Shakespeare a doper ?

Subject: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:27 AM

Re the recent findings of dope pipes on a former property of the famous bard, "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" on CBC TV reported last night the this gave new meaning to his oft quoted and immortal ponderance, "Doobie or not doobie,..."

g

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:33 AM

Oh Goodie, we can rewrite history again, and keep a lot of scribblers busily employed. Hey the doxie over the dell. The scribbler that made that last word dale either had his head up his a-s or expurgated the line.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:44 AM

I thought the thread title was a sequel to "Shakespeare In Love."

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: sledge
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:37 AM

This was reported in the UK press last week and all that could really be said, was they may be from the period of Shakespear. The pipes in question are not from any known archeological dig, but are exhibits in a museum the origins of which are not known.

Still, it would explian a lot.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 09:46 AM

Yep, he probably was. That's news?

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 11:45 AM

It would certainly explain "A Midsummer Night's Dream"

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 11:51 AM

well, d'uh?!?!?! Big surprise... him, and everybody else in that day and age who could afford it!!! What does it matter???

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:54 PM

Does that mean that if I smoke some drugs I, too, can write like Shakespeare?

It didn't work in the 60's & 70's (and occasionally in the 80's, but rarely in the 90's) but you can always hope!

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM

Pipe dreams can explain just about anything. One may be proved correct some day. Just look at the falacious 'histories' we have on many folk songs and nursery rhymes. As for shakespeare, I've alway thought that Mark Twain (another pseudonym) got it about right when he said Shakespeare's works were written by another man of the same name.

I got a surprise when I was working at the Folger Shakespeare library. The prolific S. Schoenbaum seemed to be the only researcher that was working on Shakespeare. Subject matter ran from ancient Irish hill forts through subject matter of works published by 16th century English printer/publishers, to 16th century lute music. The coffee room (officially the Founders Room) has the largest collection of old Shakespeare portraits in the world. It's well nigh impossible that any of the painters ever saw Shakespeare.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:15 PM

Does that mean that if I smoke some drugs I, too, can write like Shakespeare?

No, but if true it might suggest that, if you can write like Shakespeare, you can smoke dope and still write like Shakespeare.

Since it appears they were smoking grass back then, why the hell did tobacco catch on instead? We've always been told that nobody in the Old World smoked anything until they got the idea from America, so assuming that's true (bit is it?), to explain traces of cannabis in a pipe in Stratford somebody in must have picked up on this new fashion, and decided to experiment with something locally grown and cheap, instead of this foul smelling pricey stuff they were importing. So how come after that anyone bothered with tobacco?

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:34 PM

For the same reason that so many are hooked on the crap today - marketing. Sir Walter "discovered" it and Sir Pusher marketed it.

BTW, if you ever get a chance to hear Bob Newhart's album upon which there is a telephone call between Sir Walter and the English Monarch about Walty buying three shiploads of leaves, you will roar with laughter. Bob always was the king of the one-sided telephone call.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:49 PM

That Newhart one was a classic. That and Lou Costello's eating oyster stew are my all time favorite comedies. I suspect Rawly (as he wrote it) also brought back potatoes. There were many phamplets written telling about all the dire consequences of actually eating such vile things. One expressed the belief that it was poison and it was a plot by the English government to kill off all the Irish so England could sent their excess population to an empty Ireland. Reading them now is as funny as Newhart's 'But Walt, come fall, and we're up to our a-s in leaves over here.'

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Sarah2
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM

I always find this "exposé" attitude of the press makes me think of Boswell's Life of Johnson. Boswell quotes Sir Joshua Reynolds as saying, after Johnson's death, "Now that the old lion is dead, every ass thinks he may kick at him."

They all seem to want to diminish greatness wherever they find it. If Shakespeare toked up a few, it wouldn't surprise me to find it was to rest his brain...

Sarah

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Gervase
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 06:28 AM

Culpepper, almost a contemporary of Shakespeare's, was in no doubts as to the beneficial nature of hemp, along with many other herbal remedies that today we have forgotten (or are only just rediscovering, as in the case of hypericum and Evening Primrose...).
Thus if he did smoke dope, it was probably for a specific reason rather than simply to get stoned. I dare say he enjoyed the side effects though...

(and what was it called before Bruce Robinson invented the Camberwell Carrot?)

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:02 AM

I beleive Newhart also talks about the potatoes on the same track. My favourite tobacco line is, after rolloing the leaves in paper and placing in the mouth..."Let me guess now Walt, you light on fire..."

gnu

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:18 AM

you light IT on fire..." ... Tea time.

g

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:21 AM

Oh gnu! I have heard that bit only once in my life and I have never forgot it! HYSTERICAL! :-D

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM

Actually, pot-smoking was quite popular prior to the switch to tobacco. Raleigh himself was a heavy viper, as can be seen in this brief snippet from his My First Voyage to the American Colonies.

"We rose early to view the completion of our vessel's loading, and I spake with Mr Coombing about the matter of marihuanha, and whether he had procured some for the officers. He replied that indeede he had obtained some of the finest knowne from an Arab of his aquaintance. We were shortly underway, and I invited several of the officers to the taffrail to share a communal pipefulle. We then adjourned to our various duties.

I begann the plotting of our course, but had difficulty with my compasse, accidently stabbing myselfe in the thumb with its sharpe end. I went to find the ship's medico in the forecastle, but on the way passed the cooke, who was busy preparing a stew for dinner. Several officers were standinge very near the boiling kettle, there eyes quite glassy, and their conversation ramblyng and boisterous. They were stabbyng potatoes out of the stew pot and attempting to eat them, but soon fell to flynging them at one another, and chasing each othere about the deck. I felt that this behaviour was unbecoming and not appropriate before the Crew, who had gathered to watche. I meant to shout an order to them to belay their horseplaye, but could only manage "drop ye your spuds!" which seemed such an odd statement that both I and the besmotted officers fell into hysterics.

I then recalled my original intente to find the medico, and went forward, where I stopped for some time to admire our several polished cannon, which to my eyes had never had such a high polish. I called for the Gunner's Mate to complement him on the effective execution of his duties. It took him some time to get there, and I diverted myself by trying various nautical knots in a piece of line that was curled upon the deck, using my own calf in place of a tying-post. When the Gunner's Mate arrived, I regret to say that I had forgotten entirely why I had summoned him, but was able to use his skills in helping me to dis-entangle my leg from a particularly intricate and troublesome knot I had managed to tie.

It was a great misfortune that, when we had nearly untied the knot, the First Mate, who was under the sway of the marihuanha, gave order for the ship to come about. I immediately felt myself being hoisted out over the gunnel as the saile caught the wind. I had by accidente tied my leg to the portside maine sheet, and was thus some time suspendede over the rolling brine to my consternation and the amusement of the crewe.

As a result of these experiences, I must advise that the marihuanha is not the ablest choice for maritime use, tobacco being muche preferred

by your humble servante

Sir Walter Raleigh"

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:20 PM

Of course hemp has been around for yonks, for making canvas sails and so forth, and so forth, and hashish has a long history. The innovation in the 16th century was thye idea of smoking anything.

The shame is thety picked the worse one to make culturally acceptable. As John Lennon put it "curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git."

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:22 PM

ROTFL, LEJ!

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Fiolar
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:28 PM

The latest wrinkle in the Shakespeare saga is that his plays may have been written by Christopher Marlowe. Marlowe is now alleged to have faked his own death and his killer was pardoned just under a month later by Queen Liz. The plays of Shakespeare" then began to appear. Yea - just like King Arthur and his knights are really asleep and waiting to rise in England's hour of need. Although why a Celtic warlord should want to help the descendants of the people whom he fought against during his life is anybody's guess.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 01:12 AM

Note from LEJ's quote, at the end, that Rawly even learned to spell his name the American way.

My God, has that Marlow bit been revived again? That's been a popular one for ages. It igores the fact that many (maybe most) of Shakespere's plays were written after Marlow died! Next we'll probably have Sir Francis Bacon again. Hey I got it! Dr. Faustus in memorial to Marlow for writing his history came back and did the plays as a bit of ghost-writing.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Monashee
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:38 AM

I am surprised to see that no one has yet mentioned Francis Bacon in this thread! ;) Compare Will's and his portrait..now that sure gets ya wondering eh? Check out Manly P. Hall's book - 'The Secret Teachings of All Ages- Masonic Hermetic Qabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy', there is a great section in there about it.(Would a rose by any other name.....)The history of Canabis Sativa, Indica, and Hemp is long and varied. Indeed throughout time it has been used as a medicine as Gervase points out about its mention in Culpepper's work. It would be no surprise to me to find out that Shakespeare partook. Live free~ (pardon all my poor spelling)

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Fiolar
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:00 PM

Shakespeare wouldn't have minded the spelling - after all there are several variations in the spelling of his surname. :-)

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:21 PM

Ah Hahhh! So finally we know what was in that "bag" that the Oxfordists claim was originally in Shakespeare's lap!

One of the best times I've had on the net was reading the volumes of stuff about "who really wrote the plays?" One thing that was sited over and over again was that the original monument to Will (in Stratford) portrayed him as a humble grain merchant, with a sack of wheat on his lap. When they realized the potential for tourist bucks, the "sack" was replaced by a "writer's pillow"(!!?) Whether you think the authorship question is a lot of hooey (I reserve judgement, as long as the debators continue to be entertaining) or not, it's fun to read what folks like Twain, Gielgud, Hopkins etc. have to say.

bard

I'll tell you this much though, I've rarely encountered a writer or musician who'd turn down free dope. Can't say about "grain merchants" though.

Rick

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:22 PM

Until the arrival on the scene of The Oxford English Dictionary in the 1800s, along with Webster's and other tomes, spelling was a rather subjective art, being held to no known standards. Johnson's earlier work was primarily a satirical piece. Thus we find that many individuals spelled common words, and their names as well, in a multiplicity of variations.

By the way, I saw recently that an American Lexicographer had been added to the OED staff, and was responsible for the addition of such new terms as "yo", "scuz-bucket", and "master of the universe".

Yo! Thank goodness the old scuz-buckets at the OED have finally come to their senses. What's next...the Oxford American Dictionary?

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Fiolar
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 01:16 PM

A "writer's pillow" may well be a pillow which was stuffed with lavender. I understand that this was used fairly regularly as an aid to sleep.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM

I think it was a bag of money. Will was no dope. He was a full partner in his company, not just an actor. He retired early, took the money, and went back to the countryside.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 05:19 PM

To me the thing about Shakespeare that really captures the imagination is that, in his will, he left his second best bed to his wife.

We don't know what became of the better one.

Always a joker, that Will.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 05:50 PM

It was where he kept his stash, Fiolar.

Rick

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 06:06 PM

Peter, I thought Shakespeare spent his last years in London pursuing "The Dark Lady". At least that's the way it was depicted in Anthony Burgess' Nothing Like the Sun.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 06:45 PM

The Dark Lady is from the Sonnets, far from the last of Shakespeare's works.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:32 PM

Don't know 'bout England, but the Northwest coast of America is frequented by the mugwort plant, mainly along the coastlines. It developed a pseudonym in the 1700's and was known as "sailor's tobacco". It is a close relative of the absynthe herb, wormwood. Nowadays, mugwort is often used in what are called "dream pillows", which stimulate one's dreams. Smoking it produces a gentle calm and a very mild buzz.

It has been said, that the original tobacco, so coveted by folks everywhere, was a mild hallucinagen, and that the cultivar we now smoke, is quite dulling by comparison.

I find it unrealistic to assume that Shakespeare wrote better under stoned circumstances. At least, it sure doesn't work for me. However, to intuitively put together a rough outline..., to laugh at the divine comedy... well,... what do you think?

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 04:32 AM

The best pillows for encouraging sleep were said to be hop pillows. Interestingly, the active ingredients in hop flowers - the sticky, bitter humulins and lupilins - are quite similar to cannabinoids.
But if the bard had spent much of his time stoned, surely we wouldn't have the plays - all we'd have would be reports of some laid-back wastrel telling his contemporaries: "Like, one day I'm going to knock your socks off with these plays. Meanwhile, whose turn is it to get the chocolate..?"

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Fiolar
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 08:21 AM

There has been a rumour recently that the study of Shakespeare may be removed from the school curriculum by the English Department of Education. The news that he allegedly took dope may very well be the first steps to implement this. :-)

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST,Gern, who lost his cookie
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:15 AM

If Marlow wrote as Shakespeare, he wrote much better than under his own name. As to accusations of substance abuse, we need only ask the Bard: "a little pot, and soon hot." [WS, The Taming of the Shrew.] Perhaps this explains his occasional wordiness.

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:50 PM

Oh my, Fiolar, maybe we will soon be removing Lincoln and Washington from our Coinage and Currency too...

Subject: RE: Shakespeare a doper ?
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:03 PM

Well, gee, everybody KNOWS George Washington was a doper. He grew the stuff and smoked it for arthritis, although in reality, it probably made the condition worse after the analgesic effects wore off.