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Songs about Los San Patricios?
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Mar 22 - 01:08 PM What was the song Jed Marum wrote about Los San Patricios? Ah, here: https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=61044 - A Flag to Fly - A San Patricio Story (Marum) |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST Date: 04 Nov 21 - 11:47 PM For the wonderful song by the Fenians. If anybody can catch the words in the last few lines, please let me know. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,A grateful Mexicano Date: 16 Apr 12 - 01:19 AM Gracias Batallon de Los San Patricios. Mexico forever grateful! I read the history of the Irish people & it makes very sad. The Irish fled a homeland controlled by a foreign crown with a different religion just to land in America to serve a president acting like the very same crown they fled; a tyrant who invades other countries & who also oppressed the Catholic people. It's no wonder why so many Irish left the U.S. military to fight on the side of the Mexicans. Once upon a time they said the Irish were dirty pigs. They now say that about Mexicans. They said Irish were violent drunks. They now say that about Mexicans. They said the Irish were wife beaters. They now say that about Mexicans. They say Irish only bring diseases. They now say that about Mexicans. They used to post signs that read: No dogs or Irish allowed. Now they read: No dogs or Mexicans around. To suffer racism is a heavy price to pay in America. However with time we, the Mexicans & Irish, have proved that we are also prominent members of society. I read the history & struggle of the Irish immigrant & I feel like I'm reading the history of the Mexican immigrant. However, recently I've seen many videos of Mexican people celebrating St. Patricks Day in their lil pueblos and it brings a smile to my face. I had no idea how celebrated they are, Los San Patricios. Some time ago, I stumbled upon this history through flipping channels & saw the movie with Thom Berenger, One Mans Hero. Now in this blog, I see how many people, most likely of Irish background, are interestid in this part of history. I'm honored that both our histories provides some bonding between both peoples. I've met Irish people before. However, meeting Irish will now take a whole new meaning. Please promote the history of our peoples by word of mouth or wearing t-shirts, hats, or buttons with the San Patricios emblem. I usually frequent the many Irish pubs in Long Beach California cus I love their beer. I wonder what kinda reaction I will get from wearing such t-shirts. My next vacation spot is definitely Churubusco. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST Date: 27 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM Do you know of Thom Moore's song San Patricios? |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Big Mick Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:17 AM On our new CD, The Conklin Ceili Band's "The Cannonsburg Sessions", we do Tim O'Brien's wonderful song titled "John Riley" and use "Loch Leven Castle" for the breaks between the verses and for the breakdown at the end. The CD is in local release here in Michigan now, and will soon be up on CD Baby and through our website. We are in the midst of a rework on our online stuff. If any of you would like a copy, drop me a PM and we will work out the details. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Mar 10 - 08:12 AM I pointed to this on another thread - http://www.josemalones.com/ and by way of a little light hearted humour wonder if this wonderful sounding place was directly influenced by the events described above:-) Cheers DeG |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: mikesamwild Date: 24 Mar 10 - 07:40 AM This would link nicely with the thread on songs of the Spanish Civil war We don't get the sme feeling of support for The Blueshirts who went ot spain ' to support the church' was it because they were fascists not Republicans ( not the modern US party!) as I assume the San Patricios were. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Folknacious Date: 19 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM I'm right this minute reading a massive article about the Chieftains and Ry Cooder "San Patricios" record project in the new April fRoots that came out yesterday. More here |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 10 - 04:43 PM So it was a war of liberation on the part of the USA... As was the entire conquest of the 51 states and expropriation of the people who had been living there previously. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,morrisbrendon Date: 18 Mar 10 - 04:35 PM Charlei O'Brien has written and recorded a fine song about this, and his other stuff is also well worth a listen. Here's the relevant page on his site... Charlie O'Brien |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 18 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM For your consideration: San Patricios |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pdq Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:32 AM Since the California Republic (aka Bear Flag Republic) of 1846 and the Republic of Texas, from 1836-46, were the conerstones to the establishment of the southern border of the United States, it is resonable to think of them at the same time. Ignore typo in above statement. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pdq Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:08 AM The government based in Mexico City encouraged Irish to emigrate to the Texas territory as early as 1828. They were often paid something, money or land. Germans began arriving in numbers in the 1930s, about 40% were Catholic. They came on their own and started some of the cattle ranches that still exist today. Since there was no obvious border anywhere in the Southwest, many Germans wound up in areas that are now in Mexico. Both joined various groups of pioneers who came from the U.S. All lived in the middle of a region that had been occupied by numerous native tribes which came to be known as American Indians, or just Indians. Indians were, by far, the majority race at the time the Bear Flag Republic was established and the Irish, Germans, ex pat Americans, Spanish, and most of the ethnic Mexicans all despised the corrupt and violent government in Mexico city and wanted nothing to do with their rule. Actually, most of Mexico's states were in revolt against their government at this time. The government in Mexico City decreed that only Roman Catholicism would be practiced in the Texas territory and that all people, no matter where they were from, must pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. Penalty for disloyalty to the Mexican government or non-compliance with religious demands: death. Churches were burned but they were Protestant churches and they were torched by Mexicans. Irish joined the Mexican Army in the fight to put Texas under Mexican control, however, those who suggest that these were all U.S. army deserters are way off base. Proof, anyone? |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 18 Mar 10 - 09:34 AM I read years ago that many Irish soldiers defected after American troops burned down a Catholic church early in the war. This mighty have been in "People's History of the United States". Now I can't find any reference to this event in any of the histories. Has anyone else heard this story. |
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Subject: ADD: The Men that God made Mad From: GUEST Date: 18 Mar 10 - 03:01 AM The Men that God made Mad - written by Ron Kavanagh (Arr. N. Parsons/G. Dunne) L'Entrada de L'Angustura - written by Graham Dunne Far far from Clifden's rocky shore o'er the broad Atlantic sea The Battalion of St. Patrick tired of harsh brutality No more abuse or bigotry, their angry cry wholehearted Near Matamoras lives were lost that's when the fighting started Chorus: Who were those men, what was the crime For which their lives were wasted Did they rob or rape, or was their fate As the poet once related Were those great Gaels of Ireland The men that God made mad Their wars were never merry But all their songs were sad Land of the Free meant liberty to the U.S. Army's Irish Till James K. Polk he sent them south to civilize the Spanish In a war to extend slavery and unjust exploitation They'd not repeat what Cromwell did to their poor Irish Nation Chorus: At L'Angustura, Irish blood drenched the sun-baked clay And Mexico still honours those brave men who died that day But the worst was yet to come in the hour that war was ended When General Scott hung the Irishmen to celebrate with vengeance Chorus: http://www.niamhparsons.com/fylde_track8.html |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: open mike Date: 18 Mar 10 - 01:58 AM That c.d. was featured on a local folk music wshow here.. incredible...here is an article about Ry Cooder and all.. http://www.sanfernandosun.com/sanfernsun/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5002&Itemid=2 |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pattyClink Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:19 PM Good heavens I had no idea there were so many songs about this. I'm going to quote liner notes off the "Soldiers' Songs" CD by Captain Mackey's Goatskin and String Band (Jimmy Crowley and Martin Cogain) The Men that God Made Mad Ron Kavana wished to record the heroism of the Battalon de San Patricio in the Mexican-American war (1846-1848) who defected to the Mexican side and were executed by the American Army. To the United States, the deserters are traitors; but to Mexicans, the "Irish martyrs" are heroes, honored in street names, plaques and St. Patrick's Day celebrations around the country. The battalion's name is written in gold letters in the chamber of Mexico's House of Representatives. Far, far from Clifden's rocky shore o'er the broad Atlantic sea, The battalion of St. Patrick tired of harsh brutality No more abuse or bigotry, their angry cry whole-hearted Near Matamoros lives were lost, that's when the fighting started Chorus Who were those men, what was the crime For which their lives were wasted, Did they rob or rape or was their fate As the poet once related? Were those great Gaels of Ireland The men that God made mad? Their wars were never merry, But all their songs were sad Land of the Free meant liberty to the U.S. Army's Irish, Til James K. Polk he sent 'em south to civilize the Spanish In a war to extend slavery and unjust exploitation They'd not repeat what Cromwell did to their own poor Irish nation. At Angostura Irish blood drenched the sun-baked clay And Mexico still honours those brave men who died that day But the worse was yet to come in the hour that was ended When General Scott hung Irishmen to celebrate with vengeance. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Mar 10 - 08:24 PM The Chieftains have just issued a record in tribute to the San Patricio Battalion, featuring Ry Cooder. Very good. Here is a YouTube featurette about it, with some extracts. This should make a few more people aware of the history. (And if you can get Spotify, you can hear all the tracks.) |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,MSYSPIRIT Date: 21 Apr 09 - 05:59 PM THE FENIANS DO A GREAT SONG TITLED THE SAN PATRICIOS ON THEIR CD BAND OF ROGUES. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,cha Date: 01 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM I wrote a song myself about the san patricios here are the lyrics there is a sample of it too on cdbaby.com the album its on is "songs from an outpost". I wrote the song to the air of the scottish song dainty davey 47 too long a year, men died in chains men died in fear some were lost under Irish sky and some on Mexico's fields were hung. The gallows there 14 feet high two score men condemned to die hung at noon in scorching heat, three hours they waited bound hand and feet. 47 too dark a year, men shook their chains and fell in fear from Vera Cruz a flag unfurled many men rallied round it. A Mexican eagle and a Celtic cross under the green flag men were lost shot down as soldiers, hung as slaves their cruel fate a shallow grave. Birds wouldn't cross the Pedragal through it General Lee he carved a path Valencia's army were routed there Churubusco's fate was calling. The Yankees tumbled through high corn at Churubusco we shot them down Mexican guns they soon gave out with bayonets we joined the slaughter. Three times the white flag swung round three times O'Riley pulled it down when blood ran down into the sound only then did they surrender. The Mexican eagle and a Celtic cross under the green flag men were lost Shot down as soldiers, hung as slaves their cruel fate a shallow grave. The gallows there 14 feet high two score men condemned to die Hung at noon in scorching heat, three hours they waited bound hand and feet. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Diarmuid Date: 04 Feb 08 - 08:10 AM Hi, I checked out a couple of songs and some contributions on this subject. There is another song sung by Niamh Parsons which I've heard and is very good but don't have the lyrics (that's what I was searching for). Chorus goes: "Who were these men, what was their crime, for which they were ???????????? did they rob or rape, or was their fate as the poet once related? These men of Ireland, the men whom God made mad: Their wars were never merry, but oh! their songs were sad." |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Ernest Date: 05 Jan 08 - 02:14 PM Here`s one from Black 47: http://www.thereelbook.com/groups/Black47/charts/SanPatricioBrigade.pdf Best Ernest |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Les Izmore Date: 05 Jan 08 - 04:07 AM Here are the lyrics to a song by Mary O'neill and Matt Sullivan from the Wannabe Texans, a San Francisco band from the late 80s. The rest of their music is great also. Well worth seeking out. San Patricio's Battalion Captain John O'Reilly was handsome and smiling But he'd had enough of lyin' for the Yanks So he took off with his men out of Texas and down in To old Mexico to be hung by his neck It weren't the senioritas or lots of cheap tequila That sent these Irishmen to meet their deaths It was something in their blood that couldn't stand the shoves Of injustice on a nation of free men Saint Patricio's battalion chose to fight their own damn battle And not fight another dirty US war They said we're Irishmen who know that Viva Mexico Is an echo of the cry Free Ireland Patrick and Enrique disgusted down and bleeding United and took aim at Uncle Sam It was a matter of their feeling but the bullets kept on zingin' And they died there on the burning desert sands General Winfield Scott with a medal on his heart Said I'll make these rebels pay unto the end So up on Chapultapec he hung the rebels by the neck That's why today old Texas isn't Mex Saint Patricio's battalion chose to fight their own damn battle And not fight another dirty US war They said we're Irishmen who know that Viva Mexico Is an echo of the cry Free Ireland |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:22 PM CHO: Waiting for a flag to fly Waiting as the end draws nigh My whole life passes by Waiting for a flag to fly Now I have fought invaders in own dear Ireland I came over to America unwelcomed by this land So I quit the US Army and I left for Mexico I joined the bold Battalion of the San Patricio Many were the numbers of my native countrymen Faithful now to Mexico these valiant Irishmen Helping hands, adopted lands, a common cross to bear I could see that somehow we, were the answer to a prayer CHO Standing at Chapultupec it's cruel to understand At Churubuso captured though we fought until the end Not only are we prisoners, they call us traitor too Placed to die before the flag the moment that it flew We never fought for glory and we never fought for pride For common faith and loyalty our brothers fought and died Americans may hate us but we're loved by Mexico I am no more a traitor then any soldier that I know CHO - CHO |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:21 PM I've included the lyrics to my San Patricio song below. Sorry I don't have a sound file available for this song. Before I post the lyrics, I must make a brief explanation. This song is one I rewrote for the performance of Chris Matthew's play called, A FLAG TO FLY. I had a very poor recording of the original to work with and tried to stick the original's story line, some of its imagery and some of its melody. It is quite different from the original, though. I was asked to make the modifications to fit the play's performance at the North Texas Irish Festival in March of 2003. The original author is unknown, to me - and we have searched for him. I'd still like to find him ... |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum Date: 06 Jul 03 - 11:44 PM I have a song about these guys - used in the play, A Flag to Fly. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: katlaughing Date: 06 Jul 03 - 08:19 PM I knew Mudcat would have something on this. Just watched a movie about it, One Man's Hero starring Tom Berringer. They could have done a lot better at several things, but for someone who knew nothing about this, it was quite interesting and horrifying. At the end of the movie, it said John Riley disappreared into the Mexican hills, but I see that is not so according to this thread. OH, well, it's Hollywood.:-) Thanks for all of the info, folks, kat |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Q Date: 01 Nov 02 - 02:52 PM So-called "comic" postcards depicting the Irish as ignorant louts and slovens persisted up at least into the 1930s. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: mack/misophist Date: 01 Nov 02 - 01:05 AM In school in Texas in the 50's the story was covered reasonably well in the mandatory Texas history class. And as for why so many Irishmen were eager to desert and join the Mexicans? Ask why Joan Baez is half Irish and half Mexican. When catholics are shunned and dispised they tend to group together. Furthermore, the mere fact of Irishness was partly to blame. Can ye remember the signs, 'No Irish or dogs allowed'? |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Q Date: 31 Oct 02 - 08:09 PM Do you trade with Ebay? Seems that I have seen kivatrader there. (Just call me a pushover for anything Navajo-Zuni-all the rest). Lincoln County, including San Patricio, Ruidoso, Ft. Stanton, White Mountain wilderness etc. etc. is one of the best kept secrets in sight-seeing and/or historical travel in the States. And the Cloudcroft-Apache country adjacent. Everything from cool mountain forests and good fishing (or used to be, I have not tried it for years and years) to high desert. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,kivatrader Date: 31 Oct 02 - 06:32 PM Just an added bit of local interest -- In South Central New Mexico, near the town of Ruidoso, is a very small agricultural community in a river bottom called San Patricio. The local legend is that it was settled by a group of Irish veterans of the Mexican War either just before Guadalupe Hidalgo or just after, in 1848. The area was pretty rough, being pretty lawless country in those days, today, it is really picturesque, and is home to fruit orchards, chili and vegetable stands, and at least one world class gallery. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:14 PM Mexican propaganda? The Mexicans were the victims of U. S. imperialism and fought valiantly against odds in the vain attempt to protect their country. The massacre of the cadets at Chapultepec was another U. S. atrocity that is well-remembered in history south of the border. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Suffet Date: 23 Mar 02 - 08:27 AM War is war, and as brutal as los Norte Americanos may have been, do not think for a second that the Mexicans were any less so. Nor were los San Patricios. As for their motives, at best they were mixed. As others have said, the Mexicans employed a strategy of what we would now call psychological warfare, and they did whatever they could to turn the Ameriacns against each other and to encouage desertion. They particularly targeted Roman Catholics and/or recent immigrants to the USA, who at the time were victims of Know-Nothingism and Protestant Nativism. That a few deserted is not surprising, but the reality is that the overwhelming majority saw the Mexican propaganda for what it was. Among los San Patricios themselves, there were varied reasons for doing what they did. Some may have been truly motivated by good intentions. Others were fugitives, renegades, thieves, and the like, who saw this as a chance to escape court-martial and a likely noose. Others were merely adventures and freebooters who couldn't resist a good fray. And I am certain that some where just closed minded religious bigots who were easily seduced by images of saints waved in front of their eyes. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: ard mhacha Date: 23 Mar 02 - 05:53 AM Responsibilty for the sadistic execution of the Irish captives after the battle of Capultepec was delegated to Colonel Harney, the infamous ravisher and murderer of Indian squaws during the Blackhawk and Seminole Wars. According to the official US War Office correspondence, Harney was "notorious for profanity, brutality, incompetnce, peculation,recklesness, insubordination,tyranny and mendacity". The prisoners on the hill of Mixcoac were forced to stand to attention in the wagons with nooses around their necks from 5.30am till the moment four hours later when the victorious US flag was raised over Chapultepec and they were "launched into eternity" uncowed and cheering. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Wotcha Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:42 PM I have a notion that my Great Great Grandfather (an Irish Catholic) was a patricio but am still trying to find the real reason he never came home in 1847 after voluntering to serve in the US Artillery out of Tennessee ... The sea chantey, General Taylor, was likely sung by Liverpool and New York Irish with little love for the established order -- whatever side of the Atlantic. So Santianna won the day their songs ... According to Hugill (genuflection optional), he categorizes the chantey as the unhistorical story of Santiana: "Quite a few British seamen [Irish?] deserted their ships to join Santa Ana's wild and ragged army ..." Hugill records an old west version as follows: "Ol' Santiana, ol' Santiana! Ol' Santian, ol'Santiana! Ol' Santiana . . . Santiana gained the day, Hooray, Santiana! Santiana gained the day, Upon the plains of Mexico, Mexico, Mexico." Titles include "Santiana," "The Plains of Mexico," and "Old Santy Ana." Huzzah! Brian |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: GUEST,Nick Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:23 PM I heard about the San Patricios while running down what I figure to be incorrect liner notes from Great Bigs Sea's ALbum "Play" where it is stated the sea shanty "General Taylor" is about an American turncoat officer in the Mexican-American war. The only turncoats I can find are the San Patricios. Upon reading Stan Hugil's book it seems like that info is off, and the song is in fact about Zachary Taylor. The song is from a family of shanties known as Mr. or Masa Stormalong. This family includes the shanty Santi Ano, where Zachary Taylor is mentioned by name. So it is my suposition that General Taylor may well have been a version that was by members of the San Patricios, not about them. So if I am right I dont know any songs about The San P's, but if I am wrong I do. Follow? Nick |
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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN RILEY (Tim O'Brien) From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 06:31 PM Here is a song by Tim O'Brien: Lyr. Add: JOHN RILEY (Patricio) [A-]John Riley came from [C] Galway Town in the [A-] years of the Irish [D] hunger And he [A-] sailed away to [C] Amerikay when the [G] country was much younger [A-] ... Now the place was strange and [C] work was scarce, and [A-] all he knew was farming [D] So he [A-] followed his other [C] Irish friends to a [G] job in the U. S. [A-] army Chorus: [C] Adventure calls and [A-] some men run And [C] this is their sad [D] story [A-] Some get drunk on [C] demon rum And [G] some get drunk on [A-] glory... Now they marched down [C] Texas way to the [A-] banks of the Rio [D] Granday And they [A-] built a fort on the [C] banks above to [G] taunt old Santa [A-] Annay... They were [A-] treated bad and [C] paid worse, and [A-] then the fighting [D] started And the [A-] more they fought the [C] less they thought of the [G] damn old U. S. [A-] Army Chorus Now when the church bells ring on a [C] Sunday morn it [A-] set his soul to [D] shiver He saw the [A-] senotitas [C] washing their hair on the [G] far side of the [A-] river... Then John Riley and 200 [C] more [A-] Irish mercen[D]aries They [A-] cast their lot, [C] right or not, [G] south of the Rio [A-] Granday Chorus Now they fought bravely [C] under the flag of the [A-] San Patricios [D] Till the [A-] Yankee soldiers [C] beat them down at the[G] battle of Churu[A-]busco... Then 15 men were [C] whipped like mules, on their [A-] cheeks had a hot iron [D] branded They had to [A-] dig the graves of [C] 50 more who were [G] hanging faded [A-] handed Chorus: then full INSTR verse, slows with last line Now John Riley stands and [C] drinks alone at a [A-] bar in Vera [D] Cruz, And he [A-] wonders if it [C] matters much if you [G] win or if-a you [A-] lose.... "I'm a man who [C] can't go home, I'm a [A-] vagabond," says [D] he, "I'm a [A-] victim of some [C] wanderlust and [G] divided loyal[A-]ty." Chorus (twice) br> It has been determined that Riley went back to Ireland. There were stories of his becoming a derelict in Vera Cruz, but these were incorrect. The men who stayed in Mexico had families, and their descendants are posting genealogical data. Riley Not the Irish song John Riley in the DT. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:49 PM Dang! Wild Geese |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:46 PM Another bit of unknown history. Gen. Winfield Scott, vilified for some of the San Patricio hangings, had saved 23 Irishmen from hanging by the British during the War of 1812. Scott and about 1000 soldiers, including the Irishmen, were taken prisoner in one of the actions. The British separated the Irish-born to be taken to England to be tried for high treason. Scott was released in a prisoner exchange, and took the case to Congress. Later he captured a number of British soldiers, and said he would hang 23 Britons if the Irish were not released. The interesting story is here: Wild Geese 1812 |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:29 PM That song by Chris Pace was posted by Seamus Kennedy - I just put in the line breaks. It's intended to be sung with the tune of that song about the Alamo and Travis and all -I think they had it in the movie, but I've never seen the movie.
As I've read the story, the hangings were said to have been arranged so they could see the defeat of their comrades and the storming of the fortress as they waited to die, as a way of telling them what they had done had been in vain. If they'd been cheering I'd have doubted they'd be cheering the American troops.
Of course there were a lot of Irish on the American side too, so they could have been - but I can't imagine doing that in the circumstances. Your loyalty would surely be to the people who had fought beside you, the Mexicans defending the fortress against the foreign invader. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:12 PM I haven't run across an old song about Los San Patricios, but I would imagine that there are several Mexican songs that were inspired by them. Any comments pointing to possible songs would be appreciated. I tried to find the Cris Pace song posted by Mcgrath in the DT since it has the wiggly mark, but no luck with any of the words of the title. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Irish sergeant Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:25 PM It's all interesting to me. We were taught very little about the Mexican war in high school which was many years ago. What I've learned I learned later in a couple of college course a reading on my own. The San Patricios were as stated above not entirely Irish. it should be noted that not all of the San Patricio's captured were hung. SCott made every attempt to ensure the trials were conducted as fairly as possible under the military system (The Articles of War) at the time. I've read, although I haven't seen it in more that one source so I will not attest the veracity, that the San Patricios that were hung the day Chapultapec was taken watched American troops take the fortress and cheered as the flag went up. Sounds like folklore to me but anything is possible especially in war. Winfield SCott was looking toward the presidency but I don't believe that even he thought he had a chance. Brilliant militarily, he could be tempermental, sulky and extremely vain but he did run a straight forward campaign and managed for the most part to keep his soldiers from the normal depradations that most armies tend to commit (or did in those days) Namely rape, pillage and murder. Those who did were tried and hung with far more swiftness than the san patricios were. The officer corps for both the Union and Confederate Army learned their trade in Mexico by the way. Was it expansionist? Certainly but it is also one of our more interesting wars in that there are several similarities to Viet Nam Kindest regards, Neil |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:12 PM It would have been the Yanqui soldiers singing about the Redc White and Blue (since they go in for it as well, along with the British, the Dutch, the Russians and half the coutries in the world.
And if I'd been in the Battalion I think I'd have wanted change it to something like:
Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew I'm lonely, my darling, since parting with you; But by our next meeting I''ll hope to prove true, With the Green White and Red, never Red White and Blue. I think marching to a cumulative song like "Green Grow the Rushes O" would be very tricky, especially with each verse longer than the one before. The reference works are divided on this one, when it comes to explaining Gringo. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 22 Mar 02 - 03:31 PM McGrath --- followed your link to 'Green Grow The Lilacs'... Irish soldiers singing about the Red, White & Blue? I don't think so.... plus this, from the same link: Oh yes, the story about this being the basis for the Mexican epithet of "gringo" is most likely pure fakelore. RG If I were of a marching disposition I think I could do it to 'Green Grow The Rushes-O' (but fortunately I'm Not!) BJ |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: ard mhacha Date: 22 Mar 02 - 02:13 PM In 1997 to commemerate the San Patricio Battalion the Irish Postal Service [An Post] issused a 32P Stamp. At the same time the Mexican Postal authorities also issused a 3.40 Stamp. The two Stamps are similar bearing a full Celtic Cross with the Harp and the Mexican Coat of Arms. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:50 PM Forgot to Close. Los Patricios |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM As I've heard it the term "gringo" probably doesn't come from "Green Grow the Rushes O", but from "Green Grow the Lilacs" - which would be a more likely song for singing while marching along .
Either way it'd be Green. "Rap the Green White and Red Flag round me Boys!" |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM Those interested in the St Patrick's Battalion (Los Patricios) should read "Shamrock and Sword," by Robert Ryan Miller, Prof. History, California State Univ. at Hayward. The Battalion was never entirely Irish (est. between 40-60 %). One of the posts seems to suggest that (Sgt.- U. S. rank) Capt. John Riley was just a name in a song. He was real. After the failure of the Mexican War effort, he was court-marshalled, but was not hanged, like a number of the Battalion members were, because he had deserted prior to the official declaration of war. He received 50 lashes and was branded "D" on his cheek. He did not remain in Mexico as many did, but returned to Ireland. After the War, a battalion of Los Patricios continued in service for a short while, patrolling to prevent attacks by bandits and Indians. Mexico lost half of its territory in the war, a point which still rankles. A good, very brief history is given on this Univ. Texas website: |
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Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM How 'bout that?! I made a clicky! and line breaks! There's something else to add to the Mudcat's great qualities -- it teaches you HTML! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GRINGO From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:47 PM Just discovered this thread on an idle search for more about Los San Patricios and thought you might be interested in a song that my friend Ian and I wrote about them. You can hear a clip of it here (I hope!) Click here
GRINGO
St Patrick's boys marched hard and long |
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