BS: Attacks Begin, II

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 04:24 PM

There is debate and caution in Israel regarding the request for riot control gear. Many cite Israel's honoring the Oslo agreement and providing the Palestinian police with guns. These , although numbered and logged were and are being used against Israeli troops and civilians. Israel has not yet made a decision whether to comply with this latest request- and there are many here who think she should do so. We shall see. Jack The Lad- In Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:30 PM

I'm not convinced that Israel would be better off without Arafat. His successor might be a whole lot worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:28 PM

I'd like to see Israel respond positively to the request, myself. I think it would be a step forward.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:44 PM

It is sad news hurricane, I think the point of the article is that the PA has had to ask Israel for help. It opens the question of whether they will respond. But they obviously haven't yet. It looks like a bad situation. Civil disobedience, troops killing students. Pray for peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST, I, hurricane
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:35 PM

Just as news. I know most people are tracking events "as it happens," for the most part, and that such news items may be unnecessary. (Never mind that we're getting distilled and probably distorted news.) But that article struck me as rather important as it describes the current unrest on the West Bank and in the Gaza strip as the worst ever (other say the worst "in years.") Nothing could be more advantageous to Al Qeda than a firestorm in Israel. I would expect them to use their best efforts to draw an Israeli reaction. Arafat is in the hot seat, big time.

One could wonder whether Israel needs to be criticzed for failing to provide assistance, but (a) that would be preceived by the unrestful Palestinians as provocation and a "reaction; and (b) the sources weren't cited, anyway.

If anyone is getting good breaking news other than the standard AP; Reuters; BBC and CNN routes, it would be nice to know about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:26 PM

Sorry, I,Hurricane, I know you are making a point, but I'm not sure what it is. Are you posting that as a piece of news, or criticizing Israel because they have not provided what the Palestinians requested?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:30 PM

Good point there, SeanM.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST, I, hurricane
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:09 PM

"Israeli sources said the [Palestinian Authority] has asked the Jewish state for riot control systems. The sources said Israel has not responded to the request."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_7.html

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner at work)
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:28 AM

The Modern Samurai Mindset makes a Samurai. Service to society. Courage--the courage to take responsibility for ALL of your actions, for ALL of your statements. Living each day as if it might be your last--it very well might be. Awareness--being alert to your surroundings, relaxed but vigilant. The sensitivity to acknowledge the beauty, the sorrow, the humorous in the sights and events you encounter every day. The bravery to move, to act, to respond instantly in an emergency without hesitation, without worrying about the opinions of others, if you sincerely believe that this is what needs to be done. Striving constantly to improve, to better yourself so that you will make a positive difference in your little corner of the world. Knowing how to die with calm resolve because you die "defending the right and the good. Author unknown

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Troll
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:55 AM

click here

Here ya go,'Spaw.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:49 AM

Nah. But EVERY SINGLE NEWS STORY I've seen or heard about it starts off with "possible terrorist bioterrorism attack" and winds the hysteria engine up a notch or three, and then at the end mentions "despite hundreds of man hours on the case the FBI still has no links to establish this as a terrorist attack."

Gotta keep them war drums beating! Can't risk losing the general public back into their weekly WWF fix.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:55 PM

Any word on the Anthrax in Florida at the National Enquirer building? I think it was either Tom Cruise, Michelle Pfeiffer, or a passing Alien Starship.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST, I, hurricane
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:50 PM

Amos: Germans and Canadians are protecting the U.S. Coasts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28574-2001Oct8.html

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,CarolC Fan
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:20 PM

Intriguing!

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:20 PM

Damn straight, comrade Little Hawk.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:19 PM

Looks like you have another secret admirer, Carol. Another glorious victory for socialism! :-) "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." (heh! heh!)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:15 PM

Buy this year's calendar and be prepared to answer a question I pose about something in my picture. Then I'll tell you if I'm going to be in next year's calendar.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,CarolC fan
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:06 PM

I will if you'll be in it! (Honestly)

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:06 PM

That's her behind the accordion, isn't it?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:05 PM

*grin*

Maybe.

Did you support the Mudcat by buying this year's calendar?

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,CarolC Fan
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:00 PM

CarolC you're hot - will you be posing in the Nearly Nude Calendar? Please, please?

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 09:51 PM

Not the wrong thread! And Troll, I believe it started on Sunday!

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST, I, hurricane
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 07:59 PM

Canadians should be okay. I guess that was a C-5, which is smaller than a 747-200F. Could have fooled me though. It FELT a lot larger than that because of the noise, I guess.

We now return to your regularly scheduled music discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 07:07 PM

Hurricane:

I was safe on the other side of Point Loma, so I guess it got muted. We were a little nervous about two unmarked frigates or related that were bobbing along off the shore, but I think they were Candian.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:13 PM

Boy did I get surprised!! I thought this thread was about the attacks in the other side of the world - just goes to show that a farm kid never will figure it out.

Guest - you married? (just curious)

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST, I, hurricane
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:46 PM

Hey, Amos: did you just see/hear that four engine miltary behemoth drop into Lindbergh? wazzupp? (I nearly did a drop and cover. . . . (The engines had almost a ~musical~ whine to them (how's that?))

Amos? Amos???!

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:34 PM

Guest: you sure you know which thread you're posting to? Or maybe you were just trying to make it qualify as a music thread! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Troll
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:14 PM

Cool! When do we start?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:59 PM

We're gonna rock this town
Rock it inside out
We're gonna rock this town
Make'em scream and shout
Let's rock, rock, rock, man, rock
We're gonna rock till you pop
We're gonna rock till you drop
We're gonna rock this town
Rock this place apart

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:54 PM

Perhaps, Karl, we COULD be friends, comrades, whatever, if I knew who you were. The Karl Marx I do not admire is dead.

But then, maybe not.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:01 AM

Willie-O I seem to recall one of them being elected to the "National Assembly" (Quebec calls her provincial legislature that.) It's been a while I am vague on the details...

At the time I, and many other Canadians thought that they were treated way too leniently. But in retrospect, they were rehabilitated and further punishing them worse than common murderers would have sent the wrong message.

I am proud of Canada's tolerance as well as her respect for law and order. With all due respect to other countries, I believe that "Peace Order and Good Government" Is as good as a national motto can get.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Troll
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 08:47 AM

"That's a couple of times DougR has said that he and I could not be close friends.

That's because of your predjudice, not mine, comrade. "

GUEST Karl Marx

Maybe it's not predjudice. Maybe it's a matter of taste.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:02 AM

Doug,

twenty hours later my response may seem completely out of time, but anyway: You're right about the reason for the opinion split in Germany. 45 years of being told that the USA is the worst enemy (and that is not counting the Nazi time before) doesn't get lost in ten years. It'll take perhaps more than a generation.

The Roman limes had split 'Germany' for about 300 years. Though that was more than 1500 years ago, it still can be felt. The Germans on the Roman side of the limes are wine drinkers and not beer drinkers and they are more sociable and easy going. (I doubt many other German would agree with me on that)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,Karl Marx
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:59 AM

That's a couple of times DougR has said that he and I could not be close friends.

That's because of your predjudice, not mine, comrade.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:37 AM

Jack, that ain't real accurate. At all. First, we have lots of legislatures. Paul Rose, who may have actually murdered Pierre Laporte (he was in the cell that did it, but they have never revealed who the killer was), tried to get nominated to run as the NDP candidate in a Quebec riding a few years ago. I forget whether it was a federal or provincial seat. Anyway he may have got the nomination, temporarily, to the intense embarrassment of the larger NDP, but he certainly didn't win the seat.

A Quebec judge was recently forced to resign due to revelations that he had temporarily sheltered some fugitive FLQ members during the October Crisis of 1970. There are still consequences even for those who played minor roles.

Most of the FLQ members who provoked the October Crisis spent many years in Cuba, Algeria, and other fun spots, before returning home to face the music--and for most, relatively short prison terms. You see, we have this funny attitude that most people can mature and learn from their mistakes, and fifteen or twenty years of exile and punishment is enough of a deterrent. None of the now late-middle-aged former FLQ members have gone back to blowing up mailboxes or kidnapping diplomats.

What a ridiculous country is Canada! But never fear, soon we shall be "harmonized" with the United States. Soon as we build sixty new prisons.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:30 AM

AAAAAUGH! RUN, JACK! RUN! That just means the CANADIAN GOVERNMENT CONDONES TERRORISTS!

I'm sure the Pentagon is drawing up invasion plans right now. Guess that they're going to make SURE that the Stanley Cup stays in the Good Ol' US.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:13 AM

SeanM The last I heard of the Quebec terrorists, they'd got pardons and one of them was in the legislature. Ahh Canada, Peace Order and Good government!

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:12 AM

Hey GUEST, check it out. As of right now, five out of the top eight threads are about music.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:00 AM

Jack the Sailor, I though that might be the case also, but I figured it couldn't hurt to post the other information just in case.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 11:44 PM

CarolC, I took Bart's meaning to be that Official, Federal Government socialism started then. While I don't completely share his point of view, it was a very good point. It was certianly quite a quantum leap. I don't think any Subsequent government has gotten much right of there since then. After all even our resident capitalist proudly supports Social Security.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Troll
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:50 PM

Guest, please see my post on the Rush Limbaugh thread.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:49 PM

I bet if you wait a bit, GUEST, you'll find that the numbers have changed, and there will be more music threads in the top eight than BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:39 PM

Six of the current eight top threads are B.S.

And people wonder, "what has happened to the DT/MC

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Troll
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:32 PM

I think you maybe meant "Commie Lovers". Times change. My "commie lover" annd I will be married 20 years next May.
We DO NOT discuss politics.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 09:32 PM

Oops. Correction. The term "commie-haters" was not applied in the way I said in my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 09:24 PM

*blush*

Gee, Ivan, thanks. Thank your wife for me, too.

Bartholomew, just in case my use of the terms "pinko-commie" and "commie haters" has led you to think that I think Communism and Socialism are the same thing, I should probably make a clarification.

I don't know how old you are, so I don't know if you were around and aware of what was going on in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In case you weren't, those terms were being applied by right-wing types to anyone who disagreed with the government during that period in our (US) history.

I don't know if you saw the following information about the US Pledge of Allegiance on the other thread or not. I'm not familiar with the history of Socialism. But theoretically, at least, it predated the economic crash of 1929 by a few decades...

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

Click here for more.

In terms of my own political and economic ideologies, I think the categories into which I would fit haven't been created yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: SeanM
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 08:34 PM

On another tack, I just watched one of the functionaries of the department of Defense proclaim that our attacks would not end until ALL "terrorist networks and those who would support them" were destroyed.

Quick! Anyone living next to an Irish bar with 'republican' leanings, or anyone with a Clancy Brothers cd! RUN! You might be able to make it to Canada before the Air Force starts launching missles!

Wait - the Quebec separatists have been called 'terrorists'. Crap! There goes Montreal. Let me know when they shell Boston.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: DougR
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 07:46 PM

Geeze, Jack, what does it take to please you? I said I think you're right!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 06:27 PM

I am sorry DougR but you don't agree. You don't even read what I write.

Subject: RE: BS: Attacks Begin, II
From: GUEST,Newsboy
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 06:19 PM

CarolC, I love you - and my wife says it's OK.

Shame about DougR.

It seems we were in the same demos but different sides of the pond many years ago. Nice to think that we have kept our beliefs. Sometimes now it seems as if it's forbidden. Joy and peace Ivan