Origins: John o' Dreams (Bill Caddick)

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:30 AM

vectis - Les's ditty uses the tune of "John o' Dreams' - see the midi via the DT link to J. o' Dreams at the top of the page

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: GUEST,Roy
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:26 AM

Ta for the biscuits.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: vectis
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 06:27 PM

Tine please to les's ditty
Mary

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Watson
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 05:08 AM

Gurney, Bill has never claimed that he wrote the tune. He has always acknowledged it was from Tchaikovsky.
...and how does someone born half-way between Wolverhampton and Dudley, now living in Shropshire become a Brummie?

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 02:47 AM

The tune to John-O-Dreams may have distant origins, but I heard a recording once of the exact tune, except for the last note of the repeated last line, and the credit was given to two lads from Glenn Miller's trumpet section.

It was on the radio, I was driving, and I've never bothered to verify.
This was just a few years after Bill wrote it.

I suspect that at one stage Bill thought HE wrote the tune, because somewhere I have a song sheet saying "Words and music by Bill Caddick"
Yo carn't trust Brummies nohow!

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:17 PM

It's also an old Clam Chowder favorite; there's a nice version on their SALVAGED CD.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:15 PM

Before anyone asks, Huntley and Palmer was a British biscuit manufacturer... they were taken over by Nabisco in 1982, and ceased trading in 1989...

How's that for thread creep?!

Subject: DTADD: Custard Creams (Les Barker)
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:06 PM

CUSTARD CREAMS
(Les Barker)

Those midnight snacks bring what you always dread.
Crumbs in your blanket and your feather bed.
Crumbs without number
Keep you from slumber;
Yield up the night time to old custard creams.
Yield up the night time to old custard creams.

The late night sandwich and the ginger nut
Stick in your shoulder, lie underfoot.
Huntley and Palmer
There is no armour
Yield up the darkness to old custard creams
Yield up the darkness to old custard creams.

Barm cakes and biscuits, whole loaves of bread
Mate on your mattress, breed in your bed
One million croutons
All on one futon
And down your duvet there's old custard creams
And down your duvet there's old custard creams.

I think I know now why my mother said
That gentlemen don't take tarts to bed
And when you're restive
Blame the digestive
You'll find no comfort with old custard creams
You'll find no comfort with old custard creams.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: GUEST,Roy
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 12:43 PM

Just browsin' this thread,where did lyrics for Custard Creams and Reg o' Dreams go.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams - favorite version
From: mmb
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 05:28 PM

My all-time favorite version of this song is on Vol II, Track 5 of Bok, Muir & Trickett: The First 15 Years (Folk Legacy, 1992). Their harmonies and accompaniment are so delicate!
    When I first heard them perform it years ago, part of the intro was that John O-Dreams was a metaphor for Sleep, the Great Equalizer, needed by all persons, whatever their station in life.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 02:20 PM

I have spoken to my contact and will be able to supply custard creams
and the latest parody(I dont know if its Reg)in a few days,so hang fire there,catters.unless someone else comes up with it first

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Watson
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 01:58 PM

That Len Basker wot rote Custard Creams sends Bill other alternative versions from time to time.
Next time you see Mr Caddick, ask him to do Reg o' Dreams, the song about John's lesser known brother.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 08:00 AM

And its nice to know Bill is still out there.I've not seem him for too long.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:52 AM

I Knowsomeone who has ALL of Les Barkers Books. Iwill try to get
Custard Creams for the Cat

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:45 AM

Bill performed this song plus many others off his new CD, 'Unicorns' at the Open Door Extravaganza 3 yesterday...sgame a few more people wern't there to enjoy it!
Jane and Amanda Threlfall, Roam and Martin Carthy are on today (see Manchester Extravaganza 3 thread ) - - get along if you can - - treat yourselves!

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: John Routledge
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:43 PM

I have just heard the author of John o' Dreams singing it at Manchester Extravaganza.
Bill admitted he didn't know where the Shakespeare reference was.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:30 PM

Gawd I knew the 'Cat'was fast,but I didnt expect to get so much so
fast.Thanks,Joe,and all the other Catters . Especially as I lost the argument.I always thought it was from Sleeping Beauty.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:24 PM

Sounds fun - can anybody post lyrics to "Custard Creams"?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM

Bill Caddick now sings the parody of his own song that was written by Les Barker, about eating biscuits in bed (Custard Creams).

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 06:58 PM

Hi, Leadfingers. I moved you over to this thread, which has the answer to your question (Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6, Pathetique; lyrics copyright Bill Caddick, 1967). Hope you don't mind. I'll also cross-link to related threads.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Tune Req: John O Dreams-Bill Caddick
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 06:42 PM

I've just had an argument about the tune Bill used for John O Dreams.
I think we agreed it was Peter Ilyitch,but which piece??? Help Please
without going through all of Tchaikovski's work.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 26 Sep 97 - 11:12 AM

John-a-dreams is mentioned in HAMLET, Act 2, scene 2, line 568. The only gloss I can find for the reference is that, in Shakespeare's day it was used to refer to a "sleepy, dreaming idler." I'll check more sources later.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Wolfgang (Hell)
Date: 26 Sep 97 - 04:22 AM

To improve upon what I wrote yesterday from memory, here is what Mick Moloney writes on the cover of a vinyl from '78:
"This is another I learned from Sean Cannon. The words were written by Bill Caddick from Wolverhampton. The tune he took from Peter Tchaikovsky's...Pathetique. However, Sean Cannonwas informed by Toni Savage, who studied opera and belcanto in Italy, that the tune was borrowed by the Russion composer from a Southern Italian lullaby entitled Piva Piva [any help, Ezio, or other Italians?]. So, in a remarkable way, the tune has come full circle."
After typing this I found that the gist of this information can actually be found in the notes to this song in the database. I'm impressed. Nevertheless I'll submit it, since maybe not everybody looks it up there.
Wolfgang

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Jon W.
Date: 25 Sep 97 - 11:06 AM

From the context of the song, my guess would be a mythical figure not unlike The Sandman. I.E. dreams personified. The song seems to be simply a wish for the listener to have pleasant dreams. Your Shakespearean reference might shed a little more light. Who was the character John A'Dreams? What play?

I like the song a lot, seems like a great one to end a concert with.

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Ron
Date: 25 Sep 97 - 10:25 AM

Thanks for the info re: Pathetique. Still, as to the lyrics - who was, who is, or what was John o' Dreams?

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Wolfgang (Hell)
Date: 25 Sep 97 - 07:26 AM

It is the main theme of the second part of that symphony.

And Tchaikovsky took it from an Italian folksong (source of that information: Mick Moloney). Wolfgang

Subject: RE: John O' Dreams
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 97 - 01:07 AM

Hi, Ron, it's adapted from Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6, Pathetique.
-Joe Offer-

---

Here are the lyrics we have in the Digital Tradition. Any corrections?

JOHN OF DREAMS (from DT)
(Bill Caddick)
C F C / C F C / C G Am / C F C / C F C

When midnight comes, good people homeward tread;
Seek now your blankets and your feather bed.
Home is the rover, his journey's over.
Yield up the nighttime to old John of Dreams,
Yield up the nighttime to old John of Dreams.

Across the hills the sun has gone astray;
Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away
Home is the rover, her journey's over.
Yield up the darkness to old John of Dreams,
Yield up the darkness to old John of Dreams.

Both man and master in the night are one;
All things are equal when the day is done.
The Prince and the plowman, the slave and the freeman.
All find their comfort in old John of Dreams,
All find their comfort in old John of Dreams.

Now as you sleep the dreams come winging clear;
The hawks of morning cannot harm you here.
Sleep is a river, flows on forever,
And for your boatman choose old John of Dreams,
And for your boatman choose old John of Dreams.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Words copyright by Bill Caddick, Music by Tchaikovsky (tune
borrowed from a southern Italian lullabye entitled Piva Piva).

Recorded on Fashioned in the Clay, FSI-104, Gordon Bok, Ann Mayo
Muir, and Ed Trickett. Also recorded by Mick Maloney on the
Green Linnet label, SIF-1010.

filename[ DREAMJON
TUNE FILE: DREAMJON
CLICK TO PLAY
DC

---

Here's one Italian song entitled "Piva Piva." Does it sound like the theme from Pathetique at all? Not to me. You decide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aSUFDGG-Sc

Subject: John O' Dreams
From: Ron
Date: 25 Sep 97 - 12:54 AM

The words to John o' Dreams were set to Tchaikovsky's music. Anyone know which Tchaikovsky piece. Also, to who or to what does John o' Dreams refer? The only other reference I can find is in Shakespeare where he refers to John a' Dreams.