My pet musical peeve

Subject: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:15 PM

I would think we all have them. Mine is vocalists who feel they can improve on the United States national anthem by adding all kinds of grace notes and fancy frills to the tune.

You have any?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:26 PM

I have one major one, which I were I to post here, would more than likely offend a lot of people, so I'll just zip that.

The ones I can publish would be: playing in an ensemble or group situation where the instruments are out of tune with each other; singers with bad pitch (just a tad flat or sharp, enough to give me a sense of fingernails grinding on a blackboard); singers or instrumentalists who forward phrase everything, like "they can't wait to be on the road again"; drummers who can't keep time, and drag their ass and the rest of a band down with them -"while the world revolves around them"; inappropriate solos that don't work within the context of the song genre (i.e. doing an Eddie Van Halen or Hendrix type of solo, in the midst of a tender torch song or jazz standard). I'm sure I can think of more, but no doubt someone else, will post those thoughts for me.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:33 PM

A too wide vibrato grates a bit on me too. I've heard some volcalists wobble so long you could hard boil and egg between notes. You nailed on singers not singing on pitch too, Picker.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:34 PM

Middle aged men who are losing their hearing and refuse to get a hearing aid, and blame everyone else for the fact that their timing is out of step. (I say 'men' because women don't seem to be as reluctant to get hearing aids as men, in my experience.)

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:36 PM

Yes, for me a constant vocal vibrato is grating. It should be used very sparingly as an effect in subtle places. (i.m.h.o. only). I'll take someone like KD Lang any day of the week over say a Joan Baez, in terms of pure vocal style.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:39 PM

Ok, Carol. I'm just glad you didn't single out OLD men. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:50 PM

I don't know any old men, DougR. Middle age is a mighty flexible thing, don't you think?

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 02:58 PM

Bono and Sinatra singing together.
Blasphemy!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 03:01 PM

Singers who have to sing all fifty-two verses of every obscure piece they attempt WITH the chorus in between each.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Justa Picker
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 03:09 PM

Lest we not forget to include those who have committed their diary to song.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 03:09 PM

Amen to that, SINSULL! I had an instance of that happening recently. The big problem was that the incident was only moments after someone had sung ALL of "Omie Wise"!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From:
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 03:09 PM

imposing the blue book on people (it's fine if they want to use it for themselves and others want to use it too..) and changing the gender of the song as traditionally sung..

mg

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 03:36 PM

songwriters who seem incapable of shifting POV.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 04:30 PM

You hit the nail on the head with singers trying to improve songs by flexing grace note muscles (both genders do it). Sweet voiced singers thinking they can sing gut bucket blues. Imagine Joan Baez singing "Play that Funky Music White Boy" and you get the idea (no offense intended towards Joan Baez, I think she's a great performer).

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 04:42 PM

overplay, failure to back off and leave some space in the music.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Stewart
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 04:44 PM

Folksingers who after a vain attempt to tune their guitars, give up and say "it's good enough for folk music". A little effort to tune correctly makes a big difference.

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 05:03 PM

Peiple who can't keep time playing in sessions - they really make life diffucult for everone else and at worst can completely ruin a session.

Related to the above and often with the same effects are people who have no awareness of what is going on around them in sessions but who tend to just listen to themselves - sessions work best when everyone plays for the music.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 05:18 PM

people who play the "wrong" guitar chords for a song--when I'm trying to sing harmony.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 05:21 PM

Carol C: I'm in love.

dougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Gypsy
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:13 PM

Showboats who dominate a session, and who play every tune faster than a dog can hear. We are pretty rigid about everyone playing in our sessions, so are disappointed when that is not the case elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:22 PM

Doug, if you could meet her, you would be! If dynamite comes in small packages, this lady is a hydrogen bomb! I agree with all of you, especially Doug. It drives me up the wall when someone does that to the National anthem.

I can only add, people who insist on singing loud AND off key. It makes my nerves bleed.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:30 PM

*blush*

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:53 PM

I concur wholeheartedly with DougR's opening post. The Star Spangled Banner has been mangled too many times. (Although Hendrix's version at Woodstock was amazing)

Two other pet peeves are people at singarounds who insist on joining in on songs to which they know neither the words, chords nor timing, and singer-songwriters who write songs with unsingable choruses which they then try to get the audience to sing. Cringemaking.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:58 PM

I didn't mean to embarass you Carol. I only lie when I'm being paid for it, and there aint a dime in this!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Gary T
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 07:20 PM

Amen to the original peeve, overdecorating The Star Spangled Banner--and for that matter, any other song. Are Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, et. al. incapable of simply singing notes as written, sans embellishment?

Performers who tell the audience "This IS a singalong," as opposed to "You're welcome/encouraged to sing along."

Songs in a session done in variable time (slow down here, speed up there--not talking about songs with intended tempo shifts).

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 07:45 PM

All of the above--esp Star Spangled Banner. Also, fiddlers who play a tune A/B, A/B as opposed to AA/BB, AA/BB when the band is playing AA/BB........also, people who say--"I only play in D"......and then proceed to do so regardless of what key the band is playing in.......I used to have to play with a (fiddler?) who did both of the above at the same time. Always in D and A/B.......he died.

Also, players who must BANG their foot on the floor as opposed to just tapping quietly.........BANG, BANG, BANG in cowboy boots............I've been tempted to take a hammer and a nail...........

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 07:52 PM

I'll add to Jon's comments: someone who forces the timing into a solid beat, like a marching beat or waltz time when it is a lilting harmony.

Our session group plays a beautiful tune called Rosbif (look on Alan's midi page for it). There is one person who plays it on his boxy accordion-type instrument which seems to need very vigorous push-pull movements and this creates a very pushy rhythm which doesn't suit the tune at all. The rhythm of this tune is reminiscent of a mediaeval dance tune although it is written in 3/4. Unfortunately this man also suffers from only hearing himself in the sessions, and starting tunes when someone else has already started another one, and then he drowns out the rest with tunes which no one else knows.

Frustration plus!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 08:11 PM

Sorcha, about what you said here: "....I used to have to play with a (fiddler?) who did both of the above at the same time. Always in D and A/B.......he died."

Did he die or was he murdered?! *G* JK

Glenda

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 08:34 PM

How about those who play in one tempo and tap their foot in another?

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:01 PM

... and neither thier instrument or their foot is in the same tempo as everone else Kendall?

Another peeve of mine - total prejudice on my part I guess is I can not stand squeaky squalling operatic sopranos especially not when they try to sing folk music.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Benjamin
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:16 PM

Al Green sung the National Anthem at the NBA all star game in 2000. That was incredible. It's the only time I've heard the Star Spangled Banner at a sporting event and enjoyed it.

I would say people who try to invent new rythms in a song (never works). Solo's that are out of context and completely off the melody (though they can be cool in a rock and roll context). Whistlers who can't carry a tune, stay in any key, or keep any kind of rythm, it's the most hidious sound! I could also go on about things guitarists do that bug me, put I'm not sure I could remember all of them. Perhaps I'll try later

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:17 PM

since you asked:

people who stumble through songs they DO NOT KNOW by trying to read them from a book!

There are various levels of ability (mine is only average!), and everyone has to start somewhere and get some practice singing with and for others...and if they DO know the tune, but need a crutch for some words, I can see having a cheat sheet, but I cannot imagine why someone would attempt something that they can't even come close to with the book in front of them!

next on my list is the practice of praising and complementing those who can't sing because "they don't want to hurt feelings"...*sigh*....sorry folks, but there ARE ways to encourage nice people to try harder and help them learn-- it is NOT very useful to applaud them and let them think they did 'OK', when it was truly painful...

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: ddw
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:52 PM

I've heard other instrumentalists do it, but it seems blues harp players are worse than most at getting on a musical phrase and repeating it over and over and over and ..... Well, you get the idea.

James Cotton, whose work I really like, does it much more often than I'd like, so I just hit the NEXT button on the CD player.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:59 PM

Glenda 53, LOL! He did die of natural causes, but if he had lasted much longer, it might have been murder..........and about the singing out of a book--how about the people who Perform--with paper and a music stand? If you need paper and a music stand you don't KNOW the tune/song......and no way can you modulate to a different key.....How can you "perform" a song if you have to look at the paper???

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:08 PM

people who totally overlook the dynamics of a son ,and they just go wide open or don't move at all. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:14 PM

Yes, 53, like you said, folks who equate emotional expression with volume.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:19 PM

i've played in a country band for years and the only way for our bass player to play was full steam ahead. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Benjamin
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:20 PM

ddw, I have that petpeeve about electric blues players. I don't see how you can say somebody is gifted when they just play one lick 20 times (litteraly) then go on to the next.

Sorcha, I must disagree with your comments about reading off paper. Sure you might be able to play better from memory. But you don't always have that oppition (i.e. requests are not all too familiar with). It isn't hard to transpose keys when you have chord sheets either. I've done it quite a bit with different groups, gatherings, and ensembles I've played in. That's why we learn our keys really well!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:22 PM

Kendall: I don't doubt it for a minute! One think I know: you do not speak with forked tongue.

Gee, I hesitated to post this thread because I thought I was probably the only one who had a musical peeve.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Bert
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 11:50 PM

The hogs who jump in, out of turn in a session, stealing the turn of the next person who is moderately polite.

I stopped going to PFSS because every session degenerated into the same half dozen such hogs who vie with each other as who can be the most brash.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 12:21 AM

People who sing 57 verses of "Good Night Irene" at 4:15 AM, and when they run out of verses start singing "The Theme From Gilligan's Island" to the same tune..................LOL.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Chip2447
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 12:44 AM

ahem, guilty as charged, I'll just sit over here in the corner and try to behave....
Chip2447

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: SeanM
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 01:09 AM

Far and away for me... "Rehearsal? Ah, we can skip it. It's still two days 'till the show."

Barring that, The Whitney Houston Diesel Powered Vibrato annoys the living hell out of me. Yes, it's very pretty that you can hit two octaves very quickly. But could we PLEASE not hit them 300 times per beat? I swear... sometimes sounds like she's trying to yodel...

That, and flaking on gigs.

Poison. To the show, to the band, to the audience.

Unfortunately, not directly to the flake.

M

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 01:15 AM

Audience members who clap along to EVERY FRIGGIN' SONG, regardless of tempo.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:09 AM

Audiences (known in our house as the Noel Edmonds audience from his "House Party" show) who clap in 4/4 and speed up despite the song being in 3/4 and slowing down....

And people who think they can still sing when drunk. I know 2 people who do this, and they are both 'performers' rather than just floor singers - they try to make money out of it and still insist on drinking on stage... They get flatter and flatter and can't hear it... I cringe for everyone then!

Oh, and being in the same house when the piano is being tuned.... AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!! Torture.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Auxiris
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:36 AM

Session musicians who relentlessly play the same tunes every week to the point of threadbare and absolutely refuse to either learn a new tune once in a while OR let anyone else play one.

cheers,

Aux

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 03:26 AM

I'm 100% with John Freeman on the "trained operatic soprano would-be folk singers". And I've heard some mid-atlantic popstars murdering good traditional songs.And being a 'rhan player myself---those who take the "heartbeat of Irish music" so literally that they just have to keep on thumping to keep the tune "alive"; one of the cardinals of the drum is knowing when NOT to play!!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 04:16 AM

Just as well none of you will ever hear Me !
RtS ( a voice made for mime)

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:25 AM

Agree with Doug on original post, and will take it one step further: people who think they can improve on the simplicity of ANY melody by adding frills to it. One night Mister and I went to see Peter Rowan down at the Ryman, and it was a real fine show... except his fiddler played Ashokan Farewell with all manner of cuts and turns and other things that did nothing but clutter it up. I know a lot of you are dang tired of that tune, but the beauty of that melody is in its simplicity. And the Star Spangled Banner is hard enough to sing without muddying the waters.

Generally speaking, I think a little bit of embellishment is okay, because that's what keeps us from all sounding a alike. But too much is distasteful, at least I think so.

Also it bugs me when fiddlers think they have to play Orange Blossom Special at breakneck speed.

I used to sing with a girl who said "acapello." It was especially amusing because she thought she was The Shit because she had a cut on somebody's album and got royalty checks. I haven't seen her in years, and gosh, I have my own songs on my own recording now. (smug little grin)

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:29 AM

as someone posted earlier, sometimes to play less is better. BOB