Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...

Subject: RE:
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 01:45 PM

I don't think so. Amaranth (as it's more often called in English by those who don't want to say "pigweed") has spikes of tiny flowers that are usually reddish or greenish. The kind most commonly grown in gardens is called "love lies bleeding".

Subject: RE:
From: Jon W.
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 10:59 AM

Does amaranthus have any bright blue eye-like spots?

Subject: RE:
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 06:41 AM

Thanks to NEWFOUNDLANDER's jogging my memory with the violets line, I remembered the flower name which the old folks used in my neck of the woods when I was learning my music: "And the pale Amaranthus with violets of blue." Amaranthus (sometimes called Pigweed by less romantic folks) is a fairly common wildflower, but it is also a name given to a mythical flower which was supposed never to fade. Tennyson refers to it in one of his poems, I believe.

Subject: RE:
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 11:19 PM

The presumably original version is "I'll Twine 'mid the Ringlets", which dulcimer mentioned, and in the DT it starts like this:

I'll twine 'mid the ringlets of my raven black hair
Rhe lilies so pale and the roses so fair
The myrtle so bright with an emeral hue
And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue.

I left in the typos because they make we (I mean Me) wonder whether "aronatus" is a typo. But if it isn't, and you want to know what the lyricist meant, that's the word to research. I'm not saying for a minute that it's the word you should sing.

(Incidentally, one songbook I learned this from has "armita"--you sing "pale" on two notes--and another gives the fourth line as "Said I, knowing not that my love was untrue".)

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER ^^
From: NEWFOUNDLANDER
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 08:34 PM

Here's another version I just dug out of my songbook.

WILDWOOD FLOWER 107

I will twine and will mingle my waving black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair
The myrtle so green of an emerald hue
The pale emanita and violets of blue

Oh he promised to love me, he promised to love
To cherish me always all others above
I woke from my dream and my idol was clay
My passion for loving had vanished away

Oh he taught me to love him, he called me his flower
A blossom to cheer him through life's weary hour
But now he has gone and left him alone
The wild flowers to weep and the wild birds to moan

I'll dance and I'll sing and my life shall be gay
I'll charm every heart in the crowd I survey
Though my heart now is breaking, he shall never know
How his name makes me tremble, my pale cheeks to glow

I'll dance and I'll sing and my life shall be gay
I'll banish this weeping, drive troubles away
I'll live yet to see him, regret this dark hour
When he won and neglected his frail wildwood flower

^^

Subject: RE:
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 07:07 PM

I have seen words somewhere that made sense of it all, but now I have forgotten where I saw them. I have played with several professional bluegrass bands; each one had a version of this frequently-requested song, and each version was different from the others. I never had to worry about it, since I don't sing it--outta my range.

Subject: RE:
From:
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 06:32 PM

One of those two versions was probably what it was supposed to be, They both make sense and fit in with the rest of the song.

If I had one of those old fashioned reel-to-reel tape recorders, I would slow it down and listen to see if I really hear "mingles". The guy who wrote the jacket notes for my cassette seems to have heard it too.

Murray

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:57 PM

heard 'em all....always thought "I will twine and Ill mingle my waving black hair, with the roses...etc..." made more sense...

Subject: RE:
From: Jon W.
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:22 PM

I always thought it was "I will twine 'mid the ringlets of waving black hair..."

Subject: RE:
From:
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:20 AM

Nobody has ever figured out what "mingles" are either. In the Carter Family version they say "I will twine with my mingles....." My record jacket (Rounder's Complete Victor Recordings) says mispronunciations did get into songs and then people sang them by ear and perpertuated them.

Murray

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAN WHO PICKED THE WILDWOOD FLOWER
From: NEWFOUNDLANDER
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 10:06 AM

This is a version that my Late Uncle used to sing. I don't know where he got it from, but he used to sing it to the tune of The Wildwood Flower.

THE MAN WHO PICKED THE WILDWOOD FLOWER

I only saw five people when they buried Jack Dupree
Two diggers and a preacher the funeral man and me
The prayer was said and the hole was filled in less than half an hour
We said good-bye to the little man who picked the wildwood flower

For twenty years I’d seen him on the lower Nashville streets
They said he always earned enough to buy his cloths and eat
He'd stop awhile and check his watch with the big clock on the tower
That's when i asked him once if he could pick the wildwood flower

He always drew a crowd because he put on such a show
He'd dance and sing and play and smile just like a college pro
And every time he saw me standing in the crowd
I knew the tune that he'd play next would be the wildwood flower

I told him once that he could be what people called a star
And he said why boy I’m happy. None of them folks are
I'd hate to have to force a smile and feel myself turn sour
There ain't no put on in my face when i pick the wildwood flower

Then I saw a thousand people as they began to come
Businessmen, opera stars, party girls and bums
And on that little mound of clay bouqueted with endless showers
They paid respect to the little man who picked the wildwood flower
^^

Subject: RE:
From: dulcimer
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 07:29 PM

If you want to sing it as the Carter's did it in 1927,you'll use the lyrics Gene gave. Maybelle herself gives different lyrics in the 50's. So it probably doesn't matter what really are the lyrics or trying to find some "orginal" "first" lyrics. I would suggest that any version you find is just one that someone heard. The version the Carters did probably came from the palor song of 1859 I'll Twine Midst the Ringlets by J. Webster. Another possible source of the Carter tune was The Pale Amaryliis. They themselves couldn't give the exact meaning of the phrase. So if you are looking for the meaning emanita or aronatus, you may looking for some flower or whatever that someone only guessing at when he/she sung and wrote down.

Subject: RE:
From: leprechaun
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 03:33 PM

Amanita is a genus of mushroom, some of which are poisonous, some of which are deadly and some of which are considered hallucinogenic.

Subject: RE:
From: Bob Landry
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 06:33 PM

The first version I saw had the word "lyder", instead of "leader". The word doesn't appear in my Collins English Dictionary. Another mispronunciation, perhaps?

Subject: RE:
From: Gene
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 09:37 PM

Well, there was a version with those VERY LINES.

The pale and the leader and eyes looked like blue...

Probably because no one could figure out what the others meant....

Subject: RE:
From: Humdinger Folksinger
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 09:24 PM

You're doing better than I! For about 30 years, until just recently, I thought the line was "The pale and the leader and eyes looked so blue." I actually saw the "written words" in the "Rise-Up Singing Songbook"; I learned them "by ear." Good luck!

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:29 PM

this comes up regularly...if you know how to search the forum, you can read LONG discussions of it...(the newsgroup rec.music.folk also has had long threads on it..)..the short answer is that no one 'really' knows....(it probably originated with the pronunciation problems of the long-gone author)...botanists have signed on and discussed 'possible' flowers, etc...I guess you just find the version you like best and sing that!

Subject: What is the definition of the word emanita?
From: Paul R. Jay
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:21 PM

The song "Wildwood Flower" has a line in it that has the word emanita in it. I have also seen it with the word aronatus. Can anybody give me the definition of these words. I think they are some kind of flower. "The myrtle so bright with an emerald hue And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue."