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False humility...and real humility.
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Subject: False humility...and real humility. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 00 - 03:21 AM I find myself a bit irritated by the common acronym IMHO, so I've been using IMNSHO instead (in my not so humble opinion). I'm gonna explain why. To say IMHO strikes me as false humility...it's kind of unconvincing and pretty snide at the same time, I think. I am VERY proud of what I am, which is a living human soul. Each one of us should be very proud of what we are. Our opinions are usually strong...if we bother to give them at all...and they are hardly what I would call humble, so why say IMHO at all??? On the other hand, everything that I have and everything that I am is a GIFT! And in that sense I do feel humbled in the light of a greater source from which I have come, and from which you have come also. That has little to do with our opinions, as such, but it is that greater source before which we can and should feel humility. IMNSHO. Okay? Your friend, and equal brother in arms... Little Hawk |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Oct 00 - 06:15 AM I use the one that reflects how I actually feel when I write whatever I am writing. When I use IMHO, I mean that I count my opinion as one among many I can respect, one still exploring what I really think, one where I seek to learn. When I use IMNSHO, I mean that I am speaking from such a large body of personal experience that I am willing to stand firmly behind that opinion as an expert. Not as THE expert, of course-- it's all relative, and I am still eager to learn when my HO is NSH. But when I use IMNSHO, I am on what I see as very solid ground, and I am confident I can back up what I am saying with practical applications based on well-founded hypotheses. When my husband was new to the Net, he asked me one day why I was writing [I'm a Ho]. I joked back that sometimes I write [I'm Not Such a Ho]. So I think of those when I use these terms also, and I grin. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: KingBrilliant Date: 24 Oct 00 - 06:30 AM Well, surely its just a convention and a means by which people can try to convey that they are not being aggressively opinionated. I suppose it can come accross as sarcastic - but I think of it as a shorthand to avoid going into a long um-ing and arr-ing & bush-beating. That's how I read it - but then I don't usually write it (at least I don't think I do). Communications a bitch sometimes, innit? Kris |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Troll Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:32 AM Modesty forbids. troll ***BG*** |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: robroy Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:23 AM I always read that as In My Honest Opinion or In My Not So Honest Opinion. Which I figure may be I'm doing my best but I ain't sure. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: MMario Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:25 AM I've always taken "IMHO" to be "In my HONEST opinion" - which is totally different from "in my HUMBLE opinion". when I see "IMNSHO" my first reaction is to assume joking or prevarication. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Jon Freeman Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:35 AM I just use IMO and leave it to others to decide (if they really feel the need) where it is Humble, Not So Humble or even Honest or Not So Honest (I've not come accross those interpretations before) besides that, I only have one opinion on any issue which is of course subject to change at any time without notice and may include more than one conflicting "sub-opinion". Jon |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:34 AM remember the Rocky & Bullwinkle episode ? BULLWINKLE: "Humble, that's me. Mister Modesty! When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest!" ROCKY: "So I see." |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:46 AM I really don't know why its even needed. Everything here in the BS realm is just that.....an opinion. No matter how well documented of backed with "fact," its still an opinion. Sometimes it can help to add a "joke emoticon" if you like to be clear as to intent, but any statement I read here I take as someone's opinion. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Tinker Date: 24 Oct 00 - 10:05 AM The definition that's stayed with me longest, was given to me by a Priest when I laughingly challenged his humility as he praised his own performance. His response.."Humility is the acceptance of facts." Yes, Little Hawk to accept and to share gifts graciously requires true humility. Here abouts I usually take the phrase to either identify an openess to hear others opinions, or a spoon of sugar to help a tough message go down.For me to use IMHO is a self reminder of to use my gifts well, choose my words carefully, and listen. On rare moments, I even get it right. Tinker |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Jim the Bart Date: 24 Oct 00 - 10:11 AM I have always wished that people were thick skinned enough and confident enough to take someone else's comments for what they are worth - a "fart in a windstorm" just about sums it up. But, since people are people, with feelings and sensitivities that we can in no way judge using only the keyboard characters at our disposal, I find using "IMHO" to be a useful social disclaimer. I mean, why get miffed when the writer is admitting right there that it's only an opinion and, therefore, might very well be mistaken. As far as the title of this thread, I think that all humility is false - a guy who performs a "heroic act" in an emergency and then says "anyone could have done it" is not being humble. In a real sense, anyone could have. That doesn't mean they would have, but that's something else altogether. To accomplish something extraordinary, that took an investment in work, planning, time and dedication, and to then say "anyone could have done it" or "thank the Lord for giving me the talent and blah, blah, blah" is just bullshit. But expected bullshit in our society, for some reason. It is "bad form" to crow for too long. I just don't get it. If I post about something, at times it is because I feel that I have a point of view that has value and that should be shared. There is not much humility in that. At other times it is because I'm testing out an idea, and I have found that one of the best tests of my thought processes is to try to vocalize it in a forum where I can get honest feedback. When I am doing that, I usually add "IMHO" or something like that to indicate that this is not something I'm advocating as much as positing. Maybe I look like a bad guy for saying this, but when I post about something it's usually because I feel that I know more about something than somebody else. A lot of the time I'm wrong. But I believe in what I say when I say it and when I learn better I admit it. I would hope everybody else posts in the same way. Just throw them ideas out there and let the chips fall where they may. Eventually the thread sinks and we can start over again. IMHO? Yeah, I guess so. Have a great day Bart |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: GUEST,Russ Date: 24 Oct 00 - 10:13 AM Whatever IMHO is supposed to mean, I don't really think it is intended to be "convincing." It's just politeness, etiquette, a form, a ritual. For example suppose two humans meet. They need to acknowledge each other's existence and reassure each other of peaceful intentions. They don't want to give the interaction a lot of thought. They perform a ritual. "Hello, John, how are you doing? Fine, Jane, and you? Fine." Neither the questions nor the responses are "sincere" but they are not intended to be. I think of such forms of etiquette as the oil for the social machine. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:37 AM Hmmmmm...good food for thought here. I didn't realize that some people take the H to mean "honest". I hope this has not led to some of my posts being totally misconstrued by someone. I may just abandon the acronym altogether now...or go to using IMO, but as Spaw points out, it's all opinion anyway, so why bother? It's as redundant as saying "at that moment (or point) in time"....a moment, be definition, has got to be in time, so why not just say "at that time", and you've got it covered. It's pontificating and puffery, that's what it is. Politicians love that stuff. Bartholomew - all humility is NOT false...not if you genuinely believe in a higher presence and power that is alive in your life, and I do. Do you think I'm a born-again Christian or something? I am not. I study Taoism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Science, Art, History, Culture, the Medicine Way (Native American), Wicca, and so on...and I find no conflict between any of them...they ALL lead to the same beautiful and simple Truths. Both Darwin and Einstein expressed strong belief in Spirit. Like you, I tend to post when I think I know more about something than maybe the next guy does...that's entirely normal, and not shameful in any way. I agree that if you DON'T believe in Spirit or something higher that is unseen, THEN all of your humility may be false posturing, indeed. You see politicians (and certain TV evangelists) constantly doing such smarmy stuff, and it's downright embarassing. Sickening, in fact. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:42 AM Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble When you're perfect in every way.... |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: mousethief Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM I always thought "In My Humble Opinion" was meant to be ironic, not humility either false or otherwise.
Where has all the humor gone
Alex |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:07 PM I generally use IMHO as irony, as Alex says. Although actually I tend to recognize the untruthfulness of the literal meaning by making it "not so". Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:11 PM Isn't there a story about Pope John XXIII who said to one of his bishops "Don't try to be humble. You're not great enough." |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: mousethief Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:14 PM I always figure if someone is REALLY humble about their opinion, they'd keep it to themselves. Pete, your story reminds me of the three Jewish men, two old and one young, praying in the Synagogue. The first old man beats his breast and says, "Great Ha-Shem, have mercy on me, for I am but nothing." The second old man beats his breast and says, "Oh Holy One, have mercy on me, for I am nothing." The young man says, "G-d, have mercy on me, for I too am nothing." The first old man turns to the second old man and says, "Tcha! Look who thinks he's nothing now!"
Alex |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Oct 00 - 02:38 PM To me IMHO always looks decidely ironic, even sarcastic, and decidedly unhumble. Anyone who says things like "Well, of course, I'm not an expert but.." is, in my experience, normally pretty confident that they are right.
But that's probably just a reflection of where I live. Irony isn't second nature in England, it's first nature. My impression is that Americans are more straightforward in the way they talk, but maybe that's just an oversimplified stereotype.
I never use these acronynms anytway - as 'Spaw said, if you say something, that means it's your opinion, unless you're lying, or unless you phrase it in a way that tells people to take it some other way. (Putting it in quotes, or maybe sticking ... are two ways of suggesting it might need to be taken with a little salt.)
But people have been communicating in writing for hundreds, indeed thousands of years. I can't see why suddenly it's considered that language itself isn't capable of conveying our meaning, and it has to be supplemented by codes and pictograms. Nothing against them, they're quite fun, but while they may add to the variety, they don't really make things clearer.
My basic rule is that anything anyone says is to be interpreted as being meant in a friendly way, if at all possible. If it isn't, that soon enough becomes clear. Why meet trouble half way? And I hope people take what I say the same way. If I'm being unfriendly, I generally make it fairly clear. (And argumentative isn't of course the same as hostile.) |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Little Neophyte Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:35 PM Well guys you won't believe it but I honestly thought IMHO meant....... In My Honourable Opinion Really I did! Shows how much respect I was tagging on all your posting. I thought I was socializing with a bunch of really important people. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:44 PM Honourable...wow! Even better. By golly...that's the best yet. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library) Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:56 PM Yeah, but is it false honour, or real honour?
Alex |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:57 PM Uriah Heap, with his "I'm ever so 'umble" in David Copperfield - that's why "humble" has those sneaky associations for me, and associations with humbug. All Charles Dickens' fault, bless him.
In my Handsome Opinion |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: hesperis Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:06 PM "In My Hellraisin' Opinion" (I had to say that!) |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:21 PM "in my harmonious opionion"??? "in my halfwit opinion"??? "in my hellacious opinion??? God, the possibilities... I'm gonna just go with IMO, or nothing at all from here on in. |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Jim Dixon Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:27 PM Among the Sufi stories collected by Idries Shah there is one that goes something like this: The Mullah Nasrudin was having a discussion with a spiritual ascetic. The ascetic said, "I have become perfectly selfless and humble. Therefore I never think of myself, only of the other person." Nasrudin said, "I am not only perfectly humble; I am perfectly objective as well. I can think of myself as if I WERE the other person. Therefore I think of myself all the time!" |
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Subject: RE: False humility...and real humility. From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 25 Oct 00 - 01:29 AM I thought IMHO was the first name of The Mummy in the old Boris Karloff movie. I opine his last name was TEP. All the best. Seamus |
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