Songs about Los San Patricios?

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 08:08 AM

And we could ask them to put in a word for baby Patrick.

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 08:00 AM

Maybe "The Paddies" gets the sense of it best.

I was looking at that name - John Riley. Have you noticed how many songs there are with John Riley or John Reilly, or just Reilly in them. It's a name that seems to appeal to singers.

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: paddymac
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 07:51 AM

Ebbie - My Spanish isn't all that great either, but I think you have the correct literal translation. The colloquial translation would be something more like "the Irishmen" as in Mexico's version of an Irish Brigade. I hadn't really thought about before, but now I'm curious: did they choose the name themselves or did Mexican officialdom bestow it on them?

Sorcha - don't be so hard on your kinsman. He was twice decorated for valor as a junior officer during the war with Mexico and served brilliantly in the Civil War. His most apparent weakness was that he trusted his subordinates without question. Most historians consider him to have been impeccably honest personally, but his Presidential administration was corrupt because of his trusting reliance on subordinates. That is , perhaps, a necessary or even admirable trait in a military context, but one prone to exploitation in a political context. There is a good bit of scholarship available on him. I most respectfully suggest yhat you might change your view if you study a fair sampling of those writings.

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 03:32 AM

Seamus, evidently your January 23 tour is not yet on What's On. (?)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 02:46 AM

Seamus, I just remembered I've heard him mention you- although I don't specifically remember his mentioning that he met you!

I'll make sure I come to your next concert in Juneau- will you be doing Anchorage, Fairbanks and Juneau, in that order? I could PM you, of course, but this is more fun!

I'll have to check the What's Up feature.

Now back to the thread- my Spanish/Latin is not all that good. "Los San Patricios"- I read that as The Saint Patricks or maybe the sainted Patricks. What is the literall translation? Thanks.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 02:25 AM

Ebbie, it's the very same Chris Pace. I met him in Juneau when I was performing on tour last January, and I'm going back to AK for a 3 week tour starting jan 18th. PM me for the details. merry Christmas to you and yours. Seamus

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 01:58 AM

Seamus, are you still around? There is a Chris Pace here in Juneau- is it possible that he's the one who wrote that song above? The Chris I know is primarily a flat picker; I haven't heard him mention any song writing. On the other hand, he is a history buff.

The things we don't know about each other! I will pursue this...

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 12:34 AM

Huh. I never heard of any of this.......ain't sophmore American History just great? U. S. Grant was my grandmother's uncle, and I was born and raised in a town named for Winfield Scott........(and a BTW--Grant's middle name was Simson, not Simpson. He was still a blank blank blank idiot....)CREEP ALERT!!

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: paddymac
Date: 24 Dec 00 - 11:16 PM

Richard - what film did you rent. I've seen the one starring Tom Berenger called "One Man's Hero". Is that the one you saw or is there perhaps another?

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Dec 00 - 03:39 PM

Hi Joe: I mentioned them in a post, I believe around St. Patrick's day, - Larry (probubly spelt the name wrong...)

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: richardw
Date: 24 Dec 00 - 12:14 PM

Joe;

Have you been listening to Tim O'Brian on his "Crossing" CD? He has a song there about John Riley, the Colonel.

We rented the movie the other night, just by chance. Not bad.

So many good stories out there that are not usually told.

Richard Wright

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 11:51 PM

This is a great song, but it really bugs be because I heard a lot about Los San Patricios sometime in the last two weeks, and I can't remember where I heard it. Seamus, do you mention them on one of your excellent CD's I've been listening to?
Seamus, when you past text into a message box here, the HTML tags (like <br>) must be visible to you in the posting box before you hit the "submit" button. If you can't see the tags, they ain't there.
If that doesn't make sense, I am open for private HTML counseling sessions (or you could read the Mudcat HTML Guide).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 05:05 PM

I'm glad this song was written by an American.

One interesting point about Santa Ana and Zachary Taylor is that, though Santa Ana lost and Zachary Taylor won the day, when it came to the sea shanties, it was more common, as I've heard, to put it the other way round. (Though you often get people singing Santy Ano correcting it to the historically accurate version.)

Any Mexican songs about any of this?

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:28 PM

Kevin, thanks for formatting the song for me. I actually did all the
stuff (brackets and br) and it didn't show up. I wonder why? Anyway, the song was given to me by a singer-songwriter from Alaska called Chris Pace, and it's a darn fine one too. All the best
Seamus

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: GUEST,paddymac
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:54 AM

Let me try this again - it looks like I lost my cookie. Thanks Seamus and Kevin for the song. Cant wait to give it a try with the lads.

Here are more notes from the Christensen book cited above.

San Patricios

Notes from Christensen:

@158 "Mexican Generals had been encouraging deserters form the US Army ever since Matamoros. The US deserters who formed the San Patricio Battalion had drilled with Santa Anna at San Luis Potosi and now fought well against their former comrades. Wrote US solider Samuel Chamberlain 'The Mexicans had a heavy battery of three guns, manned by Irish deserters from our Army. These desperadoes were organized as a battalion known as the Battalia San Patricio, or Legion of Saint Patrick; the commander was the notorious Reilly, who ranked as a Colonel in the Mexican Army. A beautiful green silk banner waved over their heads; on it glistened a silver cross and a golden harp, embroidered by the hands of the fair nuns of San Luis Potosi. The deserters pitched their shells into every part of the field, some bursting in the road a good mile in our rear."

@203 "Among the Mexican troops at the convent [Churubusco], none fought with more desperation than the two companies of soldiers from the San Patricio Battalion. They had fought well in other battles. John S.D. Eisenhower says, 'The San patricio battalion of American deserters, who knew that they would be hanged if they were captured, really stiffened the back-bone of Mexican resistance… and brought about a more serious battle than Scott had any reason to expect. It was expensive. Scott couldn't spare a man in his campaign. He was now down to about 8,000 effective troops, alone, in a foreign country. Finally, after nearly three hours of savage fighting, the US forces overwhelmed the convent. Seventy-two San Patricios, including Captain Riley, were taken prisoner."

" 'It was with much difficulty that the American soldiers could be prevented from bayoneting these miscreants on the spot. So deep was their indignation against them.' George Kendall, Ed. New Orleans Picayune"

@204 "Less than a month after the Battle of Churubusco, thirty of the captured US deserters from the San Patricio Battalion watched the US storming of the Castle of Chapultapec with ropes around their necks. It was the last image they would see. General Luis Garfias provides a Mexican perspective: 'The North American Army acted correctly from the point of view of military law. From the Mexican point of view, we use another criterion. We see a group who, for religious and political ideas, join the Mexicans and are hung… We understand that the decision of the North American army is correct. But Mexico remembers with respect because they were men who gave their lives for Mexico." ^^

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:19 AM

Seamus, Kevin - Thanks! It both amazes and saddens me that the story of the San Patricios is not better known. I found the following in a book called "The U.S. - Mexican War" by Carol & Thomas Christensen; Companion to the Public Televuision Series, Bay Books, S.F.; 1998 by KERA-TV, Ft Worth/Denton. ISBN 0-912333-44-8:

@158

---

Duplicate messages deleted. --JoeClone

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? ^^
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:24 AM

LOS SAN PATRICIOS Chris Pace 1998 (Melody: The Alamo)

Driven from Ireland by famine
and England's cruel Crown,
They joined the American army
and quickly marched down
To fight Santa Ana,
to burn and to plunder
And make poor Mexico bleed.
But the Irish crossed over,
and conscience ruled over greed

Hey, up! Yankee Doodle!
The Irish have come to our side,
To help defend Mexico's pride,
Viva los San Patricios!

St. Patrick'e Battalion,
500 of Erin's brave sons
In America's army,
were forced to use sabers and guns
Against peons and farmers
who shared their religion,
And ordered to take o'er their lands
For manifest destiny,
Mexican blood on their hands.

Hey up! Zachary Taylor!
We won¹t fight your Mexican war,
Your orders our soldiers ignore,
We've become San Patricios!

Monterrey, Matamoros, Churrabusco,
they fought Uncle Sam.
With Captain John Riley
from Galway to lead in the van
For God and for freedom, amigos!
For a people sovereign and free,
And justice the victor,
when conscience defies tyranny.

Hey, up! Captain Riley!
'Neath the flag of the Saint and the Harp.
You have captured all Mexican hearts
Viva los San Patricios!
Viva los San Patricios! ^^

Subject: Lyr Add: LOS SAN PATRICIOS (Chris Pace)^^
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 12:24 AM

LOS SAN PATRICIOS
(Chris Pace 1998 Melody: The Alamo)

Driven from Ireland by famine and England’s cruel Crown,
They joined the American army and quickly marched down
To fight Santa Ana, to burn and to plunder
And make poor Mexico bleed.
But the Irish crossed over, and conscience ruled over greed

Hey, up! Yankee Doodle!
The Irish have come to our side,
To help defend Mexico’s pride,
Viva los San Patricios!

St. Patrick's Battalion, 500 of Erin’s brave sons
In America’s army, were forced to use sabers and guns
Against peons and farmers who shared their religion,
And ordered to take o'er their lands
For manifest destiny, Mexican blood on their hands.

Hey up! Zachary Taylor!
We won’t fight your Mexican war,
Your orders our soldiers ignore,
We’ve become San Patricios!

Monterrey, Matamoras, Churubusco, they fought Uncle Sam.
With Captain John Riley from Galway to lead in the van
For God and for freedom, amigos!
For a people sovereign and free,
And justice the victor, when conscience defies tyranny.

Hey, up! Captain Riley!
'Neath the flag of the Saint and the Harp.
You have captured all Mexican hearts
Viva los San Patricios!
Viva los San Patricios!^^

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: paddymac
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:59 AM

Here's a piece from my "Today In Irish History" file about the San Patricios.

20 Aug 1847 The US Army of invasion overwhelmed the defending Mexican army and captured the Churubusco Convent. Seventy-two members of the "Battalia San Patricio" were captured, including their leader, Col. Frank Reilly. The San Patricios were predominantly Irish-born catholics who had crossed over from the American army. Less than a month after their capture, thirty of the San Patricios were hung by General Winfield Scott as they were made to watch the storming of Chapultepec castle by US forces. (Christenson, 1998 @ 203-4) U.S. President Ulysses S. Grant, then a Lieutenant, was with the invading army and referred to the battle in his Personal Memoir as "the severest battle fought in the Valley of Mexico." He went on to remark that "some of the [Mexican] gunners that stood their ground were deserters [the San Partricio's] from General Taylor's army on the Rio Grande."

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 09:43 AM

Thanks for starting this one. I have long meant to do some research on this group, and you have given me the starting point. I appreciate it.

Mick

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 07:45 AM

And here is a site in Connemara telling about them.

Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 07:39 AM

As you say.they are honoured in Mexico. The Zapatistas today have a San Patricio Battalion

Subject: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'?
From: paddymac
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 07:05 AM

During the period involving of the US invasion of Mexico, there were a number of men, mostly Irish, who deserted from the American Army and joined the Mexican army. They became know as "Los San Patricios". Tom Berenger did a movie about them a couple of years ago, titled "One man's Hero". Primarily an atrillery brigade, many of them were captured at the Battle of Churubusco Convent, and several hung by Gen. Winfield Scott as the US flag went up over Mexico City. Scott's dramatic hanging of the men was considered at the time as "statement" largely designed to boost his posture in his campaign for the presidency. Fortunately, his campaign failed. Los San Patricio's are well loved in Mexican history, but virtually unknown in US history. Not surprising, but sad. I have been trying to find a song about them, but have had no luck at all. If any 'catter knows of a song about the San Patricios, I'd grateful for your help.