far is that if the norm in a setting is that songs are sung with musical accompaniment, lots of people are effectively excluded from contributing. It means that you have the room divided into performers and listeners - and this isn't on the basis that some people don't have songs they want to sing, but because they don't have instruments they can play.

What a terrible waste. Just think of all the great traditional singers who couldn't play a musical instrument to save their lives, or who prefer to sing without accompaniment. And if you have experience of song circles where unaccompanied singing is customary, think of the great singers who'd be silent if accompanied singing was required.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Bearheart
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 02:15 AM

There's nothing like singing with your full voice in the middle of the woods, alone... especially just as the sun's coming up and all the birds are doing it too.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:20 PM

I usually sing unaccompanied. I find that the solo voice is capable of greater subtleties when not having to compromise with accompaniment. And there is an intensity in the naked voice that gets diluted when instruments join it and draw the focus away the song the voice is singing. That focus and that intensity are too easily lost when instruments join in.

And when in a a group, I enjoy singing a cappella, adding harmonies to a melody, capable of tuning more accurately than a tempered instrument can manage.

One of the great joys of living in the Washington, DC area is that there are many people here who enjoy singing unaccompanied. Most of the occasions when we gather together are opportunities to sing and hear unaccompanied voices. And the Getaway is your chance to join us. Y'all come.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 07:18 PM

*shaking my head sadly*.....it's NOT a war, Matt

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From:
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 06:08 PM

you might have something there sophocleese:-)) gidday matt

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: DonMeixner
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 05:58 PM

I rarely reply to a thread that has run this long but shall in this case.

I was primarily a guitarist and singer intil I hurt my hand. Then I was primarily a singer until I retraned my fingers. Now I am still a singer but also a guitar accompanist. For the guitar, or banjo is more a tonal and visual aid. It neither detracts nor overshadows what I do. I find that I sing more accapella songs than before but I always sang that way as well.

Its the song that dictates the technique more that anything else. I will always sing "Rhue" " The Burning of Kingston" "Henry the 8th", "Spainish Johnny" and a host of others without an instrument because I feel thats what those songs need and how they suite my voice.

I think an unaccompanied song requires more preparation in many ways to sing well. With out the rhythym of the instrument, the awareness of breathing becomes more critical. Pronounciation does aswell. Vocal emphasis becomes more necessary for reasons of song dynamics.

Without the instrument staying in Key becomes more critical. Rarely does an unaccompanied snger start and end on a perfect tone.

Any one who says you musicianship ruins or detracts frim your singing either is very jelous or is very rude. Sing the song how you hear it, guitar or no.

Don

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 05:10 PM

OH NO! Here we go again!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: sophocleese
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 04:32 PM

You're right Mbo, bad leads and wrong chords add such an atmospere to a song! Certainly those 30 verse songs are rendered more intense when you add a guitar playing A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A A A D D A A E E A A D D E E A A.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Mbo
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 04:20 PM

It's alright Bill, they were just trying to add a little contrast to the 200 verse bore-fest. The reason the audience is so quiet is cause they're all zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 04:16 PM

I started in folk music playing the recorder...then the autoharp...then was tempted to sing. And though I still love to play instruments, I soon heard songs I wanted to learn that simply did NOT need anything but voice..."The Twa Corbies" and "Colorado Trail"...and many more. Some songs are okay either way. But the feeling I get when a fine singer really get into an unaccompanied song is special...

and I reserve a special place in Hades..(you know...the room with the accordians & bodhrans playing "When the Swallows Come Back to Capistrano") for those guitarists and banjo players, etc., who wont LET a singer just sing... and feel compelled to find the key and 'help' them! Please! If a singer wants some help...fine, otherwise sit on your hands!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 03:40 PM

This is thread drift maybe, but I find the suggestion that "many Americans ... are uneasy with that much intense emotion" is interesting.

The general impression we get back in the British Isles is that Americans tend to be a lot more open about their emotions than people back here. And that isn't just about the reserved English, it's as true for Irish people in Ireland and in England.

Just have a browse around the Mudcat to see what I mean, and see the different ways we all seem to go about expressing sympathy for someone's troubles or whatever.

Maybe the key word is "intense", and the greater ease with expressing feelings is balanced out somehow when i6 comes to deeper emotions involving strangers. Or maybe being morer open about expressing feeklings makes for a greater degree of sensitivity, which makes strong emotions from others more painful.

An instrument does provide a distancing mechanism, as has been said, makes it more of a performance. It marks it off from daily life, whereas surely singing without an accompaniment is just a normal part of daily life for all of us, even if we only do it to ourselves as we are driving around and so forth.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: hesperis
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 02:14 PM

Have you ever noticed that a lot of people cough at the most emotional moments?
This happens when listening to songs and watching movies.
If somebody's dying, or the song is at a really tender moment, I'll be sitting there with tears streaming down my face, or just caught up in the magic of it, and there is this HUGE chorus of *hack* *cough* *snort* et cetera.
And then people turn to me saying, "wow, you were really affected by that!" As if I'm the one who's doing something strange...

It's really wierd.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: WyoWoman
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 01:54 PM

Dave -- that's true for me as well. I end up closing my eyes when I sing unaccompanied, partly because it keeps me in the song and therefore remembering my words. But also because the contact gets to be too electric too soon if I look someone in the eye. As soon as the song's over, i can do that, but not during.

Thank you for that link and the info re. sean nos, Alice. I also agree that this is the heart of Mudcat and what it STILL is about. If I see a thread that's too much B.S. for me, I just back out of the room and find one of these. There are still plenty and if people in another room insist on quarreling with each other, well, that's their affair and not mine.

BUT ... these threads are hard on my pocketbook. They're always inspiring me to buy one CD or another ...

WW

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Alice
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 01:41 PM

Ferrara, I agree about threads like this being the heart of Mudcat. When you set the forum refresh button for two or three years and read the threads from back then, almost all of them used to be like this thread.

Alice

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 12:48 PM

There is a wonderful sense of purpose and accomplishment when one asks a question that elicits such a lively debate. I have enjoyed reading all the responses and feel that I have learned some very important things here that will improve my performances and my enjoyment of singing.

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:46 AM

When performing, singing with guitar or banjo, I make a great practice of maintaining eye contact with members of the audience--or if there's too big an audience, of looking around AS IF I were making eye contact. I think this is essential to showmanship, to keep from seeming a mere purveyor of others' songs, to make the song "my own".

Howsomever, because most of the songs I sing unaccompanied are so intense, I can't make that personal contact. I will close my eyes or look off at the ceiling or something. To make eye contact would be unbearable for me, and I think probably for the eye-contactee.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: Ferrara
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:46 AM

Threads like this are the heart of Mudcat as far as I'm concerned.

I think I said up above that I sang "a capella" in certain circumstances. Soon as I typed it I thought it should have been "unaccompanied," but hoped nobody would notice... I should have known better!!!

Subject: RE: Solo Unaccompanied Singing and Songs
From: jeffp
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:33 AM

This is such a great thread! I have been singing and accompanying myself on guitar for thirty years, but I'm planning to give unaccompanied singing a try. Of course I've sung unaccompanied walking down the street or through the woods, but not in "public". What you all have written will be a big help to me, and for that I thank all of you.

jeffp