Politically incorrect national anthems

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:15 AM

"... how the Canadian men's hockey team might have felt singing Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman" before each game. " Sounds a great idea. I wouldn't envy anyone facing against a team of men who had had the balls to sing that in public. Think "A Boy named Sue".

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:17 AM

More nitpicking:
Teribus - clearly you have a different definition of mealy-mouthed from me, if you see it as having something to do with making too much sense. Mealy-mouthed means being reluctant to say what you are thinking. Greg Stephens anthem is a splendid summary of not being mealy mouthed, and the Romanian one is essentially the same, but in more flowery language. With a great tune - and tunes are what matters in an anthem, the words just float along on the top.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:19 AM

And a third slice (that's how the net is working today, it seems)

1812 - I hedged on this, since I don't know much about it. "...that is at least how the war of 1812 was interpreted in the USA". The point, whatever it was about and however it started, it was a big imperial power on one side and a relatively weak country on the other. And at that time the relatively weak country was the USA and the big imperial power was not.

An Italian thinking the Soldier's Song, especially in it's abbreviated match version, was too long? Ever heard the Italian version - which is splendid, but hardly brief. (Here it is

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:19 AM

My gosh, some of these lyrics are lame! I think I'm gonna be an advocate for STRICTLY INSTRUMENTAL National Anthems. Write new inspirational catchy tunes, and just have the Populace HUM along proudly. Any country that doesn't have a tune inspirational enough to send it's kids off to the Army recruitment office can hire Andrew Lloyd Webber or someone to do the notes.

I LOVE the one that goes...Hmmmmmmm, hmm, hmm, hmmmmmmmmummmm.

Rick

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:03 PM

Metchosin - Having everyone sing "I Am Woman" at the beginning of every football/hockey/whatever game is a wonderful idea! I'm for it 100%! It would be downright hilarious, and besides, I never attend such games nor do I watch them, but I would tune in just to hear the song and then go and do something (almost anything) else more interesting. Well, I'd tune in once or twice anyway, till the novelty wore off... :-)

God, I can just see the look on Don Cherry's face...LOL!

Here's my updated version of "O Canada":

O Canada
Our home and native soil
Regional hate is rising to the boil
The French are outlawing English now
And the English hate Quebec
The politicians are heartless frauds
They took away my welfare cheque
(*DUM...DUM...DUM...) O Canada
Give me a break
Mike Harris says the poor should "eat some cake"
I say let's drown the bastard
INNNN...MEEEEEECCHHH...LAKE!!!

- LH

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:57 PM

Little Hawk, I like that one....ain't that the truth.*BG*. I'm not going to get my shirt in a knot over this one, in the grand scheme of things, changing one word is a pretty minor thing to do and its not as if the precedence for changes of it, has not already been set.

But what really surprises me is the vehemence of some who want it left alone. Sort of reminds me of my father, when I was small, when he wouldn't allow my brother and I to sing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" because everyone knows that Santa only has eight reindeer. But then again, our Dad was a pretty twisted individual.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

A strictly instrumental anthem? The GDR's National Anthem came very close to that. In the last twenty years of the GDR's existence it was never sung, only played and the lyrics were more or less out of print and a person who dared to cite/sing them could be fined. They were completely un-PC from the government's point of view:

Resurrected from ruins
looking towards the future
let us serve you to a good end
Germany, common fatherland.

I guess you can spot the un-PC line.

By the way, Russia actually had an anthem without lyrics from 1991 to 2000. It was so unpopular it had to be changed.

A trivia question on anthems: Which English speaking country and which German speaking country use the same tune for their respective national anthems?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:16 PM

Same tune: the UK, Switzerland, and a quite a few more.Including the USA, if you count My Country Tis of You. I can't understand it - it's not a great tune.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:28 PM

Wrong. Swiss anthem for comparison.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Gareth
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 02:07 PM

Tam - Thanks, it will do very nicely at the Arms Park, or Pubs around !

Gareth

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 02:31 PM

I suppose it depends on what counts as a National Anthem, Wolfgang. I've got a book of National Anthems here which gves the one you did, but also as an alternative "Rufst du, mein Vaterland/O monts independants" which has the God Save the Queen tune, and it is described as "A popular national song, used on many occasions." Maybe you're referring to Liechtenstein, which uses the same tune.

I wonder what happens when two countries with the same national anthem tune have a football match.

The German national anthem tune is used as a hymn tune in England. I think this has caused some confusion on occasions.

Subject: Lyr Add: O CANADA
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:13 PM

From the Full History of O Canada at this site here are some of the versions of O Canada that have appeared in English since it was first penned in French by Calixa Lavallée in 1880:

"English Canada in general probably first heard "O Canada" when school children sang it when the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall (later King George V and Queen Mary) toured Canada in 1901. Five years later Whaley and Royce in Toronto published the music with the French text and a translation into English made by Dr. Thomas Bedford Richardson, a Toronto doctor. The Mendelssohn Choir used the Richardson lyrics in one of their performances about this time and Judge Routhier and the French press complimented the author.

Richardson version:

O Canada! Our fathers' land of old
Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold.
Beneath the shade of the Holy Cross
Thy children own their birth
No stains thy glorious annals gloss
Since valour shield thy hearth.
Almighty God! On thee we call
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall,
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall.

In 1908 Collier's Weekly inaugurated its Canadian edition with a competition for an English text to Lavallée's music. It was won by Mercy E. Powell McCulloch, but her version did not take.

McCulloch version :

O Canada! in praise of thee we sing;
From echoing hills our anthems proudly ring.
With fertile plains and mountains grand
With lakes and rivers clear,
Eternal beauty, thos dost stand
Throughout the changing year.
Lord God of Hosts! We now implore Bless our dear land this day and evermore,
Bless our dear land this day and evermore.

Since then many English versions have been written for "O Canada". Poet Wilfred Campbell wrote one. So did Augustus Bridle, Toronto critic. Some were written for the 1908 tercentenary of Quebec City. One version became popular in British Columbia...

Buchan version:

O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From Pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore.

However the version that gained the widest currency was made in 1908 by Robert Stanley Weir, a lawyer and at the time Recorder of the City of Montréal. This is the version which was published in an official form for the Diamond Jubilee of Confederation in 1927, and has since been generally accepted in English speaking Canada. "

Weir version:

Oh Canada from "After Ypres and Other Verse" by Robert Stanley Weir (The Musson Book Company, Ltd., Toronto, 1917)):

O Canada! Our Home and Native Land!
True patriot-love in all thy sons command;
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free,
And stand on guard, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard for thee!

O Canada! Where pines and maples grow,
Great prairies spread and lordly rivers flow,
How dear to us thy broad domain,
From East to Western Sea;
Thou land of hope for all who toil!
Thou True North, strong and free!
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard for thee!

O Canada! Beneath thy shining skies
May stalwart sons and gentle maidens rise,
To keep thee steadfast through the years,
From East to Western Sea.
Our Fatherland, our Motherland!
Our True North, strong and free!
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard for thee!

Ruler Supreme, Who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our dominion in Thy loving care.
Help us to find, O God, in Thee,
A lasting, rich reward,
As waiting for the Better Day
We ever stand on guard.
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard for thee!

So much for unbending, unchanging tradition.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:16 PM

I submit this song, from the musical Ragtime as a good general anthem (yes, it places more emphesis on "brothers" and "men", but in the story, it is being sung my a man to an audience of men):

Go out and tell our story.
Let it echo far and wide.
Make them hear you,
Make them hear you.

How justice was our battle
And how justice was denied.
Make them hear you,
Make them hear you.

And say to those who blame us
For the way we chose to fight
That sometimes there are battles
That are more than black or white...
(that should quiet those who complain about up-pc history ;-))
And I could not put down my sword
When justice was my right.
Make them hear you.
Go out and tell our story
To your daughters and your sons.
Make them hear you,
Make them hear you.

And tell them, in our struggle,
We were no the only ones.
Make them hear you,
Make them hear you.

Your sword can be a sermon
Or the power of the pen.
Teach every child to raise his voice
(I particulary like these lines)
And then, my brothers, then
Will justice be demanded
By ten million righteous men.
Make them hear you.
When they hear you,
I'll be near you
Again.

Okay, so maybe we can't adopt that exact song as an anthem (copyright issues and all), but I think it captures the feelings you want to express in an anthem (a good one, anyway): Pride in your history, and a reminder to keep working toward an even better future.

I agree with McGrath: I think the Suffragette anthem does all of that wonderfully. But with today's political climate, and the general nervousness about theocracies, the line:

". . . thunder of freedom -- the voice of the Lord!" might be considered un-pc by the nitpickers.

But that could easily be changed to: the voice of us all!, even if it doesn't rhyme...

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:53 PM

Whale oil beef... I did not know "Oh Canada" was sexist. Just never occured to me, I guess. I always thought "thy Son's command" was a reference to JC himself, which would, of course, by today's PC standards, be even worse.

As far as the comments that the US anthem isn't "pretty", I think just the opposite. I think it's the most "singable" and emotional of any I have heard. I kinda like it, especially when done solo, no instrumental, by someone who can sing it.

But, the most shocking thing I have read in this thread is the assertion that there were only eight tiny reindeer. There were, as everyone SHOULD know, ten !!!!

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM

right gnu...seems to me I should remember this old joke, but I'll bite...who were the other two?

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:15 PM

Well, you mentioned Rudy the Red. The other was Olive.

BTW, how's the old dog doin ? Still in the prime ?

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:46 PM

argh...of course! the one that used to laugh and call him names.

Maddy is right as rain again, thanks gnu, unfortunately old Wort's kidneys are starting to fail, but he's still hanging in there.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:46 PM

It is true that "The Star-Spangled Banner" contains the phrase "conquer we must", which sounds aggressive in isolation; but in the context where it occurs ("O, thus, be it e'er when free men shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation. Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n-rescued land Praise the Power" etc.), I think one may charitably take "conquer" to mean merely "be victorious"

The trouble with the tune is not, IMO, that people try to fancy it up; it is that the bare tune has a range of an octave & a fifth. Possibly even a majority of people can manage that if they are allowed their own key; but for a crowd to sing it together is out of the question. In the days of barbershop quartets & Christmas carols, enough people might have known the parts to make a fair show of it, but not any more.

When De Gaulle announced that he was pulling the French out of Algeria, he avoided whatever response his audience might have had in mind my leading them in the Marseillaise. Fancy Nixon trying that on us! We'd still be in Vietnam.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 08:52 PM

In the days of Christmas Carols? Still plenty of those around where I live anyway.

Nixon wasn't De Gaulle. If the French had the Star Spangled Banner, they'd wouldn't be frightened of singing it. (The English would - they are even more hung up about not making fools of themselves than the Americans, which is what it's really all about.)

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: campion
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:49 PM

Peader Kearney, who penned the Irish National Anthem, was uncle to Brendan Behan. Circa 1955, the Irish American playwright JP Donleavy had his play, The Ginger Man, closed down in Dublin due to pressure from the archbishop and government leaders, as it "suggested" that the protagonist "had it away" with a woman not his wife. The leading role was played by the young Richard Harris- it was his first big role. Shaken by the play being shut down, the angry and somewhat pair of Harris and Donleavt made their way to the Bailey where they were comforted by Behan, Patrick Kavanaugh, and a host of other Irish literary luminaries, none of whom, Donleavy related, had even bothered to see the play. Behan remarked that the closing down of the Ginger Man was "the saddest night in Irish history," and that although his uncle [Peader Kearney] had written the national anthem, "we'd have been better served if he had written 'We Ain't Got No Bananas.'"

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:13 AM

Pooka:

Sorry this is late, but I had clients to care for. However, I propose the following to "sanitize" your "Soldier's Song":

The Child's Song

We'll sing a song, a children's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our parents' hearths we throng,
A safe roof warm o'er us;
Impatient for our coming lives,
Awaiting what the mornings give,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a children's song.

Chorus:
Children are we whose lives will flower in Ireland;
Dreaming to free  the green land of our homes.
Yearning to be whole,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall run with blood, or dream on broken bones.
Tonight we walk into a future
In Erin's hope, come woe or smiles
And stepping into newer, kindlier miles,
We'll chant a children's song

In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers lovingly taught us,
And conquered hatred in a hope for times
We'd bring the lives they bought us.
We're children of an ancient loving race,
That knows that bringing joy brings no disgrace,
And as we grow, tomorrow's hopes to face,
We'll chant a children's song

Chorus

Sons of the Gael! Daughters of the Pale!
The long watched day now dawns;
The risingranks of future life
Shall move our music on.
Our heart's fires now are warming high;
See in the east a silv'ry light,
Out yonder wait brave futures bright,
So chant a children'ssong.

Chorus

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: CapriUni
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:21 AM

:::Claps wildly:::

That's beautiful, Amos!

I can't really see a group of 50-something guys with beer bellies and various amounts of stubble on their chin singing this song with much gusto.

... Though, if they did, the world would be a better place

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:35 AM

Capri:

I'm honored; thanks!

A

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,ciarili
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 02:14 AM

Well now, where to start...kinda felt like a good rebuttal was in order toward the Knucklehead bashing all the non-Dems/Thought-Police of America....

I like God Bless America, but that would never get past the Democrats, who at this point are but thinly veiled Socialists, something they share with the Nazi party. (After all, who's responsible for all the PC crap in the first place?) That little bit about God couldn't possibly fly, because it sounds Christian, which equals evil to a PC-conscious leftist. Never mind the special considerations given to every other religious group on the planet, or that you can think of God as whatever you conceive him to be. A rose by any other name....

"Teach your children well" is primary in the thoughts of non-Democrat-Socialists, actually. That means taking education (never meant to be in the purvue of the Federal Government in the first place - duh) out of the hands of the Federal Government because it has failed miserably! Remember that little thing about "provide for the common defense?" Nothing in there about education, federal welfare, abortion, etc., etc.. So, I'm not sure whose political sentiments above are misguided, but it ain't us regular folks who have decided that everybody has to think like we do or they're evil commie bastards!

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 02:59 AM

Correction, the original lyrics of O Canada were composed by Sir Adolphe-BasileRouthier. I don't know if they have ever been revised, but they bear no resemblance whatsoever to the English version.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:23 AM

Amos accredited another author to "Teach Your Children". Was it not actually Graham Nash, a native of the great American city of Manchester? I like the song, but it only really sounds good when sung in three part harmony. For that you need three or more people who can simultaneously hold different lines of melody. It is not always possible to find a group of folk who can simultaneously hold one. And Rick, believe me, if Andrew Lloyd Webber ever pens the national anthem of my country, high treason shall become my hobby, my passion and religious persuasion...

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:28 AM

Just an afterthought for Rick and Little Hawk. Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber made a promise that he would emigrate if Labour ever won an election. It is about time this promise was made good. Is there any prospect of you guys putting in a word at your Immigration Office?

Subject: Lyr Add: CONVICT STREAK
From: John Gray
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 07:06 AM

Okay, so rather than just not liking Advance Australia Fair, let's be really politically incorrect.
Dave Warner from his album in the late 70's, Dave Warner's From The Suburbs - Mug's Game.

Convict Streak.

Maybe its because of our convict streak
We want to fight everyone we meet
Anzac Day is our day of the year
We march our march, we drink our beer
We don't like Slopes, we don't like Yanks
I'd personally like to blow up every Commie tank
We're only few but wee fought in'nam
Packed our guns alongside Uncle Sam

Ask any of us, it were no sin
The only crime was that we didn't win and
The Poms are weak as piss, the French are queer
The Germans are wankers but they make good beer
Don't criticize what you don't understand
If you think I'm talkin' shit you don't belong in this land

I'm an Australian, we all are
We watch the tele and we drive our car
But don't you ever say we're weak
Or you'll learn all about our Convict Streak
The world began with Adam and Eve
But Australia started at Gallipoli
Our fathers put the desert into desert rats
Their uncles slipped the boots in up in Landers Flats
Don't criticize what you don't understand
It's not that we're behind the times
We're a different land

We might be slobs but we're not weak
maybe its because of our convict streak
The Poms are weak as piss, the French are queer
The Germans are wankers but they make good beer
Don't criticize what you don't understand
If you think I'm talkin' shit you don't belong in this land

I'm Australian, so are you
It doesn't matter if you're Ding or Jew
But just remember while you're here
You march our march you drink our beer.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: John Gray
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 07:12 AM

Aaaaarrrrggghhh still can't get the double spacing and "Packed our guns----- is supposed to be a line of its own.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:16 AM

Loved it. No competition,is there?

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:24 AM

Yes, Lichtenstein it is and I meant the National anthem (like which is played in the case of a gold medal at the Olympics) and not just a popular hymn.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM

That's a neat bit of rewriting Amos, and very singable too. But I think if I'd sooner keep the lines there of the original and imagine I was off on a camping adventure. Especially if I was a child.

I think I'd feel it was a bit too cosy with the nice warm fire on the hearth and the roof over me instead of the blazing campfire and the starry heavens.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM

But essentially I think National Anthems should resist change, and represent a kind oif crystallization of some crucial moment in the history of the nation. That's why I like the Polish one, wioth it "March! March, Dabrowski!" and reference to Napoleon - and it's stately tune.

That's why I think Americans should value their one. (And thta's another reason why God Save the Queen is more dispensable than most, because the historic moment it is associated in it's origin is the putting down of the Forty-Five.)

But I love the way that National Anthems page I keep linking to in this thread has as it's slogan "Make Love, not war!", along with all the falgs and anthems of the world. That's the spirit! Here is the Iraqi one.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:02 PM

I meant keep those lines in that first verse, Amos, so it would read:

We'll sing a song, a children's song, With cheering rousing chorus, As round our blazing fires we throng, The starry heavens o'er us; Impatient for our coming lives, Awaiting what the mornings give, Here in the silence of the night, We'll chant a children's song.

Though I'd see it as a version for children to sing, at least at first. If they grew up with it and took it to their hearts, that would be the way it would have a right to become a national anthem.

The thing about the Soldiers Song is that it wasn't imposed on people by any government committee - it came up from below, and only got printed years after it caught on among prisoners of war in the campsSee this recent thread about it.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: allie kiwi
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

Regarding A Soldiers Song... can some tell me when the words changed a little? I'm from an ex-pat Irish family and we always sing "Tonight we man the bhearna baoghail" not "Tonight we man the gap of danger"

Allie

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:06 PM

Re Soldier's Song - Amos - belatedly, thanks! Very very good. I agree with the sentiments of course.

McGrath of H. also, thanks for (as always) good info.

allie kiwi - yeah I also learned it with "bhearna baoghail"--the one bit of Irish surviving into the English tranlation, I guess; presumably for the rhyme with "woe or weal". I had copied/pasted lyrics from somewhere or other; I presume "gap of danger" (which I *had* seen before, too) is a translation thereof.

I've sometimes thought that in the unlikely event Ireland were to change her anthem again (I believe it used to be "God Save Ireland"), maybe "Come By The Hills" would be nice. / OK, a bit wimpy --- but nice.

allie kiwi (admittedly I'm guessing here, from your name) -- but this one's pretty good, IMO (as with The Soldier's Song, I'm pasting only the English version):

God of nations at thy feet-
In the bonds of love we meet-
Hear our voices we entreat-
God defend our free land.-
Guard Pacific's triple star-
From the shafts of strife and war-
Make her praises heard afar-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Men of ev'ry creed and race-
Gather here before thy face-
Asking Thee to bless this place-
God defend our free land.-
From dissension, envy, hate-
And corruption guard our state-
Make our country good and great-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Peace not war shall be our boast-
But should foe assail our coast-
Make us then a mighty host-
God defend our free land.-
Lord of battles in they might-
Put our enemies to flight-
Let our cause be just and right-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Let our hope for Thee increase-
May Thy blessing never cease-
Give us plenty, give us peace-
God defend our free land.-
From dishonour and from shame-
Guard our country's spotless name-
Crown her with immortal fame-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
May our mountains ever be-
Freedom's ramparts on the sea-
Make us faithful unto Thee-
God defend our free land.-
Guide her in the nations van-
Preaching love and truth to man-
Working out thy glorious plan-
God defend New Zealand.-

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: allie kiwi
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:18 PM

Thanks, Pooka, you guessed correct *grin*. As I pointed out to someone else - it's either that or I'm obsessed with green hairy fruit!

One of my favourite anthems would be the Star Spangled Banner, never had any trouble singing it myself, but I guess it depends what key it is in. I didn't realise I knew so many anthems until I came to this thread!

I've always like God Defend New Zealand - all the versus, since they seem to fit out 'peace, not war' nuclear free status etc. Unfortunately we never seem to sing more than the first couple, since we also have to sing it in Maori. If it gets sung too slowly it can sound awfully dirge-like as well.

And for any lurking Aussies - please see no mention of sheep therein! *childishly pokes out tongue*

Allie
going off singing 'And the band played waltzing matilda...'

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:40 PM

Mcgrath:

You hold, as usual, the senior perspective and I agree with your revisions to my alteration of the crustalization of chaos that orignally produced the effing song!! :>) Thanks for the kind remarks.

If I weren't in the deepest, bluest cups tonight, I'd undertake to incorporate yer changes. As it is, why, we're lucky this post is even spelled half-right. (I believe it is, at least, half.) I canbarely reub three chords together undeer the circumstances...

Men will say what women say; And pay what women say they'll pay; And thinking this, all I would say, Is, "Thank the Lord for Beaujolais!"

In any case the bright point of it all is that war is very difficult to prosecure while thinking of children, what they need, and what they mean to the well being of the species.

By all means, please add your version to your wonderful collection and send me a file of it. in your own inimitable style!!

Warmest regards,

A

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:45 PM

allie kiwi - *BG* - Green hairy fruit, indeed! Lurking Aussies, to be SURE! / I thought of pasting in the Maori, but my posts are too lengthy as it is; & I had left out the gaelic of The Soldier's Song...but being a weary old man all tired sick & sore, I really must get to bed soon; Irish-American bloke needs his beauty sheep y'know :)

[Up jumped the Pooka & jumped into the billabong...]

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 09:59 AM

I do have to correct an error here. During the war of 1812, The British attacked Fort McHenry in Maryland That is what Francis SCott Key was writing about Not Fort Henry in Canada. Was there expansion involved? Certainly, on both sides. the British were not entirely blameless. There was after all the small matter of the impressment of American seamen, inciting the native Americans to border forays against the Americans to mention a few. In actual fact, the government tended to be pro British as the French revolutionaries and later Napoleon were seen as threats to the nation. As to The U.S. being imperialistic the army numbered possibly five thousand men and the navy consisted of relics from the revolution and Jefferson's embargo barges. Not the stuff imperialism is made of. Kindest regards. Neil

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:01 PM

Thanks, everyone, for making this a wonderful thread. I've been enjoying every word! Write on!!!

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:07 PM

I doubt very much if anyone in Ireland anyway has ever sung it with "gap of danger" - that's what "bearna baoghail" means. But even though to the best of my knowledge Peadar Kearney, being a Dublin man, wrote the song in English in the first place, these words have always been in Irish.

"Gap of danger" doesn't rhyme and it doesn't scan, and God knows who is responsible for putting it in the versions on some websites. I imagine someone wrote it in as a translator's note in brackets in the line, and some other eejit took out the Irish words. But I can't believe in anyone actually singing it that way.

And when you think of it, "gap of danger" needs almost as much explanation what kit means as "bearna baoghail" does. (I checked on a search engine to find where the phrase crops up except in bastardised versions of the Soldier's Song, and this was one of the few examples. Which doesn't clarify matters much, but it's an interesting page.)

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:24 PM

McGrath - agreed.

I've seen the Gap of Dunloe; but never sung the Gap of Danger. Of course this Yank dunno the Irish; but I love it from afar. So to speak. Or not speak.

But Yes that sure is an interesting page, and site. Thanks!! (btw I note therein that one of the Warlords of Ulster was none other than our friend, Amergin the Poet. :)

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 05:24 AM

Neil,

It was the US armed forces that invaded Canada, not the other way round (wasn't it a Senator from Kentucky who claimed that one battalion of Kentucky militia could conquer the whole of lower Canada alone?). As for the impressment of American seamen, yes it happened, but then there was always the definition of who was an American? The British principle was that if you were born British, you were British (and as a sailor liable to be pressed, unless you had a "certificate of protection") the Americans seemed to believe that if you could get to any American territory (or ship) and say you were American, that was good enough (hence the number of RN deserters serving on American ships (civil and military - it was the only trade many of them knew). As for the British being on US soil, yes, it was a counter attack, there was as far as I have read it, no plan of conquest in London (everyone was a little tied up with this Corsican chappie causing trouble at the time), that's not to say that London wouldhave turned it's nose up at extending Canada, but it wasn't part of the plan. Oh, and burning chunks of Washinton was revenge for the Americans burning bits of York/Toronto. As for SSB, personally, I think it works better as a poem than a song,but it's not my anthem, so I don't have a say.

Regards

Tom

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,Roger O'Keeffe
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM

I have always assumed that the "bearna baoil" referred to the dodgy moment in a siege where fortifications have been breached, and the area gets a bit uncomfortable for anyone who occupies it as fire will be concentrated on them and their survival chances would not be a.

And speaking about Andrew Lloyd Webber, Ireland is already sliding that direction with the consciously PC "Ireland's call" which is sung as a pseudo-anthem at rugby matches as a gesture towards the sensibilities of the Northern Ireland members of the team who mainly come from the Unionist tradition. The sentiment is laudable, but the music is dire, even featuring a very Eurovision key shift.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:55 PM

Transmissio praecox. I was editing to add:

" their survival chances would not be a good insurance risk."

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:06 PM

Very likely Roger's right there. Here is an extract from a website about the Soldier's Song:

"The phrase Bhearna Bhoil, in the Irish language, means the Gap of Danger, and refers to a battle in the rising of 1798, when John Kelly, the Boy from Killan, led a charge against the Bewley Gates in the seige of New Ross. The carnage at that location earned it the title Bhearna Bhaoil, and it became a symbol of the danger that Ireland's sons were willing to face for her freedom. Even when the Soldier's Song is translated into other languages, the term Bhearna Baoil remains in the Irish."

Though, as the extract from the Ulster cycle indicates, it appears to be a phrase that has a much longer history in the Irish than just 1798. I suspect the word "gap" might perhaps have some other more general significance.

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: toadfrog
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 01:59 AM

I personally like the Star Spangled Banner. But if we were to choose an anthem all over again, I'd vote for "A Train." That's about as American as a song can get.

Or how's this?

Sons of the Fatherland, arise!
Bring happiness to our beautious shores!
God blesses our noble fight,
Our cringeing enemy to smite!
No more shall they spit on our glorious soil!

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 11:05 AM

Well, this thread has hit the magic 100-post mark, so it's time to go to Part 2 of this discussion, on this thread: Politically incorrect national anthems 2 (click here)

I've already copied-and-pasted a comment on that thread, made the other day by a GUEST who couldn't find this thread. So please go to the "Politically incorrect national anthems 2" thread to read the comment and to post any further comments on this subject. Thanks!

Sharon

Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:28 AM

God save Queen is a anti Scottish song, then the English wonder why it gets booed every time it is played here in Scotland