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theology question
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Subject: theology question From: GUEST,Eileen Dover Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:11 AM I have a question for the theologians of Mudcat Cafe. On many occasions, I have heard people say "Jesus H. Christ." What does "H." stand for? |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Lox Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:14 AM Harry. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Bagpuss Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:19 AM Not Herbert? Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: sophocleese Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:23 AM Humperdinck? No idea, but I am interested in any reasonable explanantion. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Rick Fielding Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:25 AM Hi Eileen. I try not to be sacreligious, 'cause I know it hurts people unneccesarily, but I'm afraid I use that term a fair amount. Simply, I heard my Dad (who was, I suspect, an Agnostic like me) use it. He was an amateur carpenter, and when I'd hear him yell "Jeezus H Keerist"! I'd know he'd have a blue thumb for a few days. Rick |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:26 AM Hovah as in Jeeehovah??? |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:31 AM Hebrew Spaw (It has no meaning, just as Rick said....an added sidebar to the curse) |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,Scotsbard Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:37 AM The "H" is for "Holy" ... Notice that people only add the middle name "H" when really aggravated. Parents probably teach us that ...
Many years ago, I also read a tongue-in-cheek explanation regarding the numerilogical "balance" of using "H" ... "J" = 10,
So ... 10+8+3=21, which is a very holy number, (grin) ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,late 'n short 2 Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:39 AM I don't know if the "H" actually stands for anything but back in my boot camp days it was common for DI's to add the middle initial to emphasize their disappointment with my performance. I heard it often. Dan |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Night Owl Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:41 AM how about with the "H" in the name, it's no longer a swear, (refers to a different person)? Rick, you just did an exact quote from my father...accent and all. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: MMario Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:42 AM *snicker* I was once told this was taken from the IHS intertwined initials used sometimes to represent Christ. So obviously the middle initial is "h". Sounds logical to me. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Uncle Jaque Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:56 AM "HALLMARK" (R): Because God Cares enough to send the very best. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: jeffp Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:57 AM I heard it was Horatio. I have no idea why. jeffp |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,Russ Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:31 PM I agree with MMario. In Greek "Jesus" is spelled "iota eta sigma omicron upsilon sigma". The first three letters "iota eta sigma" are "IHS" when our Roman alphabet is used. The emblem "IHS" appears frequently in Christian churches. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: SINSULL Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:47 PM tHAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD ME IN SCHOOL TOO. oF COURSE I ALSO WAS TAUGHT THAT WASHINGTON NEVER TOLD A LIE, AND LEARNED THAT SOLDIERS SELDOM DIE. I LEARNED THAT MURDERERS DIE FOR THEIR CRIMES EVEN IF WE MAKE A MISTAKE SOME TIMES... Damn Capslock. But did bring it back to music. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:00 PM Scotsbard, in numerology, if you take those numbers and add each one to the next, always reducing to a single digit, like this: 1+0=1+8=9+3=12(or 1+2)= 3 which is also what you get if you just add the 21 (2+1) which you had. It's kind of neat the way the whole thing is inverted 21/12, yet can be reduced down to the same number. I really enjoy the logic and inevitability of numerology, just for playing around with numbers. Thanks! kat
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Mbo Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:05 PM Fiabanacci sequence |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Jim the Bart Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:50 PM It means your probly goin to Hell for saying it. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Jim the Bart Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM No, no, I've got it! It means the same as the "S" in Harry S Truman! |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:59 PM The "H" probably doesn't stand (consciously, that is)for anything, but simply provides extra emphasis for the truly aggravated to express their feelings, and is learned behaviour passed on from one generation to the next... However, if it did stand for something, I think this is what it would be... H is a highly significant letter in the alphabet. It stands for the Horizon, the boundary between Earth and Sky, or in other words, the boundary between Flesh and Spirit, Physical and Non-Physical. The geometrical form of the letter "H" (when it's capitalized) is a symbolic representation of the Horizon. The 2 vertical lines establish a frame of reference, between the Yin and Yang opposites, and the horizontal line is the horizon that joins them. That is an expression of our whole reality. Since Christ himself is the divine being who stands between the world of flesh and the world of spirit, since he is the bridge between those worlds, it is entirely appropriate that this symbol should be placed in the middle of his title as in "Jesus H. Christ". Christ stands eternally at the Horizon between the Worlds. What could be more beautiful than that? So there ya have it. BTW, Buddha was also the Christ, and so was Krishna, and White Buffalo Woman, and a host of others...don't think I'm bible-thumping here, because I am not. You are potentially the Christ yourself, as are we all. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,late 'n short Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM Now that the "IHS" explanation has surfaced I recall that sometime somebody someplace taught me that this was also used as a rallying cry during the Crusades, taken from the Latin "In Hoc Signo..." meaning "In This Sign You Will Conquer" and applied to the Cross. Dan |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: SINSULL Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:04 PM Little Hawk, Finally gone over the edge, right? Don't worry about it. Uncle Spaw will make up a nice room at the Sanitarium. You can have the one next Napolean if you like. And a nice warm bath, too. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:08 PM Somebody get a knife. Its time to slice the fruitcake. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,Ben Dover Date: 08 Sep 00 - 03:20 PM My wife Eileen is the one who asked the question about the "H." in Jesus H. Christ. She asked me to check and see if there was a response. I must say that I'm overwhelmed with all the theories. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: MMario Date: 08 Sep 00 - 03:27 PM then there are those who say it stands for "Hooart" |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 00 - 03:28 PM Awright!!! Next to Napoleon! We can discuss military strategy, and I love that...always have. The battle of Waterloo is a particularly interesting case in point. He didn't handle that one too well, considering, but he was feeling very ill that day, so that's probably why. And then Marshall Ney had to waste the cavalry on an almost endless series of idiotic charges against the British squares...but I digress... I just hope they've still got that room with "Space Oddity" in the endless musical loop. I can hardly wait. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Catrin Date: 08 Sep 00 - 03:38 PM Higginbottom surely! |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Bradypus Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:11 PM In some traditions, the middle name is taken from the father's name. In this case, the H would stand for Harold. 'Our Father, who art in heaven, Harold be thy name' Bradypus |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,Barry Finn Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:14 PM "By the Lord Harry" |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:15 PM Gee Bradypus....I always thought it was Howard. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Lepus Rex Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:12 PM Heh... I agree with you guys who say it's meaningless, just there for emphasis. I usually lenghthen it to "Jesus H. M***********g Christ!" when I say it, which I think is probably pretty inappropriate, even filled with asterisks... I don't say it in front of churches, though. Am I still going to Hell? ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:23 PM Lepus - consider the possibility that, like many contemporary souls, you MAY ALREADY BE THERE! I mean, like the guy down the street who made sure never to miss a single minute of "Survivor" during its entire run, and who fills his empty hours by getting blue blind stinking drunk every night at the local karaoke bar...and singing FEEEEEEELLLLINGGSSS!!!! at least 3 times a night. There's a TV on in every room in Hell, and it has no "off" switch. "Do like Elvis did and shoot the damn thing out" - Bob Dylan |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: SINSULL Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:41 PM Little Hawk, The room is really next to NapoleAn. He is a crass wannabe. You didn't really think that... oh dear. And singing FFFEEEELLLLLIIINNNGGSSSS besides. Maybe you better go for the room with the pretty blue quilted wallpaper. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Mark Clark Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:41 PM I think Bartholomew put his finger on it when he said "Hell." I first heard it as part of a joke.
First guy: "Jesus H. Christ!" Sounds almost like bad vaudeville, or is that a redundancy? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: GUEST,Barry Finn Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:44 PM Sorry, that should've read By The Great Lord Harry. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: little john cameron Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:58 PM Here's whit ah got aff the net. From Paul Tracy in the UK: "During an Internet dialogue, the question came up - why do people say Jesus H Christ? It never seems to be any other letter. It sounds American, but what does it stand for and where did it originate? Holy seems to be a strong candidate, or could it be from "Hallowed be Thy (middle) name"?" A. There have been various theories, but the one that seems most plausible is that it comes from the Greek monogram for Jesus, IHS or IHC. This is formed from the first two letters plus the last letter of His name in Greek (the letters iota, eta, and sigma; in the second instance, the C is a Byzantine Greek form of sigma). The H is actually the capital letter form of eta, but churchgoers who were unfamiliar with Greek took it to be a Latin H. The oath does indeed seem to be American, first recorded in print at the end of the nineteenth century, although around 1910 Mark Twain wrote in his Autobiography that the expression had been in use about 1850 and was considered old even then. Its long survival must have a lot to do with its cadence, and the way that an especially strong emphasis can be placed on the H. Nineteenth-century Americans weren't the first to take the Greek letters to be Latin ones - since medieval times the monogram has often been expanded into Latin phrases, such as Iesus Hominum Salvator, Jesus Saviour of Men, In Hoc Signo (vinces), in this sign (thou shalt conquer), and In Hac Salus, in this (cross) is salvation. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:20 PM In the words of my grandfather (Who was from Canada, by the way. Don't know if that means anything or not.): Pie, Cheese, and Crust, All Maggoty...Cod, Ham, Sum of Ill Bridge!!! Carol |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Jon Freeman Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:31 PM No idea. I just love the name of the poster who posed the question. What was that famous book - "Falling off a Cliff by Eileen Dover"? Ben Dover conjurs up other images, sort of like Ben Doon and Phill McCrevasse. Jon |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM Those are great, CarolC!! I have seen "Key riced" by our very own Spaw. And, I think it was BillD who posted another like your granddad's which was really good, can't remember it. When I was in radio sales, about twenty years ago, the popular expletivewas "christ on a crutch." Anyone know where that one came from and what the heck it really means? We always said it in a kind of fit of disgust or amazement. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Bill D Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM and wot do those who don't SOUND their haitches say? (never mind...silly question..*grin*) |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:50 PM Jon Freeman, (!!!) I can't believe it took me so long to get that! That one had a time delay on it. Very good! Thanks, kat/katlaughing. Carol |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Lonesome EJ Date: 08 Sep 00 - 10:45 PM Great thread. Glad to know that "Jesus H Christ" has been with us so long,gives me a remarkable feeling of continuity with the blasphemers of the past.I find many of the archaic slang terms interesting,especially those that twisted the pronunciations to avoid the act of utter blasphemy. "Gadzooks" is a great one...from "God's hooks", a reference to the nails of the cross."Odds bodkins" is another...a distortion of "God's bodkin",a reference that may have meant "God's little body",or may have been an even edgier allusion to the blade used to wound Christ.These ancient oaths, that only seem appropriate when mouthed by Jeeves the Butler in a Wodehouse novel,are remarkable because they employ the most dangerous kind of utterances imaginable,especially among the devout people of the medieval era from which they came; utterances that placed their very souls in jeopardy. Jesus H Christ indeed. LEJ |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Sep 00 - 10:56 PM when I heard this first, back in 1930something, I was told that it stood for Haploid, a natural consequence of a virgin birth. Anyone know how old it is? |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Mbo Date: 08 Sep 00 - 10:57 PM "Zounds" comes from 'Christ's wounds" and "'S blood" comes from "Christ's blood." |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Brendy Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:16 PM Apparently he hurt his leg recently B. |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:07 AM Whale Oil Beef Hooked! |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Lonesome EJ Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:09 AM Not hangin around here ya won't |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Liz the Squeak Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:02 AM Uncle Jaque - loved it, even though it was so far down the thread I've forgotten what it was now. Yes you will all go to hell. Probably in a handbasket, but who knows the significance of that, and yes I know it's often a handcart. We had one going round for a while which was Christ on a bicycle. Don't ask why, I don't know. And I always thought it was Henry. LTS |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:27 AM Well, there are at least four Mudcatters who have been seminary educated, and isn't it funny that not a one of them has waded into this little chat? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: theology question From: Lonesome EJ Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:30 PM Praise,my guess is the topic of blasphemous oaths was given short shrift in Sacrilege 101 at the seminary. |
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