NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease

Subject: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 05:47 PM

Right. I've just been burgled and am in a BAD MOOD - not upset, just angry. They didn't get my computer or my beloved guitar, but they did walk away with my CD player and my two lovely cameras, and my flatmate's laptop, jewellery, CDs etc. They've walked all over my bed and empty out personal belongings, etc. Strange - I feel vaguely insulted that they left all my CDs. What does that say about my taste in music? Anyway, any crime prevention tips are greatly appreciated. I doubt we'll get the stuff back - I just assume it's gone for good, burglaries being so common place in the UK these days, but at least we're insured. Also, any tips about feeling safe on my own in a basement flat would be nice - my flatmate's away quite often. And remember, weapons aren't an option!
Cheers in advance,
Fib.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Morticia
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 06:04 PM

your local cop shop will have lots of advice and info re crime prevention.....window locks, stencilling your post code on your stuff etc.etc.I'm sorry this happened to you, I remember how horrible I felt when it was me.And you may say weapons are not an option but can I think nasty thoughts at them, can I? Next bowel movements and hedgehogs come to mind.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 06:05 PM

Your most police departments and good insurance companies are replete with information of this sort. It would be far better for you to read some of that and ferret out those things you find applicable rather than for us to guess at whether, for instance, you have casement windows or sash, etc..

I know how very violated you must feel. My deepest sympathies to you and your flatmate.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 06:09 PM

Cheers! (Look! Look! I joined properly! I will only be a Guest from work now)
Yeah, I got the info from the police, but does it work? They suggest things like planting big prickly bushes outside the windows, and postcoding all the stuff, but I'd love to know if people find that this helps - has anyone ever got stuff back that they postcoded, for example. I don't hold out much hope...

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 06:30 PM

Sorry to hear this - I got done a couple of weeks ago and although I couldn't get worked up about the things that I had stolen which amounted to a few hundred pounds -it was the sheer hard work involved in replacing credit cards and cheque books and getting new pin numbers etc that has completely done my head in! also all my contact numbers were programmed into my mobile phone so I have lost peoples numbers.This is the fourth break in in as many years and it is very tedious. The police are sympathetic but tell me that the items stolen are meantfor a quick sale to buy drugs and are therefore difficult to trace. Its a sympton of a greater social evil Im afraid

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 07:02 PM

I've heard the prickly bushes bit and our house does have them, although we weren't the ones to plant them. Also, bright lamps outside, so that they cannot work *under cover of dark*. I remember reading some years ago that most burglars will not even bother with a place if they hear or see a dog; they consider it to much bother, but of course those were the pros. Who knows if that would be true of a drug addict.

I suppose you could always set up some sort of Pink Panther type of trap, so that when they come through a window a bucket of bricks falls on the head.**BG**

Sorry, not trying to diminish what happened. I would feel very violated if I were you. BTW, when I was researching an article on guns for protection, I found that most experts feel a can of spray paint was the best protection if someone is close in and trying to harm you. If you spray it right into their eyes, they will drop everything, the gun, you, loot, etc. to instinctively reach for their eyes.

All the best,

kat

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 07:04 PM

One day at work I was called into the front office. There was a man there, introduced to me as a police detective, who handed me a packet of photographs and asked if I recognized any of them. I immediately recognized that they were all shots I had taken. Amazed, I asked the detective how he had gotten them and how he had tracked them to me. I was surprised to learn that my camera had been stolen from my car earlier that week. The detective surmised that I must have left a door open. The thief had attempted to remove another camera from the car of someone who lived on the next street over. However, this time the car's owner saw what was happening, raced to his car and tackled the thief. During the ensuing struggle the thief dropped my camera to the ground. It was smashed. My neighbor managed to detain the thief until the police arrived. Later, on a whim, the detective had my film developed. One of the photos showed the entry sign to my workplace, complete with address. The rest was easy.

The point is that sometimes the police get lucky. Sometimes they have what is needed to put them in the position of being able to track down the owners of stolen items. Sometimes all that is needed is a good, solid clue.

I would most certainly advocate marking at least your most marketable items. It couldn't hurt and might even help.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Gary T
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 07:11 PM

An effective general strategy is to make your stuff less easily accessible than the next fellow's, the idea being that most thieves will choose the path of least resistance and least likelihood of getting caught. Hence the suggestion to plant large prickly bushes out under the windows. Anything that makes your place more difficult or more time-consuming to get into could help. Light timers that switch a few lights on or off at various hours lend the impression that someone's inside. I once saw a suggestion to leave a bathroom (lavatory?) light on--the savvy crooks will notice it and try elsewhere, not wanting to interrupt someone going to the loo (the dumb ones may not think about this). I don't know if putting identifying numbers on your stuff is to make someone think twice about taking it or to make it easier to recover, but I would think that it's generally more effective to put effort into deterring the theft than trying to undo its effects afterwards.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 07:18 PM

Some years ago, I was a burglary victim, but, I always record the serial numbers of anything of value, and, I also took pictures of my two guitars. The thief was caught with my stuff and he got 5 to 7 in Maine state prison. All I had to do was clean the fingerprint powder of the vcr. Without those serial numbers, you stand as much chance of getting them back as a plastic cat in hell.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: alison
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 07:19 PM

It's a horrible feeling knowing that someone has been going through your stuff, (happened to me on holiday once)..... and that thought that they "might" come back.... (highly unlikely but try convincing your brain...)

I have a dog, bouganvillea (big spikes) growing over my fences,.... and security lights.....

also keep a record of serial numbers on your stuff, I also borrowed a digital camera and have photos of all of my instruments and important stuff....

hopefully none of it will ever be necessary.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Melani
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 10:06 PM

I don't know if it's an option if you're a renter, but a dog is about the best protection I can think of. We have been robbed several times, but never when we had a healthy dog that barked when people came to the door. Most burglars won't even bother. I was once cased by a couple of young guys who said they were handing out free samples of dog food--but the box came from the grocery store, complete with price tag, and didn't look anything like the usual sample packages from companies. They were just deciding which houses to go after. My golden retreiver enjoyed the "free sample."

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 10:21 PM

I have opted for the lazy man's security system. I live in a dump and own no saleable possessions. My stereo is out of the stone age, the TV is so old it doesn't have a remote control, the furniture looks like the Salvation Army would reject it, and I have a watch cat. And, of course, my CD's are by people no self respecting burglar has ever heard of.

But I knock on wood and hope that I don't get burgled for there is no way to stop a determined thief. I understand the feeling of being violated, FM, for I have had stuff stolen in the past. Good luck on implementing a good security system.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: campfire
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 01:08 AM

I follow Naemanson's policy - I thought I was the only one who didn't have a remote!

I have had unknown persons pawing through my things and you really do feel violated. Fortunately, nothing of value was taken (cops thought they were looking mostly for cash, credit cards and small "quick-sale" items).

My watch cat would merely slip out the door if someone opened it without doing the special "keep the cat in the kitchen sidestep", but the dog deters anybody from getting that close to the door in the first place. He's a 125 pound Labrador/Dane(?) mix, and has a very deep bark and a head the size of a grizzly bear's. Nobody gets near the house without being "announced".

Unfortunatly, my car seems to be more of a target that the house. That's been broken into and rummaged through so many times that I had quit locking it overnight and just didn't leave ANYthing in it, before I had the dog.

campfire

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 03:36 AM

Aye, thanks guys - it's reassuring that some people get goods back (though I'm not holding out any hope), and I'm going to buy prickly shrubs! I don't feel violated as much as plain angry, although lying in bed last night, every noise was definitely a burglar to my overimaginative brain. I like the idea of a big, snarly dog (or even a big friendly one) but I'm renting, yes, so we can't have pets.
I'm glad they didn't take my CDs - I'm off to write my name on them all with permanent pen (I could use the UV pen, but I think record shops are probably less likely to handle stuff with someone elses name on it...). Fortunately I had a serial number for my CD player. Unfortunately, I don't have for my cameras, one of which was an old but pretty good SLR my dad gave me. There were some negatives in the camera bag, and my name was all over the bag, so perhaps they'll be found by someone.
Cheers everyone, and sympathies to all who know this sort of stuff from experience.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 05:37 AM

GaryT, you remind me of a story about two guys being chased by a grizzly bear. One stops suddenly to change into a pair of track shoes, and his friend asks him, is he stupid or what? The shoes won't help him run faster than the bear. And the track-shoed escapee remarks, he doesn't have to run faster than the bear; he just has to run faster than the friend ...

Fibula, the dog idea is good, if feasible. Works for me. Alternatively, I've heard of people who have a tape of dog sounds which they play on a timer. Prefer the real thing, m'self. I have a cousin who even claims his dogs on his income tax as a security item (crafty farmer, nasty dogs).

I've marked all my valuables (trust me - didn't take long!) with UV marker. I also made sure that I marked in inaccessible places, and places that crooks won't think of getting rid. Computer batteries, cards,etc. It is a VERY good idea to use the little stickers that come with the pen (duplicate them if necessary) and stick them on every window and door, so that thieves know before they go to all that trouble that 'fencing' items will be complicated.

I also have good neighbours. Well, in one sense. They are, shall we say, *well known* ? to the local cops. ie) One of the sons is doing 7 for drugs. But I quite like the old mother, do little jobs for her, give her a bit of baking, etc. Don't know about other towns, but in this small town, there's a code of honour among, well ... you know. The guys in rival factions can beat the bejabers out of each other, but ya don't touch their women. I think, touch wood, that I may now be in this classification by association; a number of my neighbours have had troubles, but not me.

Good neighbours, then, is another good 'un.

sian

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Midchuck
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 06:41 AM

If I decide to turn to crime in my old age, for lack of a decent pension plan, I think I'll move to England, or someplace with very strict gun laws. Much safer.

Peter.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 07:18 AM

Yeah sian, there's a lot to be said for nice neighbours. My last place in Belfast was good because a lot of us knew each other on our street and kept an eye out (noseyness being a large factor!) but unfortunately I've only been in England (and thus this flat) for a month, and it's a big detached house with a flat above us and you can't see into the garden from the road. The burglar put all the stuff in a rucsac and hold all, so s/he probably looked like all the other students in the area when walking blatantly out of the gate. Grrrrr.
Of course, nosey neighbours aren't so great when your house gets busted... (but that had NOTHING to do with the tenants in our house and was a case of mistaken identity and general incompetence, and we eventually got an apology for it!). Still, kept the neighbours wondering for a while though, heh heh heh! (Except for the sad fact that my boyfriend's boss lived across the street...)

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:45 AM

Buy a BIG dog, also consider a crossbow (in the UK you do't need a licence for one), a well aimed crossbow bolt will do as much damage as a bullet.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:49 AM

Wow, this is from a while back. I've been burgled again since then too.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:00 AM

Correct, JIH, you don't nead a licence for a crossbow. However, it is an 'offensive weapon' and I imagine a very dim view being taken of you, a kebabbed burglar, and the 'it went off while he was cleaning it' story. Non-penetrating projectiles, like a good hefty Black Widow shot, would do the trick nicely, I feel.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:04 AM

what... again?

When?

Just get Donalds horrid skull on a stick - that should sort em out.. or just rent Donald for a week..

E :)

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:12 AM

In this country, if you set a booby trap "set gun or crossbow" and it kills someone, your ass is grass. Thieves are lazy. Make your place difficult to get into by planting prickly bushes etc. I heard of one guy who had three locks on his door. He left one of the unlocked, so, a lock picker would always lock at least one of them!

Sometimes a simple BEWARE OF DOG sign will do. (It's not illegal to lie to a burglar)

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:56 AM

I haven't been burgled since May (that was the second time), but that may be because I have now taken then precaution of removing all my worldly belongings from my flat and rigging my doorbell to the mains, just in case the little bastards still feel tempted.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:07 AM

I'm so sorry to hear you were burgled. Having had only my car stereo stolen, I can only imagine how it would feel to have someone actually in your home.

I am told there are few greater break-in deterrants than a loud large dog. I don't know if that would fit into your lifestyle, but if you can manage one, it may help. Also, I have heard of alarms and services for apartments. You might want to check into something along those lines.

On your musical taste? :D

How much do you really *want* to have in common with a criminal, anyhow?? ;D

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:14 AM

Yes, I understand that crime has flourished exponentially in the UK since all law-abiding potential victims have been disarmed and rendered essentially helpless, at the mercy of predatory thugs and vermin. Something like 44% at last count... or was that Austrailia, where a similar "public pacification" agenda was imposed on the hapless Subjects. Of course, criminals could care less about weapons prohibitions, and we are told that there are areas in GB where the street gangs roam about armed to the teeth with complete impunity, as even the "Bobbies" are too terrified to meddle with them. I can just about assure you, Fibula, that any valuables left behind were probably more than could be conveniently lugged away at the time, but they have been catalouged for future refference and the vermin (yep; that's what I call 'em, having been under the blue lights for a few years. Go ahead and call me "insensitive"; my sympathies go to the victim about every time) will be back for another load, if he has not done so already. The general precident is that this will continue until anything and everything of value (ie; readilly convertable into dope) is gone. Should the punk(s) find you at home on one of their excursions, good luck; thanks to your Socialist Utopian "leadership", you will essentially be at their mercy... if they have any. Don't count on it. Even if you do get extremely lucky with the spray-paint, chances are that you will be sued into bankrupcy anb poverty, and may well face criminal charges yourself. There is one fellow in England serving life imprisonment for having the audacity to defend his life and family from a crowbar-weilding thug one night after his home had been violated about 6 times and ransacked of nearly all possesions of any value.

So it's not just an issue of tactical capability of self-defence; the judicial and social situation has a lot to do with it. Where criminals are coddled, their "rights" more scrupiously protected than those of their victims, and "another chance" being routinely extended, one does not have to be a social scientist to predict that predation will be a popular enteprise. Socialists, Nazis, and other despots by the way, seem to work closely and well with the criminal element. It helps to keep dissenters in line without getting blood on the hands of the "leadership" elite (not that Stalin cared much about that), and gives rise to public outcry for government - supplied "law and order"... which they gladly provide once the little people have abdicated or been stripped of their rights of self-defence. It's popularly known as a "Police State", where pickpockets are summarily hung, the trains run on time, and you'd damnwell better keep your trap shut if you don't like the way things are being run. And oh, yes; don't be a Jew.

There is a reason why we have a Constitution and Bill of Rights here in the States, and a darned good reason for that much-maligned 2nd Ammendment which the Liberals so fervently yearn to destroy and us dinosaurs of the NRA struggle so tenaciously to defend. It has something to do with the fact that our family can sleep pretty well at night with only 2 little lapdogs and a mangy old cat keeping watch. Predatory vermin may be stoned, they may be crazy.. but most of them are smart enough to know that if they get caught kicking in the door of a Maine home, there is a pretty good chance that they will be going back out in a rubber bag at room temperature.

Makes me kinda glad that our Ancestors sent those redcoats packing back in the 1780's, eh wot?

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:26 AM

Whilst I am not sugesting that anybody kill a burgalar, I have to admit that if I caught anybody breaking into my house, I would lose my temper and given the chance I would do more than just give him a good telling off.(I do not keep a loaded shotgun in my home as that would be illegal,although I have numerous other resources at my disposal!).john

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:39 AM

Wow.
Well I'm going to sleep well at night...
S'okay now. I haven't been burgled in 5 months, which I'm starting to think is a good average for a basement flat ina nice part of town. By the way, I never heard back from the police on either of the occasions after they took our statement. Not that I expected to. But I'd love to know how many burglary investigations (and I use that word in the loosest of senses) actually have a positive outcome.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:42 AM

Sadly very few.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:50 AM

Uncle Jaques, I like your kazoo idea from the other thread. There'd probably be some human rights ban on defending oneself with kazoo music though.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:57 AM

no... it's not the kazoo music that gets you into trouble, it's the dance moves...

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:11 AM

Actually, it is England that we should thank for our Bill of Rights. When King George insisted on quartering his troops in private homes, and, taking away firearms etc. we reacted way in the other direction. Uncle J. I AM A LIBERAL, and what we have against the NRA is its LIES! and its fear of ANY reasonable gun control law. I own a gun, and you bet your ass I would use it to defend my life or someone elses. However, if I caught someone stealing my stuff, there is no way I would put his life on the same level as my stuff. That's ridiculous.

Anyway, our so called "right to keep and bear arms" comes not from the Bill of rights, but from a strong gun lobby and a gutless congress.

A WELL REGULATED MILITIA...thats the part the gun nuts dont ever quote.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:24 AM

"This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only seize it with both hands and make the most of it." -- Al Capone

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:29 AM

John in Hull;

That, Sir, is known as "Deterrant"; that there may be a few "unenlightened" Subjects out there who just might become sufficiently indignant at being plundered and terrorized by these predatory vermin that they might momentarily lose sight of said vermin's precious "rights" and do something rather rash. They seem to intuitively know that despite the generous population of lawyers and barristers in Hell, successful appeals therefrom are remarkably few.
Even "liberal" social scientists who have honestly studied criminal behavior and statistics have had to grudgingly admit (although you won't hear it reported in the popular press) time after time that the optimum chances for survival of a criminal attack is to fight back, if at all possible. Of course big-brother government types don't want us to know this, as it compromises our total dependence upon them for our "security".

I would be surprised if a few punks being luggged out of flats with iron bolts sticking out of their tattooed chests or their gourds bashed in with a fire-poker would not drasticly reduce your crime rate for a while. Unfortunately the political climate over there, such as we are aware of it, would probably land a few innocent homeowners and tennants in "the Tower" for excersizing such initiative and Independance (remember what that fracas in the Colonies back in 1776 was about?), but their sacrifice would likely not be totally in vain. Another thing is that as I mentioned, only the law-abiding need be concerned about firearm bans. Do they actually prosecute and punish thugs over there on weapons violations? During our 8 years of the Klinton Kingdom, very few if any "real criminals" were held accountable for possession of guns - including sawed off shotguns, machineguns etc.., which is a pretty good indicator of just where "bigbro" is going with all these Subject pacification schemes. We understand that in Canada, by the way, where the politicos are trying to "pacify" Canadians, that there is a big (really big) problem with "non-compliance", especially in the rural areas. Bully for them! Apparantly they need to figure out how to get Canucks to surrender their courage and love of Freedom before they can get their guns away from them; no doubt they are working on it. Shortly after Klinton took over they tried to pull a "gun control" scheme in the US, and the message was loud and clear, especially from the West and Deep South; "You want our guns? Come and get 'em. Just bring body bags.. lots of body-bags!". They still take "Militia" seriously out there, and some of these rustic irregulars are reputed to have tanks, artillery, and heliocoptors at their disposal.. and have probably more actual combat experience behind them than in all of our standing Army. And Klinton and Komrades knew that if push came to shove, a good chunk if not most of the US Military would likely have gone over to the People for Liberty and it would've gotten messy for him (he didn't care a damn for the rest of us). He didn't push, and those of us who choose to still have our guns, and the punks think twice before they go kicking doors in.

Jeeze, I'd better be carefull; the next thing you know you Brits will be lusting after Freedom like us Yanks used to. Sad to say, most of us seem to have gotten over it. I think the public government factory monopoly forced "school" system had something to do with that. Marx said it would, and b'gosh, it seems he was on to something there.

Hang tough, Mate, & try not to let the buggers get ye down!

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Sgt. Strait
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:40 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 2nd amendment also refers to the "right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms." Many people interpret that as both complimentary to, and distinct from, reference to a "militia," which, by the way could often include damn near everybody who owned a gun a that time.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: SharonA
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:52 AM

The only burgling I've been subject to is a car break-in. Apparently the burglar was either very young or very stupid (or both): he (they?) broke the driver's window and tried to pop the ignition to steal the car but only succeeded in breaking off one of the plastic flanges where the key goes in. So he popped the hood and stole the battery, and also took a small cassette-tape case. (He also smashed a window in the car beside mine, but apparently had to run before any more damage could be done there.)

Aside from the annoyance of calling the police from a neighbor's phone (I'd just moved into the apartment and hadn't hooked up the phone yet), the car-insurance hassle, the hassle of replacing the window-glass and battery, and the hassle of picking pieces of glass out of the car for the rest of its life, I was really upset at the thought that the thief probably threw away my tapes once he found they contained Patsy Cline songs and hammered dulcimer music!

Neighbors were no help ("We heard the thumping across the lot but we didn't look to see what it was"). Best deterrent to having the ignition damaged would have been "The Club" but it wouldn't have saved the window or battery. However, I did learn where NOT to park – under the trees – in the lot at my new apartment building! From then on I parked in the open, as close to the neighbors' windows as I could (even if they didn't look, the next potential thief might assume they would)!

Still, it took a while before I lost that he's-coming-back-to-get-me-tonight feeling.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 02:03 PM

Mudcat FILTER searches on:

insur

protect

... will bring up a lot of good stuff.

~S~

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:40 PM

I am also, I suppose, a Liberal. But I also own a WWII Infantryman's friend, The M=1 (Garand) 30=6 rifle. (the horrid "Semi=automatic-asaul;t rifle") It is not for burglars or anything like that, I hold a 5th degree black belt. (shotokan) But, that's not for burglars either. I live in a city where there is virtually no serious crime. No one locks their doors at night (unless they're from NYC) Our Polic Department is peopled by the most even tmepered bunch of people you' d ever meet. You have to really work hard to get arrested. We have more cops than we need, year round, because our main industry is tourism. They have from Labor day to the next Memorial day to save up their "Cool" because they work their asses off in the summer time

I DO NOT BELONG TO THE NRA, ALTHOUGH I USED TO. I cancelled my membership when it became apparent that they were just another extreme right arm of the Republican Party. Their agenda is, not to convince lawmakers of the folly of restrictive gun legislation, but it is to elect Republicans to office. Their are some very convincing arguments again gun legislation, mostly the fact that breaking the law is what criminals do best, and they will be armed while the rest of the population is disarmed.
Insdtead of spending some money bringing reasonable argumentsw to the attention of lawmakers, they worked their little devious asses off getting Bush (who it turns out isn't such a boogeyman, after all ) elected as president.

What do I do with my M-1? Every now and then when I get really fed up with $19,99 price tags and "buy one get one free", but wait, that's not all". etc etc etc, I take my M=1 out to the Tiverton Rod and Gun Club's rifle range, load up the old M-1 and shoot holes in pieces of paper with circles drawn on them.

What about rhe Karate? I teach "bad-assed" kids in the Providence Rhode Island Public Schools how to kill with empty hands, and, like magic they quit being bad asses. Their grades go up, they think a lot more of themselves, they quit mouthing off to their teachers, they form strong friendships that would ,previously, have been virtually impossible. Like between hispanic and black teen agers. What my master, Linc Martin, who is big black and mean looking (and once was a mean s.o.b.) and has a 6th degree in shotokan, 7th degree in Kempo and black belts in Aikido, Judo, Jiu Jitsu and Kung-Fu, and I are doing in Providence is the one thing I've done with my life that I am proudest of.
Our data is available to any educator who wants it. THE RESULTS OF KARATE TRAINING ON BAD PEOPLE NEVER MAKES THEM WORSE. NEVER. IT ALWAYS HAS A POSITIVE EFFECT. GO FIGURE.

Sincerely
Jody Gibson

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:33 PM

The main fallacy of protecting ones home from robbers is, that they usually strike when we are not home. So, what good is a gun?

I hate to agree with any right winger, but, the fact is, guns are not the problem. Everyone in Switzerland has a gun, yet there is no crime problem there. The problem is people, lack of impulse control, no respect for people or property, the horrors of drug addiction which drives people to kill and rob. The type of government has nothing to do with it. Guns are just tools, no guilt, they dont give a damn one way or the other. It's the human being that has possession of that gun that is either decent or no damn good. There should be a law against bad people.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:23 PM

Well ahoy there, Cranky! Say, didn't you leave out the part about your being the Exalted Grand Master of your Blue Lodge for the past 36 years? Well, that's OK; next time.

Sorry you feel that way about the NRA; I also quit some years ago when Wayne LaPierre started referring to federal Agents as "Jack-booted Nazi-helmeted thugs" and the like. At the time, it seemed that that assessment was a bit harsh. Then came Ruby Ridge, then Waco, then a terrified little 7-year-old Illian Gonzalez with a 9MM MP-5 submachinegun stuck in his face (after Janet El-Renio had promised that they would not use force to take the boy)... and I submitted my application back to the NRA with my letter of appology. It seems that Mr. LaPierre wasn't all that far off after all. And I did what I could to help pro-Constitution Candidates win elections at home and in DC. You might be surprised to find how many Democrats and 3rd Party Candidates were endorsed by the NRA before the election, by the way... if you were to expose yourself to factual information, rather than what Jennings and Brokaw tell you. Fact is, near as I can make out (and I've been studying this stuff) the alternative to your despised Republican was a continuation of an "administration" (I tend to use the term "syndicate" more often) that has done probably more damage to America's National Security and moral integrity than any other, and had the potential of bringing us down to 3rd - World status and catastrophic economic collapse. Degeneration of American society into a police state tyranny was not out of the question at all. If that makes me/us "devious", well, I guess we'll just have to live with that, won't we.

As to Karate or similar martial arts, it is indeed good conditioning for body and mind and a worthy sport. Strangely, it seems that there is a crucial distinction between the gym (I know there's a lovely oriental term for the place Karate is practiced.. "Domo"? I'm guessing...) and the cold, hard street. A young man who is a good friend of my Wife's family moved to NYC to service and sell pianos. He took Karate and held a 4th or 5th degree BlackBelt. One night going through the park, he got mugged. To his total dismay, he "froze up" and couldn't remember any of his tricks. The thugs beat and strangled him damnear to death because he didn't have enough money on him for a "fix". A reenacor friend had a close pal in the city who was also considered a "Master" martial artist. One night he returned to his apartment and surprised 2 burglars who went after him with knives. The police investigation suggested that after cutting mr. karate up pretty well, they left. Bleeding profusely, he managed to crawl over to the phone to dial 911, whereupon the hoodlums came back for another load, and finished him off. they said his hands and arms were cut to ribbons by his vain attempts to block the slashes and stabs. There was no indications that either of the perps were harmed in the least. I have a few more annecdotes, but will spare you; the upshot is that some guy has one of those black-belts and thinks he's pretty hot stuff, until he runs up against some street toughs in the real world and gets his butt kicked in... or worse. Having said that, I think it's commendable to train reasonably sane youngsters in any sport that inculcates self-discipline and control. And as far as teaching Karate to felons in prison; you may think it's a wonderful idea and will convert them all to productive Citizens, but i'd rather see them coming out with a master's degree in ballet, thank you very much. If they need excersize with which to vent their aggression, surely there must be some rocks to bust up or wood to split. By the time they get to the "big house", about the only thing weight rooms and martial arts training does for 'em is make them much better at intimidating, terrorizing and beating future victims after they get out - or the police who attempt to re-arrest them.

I'm glad that you observed that President Bush is not the "boogyman" that you were led to beleive he was supposed to be. The next time you are popping a few rounds with the old M-1, you may just have the "devious Republicans" and the NRA to thank for the priviledge; had AlGore et al assumed the throne and El Reino kept the keys to the InJustice Dept., it may well have been doomed to the smeltering furnace by now.

And hey, "Cranky"; next time tell us about how you levitate again. That is SO cool!

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:51 PM

Uncle J, I must take exception to your ravings. The fact is, and I can prove it, LaPierre is a LIAR! I wrote and nailed him to the wall on his bullshit, and I received no answer. Like you, I used to belong to the NRA but, when I found out what a bunch of siege mentality apes they were, I quit. Now, Ruby ridge. Waco, all that could have been avoided if the creeps had simply obeyed the law! What the hell was the authorities to do? let him get away with selling an illegal weapon? or just forget that he failed to appear in court? If he had just obeyed the friggin' law, there would never have been any shooting. I must say, that trigger happy bastard who shot the dog really pissed me off.

The Elian Gonzales case...that officer did not point that rifle at the kid. He pointed it at the man who was trying to hide him from the law. There again, if they had simply obeyed the law, there would have been no trouble. Of course it's always easier to lay the blame than to work on a solution to a problem.

Who the hell were they (the Cuban refugees) to decide where the boy should live? So, they hate Castro, why? because he couldn't tolerate those who exploited his people. That's what a revolution is all about, getting rid of the people who maintain a system which keeps the poor in virtual slavery. There is no doubt in any thinking mind that Cuba is far better off today than it was under Baptista. It is unlikely that Elian will be gunned down on a Miami street by some drugged out animal.

Now, be clear on this, I am NOT attacking you, I am disagreeing with your statements. Big Difference. BTW what happened to MAV?

Waco, I believe the tear gas bombs were what set off the fire, not the wackos inside.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 08:19 AM

uh oh! oops...

can we just get back to talking about kazoos

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 08:28 AM

Sorry, I do get carried away!

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 09:39 AM

Penalty for getting carried away should be to write and post a new song on the topic. Like the $5 for whining. Song tax. Paying the troll off with a song. (Not saying anyone here was trolling, don't even go there!)

~Susan

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 09:46 AM

A good crime prevention tip is to get one of them lights that switch on and off by themselves, Iv'e got one.It was about 10 pounds.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 10:36 AM

Fibula,

The best way to prevent crime is to avoid situations and circumstances where you are vulnerable. You obviously live in an area where there are lot of burglaries--move to another area, where it is safer. Don't believe anyone that tells you it is the same everywhere--it isn't--There are actually relatively few "High Crime" areas, though if you listen to the likes of lovable old Uncle Jaque, you would think that no one is safe anywhere--

When you live in an area where you have to look over your shoulder all the time, the stress alone wears you out. It is like gambling in a casino--you may get lucky at first, but over time, the odds catch up with you--and you stop thinking about "if", and start thinking about "when"--Is it worth it to live like that?

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 10:51 AM

Ah, M.Ted, that's the thing - I live in a lovely neighbourhood - very safe indeed, and really convenient to the university. That's the problem you see - a number of affluent houseowners (myself firmly NOT included) and a number of student dwellings occupied only in term time. I live there all year round, and there's usually someone in the house all the time (hence the burglar disturbing someone the second time). Both break-ins have been opportune thefts - quick grabbing of valuables that can be sold immediately for drugs. It appears that's the usual pattern in England for burglaries (it was never like that in Belfast, let me tell you!). It's a beautiful area, and I really don't want to move at all. I'm just angry that people can get away with such behaviour.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 04:22 AM

Kendal, I know that you're honestly inspired in your beliefs, and I applaud your desire to make the world a "Weapomless" and therefore more peaceful place. But Hard realities simply do not make this a realistic goal. For one thing, The thing that criminals do best is "Break the Law" They will be armed, even if no one else is. Especially if no one else is.
The constitution was not written for "Legal Professionsals" It was writtem in plain English so that everyone could understand what it says. You must, however, understand what the terms stated in our Constitution meant, AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS WRITTEN. For instance, Militia, is a plural word (Latin)that includes every able bodied person between the ages of 16 nand 60, capable of bearing and using weapons.
"Well Ordered" Meant , "Well Trained". The people who wrote the Constitution didn't give a rats ass about deer hunting, The words "Sporting weaponry" does not appear anywhere in the entire document. They meant "Arms", Military hardware, Why? So as to maintain our Liberties against all opressors, even our own Government, which I hardly believe will be necessary anytime in the near future.
These "Arms" and a well ordered Militia werent intended to protect our households from robbery. They're actually useless for that purppose, though occasionally, an armed citizen does deter a criminal act, but these cases are very few and far between.
Kendal, I hope you know that I would never try to deceive you, what I've stated above is cold hard fact.
Here's another: Historians date the beginning of the "Dark Ages", when civilazation practically ceased to exist, from the "Nika Rebellion". Two Christian factions, disagreeing on whether or not Jesus had brothers and sisters,.took up arms and began slaughtering eachother. Most were well trained ex military. For some reason or other, they forgot their differences and joined forces, They gathered in the "Hippodrome" in Constantinople at a time when all of Rome's Legions were out fighting Goths or Visigoths or something. The Emperor bel;ieved that all was lost (Justinian the Great) and fled the palace. The Great "Belisarius" , 200 "Comitatti" (the household guard) and 250 barbarian mercenaries, with every expectation that they were sacrificing their lives to give the Emperor and his household time to get safely away, entered the Hippodrome from opposite gates, locked the gates behind them and proceeded to do battle. They first expended their stock of arrows and then charged into the mob. The rebellious rabble panicked, and turned on eachother, leaving Bellisarious , the Comitatti and the barbarian mercenaries staring at eachother over the bodies of about 10,000 rebels.

And then, Capt Kendall, The "not so great Justinian" ORDERED THAT THE ROMAN POPULATION BE DISARMED, WHICH LEFT THEM AT THE MERCY OF THE BARBARIAN HORDES WHO, WITHOUT DELAY, FELL ON THE DEFENSELESS ROMANS, DESTROYED THEIR CIVILAIZATION AND PLUNGED THE WORLD INTO DARKNESS. Which is exactly what will happen to us if we are disarmed./

Kendall, good friend (I hope) don't take my word for this, go to the L:ibrary and look up the "Nikka (or Nika) Rebellion" and what happened in it's aftermath.

I hope we can meet sometime in the future, you strike me as being a person I'd like to strike up a friendship with If your anywhere around Windsor Locks, Connecticut this Sunday, (Just south of Springfield, Mass.) I'm performing at the "Hartland Hollow Bluegrass Festival". at Berg Field, East Hartland, Conn I'll be doing some "old Time" banjo stuff, ( Dave Macon-Grandpa Jones stuff) but, mostly, and with the blessings of the promoter, introducing Maritime Folk Music to a hardcore bluegrass audience. I did the "Prospect Mountain Bluegrass Festival;" (same production Co.) a couple of weeks ago. It was a three day afair, and I did just that. They loved the Maritime stuff./ I jammed with a bluegrass group named, "Shady Creek" after Saturday evenings concert, until the wee hours of Sunday Morning. They were in the audience during my Sunday Afternoon stint, and they were requesting things like Farewell To Tarwaithe and Can't You Dance the Polka. If you think you can make it, drop me a PM and I'll give you detailed instructions on how to get there./ There'll be an open stage after the regular performance when Bill Flagg, Roger Sprung, My Wife Donna and I will be jamming with whoever wants to join in.

Failing that, maybe we can get together and sit on HMS Rose some evening and swap songs until they throw us off.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:09 AM

nyone trained in any of the traditional styles, Shotokan, Kempo,. Uichi-Ryu, Tai-Kwan-Do Go=Ju= Shorei, etc, would never put themselves in a polition where they could be drawn into a violent encounter. The guy in the park whouldn't have been in the park, by himself, if at all, and the guy who surprised the burglars should have turned around, fled and called the police. To quote the great Gichin Funakoshi, the father of modern Japanese Traditional Karate, "Karate is not about, 'who wins or loses' but the perfection of the characte of it's participants."
There is only one allowable reason to employ the physical aspects of our training, and that is, "In the Defense of Justice" If I were to use my skills for any other reason, such as to protect my property, or in answer to an insult, or to protect my wifes good name, NONE OF MY FRIENDS WOULD EVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN. And, that includes allowing myself to be in a situation with a potential for violence.
You would not believe the deadly force that a human being is capable of when trained outside the "instinctive" way that men fight to see which one is stronger. The Chop-Sockey schools terach what they call "self defense tedchniques" which are overly elaborate series of movements that only work if the oponent does exactly what he is supposed to do. If there is no possible excape, and a true Karate-ka is forced to defend himself (or herself) from a knife weilding attacker, op group of attackers, it is absurdly easy to dislocate their respective kneecaps AND THEN RUN LIKE HELL. Without ever getting within knife weilding range. This leaves no permanent damage. Using "only enough and no more" to extricate oneself from a violent situation. could be excused if there is absolutely no alternative.

Look, Uncle Jaque, old friend, this is too complex a subject to adequately describe what real traditiopnal Karate is like in this post, so I'll send you a PM. and go into it more thoroughly. You might find this interesting enough to sign up in a TRADITIONAL shool.

Sincerely
Jody Gibson

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:18 AM

Uncle Jaque:

(cont'd from previous)
Tomorrow, that is, it's getting very sleepy out, about now.

By the way, I think people will take your posts a lot more seriously if you can the sarcasm.
Sarcasm is ok, if the post is not as serious as this one.

Your friend (I hope)
Jody Gibson

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 08:13 AM

Cranky, your point is well taken. However, your microscopic examination slid over the most important phrase, WELL REGULATED... The only thing that comes close to the original militia is the National Guard. Anyway, I am not a gun nut. My manhood is not wrapped up in weapons of war. I do own a hand gun, and, it would take a SWAT team to get it away from me as long as I live in a country where violence is rampant. If I could wave a magic wand to make all hand guns disappear, I would do it in a heart beat.

So, I have also found that Bluegrass audiences like folk music. I have performed at many of them, and they seem to appreciate the break from hard driving, all sound alike, one band after another formats.

I dont expect to get down your way in the near future, but, I would also like to meet you.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 10:30 AM

Stick to the banjo stuff, Jody--Justinian expanded the Byzantine Empire to it's greatest size--he died in 565AD and his Empire did not collapse into "darkness", even then--it lasted until 1453--Western Europe may have gone into the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome(which was before the time of Justinian, in about 462 or something), but the Byzantine Empire definitely did not--

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST,Sgt. Strait
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:10 AM

"Well-Regulated" may refer to the militia in the second amendment, but, as I indicated in an earlier post, the militia was derived from the greater population (i.e. the PEOPLE) whose right to own arms is clearly stated.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 12:17 PM

Of course it says the right of the people..a militia is made up of people. And it also says A WELL REGULATED militia. Please address that phrase,

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:07 PM

Militias were organized according to a military model in terms of officers, NCOs, periodic drills, regulations, etc. Hence "well-regulated." However, while the militia was well-regulated, the people maintained fundamental rights of firearm ownership which made the existence of the militia possible.

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 12:10 AM

Subject: RE: NonMusic: Crime prevention - pleeeease
From: Gareth
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM

Mmmm ! I have before me a compensation order issued by Caerphilly Magistrates against two yobs who stole and trashed my car last year. The order is 12 months old.

PC Plod got lucky - The doors jamed and the little B****ds could not run for it when the Police showed up.

Needless to say I have not seen a penny of compensation, and I suspect that writing to the Court would just be a waste of a stamp.

I doubt if the fines have been paid either. My only consolation is that one of the S*** was remanded in custody, he was already on bail for a similar offence.

Gareth