HTML Stuff II

Subject: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM

This is intended as a continuation of HTML Stuff.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM

Here is a great HTML tool. I wasn't able to find any reference to it in the forum so I think this is the first post describing it. The tool is called The HTML Reference Library. It's a help application that is the most useful HTML reference I've yet seen. It's very easy to find the information you're looking for and it even indicates which browsers are most likely to support the newer features.

The downside is that the tool requires that you use Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.01 or greater and that you have installed the HtmlHelp 1.1 ActiveX controls (downloadable from Microsoft). Still this is such a wonderful reference, you'll wonder how you got along without it, unless of course you never need to code any HTML.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 04:34 PM

I originally posted this tune fragment in a thread called Our Friend the movable B7 chord but evidently that thread had already died. I figured some people might like to use HTML to graphically represent a complicated technique in tablature so I decided to post it over here as an HTML example.

The HTML for this simple fragment looks like this:

  <h4>Bye Bye Blues</h4>
  <pre>
  <b>                    C                                   Ab              </b><br>
  E<s>                |  0              |                 |                 |</s><br>
  B<s>                |                 |                 |                 |</s><br>
  G<s>                |                 |  0              |  1              |</s><br>
  D<s>                |      2       2  |      2       2  |      1       1  |</s><br>
  A<s>         0   2  |  3              |  3              |  3              |</s><br>
  E<s>     3          |          3      |          3      |          4      |</s><br>
  </pre>
  
  <p>
  <pre>
  <b>                    C                                   A               </b><br>
   <s>                |  0              |                 |                 |</s><br>
   <s>                |                 |                 |                 |</s><br>
   <s>                |                 |  0              |  2              |</s><br>
   <s>     1       1  |      2       2  |      2       2  |      2       2  |</s><br>
   <s> 3              |  3              |  3              |  0              |</s><br>
   <s>         4      |          3      |          3      |          0      |</s><br>
  </pre>
  

You'll need to copy the example above and paste it into your prefered text editor, make it display your example technique, then copy it and paste it into a tread posting. You'll want to save it on your own computer as an HTML file so you can make sure it displays the way you want it to. When you display it, it will seem to be double spaced. Don't worry, it will look right when you post it back here at Mudcat. The example above looks like this:

Bye Bye Blues

                      C                                   Ab              
  E                |  0              |                 |                 |
  B                |                 |                 |                 |
  G                |                 |  0              |  1              |
  D                |      2       2  |      2       2  |      1       1  |
  A         0   2  |  3              |  3              |  3              |
  E     3          |          3      |          3      |          4      |
  

                      C                                   A               
                   |  0              |                 |                 |
                   |                 |                 |                 |
                   |                 |  0              |  2              |
        1       1  |      2       2  |      2       2  |      2       2  |
    3              |  3              |  3              |  0              |
            4      |          3      |          3      |          0      |
  

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mad Tom
Date: 23 May 01 - 12:16 AM

The quick brown fox
jumped over
the lazy dogs.

That should work.

• Using Netscape, select File/New/Blank Page, which starts up a blank page in Netscape Composer
• Type or paste in the text, and apply any formatting from the Composer tool palettes.
• Select View/Page Source.
• Drag and Copy everything between (but not including) the <body> and </body> tags.
• Paste into the mudcat forum thread message/reply box.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mad Tom
Date: 23 May 01 - 01:07 AM

Well, it did, sorta.

The source had extra returns between the bulleted list items that do not show up in the normal editor view. I could have edited them out after pasting, but I wanted to see what would happen with minimal tweaking.

Still, it's a perfectly fine way to use the WYSIWYG editor of an application that you're already running.

I recall doing an experiment ( with Netscape and MS Internet Explorer) some time ago and discovering that the PRE tags do not guarantee that it's displayed in a monospace font, only that the line breaks occur where you put them in the source. Maybe this is different with newer versions of browsers - I haven't repeated the experiment recently. The TT ("teletype") tags do force it to use the monospaced font, but the line breaks are flexible, wrapping the same way as in normal text.

--------
Nitpick: Earlier, Joe Offer said "on a Mac, the CTRL key is the one with the symbol that looks kind of like a square daisy". This is not true. On a Mac the CTRL key is the one with "control" printed on it. The one with the "daisy" (or "splat", "propellor", etc) is the "command" key (abbreviated "cmd"), formerly known as the "apple" key. What is true, is that many of the functions of the Mac command key are provided by the Windoze CTRL key, such as cmd-C, cmd-V, etc. It was the Winborg that strayed from the true path.

- Mad Tom O'Bedlam
(The member formerly known as the Guest John Rose)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 May 01 - 12:58 AM

Burp

Spaw

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: RichM
Date: 25 May 01 - 01:04 AM

Nah...I don't believe that.

A vintage Spaw burp looks like this:

Bu--u-u-u-u-rp!

Subject: Active Link (blicky) Tip
From: Mark Clark
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 06:46 PM

I'm always glad to see people adding links to their posts that take the reader to other Mudcat threads for reference. They go a long way toward improving the overall usability of the information here. Still, there is one small change in these links I'd like to see people start making.

When you copy a universal resource locator (URL) to paste into a link, you will have a string similar to the following:

  http://loki.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?ThreadID=32634  

The problem with this form of URL is that it refers to a specific host computer within the Mudcat domain. This can be problematical because not all the Mudcat host computers are up all the time. If

loki

, for example, is down when the link is clicked by a reader, an error will be returned and the target page will not be displayed.

The solution is to delete that portion of the URL that designates a particular host computer. In the example below, I've set the portion to be deleted in bold type.

  http://loki.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?ThreadID=32634  

The resulting link in your post will look something like the example below:

  <a target="_new" href="http:/thread.cfm?ThreadID=32634">your underlined blue text</a>  

Notice that there is only a single slash character following the colon. This convention has the effect of telling the Web server to look for the requested page on the current host, regardless of what it is called. If we build our active links this way, they'll work no matter which hosts happen to active at the time we are using Mudcat. This may also save Max a lot of work someday down the road if he finds he needs to change all the host names.

I hope this explanation is clear. Note that this tip only applies to links that refer to Mudcat pages. Any links pointing to other sites will need the host information in order to be correctly resolved.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 07:26 PM

Mark, I do the links to other Mudcat pages like this:

<a href=thread.cfm?ThreadID=32634>your text goes here</a>

I'm not sure what the "target" does. These are probably just two different ways of doing the same thing.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 07:30 PM

Mark, does your way of doing it force a new browser window to open? Let me try (without the 'http:/'):

Here's the FAQ

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Burke
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 07:33 PM

I got the way Jeri does it from one of the links off of the FAQ or the PermThread index. Much better links when we have a day like today when only Ragtime seems to be working.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 09:53 AM

The string target="_new" is not required. I use it because I think it's polite to provide a new window for the target page so the user doesn't have to arrow back to the page they came from. It is most appreciated by users who keep many windows open at the same time, none of which completely fills the screen. Users who only run one program at once and fill their screen with it's window may not realize a new window has been created.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 10:32 AM

Mark, I have MSIE set on full screen, and the pop-up window works just fine.

I knew there was a way to open a second window, I just didn't know what it was, so I've learned something.

Yes, this can be quite useful. There are many times I've gone to a link and wished to refer to the message that sent me there. Normally, I have to use the 'back' button, but not with your method.

I should have said this earlier - COOL TIPS!
I wasn't grumpy, even though it might have sounded like it. I apologise for being so terse. It was flipping HOT here yesterday and I didn't feel like sitting here long enough to be polite. I should have taken the time!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 10:41 AM

Jeri, I didn't see anything that sounded terse.

As a matter of good practice, one really should get in the habit of surrounding a URL with the double quote character. Some URLs won't work correctly unless the double quotes are there. Also one should really keep the single forward slash between the host domain name and the page reference. The single slash instructs the server to begin at the root of the applicable directry tree. Without the forward slash, the server will perform a search relative to its current directory. If that doesn't happen to be the root, the reference may not be found.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM

OK Mark - I just felt guilty about jumping on one point and completely ignoring the fact you were providing some interesting and useful information.

I just looked it up in my "HTML for Dummies" book. (This is an older one and I don't know if the HTML standards have changed, but it gives the link to another document in the same directory as <"file.html">file</a>
A file in a subdirectory would be <"subdirectory/file.html">file</a>

I believe the slash is automatically read at the end of the directory you're adding onto, if that makes sense.

I try to use the double quotation marks because I've been told it's the standard. I have yet to find a link that doesn't work because someone's left them out, but I guess it could happen. I wonder if certain characters might mess things up if used in a link without the quotes.

Jeri, picking nits.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: MudGuard
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 03:27 PM

Mark, target="_new" is illegal.

target names are either one of the four special ones (_blank for a new browser, _self for the same window, _top to remove all framesets, _parent to remove one frameset)

or

it must begin with a letter. If such a normal name is used, the browser looks whether a window with that name does already exist. If so, that window is used, otherwise a new one is opened.

_new is not a special name and does not begin with a letter, so it is illegal. Use _blank instead.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: MudGuard
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 03:30 PM

Forgot the Link: Frame target names in HTML

MudGuard

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:23 PM

MudGuard, You are quite right, _blank is the correct reserved word to use as the window-name parameter. I'm getting sloppy. A conforming browser is supposed to simply ignore the erroneous parameter but IE 5.5 at least ignores the word "new" but honors the leading underscore and treats it as _blank.

Jeri, Your book is correct as far as it goes. The point I was trying to make is that the page one is hoping to find may not be in the current directory or one of its subdirectories. It may be in another branch of the directory tree and if the leading slash character is not coded, the server has no way to know that the requested page is really in another path. Sometimes relative addressing is appropriate and sometimes you need a fully qualified directory path. If you aren't sure which one you need, it's best to stick with the path that you copied from the supplied URL.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:30 PM

Mark, let us know if the police show up to arrest you because you used an illegal target name. We'll send you some small "files" baked into a "cookie." ;-)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:52 PM

LOL!

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Burke
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:43 PM

Just, IMHO, I tend to keep too many windows open & don't like it when they generate themselves automatically the way this target command does. I prefer to decide when I want a new window opened. If I want to, I'll right click & tell it to open in a new window. If not, I'll just click.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: GUEST,Tester
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 10:01 PM

The name "_new" is NOT illegal (as stated above); it is simply not a reserved name. If you open a new window, you can name it so that if another link tries to open a window of the same name the contents of that window will be replaced. This has its uses. One can use target="foobar" and if no window named "foobar" exists, one will be created.

But it is correct that "_blank" should be used to ensure that a new window is opened every time the targeted link is clicked.

Ciao, Tester

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: MudGuard
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:35 AM

Tester, you are wrong.

Cited from standard (where my link points to):

Except for the reserved names listed below, frame target names (%FrameTarget; in the DTD) must begin with an alphabetic character (a-zA-Z).

As _ is not an alphabetic character, it is illegal.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 02 - 11:07 AM

This is a test posting which can be deleted after 23rd May 2002

Internal Link
Exnternal Link
bold
italicbr> big
small H₂O
a² + b² = c²
WRONG
blink

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 02 - 11:20 AM

This is a test posting which can be deleted after 23rd May 2002

2nd attempt at the internal link
2nd Internal Link

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:15 AM

test which can be deleted after 11th October 2005 ...

this should be bold

this should be italics

this should emphasise

this should be strong

this should be big

this should be indented

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:20 AM

another test that can be deleted after 11th october, 2005 ...

testing red headings maybe

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM

yet another test that can be deleted after 11th October, 2005 ...

take 2 on colour :

blue
cyan
green
orange
red

and on size :

1

2

3

4

5

phew!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:44 AM

HELP!
what am I doing wrong with the colours???

I gotta get this right, then I can tackle ... blickies!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 01:28 PM

yet another test that can be deleted after 11th October, 2005 ...

take 2 on color :

blue
cyan
green
orange
red
phew!

In the ISO standard, it's spelled "color."

John

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:30 PM

Aahhhhhhh!!!!!    :~))))))))))

- thank gawd it was that easy!!!

Cheers!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:40 PM

While YOU'RE TRY

http://www.webdisplays.com/guide-web-design-tips-tutorial-help/rgb1.htm

http://www.webdisplays.com

Sincerely,
G

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:46 AM

sorry - one more test ...

"A Patch of Blue" FILM

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:48 AM

Damn! Did I spell color "wrong" AGAIN?!
An' I also tried to increase the size at the same time, to no avail ...

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:54 PM

From your last:

sorry - one more test ...<br> <br> <I color=blue size=4>"A Patch of Blue"</I /font> <B>FILM</B> <P>

You're missing the "<font" at the beginning. You may have accidentally "selected" the start of the font tag, so it got overwritten when you tried to nest the <i> (italic) tag start? The closing tags </I /font> each need to be complete and separate - </i></font>.

<font color=blue size=4><i>"A Patch of Blue</i></font> <B>FILM</B>

"A Patch of Blue FILM

1. I assume you're aware that you can right click on the posted page and select "view source" to open what you actually posted in notepad. Since it opens the entire page, you'll probably have to search (Edit | Find or Ctl-F) for something in your post to find the individual post. Changing what's in notepad won't do anything much for you, since you can't save it back to the 'cat, although you can copy from there to paste into a new post.

2. The <br> tags are not necessary now at mudcat, since it recognizes paragraph breaks in posts. If you're practicing here to learn how to use HTML elsewhere, there's no real objection to including them.

3. You can save a lot of "broken posts" by clicking the preview box when you experiment. You'll see exactly what would have posted, but save yourself the notoriety of actually displaying your mistakes for everyone to see, since the preview won't actually be saved by the 'cat.

4. This thread started off as a very old one in the days before the 'cat started using "HTML Practice" threads, which are occasionally edited to remove old stuff. If you move your "practice" to one of the "HTML Practice" threads, your mistakes may eventually go away. You may believe me that a year from now your "learning efforts" can be quite an embarrassment when the whole world looks at them, so moving to a practice thread is highly recommended.

Try BS: Testing (HTML Practice)

John

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:14 PM

I assume you're aware that you can right click on the posted page and select "view source" to open what you actually posted in notepad. Since it opens the entire page, you'll probably have to search (Edit | Find or Ctl-F) for something in your post to find the individual post. Changing what's in notepad won't do anything much for you, since you can't save it back to the 'cat, although you can copy from there to paste into a new post.

If you use Mozilla Firefox as your browser, you can highlight some portion of a Web page then right click and choose View Selection Source from the context menu. This will keep you from having to search through a long HTML file.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 01:43 AM

Thanks John, for your advice!
No, I did not want to practice to the whole of Mudcat, but somehow, the actual "HTML Practice" thread escaped me :~(

Thanks for the tips!

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:50 AM

Mr Happy

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:52 AM

That last post post was in invisible ink!

But it can be seen by highlighting the blank space!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:06 AM

No matter what you're testing, you need to keep enough black ink on hand, else your post will be terribly vague by the end.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:08 AM

Bill D, that's magic!

How please?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:12 AM

I cheat....I use a little program which takes my entry and automates the process. Font Colorizer.

You can do many tricks with it.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:19 AM

(in that one, I just selected progressively lighter shades of gray from the 'other' section of the color chart)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:20 AM

obviously, one could hand-code something like that, but being sure you included all the < s and >s might be too much work.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:26 AM

Thanks Bill!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:28 AM

Just a reminder, since somebody asked-
The FAQ says HTML and special characters should not be used in thread titles or user names because they wreak havoc with our search engines. Please don't use them there.
Thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:53 AM

Ok Joe!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:23 PM

As regards "internal links" I have repeatedly found them to break. It depends, I suppose, on how different browsers detect the base URL. But whatever the cause, trying to save a few characters in a link by leaving out the "http://www.mudcat.org/" part, just because you are linking to a page within the domain, is not a reliable strategy. I have found it to cause 404s routinely. I recommend putting the whole path in place for each link you make.

A

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:55 PM

I don't find that at problem, but a lot of old full links are broken because people used the server name rather than "www". So all those links to Shorty or Loki or whomever don't work now, whereas an internal link from 2001 will still work

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff II
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:45 PM

New question: How did Rapaire do this in his post???

I know how to create the "normal" marquee in his first line. But how did he make the marquee move in the other direction in the second line, and bounce back and forth across the window in the third line?