The Folk Image

Subject: The Folk Image
From: Ruthie A
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:11 PM

Emily-O (aka Alicia Teacup) posted in another thread how much she hates Britey Spears. It started me off on a very long rant which originated at the local folk club last night. It was quite a lot off-topic, so I've created another thread about it. The Folk Image. I've been the laughing stock of my yeargroup at school ever since I announced in an English presentation about my hobbies that I love folk music. In the eyes of my friends, the second people qualify to be classified under the heading of 'Folkie' (which I personally consider to be quite an honour), they have their sense of humour removed with a hook through their nose, suddenly and mysteriously become devoid of all personality and are doomed to sing outdated songs with nonsensical choruses to the world in general for all eternity. Folk music, as we all know, has a thriving culture associated with it. Folkies are united by a common passion for music, but many other things are relevant to this strange cult. One of the greatest things, I reckon, is the way true musicianship is valued above age, sex, clothes brand, physical appearance and the general 'cool' factor. I'm fairly tolerant of most music forms (I've been taught that it's stupid to close yourself off from any particular genre of music at the grand old age of 13), but I think that folk music is one of the few genres remaining that is still completely equal-opportunities and open to all. And we should make an effort to make sure it stays this way. Hands up all those in agreement.

Ruthie

(sorry for ranting, i needed to get it out of my system!)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:17 PM

Good post Ruthie.

My daughter Hannah is 13 and labels a lot (but not all) of my "folk" collection (whatever that may be!) as "cool" although she is as eclectic as anyone else her age in terms of music.

You're certainly right that it is "equal opportunity" and "open to all" and that's what makes it great!

All the very best,

mcmoo (49 today and still "cool" according to my daughter!)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:22 PM

You are right on, Ruthie!
My daughter Maggie is twelve and loves folk music, in spite of the sneers of her classmates (her real friends love folk music too!). You are wise if you have learned to be true to yourself at this age. And you have a great name- my middle name is Ruth!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: RichM
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:22 PM

I've played many kinds of music, but I always come back to my first love: Folk. Folkies are very accepting of differences-in music and otherwise- and they don't tell ya that "---- ----- didn't play it that way"!

Keep on enjoying the music.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:26 PM

You aren't alone, Ruthie, my daughters, 20 and 17 respectively, consider folk music to be another of the forms of music they enjoy. Some they like, some they don't and it has sparked many a fun and energetic debate in our family.

Fortunately my two kids are so cool in their own right that the other kids in school don't chide them for it. Or maybe it's because my kids get to meet their musical heroes and the other kids will never get to meet Britney.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: LR Mole
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:59 PM

Ruthie: I think you're swell, and can't imagine why people think folkies have no senses of humor,since most of the people I've played with are cripplingly funny.Though not in a Adam Sandler/Jim Carrey way.I must admit,though, that I don't like the deedle-deedle-deedle,whack-glumple-cheesy-puff refrains a whole lot either.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:03 PM

I don't ascribe to any set image...I'm kind of a combination of everything. Rock, Country, Folk...either way, someone's looking down on what I like. Personally, my heroes are Noel Gallagher, Bernard Butler, Scott Stapp, and Jason Wade.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:18 PM

My daughter, who is 13, gets laughed at by her schoolmates for liking folk. She shrugs it off.

Alex

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:21 PM

Best way to handle it eh MT... not eveybody is gonna all like the same stuff...

There's noting more subjective than taste...

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Ruthie A
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:44 PM

Yay! Keep going, I'm enjoying this rant.

Animaterra, my middle name's Marie. Maybe we should start a Ruth clan? (Nobody calls me Ruth any more, but hey.) We can take over the world! (But not on Thursdays. I'm busy on Thursdays.)

Ruthie

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:45 PM

Stay true to yourself. You will never regret it (for long; there are always moments when it seems pointless). I like folk music because it is real. It has real value, rather than momentary attraction. It is filled with real ideas and that's why it will never just fade away.

Too many people get sucked in by the "flavor of the month", whether it's clothing, entertainment, music, art, etc. One day it's beany babies, the next it's a video game system, or Pokemon, or InSync, or whatever. Later on, when the fad is past or when (hopefully) they have outgrown it, they end up wondering "what was I thinking?". Hang on to those things (and people) that have real value and you won't have to ask that question.

Good luck in life. I envy you.

Bart

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:46 PM

Ruthie:

Ever since radio and records were invented in the 1920s, the music industry has been trying to sell us music. One of the ways they market it, like almost everything else, is to make last year's product obsolete. So, we need a new crop of "stars" every year (or more often) and a new genre of music every few years.

Folk music was marketed to us in the late fifties and early sixties and very successfully. Now it's considered obsolete. This is true of big band music, rock and roll, etc. They were all marketed to us at differnt times and then they went away.

The trouble with folk music is it won't go away because it's the only form of music that regular folks can make by themselves. We don't need the music industry and they don't need us.

So, among the thirteen-year-old population, anything that's not on the cutting edge (that is, being marketed at this moment) is not cool. This is true among most other age populations, too. That's why you see so many SUVs on the road. So, don't worry about being cool. It's not important now and it won't be important to you later in life unless you let it be.

By the way, we earn a living playing folk music in schools and very often we hear kids say that folk music is not cool and they don't like it. After they've heard it, their opinion usually changes. So, we think that most of what you're hearing is due to ignorance of what folk music is.

Keep on ranting!

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 May 01 - 01:58 PM

Bartholomew:

Looks like we both had the same idea at the same time.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:18 PM

Other than a few spasms here and there, such as when the music industry in the late Fifties and early Sixties decided that they couldn't beat 'em so they'd better join 'em ("the people are all running thatway, so I must run and get ahead of them, for I am their leader!"), the currently "cool" music (of whatever era) is intended to by played and sung at you -- and bought by you -- not sung by you. Then, shortly, it's declared no longer cool, so you'll toss out your recently purchased CDs and spend your hard-earned on the next load of (insert naughty word here).

There are folk songs and ballads from centuries ago that are still being sung, because they're good songs and people love them. Now that's cool!

Who's going to remember Britney Spears' latest "hit" a century from now? Next year? Next week?

Hang in there, Ruthie!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:24 PM

Wasn't that the overall message of Jethro Tulls album "Too Old TO Rock & Roll: Too Young To Die...

Fads come and fads go... if you just stick with what it is you like to do, you'll go in and out of style more than a few times...

I will say this though... Coming here and whining and sucking about the fadsters, and calling them shallow and heartless is just as bad as them hurling abuse at us... chill... to each their own...

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:38 PM

Tell 'em Clinton! I play acoustic guitar, classical guitar, harmonica, recorder, and Highland Pipe chanter. And I play rock & roll on them. I make music BY MYSELF and I AM a regular person. And it's sure as hell not folk.

Turlough O'Carolan was listening to the popular music of HIS time, Baroque Italian music, comissioned by rich nobility and royalty. His music reflects that. He played his own combination of what he knew and what influenced him, on his harp. I don't see anyone forgetting O'Carolan's music over something else from the 17th century...

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:39 PM

Matt, you, a regular person? It is to laugh!

:-P

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: fat B****rd
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:52 PM

Good on you, Ruthie, where I live a regular comprehensive school pupil who was into Folk music would probably be regarded as a leper. To today's adidad clad teenager to be INDIVIDUAL is to be an outcast.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:57 PM

To todays teenager?

Like teens have EVER been different?!?!?!?!?!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:59 PM

Not all teens come out of the same cookie-cutter.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:04 PM

What I mean is, the teen situation has always been the same, regardless of what generation in the 20th century you were born into... The struggle to find your own identity, but yet fit in with your peers is a tough one...

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:06 PM

Yer right there, Clinton.

Alex

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:15 PM

"Rock and Roll is the folk music of the technological age" Jimmy Page.... I like it (48) my wife likes it (37) my son (14) my daughter (11) and we love folk too! Its all music... Rock on MattR. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: fat B****rd
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:21 PM

thankyou. All pretty much right. When I was a "teen" the diversity of music (which is what what this was all about)enjoyed by my schoolmates ranged from Little Richard to Jelly Roll Morton to Beethoven to the then pop people such as Helen Shapiro etc. I think the lack individuality created by MOST comprehensive school/media brainwashed environments is sad. Once again, Good luck Ruthie and everybody xxxxxxxx fB

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: fat B****rd
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:22 PM

thankyou. All pretty much right. When I was a "teen" the diversity of music (which is what what this was all about)enjoyed by my schoolmates ranged from Little Richard to Jelly Roll Morton to Beethoven to the then pop people such as Helen Shapiro etc. I think the lack individuality created by MOST comprehensive school/media brainwashed environments is sad. Once again, Good luck Ruthie and everybody xxxxxxxx fB

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Wavestar
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:31 PM

That's pretty much the reaction I always received, and still do, sometimes... but I've got friends who like it too, and my other ones don't give me a hard time, much. I am trying to break my boyfriend of his stereotypical folk image... it annoys me!

Stick with it, eventually people give up trying to make you change and accept you for what you are. But if you have broader tastes than just one thing, stay eclectic! Don't narrow your range!

-J

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Ruthie A
Date: 07 May 01 - 03:54 PM

Hey, I think you're getting me a bit wrong here Clinton. I'm not moaning about people who follow fads - if that's what they want to do then I don't envy them. I'm just saying how great it is that folk music focuses on the music (which generally only ever gets better) rather than appearance, on which time will pay its toll to.

Ruthie

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:14 PM

I knew you'd be with me, Dave!! Long time no see!

Zeppelin was notorious for screaming at fans begging for metal, "Shut up and listen to THIS!" whilst John Paul Jones would pull out his 6-string/12-string/mandolin all-in-one guitar and they rip out a beautiful acoustic set.

On the pianos at the music store at the mall, there are little signs that say "Please do not play Mary Had A Little Lamb, Chopsticks, Fur Elise, or Stairway To Heaven." Am I seeing something that others are not? You CAN'T know what will be still remembered 100 years from now unless you are a time traveller. Bach's music was forgotten until Mendelsohn revived it almost 100 years later. Vivaldi was almost unknown for anything else besides "The 4 Seasons" until the movie Kramer vs. Kramer re-introduced his Mandolin Concerto, which before that, was lost in obscurity. Now we have such albums as "Vivaldi's Greatest Hits" featurning the Mandolin Concerto. Written 300 years ago, and only been a "greatest hit" since the mid-70's. After Scott Joplin died in 1912, his music was virtually lost, except as some sort of bawdy strip-tunes. It was that pianist/music historian's album of Joplin's work, and subsequently it's use in the movie The Sting that brought it back to the forefront. NEVER turn your back on anything. You'll never know what the future generation will bring back to light. Heck, they may find Scottish band's acoustic cover of Britney's "Hit Me Baby One More Time" and think it's the original, and love it, and no one will have to remember BrICKney.

--Matt

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:23 PM

once, our art teacher told us we could bring in cds to listen to during class (since it was ART, after all) and i brought in a bunch of jazz stuff...that lasted about two minutes, until the complaints got so loud, the teacher stopped it and gave me back my cds. *sigh*...and it was my birthday too.

we listened to some pop crap instead. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!

folk: a four letter word that begins with F, ends with K, and if you say it on the radio, you're screwed.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Justa Picker
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:26 PM

...and Jimmy Page did actually lift some of Joan Baez's fingerpicking riffs for Zep's recording of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" (which she recorded years before Zep) Zep's first album is an absolute classic and a must for any serious collector of hard rock. (I was also a very big Humble Pie fan as well...but shhsh...don't tell anyone! :-)
(Sorry for the thread creep.)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: hesperis
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:28 PM

Sometimes this can work: sneer at them for NOT liking folk music, declare that it's "cool" or whatever the most "awesome", "groovy", "wicked", "far out", "wacky", "cool" term you can use is, and then keep going on about how "it is SO THE BEST, and you CAN'T BELIEVE that they are SOOOOOO not "with it" to not like it!!!!!!!!!!"

Pretend that you alone know what is cool and if they don't agree with you, then they are uncool. Then let them hear some of te stuff, explain about it. Tell about meeting one of your heroes or something... let them know, that it's cool BECAUSE it's not on MTV, and people who like it, do so because it's good, not because billions have been spent on advertising.

You have to have a certain force of personality to carry it off, though, or you will get shunned.

But if you are shunned, then they are probably not true friends to you anyway.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:33 PM

In my Ceramics class last summer, since it was a 4 hour class filled with pretty mundane wedging and throwing work, we'd bring in CD's to listen to. I learned a lot of music from that class. Everything from KrossKulture (acid jazz), Built To Spill, Moby, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band, Widespread Panic, Radiohead, Barflies Soundtrack, Thin Lizzy, etc. I brought in some of my stuff as well. The 7 Nations CD Old Ground didn't make it past track three before they changed it, but The Horslips' The Tain and The Book of Invasion went over HUGE. I ever had an attentive audience as I told them bits of the Cuchullain tale. Us teens & college students aren't all that evil. We have a term in our culture you may be familiar with. "It's all good."

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:45 PM

No misinterpretation Ruthie... just thread drift was all...

;-)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Philibuster
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:50 PM

The most common reaction I get at school when I mention Folk, "Oh, you mean Country?" Phil Ochs, Pete Seeger, Eric Anderson, Woody Guthrie, or even Bob Dylan or Paul Simon are unheard of by most of my classmates (and it's stretching to call many of them folk). Don McLean has a moderate amount of fame, but most people still classify him as "country". So, I get to explain exactly what folk is. I can't say traditional music, because that brings to mind Turkey in the Straw, or Home on the Range. If I refer to topical music... well, no one knows what topical music is anyway.

Fat B***rd did say to be individual is to be outcast. He's very right. I wear my hair long, and have had people I don't know tell me to "cut your fuckin hair". I've been called a loser, simply because I don't conform to present fashion and think and work on different levels than most people my age. I can't even talk to most of the other musicians, since most are in band (just for the credit), the "guitar gods" can't read music, play music I can't stand, play 900+ dollar guitars (that they can't even really play), and would be lost were it not for tab.

I've given up on my "peers", and just decided to ride it out until college. So, to quote Max, fuck it.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:52 PM

last friday i discovered someone in my school who not only knew who aretha franklin was, but actually thought she was cool. one small victory...now i just have to force the rest of my friends to listen to good music :0)

actually, most of my friends aren't all that bad...we're all into weird music that most of the rest of us doesn't know a thing about...most of us met each other when we were doing musicals...thus, music was not a concern...that sounds weird, but you know what i mean, right?

speaking of musicals, i was supposed to be at a rehearsal for one about 51 minutes ago...urg...sometimes i HATE living in the middle of nowhere. once you come home for the day, you'rr HOME. there is next to know way you can get anywhere from home.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Mike Byers
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:02 PM

I'm not exactly sure what "folk music" is, although I think I've been playing at least some of it for the last forty-five years or so. Claiming to be a "folk musician" is sort of like claiming to be a "science fiction" writer (and I do a little of that, too): I figure the best bet is to do the best you can and do whatever you can to avoid genre labels. If people like it, nobody will care what it's called. And since one of the members of the group I play with has 20 years of classical piano training and 30 years as a piano teacher behind her, we do a fast, finger-picked guitar and hammered dulcimer version of "Fur Elise" (words available upon request) that I call "Fer Elise" except when we start it with the first eight measures of Beethoven's 5th and call it "A Fifth fer Elsie". It cracks up the piano teachers and students in the audience, and probably counts as some sort of "folk music", I suppose. Just do your best and have fun!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Ma Fazoo
Date: 08 May 01 - 03:37 AM

One of my favorite songwriter/singers has a bumper sticker that reads, "you can't be a folksinger if you don't have a second job".
Myself, I'm pooooor! Can You belive there are hardly any paying gigs in Newport RI? At our Thursday night open mikes, we get the most wellknown and well respected musicians all singing for the simple love of it.
The folk image to me, is people who will share their songs, and allow others into the game. All for free and all for fun. Now I ain't no ethnomusicologist or nothing, I'm just a 9th grade dropout with a GED and I say we should all just quit analyzing and DO IT!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 01 - 08:01 AM

Stick with it Ruthie - dare to be yourself and, as long as it doesn't hurt you, put up with the earache from the fasion slaves. Coz that's all it is.

Just remember the story of the broken watch and the one that goes slow. The slow one is rarely right. The broken one is right twice a day. The fasion concious will eventualy go slow and never catch up again. I like to stand still nowadays and every now and again, when the wheel turns once more, I am bang up to date;-)

BTW I have twin daughters, now 16. When they were 13/14 they got into goth style rock which got them into all sorts of scrapes and arguments with their school peers. They lived through it pretty much in tact. If they can get away with black lipstick and Grunge I'm sure wooley jumpers and Eliza Carthy will be a piece of cake *BG*

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Ruthie A
Date: 08 May 01 - 02:29 PM

Hehehe...you're right there, Dave. I like wooly jumpers and Eliza Carthy. I'm sure there are worse sins - although those who have seen me stomping around in random tie-dye and flowery boots may disagree!

I've has a fairly similar experience, Matt_R. Last year in art I took in a Kate Rusby CD (goddess that she is). I victoriously though I had a classful of converts (including the teacher!) until I let slip that it was folk music. Twenty-nine instant enemies. Oops!

Ruthie

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 May 01 - 02:42 PM

LOL! I have seen that reaction.

Here in The States Dolly Parton has released an album of what they are calling "roots" music. Dolly is a Country/Western artist and the idea of her doing folk music is anathema. But that is what it is. And she admits it. This is the music she grew up with back in the hills of Tennessee or wherever she grew up.

But you will never hear the DJ's or the record companies calling it "FOLK" music. They see that label as a death sentence.

Occasionally a TV show or movie will portray a group of people singing folk music. Inevitably it is sevral people sitting in a circle, only one with a guitar and they'll be singing either Kumbaya or Michael Row the Boat.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 May 01 - 03:14 PM

Ah hell Naes, them DJ's just can't take a joke......and I guess we aren't supposed to have a sense of humor anyway.

Spaw (Humorless and Depressing)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 May 01 - 06:08 PM

Both Fat B*st*rd and Philibuster said that to be an individual is to be an outcast. I've been reading a bit about native American tribal customs lately, so maybe I'm taking the use of this world a little more seriously than I should.

To be cast out of your tribe - exiled, as it were - used to be the worst thing that could happen to a person. It meant to be left on your own to face the cruel and uncaring world. In some cases, exile was equivalent to a death sentence. It was only done when the individual broke a serious tribal taboo, like killing another member.

I have always been a little "off center" when it came to conforming with a group. I have been kidded, I have been called names by a few goofs, but I have always been able to find kindred spirits. I never felt "outcast" or alone. I never felt compelled to "conform or die".

I would hate to think that that this was true today for these kids. I know it must seem that way at times. There were times when it felt that way for me.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 May 01 - 06:25 PM

Man, my computer is freaking out. I was going to delete the last post and it got submitted instead.

For society to stay strong, it needs to constantly replenish it's supply of individuals. What if Woody Guthrie had decided he'd rather just be another mill hand? What if Elvis only wanted the security of his job delivering electrical supplies? What if John Lennon got a nice flat with Pricilla and was satisfied designing adverts for the Sunday post?

We are seeing the birth of one big homogenous world-wide culture - dressed in Levis jeans, listening to Brittney Spears, eating MacDonald's fries & drinking Starbucks coffee. More than ever we need people who will stand up and scream "WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU GOT?"

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Matt_R
Date: 08 May 01 - 06:27 PM

GOMEZ. LISTEN TO THEM. CLEANSE YOUR SOUL OF THE ORDINARY. THANK YOU.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: LR Mole
Date: 09 May 01 - 12:15 PM

Well...one of the difficulties is the concept of "the folk image". As one who was in the immediate vicinity, I can tell you that few things are harder than dressing like you don't care how you're dressed. Or looking like you don't, etc. On the other hand, unless you're discouraged or depressed it's practically impossible to play as though you don't care about THAT, if only because many of us began to play to keep ourselves entertained. No one would say loneliness is not real, but on the other hand, there are many more of us than some think.And here we are. Am I making any sense at all?

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Stevangelist
Date: 09 May 01 - 01:01 PM

Hi, I'm new here...

You mean I have to send back my "Folk Singer Starter Kit"?

1. Plaid flannel work shirt

2. Greek fisherman's cap

3. Instruction sheet on proper beard length

4. set of stainless steel fingerpicks

5. harmonica rack

...and I have to stop telling all the stories I have about playing in the rain for 4 people and a dog at an environmental rally in New Jersey?

Seriously, I've had to answer some pretty strange questions and I've been held up to some pretty weird standards as to what a "folkie" is...

Anyhow, just a bit of levity. I have friends who are former part-time 'Cat visitors, and I have heard nothing but good about you all. It's good to be here. BTW, any good picking to be had in the Louisville/Lexington KY area, please let me know.

May the Road Rise To Meet You,

Stevangelist

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Dunc
Date: 09 May 01 - 04:26 PM

I take a huge amount of (good humoured) abuse from my work mates regarding my love of folk music. 'Folk' has become the new 'F***' word and they shriek in horror at its very mention.
They have an image of the people who attend my local folk club (The Internationally Famous Glenfarg Village Folk Club).
We apparently all wear Arran jumpers, bell bottomed jeans, Jesus sandals (over our socks),have beards (that includes the females), sing in a nasal Irish accent with a finger in one ear (there is heather growing out of the other one).
The songs we sing are all set in the far distant past, contain the words 'hi didle dum' and deal with the death of sailors, children or dogs.
Oh - and we sometimes burn the old and infirm in a ritual known only by those who can sing The Wild Rover...
...The bit that scares me is how do they know all that stuff without ever having been to the club !!!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: GUEST,Dorrie
Date: 09 May 01 - 04:54 PM

This can be disgused soooooo many times but i think everyone should b able 2 have their own preferances.Cos i'm a self confessed folkie(or folk babe as my big sis would call me)but i still like other music from Limp bizkit to spice girls so every1 can like what i like or not cos i'm used to getting hassle for it. But in saying that in my years of secondary education loads of people have listen 2 my walkman and asked me 2 record things for them-particulary kate rusby-and them brought more music and come 2 festivals with me.

So i reckon spread the word cos it can only make people see sense teehee.

love dorrie xxx

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 06:03 AM

i'm refreshing this because it's particularly relevant currently here in the uk- i.e. the PEL debacle.

the stereotyping of FOLK, does, i believe,influence the way that the government legistlates over such matters and also, just as importantly, how the media perceives it.

there's no great national outcry against making it illegal for people to gather to make music & sing in pubs & other public places also for this reason.

i could go on & on.

your comments?

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Hawker
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 08:49 AM

At festivals I see a lot of beards (mainly on the men) and tie dye clothing, I see a lot of the new age look too, I am a firm believer in being yourself, I dont need to wear a uniform to conform to a particular social group. But I do think that if you meet up as a group with like minded people, they may have more than their taste in music in common, Be brave, be yourself and be proud of it!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:32 PM

Music has been a passion all my life and I have catholic tastes...Baroque chamber music, classical guitar, the great ballads from the 1930s-40s, 50's west coast jazz and folk music. But it is only folk music that I can actually make for myself, which puts it at the top of the list, if I had to choose just one form (which, TG, I don't). To be able to sing a beautiful song, that tells an intrancing story, and has been around for 100-500 or more years is like being able, in those moments, to relive history. I think that is VERY cool.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: fogie
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 01:04 PM

A mate of mine has tried to reinvent the folk club. He has a regular open stage, amplification, compere etc. once a month. You book your act in prior to the night and can do virtually anything you want, be it folk, poetry, comedy or whatever for initially up to 10mins, but if they think you're up to doing it the next time you can book yourself half-hour slots. There is a preponderance of old folkies like me glad to be in a quiet room with other performers, and given space to expand, relive ,or create an act. This is in a village hall, and people travel for miles to be there. It seems to be thriving. Folk music is a catch all phrase for accoustic music that is relevant harmonious, and instructive sometimes, that others can join in with, and share. I dont really care if it has come from Britain, as long as it means something to me personally, and I know there are good non-traditional songs being written all the time, either in or out of the idiom. All I long to do is perform and enjoy myself; to learn to entertain.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: C-flat
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 01:28 PM

I don't like to pigeon-hole music or people. The best thing about folk-clubs or folk gatherings is that they embrace many styles and are tolerant towards players of all standards. There's still an element of the "Arran-sweater/big-beard" to folk musics' image, but who cares?
For me, the best part of the folk scene is that you don't need to fit in with someone elses idea of what you should look like or sound like.
Most of my performing takes place outside of folk music (blues,rock,etc.)but I've always felt free to turn up at an open session and play whatever I want, wether it's traditional or modern.
A good song is a good song, whatever it's history.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 13 Jul 02 - 04:08 AM

Ruthie---when I was a "teenager", the word "teenager" hadn't been invented! I was a fan of Tito Burns and his bebop band, went crazy in drainpipes and slab-soled shoes to the strains of "Twelfth Street Rag" [still love it---], and one fateful night was coaxed into a folk club. In England. Coincidence, maybe, but I found myself listening to music and song which had been a continuing part of my life since I was able to carry my first tune. Traditional Scottish music, in an English venue. I didn't drop Twelfth Street Rag" or "Blue-ribbon Gal", but from then on I have been regularly found among those folkies, giving vent to my own versions of the many songs and stories which I found I had been collecting down the years without consciously favouring "folk". In those same clubs I found a breadth of interest in music of all genres---something that you don't find in most other congregations. Much of the present day "rock" music is good to listen to.And much of it is is of a quality that, were it not pushed on the public in conjunct with some asinine video gyrations, would be trash-can fodder tout-de-suite. My association with folk clubs has given me an appreciation for music and end entertainment across a broad spectrum; I do not like everything I hear or see, but then many others have their tastes, and I have always respected that. To paraphrase a biblical quote--"in the realms of music there are many mansions---".

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Hrothgar
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 07:26 AM

The hardest bit, still, is explaining the sifference between folk and country... (sigh)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 07:41 AM

Fair play to you for getting up and saying what you believe even if it puts you outside the "cool" group.As a father of two teenage girls I know how much pressure there is to fit in.As many others have said already, be true to yourself

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Jeanie
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:09 AM

Great news, Ruthie ! And you are not alone. Just last night I was talking to two girls in the sixth form (year 12) at my daughter's school, who have formed their own band and are discovering and playing (amongst other styles) folk rock. One of their big problems, they told me, was finding tunes and lyrics. Aha ! I think there will shortly be two new Mudcat members !

Good luck and continue having fun with music,

- jeanie

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:10 PM

Both my 11 and 7 year old sons enjoy listening to and even singing folk music, especially the younger one, who likes to sing along with Martin Carthy in the car!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:05 PM

I drive my 15-yr old twins to school every morning, and I always have a folk CD on in the car. My daughter says whenever Hughie Jones' version of Liverpool Lou is playing, she's got the damned song in her head for the rest of the day.

Subliminal indoctrination rules, OK!

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: English Jon
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:41 PM

My advice, Ms Arkley; Wear whatever you like, sing whatever songs you like, and always remember you're a damn sight cleverer than them other buggers.

Cheers for now, Jon (Loomes)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From:
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 01:51 AM

But isn't it a strange thing, the way we're inclined to get all tribal about our (and others') musical tastes, especially when we're young(hopefully maturity brings tolerance, and maybe an awareness that we're not doomed to one small social circle forever). I've often wondered why there's this deep concern about whether the music we like is cool, that is, passes non-musical tests.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 02:25 AM

Ruthie,

Hang in there and play/listen to whatever YOU like.  Remember, too, that "folk" music is an awfully broad category that can include ethnic music from all over the world, a lot of blues, rockabilly, country, bluegrass, and a lot of popular music from days gone by.

The funny thing to me is that when I'm entertaining in mixed-generation groups, I'll get requests from very young people for "Greensleeves,"  "You Are My Sunshine," and other "oldies" that I would not expect them to like.

Listen to your own drummer and make your own music.

Genie

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: mouldy
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 03:04 AM

My teenage daughter (also a Ruth) took up the violin a year ago, but insisted on only learning folk fiddle. This is just one of several types of music she likes. (She also plays piano). She has never conformed to any "fashionable" trend and, having left school after GCSEs last month, now sports purple streaks in her (relatively) unstyled hair. (I promised her I'd let her do it the minute she finished school). She has never been afraid to be "herself", and the same can be said for her sister, who is now a very confident and outgoing 3rd/4th year pharmacy student, and her brother - both comfortable with all kinds of people.

You are who you are, and no amount of clique-following will make any difference if that isn't you. You'll just end up neurotic!

Andrea (in mum mode)

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 06:16 AM

And I thought that God (Ewan MacColl) made folkies in his own image.

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Malachy
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:11 PM

Hey Ruthie A Get your philistine mates to listen to Travis' slightly folky version of Britneys 'Hit Me Baby One more Time'..and point out that you can actually understand the words now!!!..........I never realised what a good song it was until I heard their version. Mal

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 09:03 AM

Stereotype?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNXJGmcqNI

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: pirandello
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 10:32 AM

The first thing which enters people's minds when the words 'folk music' are uttered is women with hairy armpits, earth shoes, ethnic-knit woollens from some collective in Nicaragua, huge wooden earrings and shapeless harem trousers.
For the men it's bad corduroys, beards (naturally), the de rigeur earring, an alarmingly anal repertoir of beer original gravity and a peculiar aversion to electricity. Sandals optional.
Oddly the music never gets a mention...

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 11:00 AM

Hi Ruthie,

I want to show my support for you in your wisdom. I wish I were that smart at 13.

I was an outcast in my high school for playing and singing folksongs too. I presented a folksong in the little building in the school quad. Actually, to my surprise, I found that my classmates liked it! They had made assumptions about what it was without listening to it.
The only one who objected was the choral instructor who thought it was terrible that the song contained "hell" and "damn". (How times have changed!)

My interest like yours stemmed from hearing it, liking it and rejecting much of the treacle and inane pop music of my day.

The reason that you have expressed so well that folk music is an equal-opportunity expression is that it is available to all who care to appreciate it and to all who wish to participate in it. Can't say that for any other form of music.

To play pop music of today, you have to sound like the recording of it played on the air.
How many people can do that?

For classical and jazz, years of training are required.

Britney Spears is a commodity before she is an artist. This is true with so many pop stars.
Folk music is not a commodity but a valuable insight into national cultures and history.

I think you have something here. We have to be open-minded to really appreciate folk music. We have to be open to the lives of others who may differ from our way of life but in folk music we can be assured that this is an honest expression of the cultures from which it comes.

One of the things that attracted me to folk music is that I was a rebel to the "cool" and "hip" ideas of my classmates. It was truly different and thereby interesting. Like you, I approach it from the music first and the other stuff is window dressing.

Rejecting the commerical and mundane part of the music biz, pop stuff, is not really closing yourself off to anything. It's separating (to quote a popular cliche) the "wheat from the chaff".

Folk music will survive because it will always be open to those who want it.

Good for you for being so smart and selective and not going along with the "crowd". Please feel free to rant here anytime. I love it.


Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: Declan
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 07:09 PM

Frank,

In case you haven't noticed it is almost 6 years since the original post, which would mean that Ruthie would be about 19 now.

It would be interesting to know if her liking for folk music survived her teenage years.

Are you still out there Ruthie?

Subject: RE: The Folk Image
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 07:43 PM

Poor Frank! After all the thought and effort he put into that post ... (I think Ruthie's on tour with her gangsta-rap crew at the moment ... )