Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.

Subject: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 12:07 AM

As some of you might know who've checked into my "Pearly kings" and "Street Singers" threads, I've been interested in some alternative entertainment things lately. Thanks to Spaw, Peter, and Mrzy, for making me think about this one.

I'm one of those people who thinks the Marx Brothers were absolutely hilarious. Many of their routines were taken straight from their stage shows, and if you watch carefully you'll see that their timing is very odd by movie standards. They WAIT for the "non existant ('cause it's film) audience laugh. It's especially noticeable in the scenes Groucho plays with Margaret Dumont, and the ones between Harpo and Chico (who pronounced it "Chick-o" 'cause it came from his popularity with girls)

I was never huge on Laurel and Hardy although their artistry was obviously wonderful.

Have to admit that at times I laughed hilariously at the Three Stooges.....must be my repressed violent streak, and sometimes at Abbott and Costello (I AM a big baseball fan after all)

Thought Martin and Lewis were nuthin' but screamin' I'm afraid, but does anyone remember Burns and Schreiber? LOVED them.

Peter Cook and Dudley Moore definitely made me howl. If anyone ever heard their "derek and Clive" album I defy you to be neutral. That album was either the most filthy muck or sidesplitting non-sequiter brilliance. The segment on "how Big's yours"? and the man who's job was "removing lobsters from Jayne Mansfields a....." Oy vay! 'Course they were both drunk as skunks apparently when they did the album.

One duo I didn't get was Morcombe and Wise.

Possibly the most "intellectual" comedy duo was Wayne and Shuster. They did many longgg routines on Ed Sullivan that were brilliant send ups of Shakespearian plays. Anyone remember this bit of dialogue:

A Roman goes into a bar and asks the toga clad waitress, "I'd like a Martinus, please". She replies, "Do you mean a Martini"? He says "If I wanted two, I'd ask for two"!!

Hmmmmm, well maybe you had to be there.

Any thoughts?

Rick

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Dave Swan
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 12:48 AM

Jack Burns and Avery Schreiber. Now I'll have Huh?, Yeah, Huh?,Yeah stuck in my head for a week.

Of course the Marks Brothers. Every account I've read says that nothing they filmed approached the hilarity of the boys on stage. I wish I could have seen them. And Weber and Fields, and the Ritz Brothers.

D

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 03:31 AM

Rick, check out the cowboy vaudeville routine from 1929 by "Otto Gray's Oklahoma Cowboys" on the video,"Times Ain't Like They Used To Be: Early Rural And Popular American Music From Rare Original Film Masters (1928-35)." It's a comedic singing routine - a real slice of authentic vaudeville.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 03:32 AM

Good thread Rick, but your opener took almost all of my favorites, so I'll just throw in a comment or two here and as we go along.

I'm obviously a HUGE Marx Brothers fan and that "timing" you mention in the movies......Most of the routines were rehashed from Vaudeville bits they had cone for almost 20 years and for much of the new material they took it "on the road" before a live audience before filming the scene. This was mainly true during the period of the Thalberg movies ("Night at the Opera," "Day at the Races") but they did it to some degree on several other movies too. It not only gave them the general timing and "laugh" timing, but also they'd change small things and lines to see which got the biggest laugh.

Loved Burns and Schreiber! Know what I mean, know what I mean,huh?Huh?.............Allen and Rossi..."Hello Dere!"

Can't leave out Burns and Allen either.....Gracie Allen was truly genius......She could ad lib the stuff as well as do the rehearsed material. George Burns said on many occasions, all he had to do was say "Gracie, how's your cousin," and stand back. Old george deserves a lot of credit too though, because part of the visual laugh was from his sardonic reactions.

Burlesque was different in a lot of ways. Individual comics would band together for the run of a show doing old bits as well as their individual routines so tou saw "teams" come and go quickly. What was unique here was the ability of a comic to be a solid team player as well as a single. I think we saw a "window" into that history and style watching Morey Amsterdam on the Van Dyke show.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 04:15 AM

Hey, don't sell Laurel and Hardy short. Haven't you ever seen cuts from their "Spanish Language" Movies, Made for Mexican and South American Audiences. Furthermore, it was really them speaking Spanish, they were quite fluent. You haven't lived until you've seen and heard Oliver Hardy say, "This is a fine Kettle of Fish" or Stan Laurell saying, "That's a good idea, Ollie!", IN , EXCELLENTLY PRONOUNCED SPANISH. How about Rowan and Martin, who did a lot of Burns and Allen "shtick". and then there's "Moran and Mack", who you might or might not consider, "Racist". And "Uncle Dave Macon" and "Browny McGee"

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 10:54 AM

Remember Bob and Ray? For a while they had /a radio show in th e seventies. Hysterical skits: "Mary Backstage, Noble Wife" who bought a House OF Toast franchise but almost lost it when she started serving rye toast. Turns out the House Of Rye Toast franchise was down the street. To offer her customers variety, they could have their toast buttered on the near or the far side. No coffee either, just Prune Whip Shakes.Pregnant kitty walking on the keyboard. Expect typos from me for about another month.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 01:41 PM

Stooges fan, here. They were on the vaudeville circuit as sidemen to one Ted Healy (Healey?), who's act was mostly slapping the stooges around - often for real.

There's a T-shirt going around that says "Legalize Shemp."

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Bugsy
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 09:43 PM

Anyone remember Homple and Dink? The Tyrolian Comedy Duo of the 60's. Very funny indead!

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: NH Dave
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 10:12 PM

I thought Bob & Ray did some brilliant and daring presentations. One that comes to mind was 'Baa Baa Black Sheep", a sketch about a sheep that was being accused of being red or perhaps, Red would be more correct - during the McCarthy hearings, when entertainers were being blown out of the entertainment waters for being suspected of being Communist, or merely refusing to discuss the matter, cf Pete Seeger. Little touches like using "The March of the Gladiators", synonymous in the states with a circus, as a bridge or break.

Morcombe and Wise seemed great to me, although I was admittedly only recently exposed to the British comedy scene. Corny at times, but good.

Dave

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: thosp
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 11:27 PM

burns n allen were #1 with me -- gracie well what can i say -- i can't count the times she made me laugh till i cried! --- i also loved the marx bros. -- enjoy abbott n costello (just watched them today meet frankenstein) can we count w.c.fields & mae west? ---loved em together and seperately! --and yep i liked bob n ray on radio

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 01:42 AM

If all these comedy teams were so great (and they absolutely were), how come we don't have teams anymore? Today's so-called comedians do monologues, mostly along sexual lines. None of these teams ever did anything off-color. Okay, except the Marx Brothers.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: JenEllen
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 02:18 AM

Bobby Clark and Paul McCullough, and yeah, Gracie Allen holds a special place in my heart too.

It is interesting that the current comedic trends tends to be one of single comics doing the "dija ever notice..." routines. Probably for a lot of reasons. You have to have an able partner, someone quick on the uptake, and you have to be willing to let the other guy get the laugh. Teams always get the better laugh, because they can approach it from two ( or three-stooges, four-marx's) different angles. Some folks will appreciate the goof, and others will appreciate the straight-guy's take on the goof. You get the best of all possible laughs.

The tradition still lives, however, in the comedy 'schools' where a lot of these ideas and gags are used in group improv sessions. New comics are being 'forced' to think on their feet and play well with others. Wonderful stuff.

~Jen (who still believes in Insanity Claus)

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:38 AM

Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner. The 2000 Year Old Man routine, which contained alot of improvisation and so changed each time they did it, is such a classic bit of team comedy. That album also had some other great routines, with Reiner being the straightman interviewer to Brooks's many characters. Remember the Peruvian coffee grower who can't help revealing himself as a nazi during the course of the interview? Also the interviews in the coffeehouse and Brooks's parody of a coffeehouse folksinger, with his song, Twenty-Two Men: "Twenty-two men fell down and hurt their knee. Twenty-two men fell down and hurt their knee. Twenty-two men fell down. Down to the ground. Twenty-two men fell down and hurt their knee." Brooks's voice and awful guitar playing made that song a riot to listen to.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:41 AM

A little license with that last post, since Brooks and Reiner's comedy doesn't qualify as old-time vaudeville, but funny, funny stuff.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 12:26 PM

An observation: Most of the comedians mentioned so far in this thread have been American. (Some exceptions: Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, Morecambe and Wise.)

From conversations with my British in-laws, it seems that most American comedians (other than the ones who appeared in movies) are relatively unknown in Britain (and vice-versa). Although Brits have always had access to American movies, the TV variety shows through which stand-up comedians became popular in America (the Ed Sullivan show, the Tonight Show, etc.) were never shown in Britain. And American comedians who go on tour to Britain have had relatively little success. Apparently, a lot of humor still doesn't "translate."

I wouldn't be surprised if our British Mudcatters have never heard of Bob and Ray, Burns and Schreiber, Burns and Allen, or Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner (as a team). (Hey, I just learned that Wayne and Shuster were Canadian!) Maybe these links will help.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: RWilhelm
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 01:34 PM

Not a team, of course, but W.C. Fields did a great job of bringing vaudeville routines to the screen, especially in his early shorts. In the full length film "The Old Fashioned Way" he plays the leader of a third rate vaudeville troup and revives the first rate juggling act he actually did in vaudeville.

A good source of vaudeville information is The American Vaudeville Museum. Their magezine, "The Vaudeville Times" comes out four times a year and is well worth the price.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 01:43 PM

Martin & Lewis

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: thosp
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 02:06 PM

and how could i have forgotten Edgar Bergan & Charlie McCarthy (don't tell me they were not a team,i don't want to hear it!)

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 02:23 PM

Rick,

Wayne & Shuster??? I could never understand how anyone found them funny. The Marx Brothers on the other hand...

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 02:26 PM

Sid Caesar, Imogine Coca, and the other cast members from "Your Show of Shows."

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:21 PM

While mot a team what about Sophie Tucker not to mention Bette Midler doing some of her schtick Well known for her "Soph" jokes A bit more racy then most of the comedians.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 07:27 PM

I'm kind of surprised Jack Benny and any one member of his radio cast hasn't been mentioned: Mary Livingston, Dennis Day, "Rochester," Phil Harris.

I had always been a huge fan of Jack Benny. He appeared with the orchestra I was managing one time and I asked him why he always had tenors on his show {Dennis Day, Kenny Baker, and others). He said, "I didn't give a shit whether or not they were tenors. I wanted somebody who could do comedy."

Benny's manager, Irving Fine, who also managed George Burns, told me that Burns was one of the few people who could absolutely devistate Benny with laughter. Benny would to to any length to get Burns to laugh but couldn't succeed. One day during their vaudeville days they were playing a small theater in the midwest. Benny vowed to himself that he would pull such a fantastic trick on Burns that he was sure to laugh. Benny went to his hotel room and called Burns to come to his room quickly and enter without knocking because he had something to show him. Then he took off all his clothes, clutched a rose between his teeth, climbed up on the bed and was doing an imitation of Swan Lake when the maid, who Burns had sent to his room instead of coming himself, burst through Benny's door.

I read this same story in a autobiography of Benny so I suspect it really happened.

DougR

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 08:03 PM

Yeah, I'm a Jack Benny fan, too. Ever notice how, on Benny's show, it was usually the other guys (Don't forget Mel Blanc!) who said the punch lines while Benny acted as 'straight' man? This is very unusual for a famous comedian.

Several times I heard Benny on talk shows tell stories about how George Burns had played a prank on him. It was always Benny telling the hilarious story while giving Burns credit for the joke! There probably never has been a more egoless comedian.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:28 AM

Jack Benny is one of my all-time favorites, with Buster Keaton being my numero uno comedian. I didn't mention Benny or Keaton, although both were on the vaudevlle circuit, because I was zoned in on comedy duos/trios here. Another story he told of Burns's cracking him up is when they crossed paths in the studio lot, and Benny was in some ridiculous costume. It only took burns one word to leave Benny laughing to tears, as he walked by him: "Working?"

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:55 AM

Morris and Cowley - there's another one from the UK in the 50's.

What about Flanagan and Allan??? (two of my alltime favourites)

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:36 AM

Jimmy James "and company": "Who's Our Eli?" "He's Our Eli" "I'm Our Eli" "I'm nnnnot daft, you know". Solos: Robb Wilton (the master IMHO) and Norman Evans. (Is my age showing?). I also loved Jack Benny from the other side of the pond.
RtS "the day war broke out...."

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:38 AM

Well, I cna remember seeing Burns & Allen on UK tv in the fifties ("Say goodnight, Gracie." "Goodnight, Gracie!"--before it was on Old Joke!), and Jack Benny too. I still find them funny on the (very) rare occasions they appear over here. (When I say "appear, I don't mean ... oh, you know what I mean!) Tommy Cooper--he could walk on stage without saying a word, and people would fall about laughing; it even worked for me on tv. What about Ken Dodd? One of the few left of the Old School. Talking of the Old School reminds me of Will Hay, and Moffat & Marriot. Then there was the Crazy Gang: Flanagan & Allen, Nervo & Knox, "Monsewer" Eddie Gray ... who else? I can just remember them from their last days.

Steve

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Fortunato
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:04 AM

Thanks, Rick and all for this thread, it's good to know folks remember this kind of comedy with fondness, since my wife and I hope to bring it to audiences ourselves soon. I hope we haven't all become too 'modern' to laugh at old fashioned humor. Regards, Chance

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:55 AM

I always remember watching Eric and Ernie (Morecombe and Wise) making breakfast to the tune of the stripper
Patrish

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Fiolar
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:50 AM

Go back further guys - Try Wilson, Kepple and Betty. Their sand dance was hilarious. The Marx Brothers - great. Laurel and Hardy - never been bettered. "The Music Box" (not the butchered version) is probably one of the cinema's most enduring master-pieces. Abbott and Costello? I was never a great fan. Morecambe and Wise - great on TV. The Crazy Gang - one of the great music hall groups. How many more would never have come to the attention of millions without the benefit of the box. Max Wall, Jimmy James, Max Miller and hundreds more who have been lost in the mists of time.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: DougR
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 01:11 PM

As a single act, Benny Hill was hilarous, I thought.

DougR

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:32 PM

As an American who is curious about all aspects of British culture, I was eager to learn about the British comedians who have been listed here. Unfortunately, I was able to find only a few web pages devoted to them. Besides the ones in my message above, I have found these:

Benny Hill
Bobby Clark & Paul McCullough
Morecambe and Wise

By the way, is there a place in Britain where one can still see old-fashioned music-hall type comedy? If so, I will try to put in on my itinerary on my next visit (maybe next year).

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Fortunato
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 09:18 AM

I'd like to know that as well. Micca? Liz? Gervase, et al? Any ideas?

chance

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: LR Mole
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:08 AM

I found an old vinyl copy of "Beyond the Fringe" (Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, et.al.) at a library sell-off. Cook can make me have to stop the car, I laugh so hard. But comedy is so fragile, and difficult to translate, and SO vulnerable to even one person who "doesn't get it". I don't quite know why that is, but surely one of the most damaging thing a human can say to another is "You think that's funny?, or, worse, "That's not funny." Is our ego tied up in it, because we're more vulnerable when laughing? Probably.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:38 PM

Jim Dixon - Check this out

Of all the various US teams mentioned, I only found the Marx Brothers to be genuinely funny, and somewhat groundbreaking in their style and delivery. You can see that elements of their work went into the Goons, and then to Monty Python. So thanks Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo and Karl!

Les

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: RWilhelm
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 04:29 PM

and Gummo

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:04 PM

Les from Hull: Thanks for sending the link to Leeds City Varieties. It sounds interesting, but I was disappointed to see that the music hall season is only in April and October. Unfortunately, my visits are limited to July and August (and maybe part of June). My wife is a teacher, we have a son who is a student, and the relatives we will be visiting also have their free time limited by the school schedule.

Any more ideas, anyone?

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 07:11 PM

Absolutely, Mr Gallagher!

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 08:47 PM

Positively Mr. Sheen

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 10:53 PM

Homer & Jethro. Victor Borge and any soprano.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: DougR
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:22 AM

Oh yes, Seamus Kennedy, Victor Borge was the Master of all. What a wonderful performer he was.

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:50 AM

Don't forget McGratho, Dougo, and Hullo. :-)

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:59 AM

June Whitfield--now there's a woman who deserves a DBE, if ever there was one! (Has she got an OBE or something already?) Not a ground-breaking creative comedienne, but a real trouper of the Old School, supporting all the names from Jimmy Edwards & Dick Bentley to Roy Hudd, and still going as strong as ever. Women comics have never been properly recognised, and still aren't.

Steve

Subject: RE: Old time Comedy and Vaudeville Teams.
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:01 PM

Seeing that this thread is now including some singleacts I'd like to add a word for Fred Allen. Sharp, intelligent, somewhat ahead of his time I think. A true great. And the best verbal comedian ever from the UK, a Scotsman, the great Chic Murray.